I use to semi-like Lawrence O'Donnell,now he just another windbag douchebag who lives in the village

[trumad]

Great takedown of the hot air ballon.---be sure to watch the video.

Dear Lawrence O'Donnell, Don't Mansplain to Me About Russia

Tonight, I went on Lawrence O'Donnell's show, and Lawrence O'Donnell yelled at me. Or, rather, he O'Reilly'd at me. That O'Donnell interrupted and harangued and mansplained and was generally an angry grandpa at me is not what I take issue with, however. What bothers me is that, look: your producers take the time to find experts to come on the show, answer your questions, and, hopefully, clarify the issue at hand.

I was invited on the show to talk about Obama's (very wise) decision to cancel his Moscow summit with Putin, about which I wrote here. I am an expert on Russia. In fact, it is how you introduced me: "Previously, she was a Moscow-based correspondent for Foreign Policy and The New Yorker." I'm not going to toot my own horn here, but I was there for three years, I'm a fluent, native speaker of Russian, and, god damn it, I know my shit.

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/114234/lawrence-odonnell-yells-julia-ioffe-about-putin-and-snowden#

[Bandit]

1. I like Lawrence O'Donnell

No one is perfect but he explains things in a manner I enjoy. Same with Rachel.

[questionseverything]

141. o donnell was a disgrace in that interview

he acted like the forced landing of a soverign gov'ts leader is nothing...wars have started over less...yelling at her,cutting her off....just like reps do when THEY KNOW THEY ARE WRONG

[newfie11]

2. That's why I quit watching him.

[steve2470]

3. I don't like how Lawrence handled that interview

I'd like to see informed discussion on the central disagreement here: Putin having total control versus her position that he has considerable influence.

Before reading her position, I was of the "total control" mindset. Not 100% control, but more of everything at that airport would be done according to his ultimate goal.

[VanillaRhapsody]

4. I watched that episode twice last night....she was stupid and deserved it

It was the reason I love LOD....and I think the fact that she just used the term "mansplain" here is showing bias herself. Apparently, she expected to get the kid gloves but instead LOD took the gloves off. This nut expected us to believe that the Russian brand of govt is very much like our own...that Putin is not large and in charge over there. Putin is almost as ego-maniacal as Kim Jung Il was....I thought it was a brilliant takedown. Putin couldn't decide to keep or kick out Snowden was her position....it was incredibly stupid for someone who claims to have the cred that she does....She sat right there and said herself that the Kremlin owns the media...then turned around and tried to say that the Kremlin wasn't in control of the content of the media. She is either incredibly stupid or incredibly naive. Thanks Lawrence...

[adirondacker]

7. Funny, I thought her explaination on her web page made perfect sense....

"Because O'Donnell didn't let me get a word in edgewise after that, let me explain.

Yes. I am seriously suggesting that. I am also seriously suggesting the following things:

Vladimir Putin is not omnipotent. He does not control everything that happens in the Russian Federation, a vast and often inhospitable landmass that spans 10 time zones.
Similarly, Barack Obama does not have total control over the minutiae of the United States of America.
Putin does not orchestrate, he reacts. Putin is no chess player. He is a knee-jerk, short-sighted little tyrant. Don't give him credit where credit isn't due.
Americans, especially Americans who have never been to Russia, overestimate the abilities of both Putin and the Russians. Because, I mean, come on. Tank!
The Russians did not create the Snowden situation; Julian Assange and the U.S. government did. Assange insinuated himself into the situation and sent Snowden to Ecuador (the country granting him asylum) through Russia (his great friend).
The Obama administration trapped Snowden in Russia. The U.S. unsealed the charges before it had Snowden in custody, revoked his passport, then downed the plane of the president of a sovereign state over other sovereign states because it thought Snowden was on board. The only place, by design, where Snowden could go was back to the U.S. Where he was charged with espionage, for which the maximum punishent is death.
Russia is a brutal place where whistleblowers are harassed and killed, but Russia, unlike the U.S., has no death penalty. And it is only because the Russians made a stink about it, that Eric Holder was forced to come out and assure the Russians that Edward Snowden won't be put to death. This happened over a month after Snowden's arrival in Moscow, and after the charges of espionage were unsealed.
If a Russian Edward Snowden ended up in JFK Airport, there is no way in hell we'd turn him over to the Russians. Not in a hundred years, and not ever.
You can't back Putin into a corner and leave him no options. If you are a world leader worth your salt, and have a good diplomatic team working for you, you would know that. You would also know that when dealing with thugs like Putin, you know that things like this are better handled quietly. Here's the thing: Putin responds to shows of strength, but only if he has room to maneuver. You can't publicly shame him into doing something, it's not going to get a good response. Just like it would not get a good response out of Obama.
The Obama administration totally fucked this up. I mean, totally. Soup to nuts. Remember the spy exchange in the summer of 2010? Ten Russian sleeper agents—which is not what Snowden is—were uncovered by the FBI in the U.S. Instead of kicking up a massive, public stink over it, the Kremlin and the White House arranged for their silent transfer to Russia in exchange for four people accused in Russia of spying for the U.S. Two planes landed on the tarmac in Vienna, ten people went one way, four people went the other way, the planes flew off, and that was it. That's how this should have been done if the U.S. really wanted Snowden back.
However, the decision to blow off the Moscow summit was a good one. See yesterday's post.
I am not a Putin apologist. I think he and his people do bad things, like kill people and fleece the country for its wealth. But neither do I think he's oppressing the Russian masses. He is their most extreme and natural, their most post-Soviet manifestation.

