Teen graffiti artist dies after Tasering by Miami Beach cops

[kpete]

Teen graffiti artist dies after Tasering by Miami Beach cops


Israel Hernandez-Llach, the teen artist who died after a tasering by Miami Beach police, was a skilled skateboarder.



BY JULIE K. BROWN
[e-mail]
At just 17, Israel Hernandez-Llach was already an award-winning artist, on the threshold of acclaim in Miami Beach art circles. He was a sculptor, painter, writer and photographer whose craft was inspired by his home country of Colombia and his adopted city, Miami.

He was also a graffiti artist, known as “Reefa,” who sprayed colorful splashes of paint on the city’s abandoned buildings while playing cat-and-mouse with cops, who, like many, consider graffiti taggers to be vandals, not artists.

It was while spray-painting a shuttered McDonald’s early Tuesday morning that Hernandez-Llach was chased down by Miami Beach police and shot in the chest with a Taser. He later died.

Miami Beach Police Chief Ray Martinez said Hernandez-Llach was confronted by officers about 5 a.m. as he was vandalizing private property, and he fled, leading officers on a foot chase. It ended at 71st and Harding when he was cornered by police and ran toward the officers, ignoring commands to stop, Martinez said.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-after-tasering.html#storylink=cpy

[AnotherMcIntosh]

1. How many cops have to electrocute people before they figure out that they are killing

people with Tasers?

Not always lethal?

Shooting someone with a 9mm Glock is not always lethal.

[Octafish]

2. What's the matter with people?

He was "vandalizing private property."

Since when is a human being worth more than a shuttered McDonald's?

[avaistheone1]

15. Since Citizens United became law of the land?

Hey the jerk managed to desecrate the property with the letter "R". Execution was the only option the authorities had.
LE sure is responsive there.

All is well as Miami Beach sent its best wishes to the family: “The city of Miami Beach would like to extend their condolences to the family of Israel Hernandez,’’ And everyone lived happily ever after, well except for this teen and his loved ones. What more could anyone ask from such a lovely community in the sunshine state?

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/08/07/3548779/graffiti-artist-dies-after-tasering.html#storylink=cpy

[Octafish]

43. Man arrested on felony destruction charge (Parkersburg, West Virginia) for graffiti...

Here's how it works in West Virginia, more humane arrest, although they did splash the guy's home address on the front of the newspaper:

Man arrested on felony destruction charge

Main suspect in Parkersburg graffiti case

By MANDI CARDOSI
Parkersburg News and Sentinel, July 26, 2013

PARKERSBURG - A building in downtown Parkersburg led police to a felony destruction of property arrest Wednesday afternoon.

Roger L. Riffle, 33, of 1212 Market St., Apt. A, Parkersburg, was arrested around 1:30 p.m. Wednesday after police detectives and agents with the Parkersburg Narcotics Task Force executed a search warrant on his Market Street apartment.

According to the criminal complaint filed in Wood County Magistrate Court by police detective Matt Eichhorn, sometime between June and July of this year, Riffle defaced the property at 1122 Market St. by painting graffiti on the buildings.

The damage exceeded the felony threshold of $2,500, and is estimated to be around $12,000 in damages, police said.

A preliminary hearing for Riffle will be set in Wood County Magistrate Court before Magistrate Brenda Marshall within 20 days, according to court records.

According to police, the efforts are part of cracking down on a citywide group of graffiti artists.

CONTINUED...

http://www.newsandsentinel.com/page/content.detail/id/576434.html

Poor schmoe shouldn't have been doing what he was doing, but he's still treated as a human being. Really love West Virginians, FWIW. Treated me like family -- and I'm a big, ugly so-and-so, a Luca Brasi doppelgänger.

PS: The only reason I know about this is that I was in the area around then and make a habit of reading the local newspapers on my travels. The article was frontpage, above the fold. I knew I read it for a reason.

[kestrel91316]

3. I REALLY REALLY REALLY hate taggers. THey are NOT "artists" -

they are vandals and I have had about enough of their vandalism of my office over the years.

But to taze one to death? That's just beyond the pale.

5 years of probation and forcing them to pay for the damage they do is generally sufficient.

[kiva]

5. This.

I despise tagging and would love to see the taggers forced to remove their work. Killed for tagging? No.

[magical thyme]

9. agreed ^^^^

Save your art for your own property, but certainly you should not be tazed to death (or at all) for vandalism.

