While you all are re-fighting WW2 (an annual tradition on DU), Fukushima is ignored

[Generic Other]

(Reuters) - The Japanese government is joining efforts to contain a buildup of radioactive water at the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant, as operator Tokyo Electric Power Co struggles to contain the problem, government officials said on Wednesday.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga said the buildup of radioactive water at the plant was a very serious issue and that Prime Minister Shinzo Abe would order the Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry, which regulates Tepco and other power utilities, to significantly step up its role.

The ministry is considering requesting public funds for the cleanup, Suga told reporters. The Nikkei newspaper said the funds could be used to freeze the soil to prevent groundwater from leaking into the reactor buildings - a project with an estimated cost of up to 40 billion yen ($410 million).

An official from the country's nuclear watchdog told Reuters on Monday that the highly radioactive water seeping into the ocean from the plant was creating an "emergency" that Tepco was not successfully containing on its own.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/07/us-japan-fukushima-pm-idUSBRE97601K20130807

Japan's tsunami-crippled Fukushima nuclear power plant is facing yet another emergency as highly radioactive groundwater appears to have risen above an underground barrier meant to contain it.

The head of the country's Nuclear Regulatory Authority task force Shinji Kinjo told Reuters on Monday that the leak was an emergency, but he was worried the plant's operator, TEPCO, had no sense of how to deal with it.

He went on to say the highly radioactive groundwater is likely seeping into the sea.
In a recent news conference, TEPCO General manager Masayuki Ono said the situation was bleak.

"We understand that this discharge is beyond our control and we do not think the current situation is good."

To prevent further leaks, plant workers are injecting chemicals to create an underground barrier to block groundwater from leaking out to the ocean.
But experts say the barrier may not be enough as it needs certain conditions to solidify.
A retired nuclear engineer who worked on several TEPCO nuclear plants says the company is out of its depth.

"The situation is already beyond what TEPCO can handle. They are doing everything they can but there are no perfect solutions."

http://www.arirang.co.kr/News/News_View.asp?nseq=149925

Watch: Japan Officials Issue Fukushima Radioactivity Alert — “The radioactive discharge is out of control” — Contamination seeping into ocean is an emergency
video:
http://www.ajc.com/videos/news/watchdog-issues-fresh-fukushima-radioactivity/v8G5p/

BBC: Fukushima radioactive water leak an 'emergency'
Japan's nuclear watchdog has said the crippled Fukushima nuclear plant is facing a new "emergency" caused by a build-up of radioactive groundwater.

A barrier built to contain the water has already been breached, the Nuclear Regulatory Authority warned.

This means the amount of contaminated water seeping into the Pacific Ocean could accelerate rapidly, it said...

...Tepco admitted on Friday that a cumulative 20 trillion to 40 trillion becquerels of radioactive tritium may have leaked into the sea since the disaster.

video:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23584008

[kestrel91316]

1. Why should we care? The Japanese are EEEEVIL!!!!

Let them all die!!!

USA! USA! USA!

[Generic Other]

2. Study: North America’s West Coast to be most contaminated by Fukushima cesium

Model simulations on the long-term dispersal of 137Cs released into the Pacific Ocean off Fukushima. Took ten years to fill the whole Pacific. The West coast of the US getting the worst of it.

video showing path of tracers:
http://iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/7/3/034004/article

[kestrel91316]

6. Did you perhaps miss my big, fat, red "sarcasm" emoticon??

BTW, this radiation played a small role in my recent decision to swear off fish (along with meat, dairy, and eggs). I think the radioactive cesium has a short enough half life that we don't have much to worry about. But it's probably good that I don't like going to the beach, lol.

[Generic Other]

12. What is coming our way IS evil!!

Sarcasm aside!

I was out in my little fishing boat all day putting around thinking about the slow poisoning of the ocean. I am not sure we know what to do with a reactor that cannot be contained. That is not a path we've walked down yet. The fact that TEPCO has admitted they have no clue how to contain the reactors is also evil in my opinion. Again all sarcasm aside.

[treestar]

15. self indulgent post

Rather silly.

Today and 1945 are quite different.

[Generic Other]

22. I was just struck by the ratio of Hiroshima to Fukushima posts on DU last night

50:1 this being the one.