There.

My main beef with O'Donnell is not that he wouldn't let me make these 11 points—because, let's face it, that's not what the TV is for—but that he did exactly the same shit Russians did to me when I was in Russia. "

[Mojorabbit]

110. It makes perfect sense to me also. nt

[adirondacker]

111. Thanks. For a while I thought I was dating a KGB agent and didn't know it :/ nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

27. Exactly. Now she's embarrassed that LO challenged her, and she couldn't properly respond.

[JaneyVee]

44. Sarah Palin can see Russia from her house.

[adirondacker]

5. "Dear Lawrence O'Donnell, Don't Mansplain to Me About Russia" Julia wrote a pretty scathing

critique about O'Donnell and his disinformation. Good for her!

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. Then she shouldn't be trying to sugar-coat Russia to smart people who watch LOD

She didn't go on Faux News where the viewers and host will just swallow what she is selling hook line and sinker...

[trumad]

15. point is...she's the fucking expert...not Lawrence.

They brought her in because she is a Russian expert...or did you miss that part?

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. I saw it...she is not a very good one...sounded naive to me

and to O'Donnell. She actually said the Kremlin owns the media....but they don't control the media...

[trumad]

19. really...3 years in Russia...speaks fluently. .. has reported extensively on Russia

But you deem her naive.

Lets hear your Russian credentials.

sheesh

[VanillaRhapsody]

24. So someone can know everything to know about the U.S.A. govt by being here three years and speaking

English....that would make you an "expert" on American politics?

I never claimed to have Russian credentials....I'm not naive enough to believe her when she said that Putin wasn't in charge...pffffffttt


sheesh indeed.

[Cha]

35. Thank you.

[Whisp]

43. that was well said! n/t

[ForgoTheConsequence]

60. She was also born there.

Safe to say she knows more about Russia than opera loving, private school attending, Massachusetts Larry.

[VanillaRhapsody]

65. being born there means what? And are YOU seriously falling for the bit that

Putin isn't really in charge? Cause that is what she got handed her ass about. I don't believe that for a freaking minute....and neither did LOD....

[ForgoTheConsequence]

66. It means she knows more than your faux intellectual heroes.

But by all means keep worshiping you pro-wrestling/talking heads.

[VanillaRhapsody]

70. she spent 3 years there....not her whole life

are you saying that someone can come to the United States...spend 3 yrs...learn the language and that makes them an expert on American politics?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

73. Actually she was there for 10 years.

As she was born there and immigrated to the United States.

She also has a degree in Soviet Studies from Princeton.






I know its hard to imagine that a young woman could make your talking head hero look so bad on national television. But it happened and it was glorious.

[treestar]

121. Being born there doesn't mean shit

that is the least relevant of her claims to expertise.

[HiPointDem]

119. Not only born there. Her father is the Russian (Belorussian) artist Michael Ioffe, & she lived

in Russia until she was 7, when her family emigrated to the US (1990). Thus I presume her mother is also Russian, has other family & friends in Russia, & is a native speaker of Russian, not merely a 'fluent' student.

http://www.moramuseum.org/michael-ioffewalking-on-mind-fields-and-mikhail-magaril-works-on-paper/

On top of that:

Ioffe attended Princeton University and earned her degree in history, specializing in Soviet history. She began her career as a fact checker for The New Yorker, before moving to Columbia Journalism School's Knight Foundation Case Studies Initiative.[1] She later won a Fulbright Scholarship to move back to Russia,[2] and worked as the Moscow correspondent for The New Yorker and Foreign Policy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia_Ioffe

So I presume she knows more than you about how russia works & how russian politics work.