Pay to repair the damage and lots of community service works for me.

[joeglow3]

12. He wasn't tazed for vandalism

He was tazed for charging police officers and refusing their orders to stop. Of course, this is premised on them telling the truth...

[Life Long Dem]

38. Wrong move charging a cop

A cop wrestling with a someone is history. Today they use tasers. It's safer for a cop to use a taser for their own safety instead of wrestling someone.

[Logical]

39. Safer for the cop? n-t

[Life Long Dem]

40. The ones serving and protecting

[Logical]

42. LOL, so a few taser deaths are better than a few cops getting banged up.....

When most of them have amazing health care?

[Life Long Dem]

44. I never said that

I may have sent that message though. But that's not what I really mean. I think cops should refrain from using tasers and think more on wrestling. But it's easier for them to just use the taser.

[Logical]

46. Ok, sorry. Easier for them for sure. n-t

[Life Long Dem]

49. Them against us

Yeah okay.

[Logical]

51. No downside for a cop to shoot or tase. Seldom punished. n-t

[Life Long Dem]

53. There should be a downside

We are agreeing with the main topic. Tasing should be a last resort, much as a cop using a gun.

[Auggie]

52. +1

[Nunliebekinder]

4. Death is a bit much but,

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

[RedCappedBandit]

27. Ya just a bit

[markiv]

6. this grafitti VANDAL should not have been treated this way

calling him an 'artist' does nothing but undermine the credibility of the account of what happened

[frylock]

10. despite your opinion, graffiti IS art..

i'm sure he absolutely ruined the aesthetic beauty of the shuttered McDonald’s with his spray cans.

[joeglow3]

11. Who gets to pay to remove it?

Just because I chose to shutter my building does not mean my property is now open target to anyone claiming to be an artist. Maybe if he left his card and was willing to pay for the clean up when I sold the building. If not, then he is a criminal who is costing me money.

[frylock]

21. how much did he cost you again?

[joeglow3]

26. In our town, increased property taxes

City pays to remove all this "art." But, it is okay because it happened in a different town.

[frylock]

28. right, because we don't experience that here in the 8th largest city in the nation..

correct me if i'm wrong, but wasn't this discussion about the defacing of a shuttered McDonald's? wouldn't the McDonald's be considered to be private property? if so, wouldn't the owner of this private property be responsible for clean up, rather than the municipality?

[joeglow3]

29. So, why do you care about Trayvon Martin?

You weren't shot at. Should't just his family care?

[frylock]

32. really?

you really want to equate the murder of that kid to graffiti, vandalism, and tagging? is that what you're doing here?

[joeglow3]

33. No. I am applying your flawed logic to a different scenario.

At what point on the spectrum do I get to be upset at a crime that doesn't affect me directly?

But, I think you know that and are looking for a way out.

[darkangel218]

59. Youre really out there with your rationalization.

If a kids life is less worth than the cost of painting over a wall.


Sick!!

[joeglow3]

89. Can I care if someone's car gets ripped of?

How about if someone steals from a store?
How about if someone holds up a bank?
How about if someone mugs a teen?
Mugs an old lady?

It is a spectrum. If you think it is "sick" to draw an extreme end of the spectrum, fine. But tell me where on this spectrum the line exists where I can be upset with a crime that doesn't affect me directly.

[frylock]

92. so in your opinion, stealing candy is no different than murder in the first degree?

a crime is a crime is a crime. am I correct in this assessment?

[joeglow3]

103. I NEVER said the crimes are equal

That is you making shit up to justify your flawed logic. The poster above made the claim that I should not care about this crime because it did not cost me anything. I am saying it is possible to say both are wrong without saying both are equally wrong.

Now, can you finally answer my question of where on the spectrum can I start to care about someone committing a crime that doesn't affect me directly?

[markiv]

19. if he sprayed it on your house or car

would it be art? or vandalism?

if you dont draw the line at permission or ownership of what's sprayed on, then where DO you draw it?

grafitti, while artisic in some examples, on the whole degrades areas and conotates gang territory

it's victims are first urban young themselves, who grow up around gangs

[frylock]

20. i don't live in, nor do i drive a shuttered mcdonald's

[markiv]

23. oh - so it's 'not in YOUR back yard'

how NIMBY of you

[frylock]

24. you don't know where i live..

there's quite a bit of graffiti in my neighborhood, including two pieces by renowned French artist Space Invader, as well as some very impressive stencil work in the same vein as Banksy. do you consider Banksy to be an artist, or is he just a vandal as well?