Kestrel was just adding a wry commentary on the great debate that is replayed on DU every damn August like a broken record.

[iemitsu]

3. A fine thing for the Japanese to announce on the anniversary of the bomb.

What a bunch of horrible stories. The focus, in each of these articles, is on the radioactive water leaking into the ocean while there is no mention of the leaking radioactive water contaminating the aquifer under the Japanese mainland? Sure, its easier to measure the radioactivity in the ocean than to determine the levels underground, and its evident that the ocean will spread the radioactivity far and wide while the Japanese aquifer is clearly more local, but if I were living in northeast Japan I would be far more concerned about the accumulating levels of radioactive isotopes in the ground water.
This is the worst case scenario.

[Generic Other]

4. CNN Nuclear Expert: Fukushima plant is in ‘uncharted territory’ — Highly radioactive water to either

be boiled until it evaporates, or dumped in ocean

[...] highly radioactive water from the site has been seeping into groundwater and the harbor off the plant. [...]

[...] The problem now is what to do with groundwater that’s leaking into the damaged basements of the reactor buildings and passing out contaminated, said Michael Friedlander, a former nuclear plant operator and engineer. [...]

[Tepco] is having to store the radioactive water in massive tank farms built around the site — a makeshift solution with no good permanent fix, Friedlander said. [...]

And Friedlander said that may leave TEPCO and Japan’s government with two choices sure to stoke further public anger: “You can either dump it in the ocean, or you can evaporate it.”

“At the end of the day, collecting 400 tons of water every single day is not a sustainable solution,” he said.

http://enenews.com/cnn-nuclear-expert-fukushima-plant-is-in-uncharted-territory-highly-radioactive-water-to-either-be-boiled-until-it-evaporates-or-dumped-in-ocean

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

17. Groundwater flows toward the ocean

The Fukushima complex is located right on the ocean. Thus, the threat of direct groundwater contamination from water leaking from the complex is minimal. However, the contamination of surface water, and local groundwater, from airborne fallout from the complex is a big concern.

[iemitsu]

20. I am not a geologist and I'm not familiar with

the structure of the ground under and around Fukushima but water flows in the path of least resistance. If, close to the shoreline, there are subsurface cracks or fissures that run downward and toward the interior of Japan, then the radioactive water will flow in that direction.
And, I seem to recall, from a geology course I took in college, that fresh water wells dug on islands or near the shore, were drawing water, filtered by the earth that was seeping into the ground from the sea, or other large bodies of water near the land where the well was dug, and that this process was what determined the water table level. If my memory is correct, then the water supply will be threatened, if it is not already compromised.
Perhaps the threat from radioactive fallout is greater than any subsurface threat, I don't know, but I'm certain that both governments and private industry have downplayed the dangers of nuclear power for decades.
for two years, TEPCO and the Japanese government have implied that the situation was under control. During this time, DUers have debated how big a disaster Fukushima was/is. Those of us, who feared the worst, were taunted with "the sky is falling" jeers and called superstitious knuckle draggers. The admission yesterday by TEPCO, that they did not have control of the situation, vindicates those same knuckle draggers.
After the bombs were dropped in Japan, and early in the Cold War, Americans were told that the effects of atomic/nuclear weapons were awesome and terrible (though even that was downplaying the reality) and that we had to be concerned about their use. But since then, in order to keep a costly and dangerous weapons program alive, we have been misinformed about the true and potential costs of using nuclear power for domestic power generation and we remain uninformed about the use of depleted-uranium tipped weapons in Iraq, and the radioactive contamination we have left there.
I hope you are right and that the ground water under Japan is safe from contamination by direct inflow from facility seepage. That would be one less problem to contemplate. As you note, the contamination from fallout is bad enough.

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

49. From my rudimentary knowledge gleaned from geomorphology class,

groundwater tends to follow the basic flow patterns as rivers, with eventual drainage into the sea via underground or rivers, or into the air via evaporation once it becomes surface water. In some areas, such as the Great Basin in the US, groundwater never makes it to the sea. But I don't think Japan has any area similar to the Great Basin. And from what I have seen of Fukushima (I actually visited there, many years ago), it is very mountainous in the interior, and I don't think that would be conducive to groundwater flowing inland from the sea. I believe I read somewhere that some groundwater in the tsunami areas had become saline, but I think that was due to sea water from the tsunami penetrating through the local soil, and not from water flowing from the sea directly into the water table.