[Tx4obama]

96. She was born there - SO WHAT? She came here in 1990 and she is not very old

So, she lived there as a little kid. That doesn't make you an expert.

[HiPointDem]

120. Her father is the russian emigre artist Michael Ioffe; her mother is russian, they move in

russian emigre circles and her extended family is obviously russian. She left Russia when she was seven but started traveling there regularly after college. She has a history degree (specializing in Russian history) from Princeton & won a Fulbright to study in russia. Her writing/reportage about russia has been published by The Columbia Journalism Review, The Washington Post, The New Yorker, Foreign Policy, Forbes, The New Republic and Russia!.

It makes her more of an expert than larry o'donnell.

This was not the first time a Russian had attacked me -- in an only-I-can-make-fun-of-my-family sort of way -- for being critical of Russia, which to many people here is indistinguishable from hating Russia. But something about the way Parkhomenko cut to the central dilemma of my place in Russia shook me.

Because I am back. And -- aside from the detail that I now live on the same street, in the same building, where I spent part of my childhood and from which my parents, Jewish refugees, took me almost exactly 20 years ago -- I am back in a way that is very easy to resent.

I may have been born here, speak the language, and have Russian family and friends, but I no longer have Russian citizenship. Instead, I am back as a representative of the American press, the same institution that needles the Russians for their failures and their absurdities.

I am, in other words, a traitor...

Twenty years ago, on April 28, 1990, my parents -- at 30 years old, just three years older than I am now -- dropped their careers and their friends who gathered at the airport to sob, took their two little daughters and walked through passport control, relinquishing their citizenship forever. They took us away as a political statement about this nation's chances of a bright future; to them, there would never be one.

Once safely in lush American suburbs, however, our parents sentimentalized the country they'd left -- the culture, the language, the better table manners and the clear truth that we Russians won World War II virtually unaided. And like many expat children who hardly knew the place, I accidentally fell in love.

After a college class on Soviet history helped cement my obsession, I went back to Russia almost every year, until I decided to try living here.

But coming back is a luxury. Repats like myself love living here because we do so voluntarily; because we, with our blue passports, can leave whenever we want, because our parents had the foresight to do it for us.

We don't have to get upset, the way my grandmother in Moscow does, that elections are doctored, because it is not our democracy that is being stolen. We don't have to pay into the corruption that eats up, even by the government's own estimates, one-third of the country's budget...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/23/AR2010042302219_pf.html

[Mojorabbit]

131. +100 nt

[kelliekat44]

103. Condi Rice was an "expert" on Russia and speaks fluent Russian. LOD was actually in the

US gov't on several levels.

[Bandit]

36. Condi Rice is a supposed "expert" on Russia as well

We know how that "expertise" worked out don't we.

[coldmountain]

113. An expert that said Putin doesn't get what he wants? Seems removed from reality.

The show should have had a better expert.

[adirondacker]

20. You kinda lost me on "smart people watch LOD". I don't think she sugar coated Russia At All...

"I am not a Putin apologist. I think he and his people do bad things, like kill people and fleece the country for its wealth. But neither do I think he's oppressing the Russian masses. He is their most extreme and natural, their most post-Soviet manifestation."

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. I do....and so should you with that statement you just made about him killing and fleecing his own

country. How the hell do you think someone like that keeps his control? And yes....smart people do watch LOD. Believe that.

[adirondacker]

31. Um, that was a quote from Julia in her explaination last night if you read her comment at the link

by the OP. I do, however, believe her critique.

Sorry, I don't by into the cable industry and their mouthpieces. It saves a lot of frustration, money and TV screens.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. I watched it last night twice....it was a work of art. She got her comeuppance.

[DevonRex]

105. Then I'll "womansplain" it to her. Putin is an ex-KGB sociopath. Russia

is a scary, murderous place for dissenters, liberals and LGBTs. His economy is going down the tribes. Unless what Snowden gave China pays off with some serious help.

Look, Russia is the Soviet Union without Communism. China pretty much is China without Communism these days, except for the poor. They still buy the story.

Let's face it, the dream of communism never happened. I wish it had. The dream was beautiful. Capitalism sounds good, too, right? Until you get to the part when it sucks. This isn't anticommunist or anti-capitalist. It's anti-greedy assholes.