[joeglow3]

34. Who gets to define it as "art?"

What if I think the picture I carved into your car is a political statement and, thus, art?

Vandalism, by its definition is wilfully defacing someone else's property. So, yes, Banksy is a vandal.

[kentauros]

47. I have to ask, as you seem to know the law.

I'm not versed in the law, so I'm just guessing here.

Is it still vandalism when the property owner has abandoned the property and all structures on it? I would guess in this case, the police were following the letter of the law instead of the spirit of the law. The property owner doesn't appear to care for their property any longer, or those structures wouldn't have been abandoned. Also, it seems like the city could step in with eminent domain and take care of (demolish) buildings no one wants any longer.

If they were occupied, I could agree that they have been vandalized. But how can vandalism apply to something that is no longer wanted by the property owner?

I'd say that this young man was being responsible in how he applied his art, in that he only used abandoned, and no longer wanted, structures as his "canvas."

[joeglow3]

87. I would guess, in the city's eyes, it is not abandoned

Is the property owner paying their property taxes? If not, has the city seized the property under a tax lien? If so, it would probably be city property at that point and they would make the determination.

Frankly, any way you slice it, unless you get express permission, I fail to see how it would not be deemed to be vandalism.

[Logical]

41. It is art like breaking windows is art. n-t

[frylock]

94. please do explain..

is this like "breaking windows?"

[rdking647]

85. i guess i can go spray paint your car

after all its "art"

[frylock]

91. sure. come on over..

what's with the obsession on cars? graffiti artists typically use walls. seen some gorgeous throw ups on fr8s, but never on cars. this story never once mentions a car. what gives?

[magical thyme]

99. and private property IS private property...

Likewise, public property is public property. No one individual has the right to paint somebody else's private property or a town's public property.

No more than my asshole neighbor had a right to cut down the 5' tall grasses on the island between MY horseshoe driveway and the street. MY island, MY driveway, MY grass. It provided me with a little privacy from the road, which he stole from me. You don't like the way my yard looks? Get the fuck over it. I don't like the way your home looks. It spoils MY view. But that doesn't give me the right to bulldoze it over the cliff behind it, as tempting as that may be. (Especially if he happens to be in it at the time.)

However ugly we may find McDonald's, the fact is it was THEIR property, not his, and he had no right to paint it. Any more than he has a right to paint my house.

That said, I don't think anybody here has defended the police's right to taze somebody to death over defacement of property.

[frylock]

100. keep looking..

they may not have the courage to say it outright, but it's been more than implied.

[ripcord]

106. If you graffiti on your own property

Or is you have permission from the property owner it is art, it you don't have permission it is vandalism.

[LWolf]

35. I love this vandal's work.

Art is not the same thing as tagging gang symbols. In my opinion.

I especially like reverse graffiti.

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/featured/35-greatest-works-of-reverse-graffiti/1949

[kentauros]

50. I've seen that before, and I like it, too :)

And, the city's reaction to graffiti with blocks of cover-up paint looks a hell of a lot worse overall.

I wonder what the reaction would be by a city (and its population) if someone did their graffiti in Islamic script...?

[frylock]

95. eL Seed..

http://elseed-art.com/

[kentauros]

105. Yes, that's beautiful work!

But I was thinking how would people in the US react to seeing something like that show up on a city/private wall one day? I think more than a few people would be "upset" to say the least

[lunamagica]

81. He had work show in Art Basel. Twice. nt

[Ichingcarpenter]

7. The Cops High Fived each other

according to witness reports

According to Hernandez' friends, they said the officers shoved Hernandez against a wall and was then motionless on the ground. "His body was on the floor like motionless, and they were all just laughing, "said Souza.
Fernandez and Souza said the officers were high-fiving and congratulating each other as their friend was in need of medical help. "That made me feel terrible inside. These cops are gruesome, and they don't really care," said Fernandez.
Hernandez was transported to the hospital where doctors pronounced him dead.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/state/israel-hernandez-dies-after-miami-beach-police-taser-him-following-chase-after-vandalism#ixzz2bOUpW648

[damnedifIknow]

58. That's sick

They have to be sick to do that. Immature and off in the head.