[iemitsu]

50. Thanks, I have, since posting,

looked up ground water drainage patterns in Japan, and you are correct about the flow patterns.

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

5. Doctor Atomic: Wartime Decisions and the Atomic Age (VIDEO)

[Generic Other]

8. So it starts and ends with Japan

Before: when the rats mixed the poison. After: when it's in all our kool-aid now.

[Savannahmann]

7. Hardly ignoring.

Are you aware that several groups, companies, and agencies, including DARPA are working on Robots that can enter the Plant and conduct repairs?

It isn't quite complete, but it's a great watch anyway. So yes, we're aware of what is going on. We're aware of the extent of the tragedy. But since I am a history buff, what can I do to help that matter out?

Could I tell you that it was a fifty year old reactor design and was scheduled to be retired. If the accident hadn't happened, it would not be in a process to be shut down and made safe. Should I tell you that the convergence of events was beyond the imagining of anyone? Have you seen this documentary from National Geographic?

The fourth largest earthquake in recorded history. The entire island nation moved some eight feet as a result. The Tsunami swamped the walls that had been more than adequate for several Tsunami's before. But this was beyond anything that had been seen in recorded history.

Should I mention that the fifty workers who went back risking death to try and bring it under control? What am I supposed to know about that I don't?

The feigned outrage that we are running around with our hair on fire over a reactor that every day the news could be exactly the same about. Today, nothing changed in the Reactor. Work continues on robots to enter the facility that was damaged in the Earthquake of 2011, and the Tsunami.

That would be as silly as Saturday Night Live and their Francisco Franco is still dead news story. Fair comedy, but not really news.

Yes it is a disaster. OK, so what should we do? Not build reactors with outdated designs? We already don't build reactors with that design anymore. Perhaps we should ban nuclear reactors. OK, but here is the question, where do we get the power to run things like your computer?

Should I mention the designs that are in progress for the Generation IV reactors like this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_Bed_Reactor

The idea is simple, pellets of uranium are dropped into a hopper, and it creates the heat needed to turn the turbines. The pellets come out of the bottom, and are inspected for damage and wear. If they are going bad, they are replaced. Each pellet will cycle through several times in it's life.

That design is much safer than any of the currently operating reactors. But perhaps that's not what you want us to talk about.

Because what I see is someone who is upset that once again we are discussing moral questions of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Being a history buff I am even more familiar with that than I am nuclear power today. But here is the thing. Only by studying history, discussing it, learning it, can we make sure not to repeat the mistakes from the past.

But you may be right. A couple days discussing an event where tens of thousands died in an instant is probably too much. Let's get back to this reactor.

Still unsafe to enter, no change really, development continues around the clock on robots to enter and assess the facility and give us the first true images of what is going on, to allow us to plan further repairs.

Here's tomorrows story. Remains unsafe to enter, very dangerous. Development of the robots continues and several teams have high hopes that they will be able to contribute to the repairs.

Recycle the two back and forth as needed for the next year or so until the robots can enter the site.

[Generic Other]

9. TEPCO pretty much surrendered today

but yeah, let's have the marathon of annual DU threads arguing about whether we should or should not have annihilated 140,000 people with a weapon we didn't even know for sure would work or how! I have been on DU enough years to have read every one of these endless painful threads every August. I have made a point of trying to stay out of them.

I find it rather ironic that a major story breaks in Japan and worldwide concerning TEPCO and Fukushima today, but only one thread while there are dozens about Hiroshima. And now you come to tell me that my concern is "feigned"? YOu may not know my family lives near Fukushima. My concern is not "feigned." That is a very offensive thing to say.

[Savannahmann]

13. Then your family well knows the extent of the damage caused by the disasters.

The earthquake was more than enough to cause damage, followed by the unimaginable size of the Tsunami the damage was catastrophic across the width and breadth of the nation. So far, it has been a situation where each problem is larger than the last one. But again, what can be done? Radioactive water is leaking. We knew it was months ago. The company is unable to staunch it. Why? Because nobody can enter the facility, the radiation is so high that if said worker made it out, they wouldn't make it through the week.

Perhaps the President of TEPCO should head in personally and be irradiated and die. Perhaps that would teach him a lesson.

I believe that the People who moved heaven and earth to rescue so many from the Earthquake are working as hard as they can. I believe that the Japanese are throwing every bit of the industriousness and technology they possess at the problem. But it takes time, more time then they have had so far. Development of a robot that can operate the way that is needed would normally take a decade, and they are trying diligently to have it done in two years. Development of the equipment needed to address this disaster is something we humans never imagined.

I have pictures, dozens of pictures of shipping containers strewn about like children's playthings. These items weigh between 3 tons and 40 tons. Eighty thousand pounds of shipping container tossed about as though an angry deity took personal interest. Buildings toppled, the entire country moved eight feet. That is billions of tons of rock and soil shifted by the forces they experienced. Look at the pictures, and imagine that all those things the cars, houses, buildings and all that were toys. Now turn an army of Orangutans loos among the models, that would be about the same as what happened.

They are trying to come up with solutions. But the problem is huge. DARPA the American military research organization is lending a hand, offering money and results of research to help develop the robots needed to go in and start repairs. A South Korean Company is working to help develop a robot that can enter the facility. It is truly an international effort, but it's taking time, because we don't have anything on the shelf that we can pull off and use for this. We barely have anything on the drawing board to begin to assess the damage. This is not just a few years ahead of where we are in development of the technology. This is easily a leap of a generation or more in technology. To say it is nearly impossible undersells the difficulty.

Putting a drone in the sky to fly about is child's play by comparison. The robots will have to climb ladders, stairs, scramble over rubble, cut their way through walls when rubble blocks their path. That means a humanoid robot that can do all of that and crawl on the ground like a person. A radiation suit wouldn't protect us long enough to do any good. Yet the Robots must be able to handle the radiation without any deterioration of their components. Another hurdle to climb over in other words.

The Nation is trying, the world is trying but the scale of this disaster is unimaginable. Just getting their heads wrapped around the extent is taking a while, because you don't want to believe that it really is that bad. The robots designers are finding solutions, but this is ahead of the cutting edge of the technology.

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

18. I agree with your assessment

There are 6 units in the complex, and all of them were severely damaged, 3 of them by a combination of the earthquake, tsunami, and explosions. A triple-whammy. It's not like people can just bring in some bulldozers and front-end loaders and cart away all of the debris and make the site clean. As much as we would like to get this thing taken care of now, it is, unfortunately, a Herculean task that will take years to accomplish.

[iemitsu]

19. While I accept that what you say is true it is not entirely correct to say

Last edited Wed Aug 7, 2013, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)

that the disaster wasn't anticipated, that worst case scenarios weren't projected, because thirty-five years ago I was protesting nuclear plants being built in my state and these possibilities were being discussed.
There has been a massive attempt on the part of our government, and its client states, to disguise and defray the cost (and danger) of nuclear power. We were confidently assured that before the first generation plants were spent, we would have the technology to use the waste materials, from the plants, to supply us with a "free" source of power into the future, that would also clean up the mess made by the first generation plants. Clearly, that has not happened.
And the old designs you mention, in the old plants, were meant to be retired many years ago. Not just the Japanese ones but plants all over the US too. The working lives of these plants have been extended far beyond what is wise, putting people at risk of other unthinkable nuclear disasters, without even the need of a giant tsunami, as the trigger.
I am glad the the Japanese government, the US government, the South Koreans, and private industry are working overtime to try to solve this problem. Clearly, as orangutans that is all we can do.
You have taken the time and energy to inform yourself about conditions in Fukushima but that is not the norm, in the US nor, I fear, in Japan. People trust and rely on governments to inform them about, and protect them from danger. That has not happened.
After the disaster, we saw no less than the venerable Dick Cheney promoting taxpayer investment in building new nuclear plants, selling the clear message that nuclear power is a safe, cost effective and clean source of power, no mention of the possible problems associated with nuclear power.
My concern is that the public, at large, is woefully ignorant of the situation at Fukushima and of what kinds of danger this on going disaster presents. Of course, a better informed public can not roll back the clock but it can take steps to insure that we begin the process of closing outdated plants and cleaning up the radioactive messes we have already created, and that we develop other sources of power that don't pose such a constant danger to humanity.