[otohara]

8. Cops Don't Serve/Protect

none of them can be trusted - my once sweet nephew turned into a real dick after becoming a cop.

[joeglow3]

13. Wow. That type of stereotyping is very republican-like

So, everyone I know who is a cop is a dick because your nephew is a dick. GREAT logic there.

[Comrade Grumpy]

14. We have a very real problem with police culture in this country.

Is every one of them a dick? No, but apparently enough are.

I say it's time for a national commission on law enforcement standards and practices.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

17. yup. not every one of them but institutionalized racism combined with

vast overuse of violence is an endemic problem with law enforcement

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. no, this stereotyping is not republican like. republicans judge people on things

they have no choice over : gender, race, sexual orientation

judging people for choices of careers is something that is common to both parties (investment bankers, ceo's, cops etc)

[otohara]

25. Just Sharing How A Sweet Kid

who wanted to help people by becoming a cop turned into a douche and racist.
Everyday we read about cops killing the wrong people with multiple gun shots, stop/frisks brown/blacks, searching female genitals, beating people, taking pictures with a known murderer, killing dogs, spraying students in the face, being dicks to occupy protestors, nicey nicey to tea-baggers, profiling cars with Colorado plates, raping women in custody, suing states for taking a stand against gun violence.

They seem to be on the side of gun owners vs those who aren't.

Yeah, cops are dicks and can't be trusted - my nephew was just one of many.
He lost his leg/arm off duty in an accident and no longer harassing citizens.

[SummerSnow]

37. my sister changed when she became a cop. no one likes her

[darkangel218]

56. The cops dont serve and protect - they KILL!

That fucking simple.

[Brigid]

18. So now tagging carries the death penalty?

To be carried out by cops who then high-five one another and crow over their handiwork?

[Egalitarian Thug]

22. Brigid, this is America. Everything carries a death penalty since we turned the stupid up to 11. n/t

[cthulu2016]

30. LOL: "consider graffiti taggers to be vandals, not artists"

How fucked up does a person's mental process have to be to consider "vandal" and "artist" mutually exclusive categories?

[sosuaslayde]

31. police state

The police state is becoming large and unaccountable. With civil forfeiture laws and increasing amount of abuse- were in big trouble. That being said- these kids are not artists. They have no right to paint any building that does not belong to them. If you wanna bring down property values- just ad graffiti! You call them artist- I call them punks. However, probably not a offense that deserves being tazed…

[LWolf]

36. Note to Banksy:

Stay out of Florida.

[Zorra]

45. Cops sure are killing a lot of nonviolent people lately. It's epeidemic, and alarming. nt

[Lee-Lee]

48. Charging at the police is non "nonviolent".

In fact it is an escalation of force by him in an attempt to escape.

I wonder what then Monday Morning Quarterbacks here think the cops should do when a person they are attempting to arrest charges them?

[darkangel218]

57. Not taser them. taser can cause cardiac arrest in ALOT of people!!!!

The perp was an unarmed teen. Fuking tackle him down like they learn in the police academy!!

Tasers should be Fuking banned!!!!!! They killl!!!

[Lee-Lee]

60. Tackling somebody has a greater chance of injury

Tasers have been shown to be far safer than tackling and restoring to hands on physical violence. For both parties. Wrestling and fighting with a person who may have a knife or other weapon is a much greater risk for the officers, and once you go hands on eyes can get gouged out, people get bit, and there is a much greater risk of exposure to blood borne pathogens.

Fighting isn't like the movies.

I have been tased. Every officer who carries a taser has taken the ride before they are allowed to use it. Deaths are very rare, and almost always either it was a preexisting heart condition that a physical struggle also can cause to go bad, or drug use.

There is no doubt that the taser is safer than a physical confrontation- for the officers and the suspect. People die from fights too, and given that once you are fighting with a suspect they often try to grab for the gun fights can and do lead to shootings.

Life isn't like the movies.

[darkangel218]

62. Life isnt the movies? have you seen the stats of how many people died

from being tased in the past years?? You wanna tell me tackling down a teen causes more injury than causing him a cardiac arrest???

Holy shit!!!

[Lee-Lee]

65. Yes, in fact it has been studied a bunch.

You may see reports, but there are lots of deaths and injuries from other physical methods, they just don't get sensationalized as much.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/11/17/tasers-safer-than-batons_n_361012.html

Using a Taser to subdue a violent suspect is safer than police batons and fists. That is the surprising conclusion of a study of incidents in which US police used force to tackle a person who was resisting arrest.

Several suspects have died in the US after being tasered, and human rights groups have spoken out against the weapons, also called conductive electrical devices (CEDs). But John MacDonald of the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia and colleagues have found they seem to result in fewer injuries than more conventional methods such as batons.

The team examined over 24,000 cases where police had used force, including almost 5500 incidents involving a Taser. After controlling for factors such as the amount of resistance shown by the suspect, they found that Taser use reduced the overall risk of injury by 65 per cent.

The taser may sound more evil to you, and the media always makes a bigger deal in the rarer event one causes a death, but every single study done has had the same results- tasers are shown to be safer.

Until you can invent the magic method to subdue a non-compliant subject with zero chance of injury, there is risk in any method. But despite the hype tasers are shown to be safer.

[darkangel218]

67. Im an RN in training at the moment, i know what a taser can do.

Save it for others who know nothing about how deadly a taser shot can be.

[Lee-Lee]

69. I was taser certified, tased myself, and was EMT certified

And I have actually read and studied beyond that.

In other words you have a partial amount of classroom training, I have classroom and real world experience right down to being tased myself.

I suggest if you want to be a successful nurse you take time to study real facts and statistics, not go by emotion. In this case you are choosing to ignore mounds of real, evidence based, sound science that shows tasers are a safer alternative than going with fists or batons.

[darkangel218]

70. None of the emts i know have beem tasered in their training!!

Are you a former LEO??

[Lee-Lee]

72. Yes

And like all departments mine required us to be tased before we could use one.

In NC part of your Basic Law Enforcement Training is the NC Medical Responder course, essentially one level below EMT-B. At least it was then. The school gave us the option of doing the extra hours, it was only like 40-50 more, and testing for EMT-B and I did after I finished BLET while I was applying at departments.

I did the volunteer rescue squad deal for a little while, but the politics in it left a bad taste in my mouth so I quit not longer after getting a full time LE job.

[darkangel218]

73. Yah, no wonder. i went to school for CJ before going to nursing.

Like I would expect you to side with the victim or admit how dangereus tasers are.

Have a nice life.

[Lee-Lee]

74. I am quoting scientific studies

You are quoting.... nothing but your uninformed option.

Good luck with a nursing career where you ignore science.

[darkangel218]

75. Hahahahahahaha!! we ignore science!!!!

I hope I never treat any of your victims!


Good bye and good ridance!!

Tasers KILL!! But of course they're so much more convenient!

Sickening.

[Niceguy1]

108. bad decisons sometimes

Have unanticipated consequnces.

In this case he made the choice to vandalize.

Bad decision #1

Then he made the choice to run.

Bad decision #2

Then he made the choice to resist arrest.

Bad decision #3

The outcome sucks, but he was in the drivers seat the entire time.

[rdking647]

82. and when he's tackled he cracks his skull on the concrete

same result... more risk to the cop

[PoliticAverse]

54. Yet another taser-related death...

Taser-related deaths in the US:
http://electronicvillage.blogspot.com/2009/05/taser-related-deaths-in-united-states.html

[darkangel218]

55. God mother fuking pigs!!!

[Rex]

61. He ran toward the cops? I am surprised they didn't all whip out pistols

and fill him full of holes. Charging cops is an easy way to commit suicide in America. I doubt that was the kids intentions, but he would be alive (maybe) if he would have gotten 'into the position'. Can't charge cops in 2013. Not unless you want to die.

[darkangel218]

63. So maybe he didn't know the "rules"! or had a mental disorder!

Does that give them the right to tase the shit out of him?? Was he armed?? Was he overpowering them???

What about old school subduing the suspect???

[Rex]

64. Just making a comment don't kill the messanger.

Just a sad comment about cops in 2013. Heaven forbid anyone try and TALK anymore. No, much easier to just pull a trigger.

[darkangel218]

66. Im not telling you not to speak your mind.

Cops are abusing their power though, and its well documented. How many more unnecessary deaths before anyone says anything??

[Rex]

68. Good question, they seem to be completely out of control around the nation.

Probably going to take some uber rich and connected person, maybe it happens to their son, before anyone will do anything about it. It is obvious that the working class doesn't count for anything.