[Generic Other]

21. Well said, Mitsu!

Thanks for bringing an honest perspective about Americans' general lack of concern about current nuclear disaster into this thread.

[iemitsu]

29. You are very welcome Generic.

Many in America suffer from head-in-the-sand syndrome. They believe that what they can't see can't harm them.
Perhaps this condition is not self-inflicted (all the time) but rather the product of careful grooming, by our handlers, who have denied us the proper information and perspective to be able to assess the true nature/scope of nuclear technology. Our trust in science has been undermined as has our trust in authority, so people believe what they want to believe and are rarely swayed by others perspective or arguments.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, so why are we still debating whether or not dropping two bombs on Japan was just or moral? The United States is still the only nation that has ever used an atomic weapon against a civilian population. We're still in power, therefore dropping the bombs was just. Yet, any other nation wants the bomb and we act as if the only use for a bomb is evil. We possess/use bomb = good, they possess/use bomb = bad.
Only if we really were good people would this equation work, and who believes that is true?
We introduced radioactive, depleted-uranium, tipped weapons into the war theater, in Iraq. Bunker-busters and "Shock and Awe" were described, on the news, as mini-nuclear bombs. We used these in a war of aggression against a people and a government innocent of the charges we leveled at them. We're good, they're bad.
Americans have not been allowed an honest debate about nuclear energy. We need it, therefore its good, is the debate. We did not have to "need" the power produced by nuclear power plants, they were built to justify our government's continued investment in nuclear technology (as evidenced by the depleted-uranium tipped weapons used in Iraq).
We were told that the BP oil spill would cause an algae bloom, as the natural ocean scrubbers multiplied in response to the increased supply of oily food source they need. The descriptions were almost beautiful.
Thank goodness Mother Nature cleaned up after the oil spill, she'll do the same at Fukushima.
Mother always cleans up our messes.
What a comforting thought.
It seems this is the attitude that many Americans have adopted about lots of things that should concern them.

[Demo_Chris]

52. Then you should be demanding safer and modern plants. nt

[Generic Other]

55. There is no such thing

Quit deluding yourself.

[Demo_Chris]

65. No such thing as safer and modern? lol

[iemitsu]

62. No, actually, I should and do demand the closing

of all nuclear plants and conversion to wind, solar, tidal, geothermal, and other sources of clean, local, power production.
None of us should be on huge power grids, that can darken half the nation with one transformer accident. None of us should be paying the middle-man (Enron) to have power delivered from across that grid. Power should be produced locally, by local governments, and sold at cost to the local consumer.
That is the proper role of government.
It is not the role of government, to saddle us with the perpetual and astronomical costs associated with nuclear power production, in order to have the raw materials to continue developing new types of nuclear weapons.
Nuclear power production can never create the wealth required to treat and store the spent fuel rods. They are money losing ventures that no private investor would ever build, without government subsidy and liability.
Anyone advocating for the continued use of nuclear power is either misinformed or lacks any sense of social responsibility.
One has to assume that the voices of nuclear industry apologists are also the voices of nuclear industry employees or investors (or scientists receiving research grants to work on nuclear science), and therefore must be discounted/discredited when discussing the future of energy production. These people are not concerned with the common good when they make their arguments in favor of nuclear power.

[Demo_Chris]

66. Okay, enjoy living by obsolete plants then...

Because that is not going to happen. It didn't even happen in Japan in the midst of a nuclear crisis. Right now we need the power, and it will remain that way for a long time to come. So you can either have old obsolete plants or newer safer designs. That's your two choices.

[iemitsu]

68. Well, it must be satisfying to be "the decider"?

thank you for reminding me that we live in an either or world, where there is never more than two choices.

[Logical]

32. "we didn't even know for sure would work or how" is not true. n-t

[Generic Other]

37. You're right

That was the first time we exploded one when they wondered if it might ignite the atmosphere. But why let that stop you from dropping one. I was just implying the whole technology was not very completely understood -- mostly theoretical until after they tried the weapons.