[rdking647]

71. lets say instead of tasering

the cops hit him with their night stick and cracked his skull or tackled him and he hit his head on the ground and died.
same result and no one would really br calling the cops out for excess force.
the fact is if your stupid enough to charge a cop your risking your life. and sometimes you lose

and graffiti is vandalism.

[darkangel218]

76. They didnt need to crack anyones skull. it was a teen we were talking about.

He would be alive today if not jolted with a taser.

I protect and save. Why can't LE do the same??

In my rounds in the ER I met many LEOs who were pissed off beyond belief that they had to " write reports" when they were supposed to get off their shift.
Excuse me, is writing reports more important than someones life?????


Sick!!! All around.

[rdking647]

80. how many teens are gangbangers

all the cop knows is someone is coming at him after being ordered to stop.
ill criticsize a cop when needed but this time i cant blame them

[darkangel218]

88. lmao!!

Just pray it doesn't happen to you.

[boomer55]

77. He was not an "artist" he was a vandal and actively breaking the law.

The police responded appropriately.

[darkangel218]

78. BS!! tasers are deadly!!

So he painted a MC D wall. Legally, vandalized it.

They could have let him go and picked him up in the morning. I don't believe the whole charging the officers claim. He wasn't even armed!!!

I call BS. They plain and simple killed him.

[rdking647]

83. he charged the cop

anyone who doesnt know charging a cop is supremely stupid is an idiot

[0rganism]

86. that's their account

how closely it aligns with reality may be a matter for further debate; there were other eyewitnesses.

[0rganism]

79. he was an artist, although he was apparently also a vandal actively breaking the law

"Artist" and "vandal" are not mutually exclusive categories. If you read the article:
"He was a sculptor, painter, writer and photographer" -- at 17, he may have just been beginning the exploration of his artistic potential, but I see no reason to deny him the label. Especially when the article says this:
"a number of his pieces were exhibited at various galleries and museums in the area"

Whether the police responded appropriately is another question -- of course, all we have to go on is their account of how events transpired.

-- edit --
I was wrong about that last bit. Reading the linked article more closely, it's got eyewitness accounts that appear to be at odds with the officers' claims that Hernandez charged them.

"Félix Hernández said he saw about five police officers chasing Hernández and shoving him against a wall. Then he saw his friend on the ground, surrounded by police."

Doesn't read like he charged them at all, and frankly I don't see why he would -- any vandal with living brain cells would be more interested in escape than confrontation, and surrender over attack.

[boomer55]

93. For me it always boils down to if you dont do the crime you dont suffer the potential consequences.

Kid sounds like he had potential and he wasted it by engaging in criminal activity.

[0rganism]

104. False: innocents often suffer what you call the "potential consequences" of uncommitted crimes

Plenty of accounts of drug raids by police that hit the wrong address, people set free after decades of imprisonment for crimes they didn't commit, etcetera. Now whether that's pertinent in this case is another story, but it runs counter to your boiled-down assertion.

I do think most Americans, even most Floridians, would concur that a juvenile's acts of vandalism and resisting arrest hardly merit a death sentence.

Agree with you about the wasted potential, but he didn't waste it without help from the cops.

[frylock]

96. why would he make an effort to escape, and then charge at them?

i'm not buying the police account either.

[0rganism]

102. IKR?

Their notion of him posing a threat is hard to fathom -- I might buy that he was running towards the police trying to dodge around them if he was cornered, since he apparently led them on quite the chase before that, but it's a stretch.

[frylock]

98. have you ever exceeded the speed limit?

[BeyondGeography]

84. Very sad

[KittyWampus]

90. maybe areas should have a large cement wall where graffiti "artists" can practice. Then they can do

sketches to show prospective patrons.

As for gang members and idiots marking their territory like animals? Guess what, if the police spot you do NOT charge them.

[frylock]

97. this kid was an artist, not a tagger..

there appears to be some confusion regarding graffiti and tagging. these are tags:



this is also a form of tagging called a throw up. somewhat more artistic than just a simple tag, no?



this is graffiti art:



you'll note the tags on the paper vending machine in the foreground. can anyone honestly state that there is no difference between the two?

[KittyWampus]

101. If he's doing artwork on someone else's property then he is a criminal. You don't have to explain

tagging to me.

[frylock]

107. you can't be an artist and a criminal?

so much fucking binary thinking in this thread.