[Logical]

38. You are correct, sorry if I misunderstood. n-t

[Art_from_Ark]

53. I'm pretty sure "we" knew the weapon would work

http://www.cddc.vt.edu/host/atomic/

[Generic Other]

56. I misstated when I said that

I meant to say we were not entirely certain of the consequences of our actions in terms of relatively untested, very rushed technology. The first time they tested one, I have read some scientists worried that the explosion could ignite the earth's atmosphere. That was a big risk to take, don't you think? Always one step behind the consequences with this technology. It never got better.

How are people coping with the continuing problem in Japan, Art? My family seems to try and put on a brave face on it all, but it is obvious there are underlying concerns as well as they have said they no longer believe the Japanese government. That speaks volumes coming from them.

[Art_from_Ark]

60. OK, I see what you meant

Anyway, in this part of Japan, it's like the disasters never happened. The recent elections (July 21) ended up being a huge victory for the ruling party and its right-wing allies, I guess because the economy seems to be better than it was. The prime minister is really eager to restart idled nuclear plants and spend more money on the self-defense forces, and that's got me a little nervous.

I get the impression that your relatives are in what used to be Yasato Village and is now part of Ishioka. That area is very conservative and staunchly LDP (current ruling party), so yeah, I guess if they have said they no longer believe the Japanese government, then that would speak volumes coming from them.

[Generic Other]

61. My mother reads the Japanese papers

She seems to think people are mad. But that could just be us!

The election results are terrible. I suppose you can blame that Korean guy for some of the reaction? Yikes.

Funny that Japan has survived 2 years without the nuke plants. I figured turning off the lights in downtown Tokyo must have made a huge difference -- that and denuding half the coastline and one prefecture of all the people.

I don't suppose the new news of leaks is going to further encourage the idea of turning on the other plants. Still, I will feel a lot better if the Japanese government and others in the world get more directly involved. TEPCO should have had a lot more support from Day 1 -- whether they wanted it or not.

[Demo_Chris]

51. Excellent post. For too many this disaster has seemingly become...

For too many this disaster has seemingly become little more than a whipping boy for their personal anti-nuclear crusades. Obviously the nuclear accident is an important and ongoing aspect of this disaster, but it is only one of many. The entire coast of Japan was obliterated, hundreds of thousands of homes and business were destroyed, and this despite billions in Tsunami preparations and defenses. Simply put, no one anticipated a Tsunami of this magnitude or power. It defied all expectations.

[chervilant]

54. "...personal anti-nuclear crusades"?

Why do you feel that it's necessary (or warranted) to belittle those of us who've been anti-nuke for decades now? Fukushima is one ginormous catastrophe in the ongoing series of mishaps involving 'nuclear energy.'

Furthermore, the IAEA (its predecessors, and a preponderance of the scientific community) and various 'nuclear' governments have routinely misinformed (read "lied to&quot the Hoi Polloi, starting with telling residents of Utah, Nevada, the Bikini Atoll, and various other locations that nuclear tests were safe to watch--just sit on the hood of your car and enjoy your hot chocolate and breakfast pastries while you watch that mushroom cloud! (Okay, so the US just moved the sparse indigenous population of the atoll. No need to worry about radioactive fallout if the place is uninhabited...)

[iemitsu]

63. They didn't move the residents of Bikini far enough away

to protect them from fallout or cancer. They were moved just 128 miles away, to Rongerik Atoll, and subject to fallout when the wind blew their direction.
One test showed that the Bikini residents had an average of three months reduced life expectancy as a result of the fallout. Other studies suggest that that estimate is far too low.
The US also promised those they moved, that they could return to their homes, on Bikini, soon after the tests were complete.

[Generic Other]

57. Tell this to my relatives living within 100 kilometers of the plant

And yes, those relatives are still alive to care. Unlike others in my family who perished. So yes, I am concerned. A lot more than you who choose to chastise me for caring about the health and wellbeing of relatives on a farm that has been in my family for centuries.

And yes I am on an anti-senseless death crusade. With all the horrific natural ways to die, we don't need to add more hideous ways to annihilate ourselves. I don't know where the nuke industry promoters get off dismissing those of us who oppose this dangerous technology. YOU ARE THE ONES WHO CAUSE HARM. You are like the chain smoker who will not stop blowing your second-hand shit in my face. You are forcing me and a lot of other people to live with your high risk behaviors. What gives you that right?

[Demo_Chris]

58. And yet, that's not what I have done, nor is it what you are doing...

I am not chastizing you personally for anything, let alone for expressing any personal concern over your family. No one in this thread has done so. I was quite clear in saying that Fukushima was an important and ongoing aspect of this disaster.

[Generic Other]

59. And I and many others are quite clear that we TOLD YOU SO REPEATEDLY

This technology is deadly, most of the humans on this planet oppose using it, and our views are dismissed by the arrogant voices of a few Icarus's among us who insist on flapping their wax-coated wings as near to the sun as they can fly. As they plummet downward like Wyle E. Coyote, we hear them say..."Yeah but the next generation will work bet.....
t......
e.....
r.....
SPLAT!

[iemitsu]

64. Hehe. The ACME Nuclear plant.

Comes with no warranty.

[Demo_Chris]

67. Absolutely EPIC response to my post. Well done. nt

[Mnemosyne]

10. Not good news. Thanks Generic, sad state. nt

[Spitfire of ATJ]

11. The extreme solution proposed is,....disintegration.

[Generic Other]

25. I finally figured out what you meant here

Or at least I think I do. Are you suggesting nuking the nuke? Would that create further damage to underground aquifers? I like the word "disintegration" but not sure exactly how that is done...

[Spitfire of ATJ]

27. You use a nuke with a very fast halflife to eliminate the fuel with a long halflife...

In a matter of months it would be reasonably safe to enter. As it is now we can't even send in robots because the radiation scrambles the circuits. Better to turn it into a crater. As it is now it's going to take decades if not centuries.

Keep in mind that I live about 60 miles from the Nevada Test Site.

Did I mention that's a radical solution?

[Generic Other]

34. Isn't Fukushima built over the aquifier?

Just how big of a crater are you talking about?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

35. This is buildings, not a city. We're talking small.

[treestar]

14. We probably don't have big disagreements on it

What is to be done about it that DU can do anything to help advance?

[Generic Other]

23. I fear there is nothing anyone can do, Treestar

And I am also willing to bet that you like me have never advocated the use of these nukes anywhere. They don't make a distinction though, do they? They effects don't spare those who oppose this form of energy. I am scared. And I admit it. I live under the shadow of Hanford. Across an ocean from Fukushima. My beautiful Northwest. Yeah, I feel sad, and I don'/t know what to do. How do we stop the befoulers of this planet?

Some on DU won't even let people talk about it.

[treestar]

39. It appalls me they are built in earthquake zones

which is one place one would think it would be clearly unwise.

I live near enough Three Mile Island - wasn't home at the time (away at college) and very worried about the family.

Now we are even nearer to one, Salem Point in New Jersey.

[Generic Other]

40. No one listens -- not the scientists, nor the politicians , nor the generals or the CEOs

They simply mock us for expressing our fears and our desire to end this madness.

[iemitsu]

43. The NSA is listening.

[LWolf]

16. Whatever.

Radioactive water leaking into the Pacific is their problem.

It's not like it will ever reach U.S. waters.

Those fools who think we shouldn't have used nuclear weapons in Japan are just looking for a distraction.

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for the cognitively challenged.

[Generic Other]

24. The irony of this Pandora's box

Is that once opened it may never stop. It certainly will circulate through the oceans. It seems as though an uncontained leak of this kind will create untold damage.

I didn't mean to offend the rhetorical debaters on the dozens of Hiroshima threads. I just thought there were weightier nuclear issues on the table. Silly me! Should I add my sarcasm thing here too?


Sure, why not!

[LWolf]

26. Irony:

Passionately supporting the atomic bombing of Japan while ignoring the current nuclear disaster in Japan that WILL reach all of us connected to the Pacific, at least.

Science, which is supposed to be about the good of humanity and the planet, used to destroy.

Atomic/nuclear technology evolved to first create weapons of mass destruction, and then channeled into supposed "positive" uses like energy...never mind the waste problem and the danger of leaks. First do harm, then do more harm trying to help, then finally perpetrate the ultimate harm when one of those modern nuclear weapons is unleashed. As long as they exist, they will eventually be used. It's inevitable.

[Generic Other]

30. And they want to keep building them

I don't know how to stop them.

[LWolf]

33. I don't know either.

The number of things these days I don't know how to stop or change is frankly overwhelming.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Actually there were multiple threads on GD

And one on LBN on this.

I am still waiting for the so called experts to tell us why this is not bad, or was never going to happen, like some of us predicted.

Stop the belly aching and eat your bannanas. I am told by these experts, now missing, that's all you need to do.

[Generic Other]

31. Oh god not the bananas, Nadin!!

I forgot about those miracle bananas. And you are the last person I would accuse of ignoring this issue. Peace!

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. I just pointed out they were posted

They just sank like a rock!!!!

The yearly, out of historic context...self flagellation is now predictable.

[Generic Other]

41. Our planet is sinking like a rock too

How do we stop it? Maybe we should all be rooting for the GOP to close down the government. Maybe this is the best way to stop the destruction of the planet. I am sick of worrying every time I look out across the Puget Sound, wondering when the reality of Fukushima is going to become a local issue, knowing it has been the cloud over the heads of my relatives who live there yet stoically refuse to admit what they fear is true.

This week, the Emperor made a show of eating strawberries from Fukushima. Great Caesar's ghost! Like he thinks he is a god who can cure scrofula and defy radiation. Or at least thinks PR is needed to quiet the rumblings. Not all the Japanese are being docile about turning on the nukes there again. The women especially are rising up.

I am, of course furious with the governments of the world and TEPCO for not having focused more resources sooner on this problem. And I am dumbfounded that Americans don't seem to care, especially given that we all live near these antiquated environmental-catastrophes-waiting-to-happen. We need to get our acts together on this problem. Or we can wait until the next disaster.

Eventually, I fear we will all revert to eating bananas and living in trees if we don't make wiser decisions concerning this planet.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. Americans care...beyond American idol?

And that's by design.

The planet will go on, without humans. I am positive we are set for the great die off.

[iemitsu]

45. How could anyone draw another conclusion?

Every sign, natural and man-made, indicate catastrophic changes that we are not ready for, as a society or as individuals.
Its difficult to know how to prepare one's self for that future but giving all our resources to the uber-rich does not seem like a good strategy.
We need, as individuals and as a society, to get over our perceived differences and recognize that our survival is dependent on our cooperation.

[Erose999]

44. On the other hand, Japan is so irradiated by now that Godzilla is scared to attack.

[iemitsu]

46. I hear the Shobijin twins singing a mournful appeal

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2013, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

to Mothra, and her larvae, to save the innocent people of Japan from the deadly effects of a greedy industry's radioactive accident.
After the accident, mild mannered reporter, Junko had pleaded to the Shobijin twins and to all the villagers, from Infant Island, that not everyone from Japan should be accused for what happened to their island and the world. "Fukushima Godzilla is killing everyone and refusing their country assistance is wrong", she argued. And thus, Junko won over the twins.
The twins are appealing to the ancient moth in hopes she will rise from her nest and confront Fukushima Godzilla.
Fukushima Godzilla's atomic breath must be contained and Mothra must sacrifice herself for the future of mankind.

We can just hope that Mothra provides a solution to our dilemma.

Actually we have already seen many elderly Japanese people volunteer for shifts at the Fukushima plant, emulating the famous moth.
I hope a web can be spun that can contain Fukushima Godzilla's atomic breath, and ultimately snuff it out.

[Generic Other]

47. How weirdly symbolic our films become

Asking the elderly to sacrifice their lives at the plant was a pretty heartless idea.

[iemitsu]

48. I suppose asking the elderly to work at the plant

Last edited Tue Aug 13, 2013, 03:19 PM - Edit history (1)

would be pretty heartless but I think these Japanese old folk insisted that they go instead of their children.
And even though Mothra died from Godzilla's terrible breath her children did not escape having to join the fray and finish Godzilla off.
The focus on the bizarre and nightmarish effects of radiation, and Godzilla's radioactive breath, in the Mothra film work well to explain what is happening in Fukushima, today. Almost prophetic. Scary isn't it?