[warrprayer]

6. Lawrence still goes against the corporate grain

occasionally, and gets mandatory "vacations"

[demwing]

8. Sounds like ioffe wanted a free mic

and O'Donnell wanted to host his own damn show.

Ioffe warns O'Donnell "let the guests you invited on speak. "Otherwise, don't waste my fucking evening"

Most pundits get paid, and ot least get free publicity...doesn't sound like a waste of her evening at all.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. Contrary to Joe Scumbag said, there is a very real difference

between MSNBC and Faux News commentators.

I truly believe that if Larry O misspoke, he'd be the first to do a segment this evening that contains a heartfelt apology for disinformation and for any mistreatment of his guess. Think about other MSNBC hosts. Think of the ones who have had to go on air and apologize for their mishaps--whether they were forced to or not--Tweety, Big Ed, Rachel often apologizes and corrects her mistakes, and yes, Larry O has corrected him from time to time when he has erred. I don't expect it to be different. And that's why I like O'Donnell. I like him a lot. I think he's a brilliant man and has a passion that we frankly need on MSNBC especially now that Ed is gone from the evening lineup. People shouldn't be so hard on him. I'm sure he'll apologize if he has to or make some kind of concilliatory remarks regarding this story.

That doesn't happen on Faux News and I don't expect it to.

[liberal_at_heart]

10. I've stopped watching all cable news including MSNBC. I don't like to be told what I should be

mad about and what I shouldn't be mad about.

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. then why are you on "Democratic" Underground?

There is an explicit bias right there in the name for ya...

[liberal_at_heart]

13. Believe me before I found the trash, auto-trash, and ignore buttons I quit DU a couple of times.

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. Well that must keep you so busy you don't have time to read what is actually said

since your sensibilities won't even allow you to watch MSNBC....good luck with trying to prevent yourself from hearing anything besides your own voice and only things you agree with.

[liberal_at_heart]

17. I disagree with plenty of people on DU. I even occasionally disagree with people I usually agree

with. I just don't put up with hostility, bullying, and insults. My favorite show on MSNBC was Dylan Ratigan because he brought up issues the others wouldn't like money in politics and was not afraid to criticize both parties. MSNBC is biased towards democrats much like DU is. The difference is on DU I get to hear from others who care about the issues I care about and are not afraid to criticize both parties.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. OOHHHHH Dylan Ratigan....that explains alot

hahahahahahaha like there was no hostility, bullying and insults from Ratigan when he was on.....bwhahahahaha!

The thing is....this is Democratic Underground....not "My Personal Issues" Underground. This site is about electing Democrats....(not Libertarians btw)

[liberal_at_heart]

30. you don't get to tell me what to think and neither does MSNBC.

[VanillaRhapsody]

47. Nope....cause obviously your little "Dylan Ratigan" mind is made up!

[liberal_at_heart]

102. your damn right it is.

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. Love the irony of you even bringing up Dylan Ratigan in a thread

calling LOD a "windbag".....LOL

[Cha]

114. I love it too. :)

[Oilwellian]

49. Yes!

[Quantess]

109. Yes, thank you.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

69. Not the same at all.

A message-board is discourse.

Television is being talked at.

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. I watched that vid, and it was breath taking

LO was pushing Cold War propaganda, period, full stop, and did not want to hear it...why poor LO might be wrong

He is a windbag, an insider player, who cannot deal with a young, good looking...KNOWLEDGABLE, woman. Tonight I am switching the channel.

[VanillaRhapsody]

68. Shall I say....."figures"

I mean....really Russia is just soooo modern and "Democratic" now! and as far as your Gender card goes....she would have gotten the same treatment no matter what hers was...period. By the way....LOD is dating a good looking KNOWLEDGABLE woman.. Tamron Hall. I think he kinda likes smart women.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

71. You're up on all the MSNBC gossip?

It's pretty sad when you know who is dating who behind the scenes.


Corporate news: MSNBC, FAUX, CNN = professional wrestling and reality programming for pseudo-intellectuals.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. Its kinda widely known...

not exactly a big secret....

[ForgoTheConsequence]

75. No, no it's not.

Because most people don't care. News people have a responsibility to deliver the news, I don't care who they're screwing. Most normal people don't.

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. Uh yes....yes it is...and You don't know ....doesn't change it.

I never mentioned "screwwing"....I said dating. Most "normal people" wouldn't have made that jump!

[ForgoTheConsequence]

78. No, it's not.

It would only be common knowledge if you put TV news talking heads on a celebrity pedestal, which I don't (and neither do most people). That's information you would have to go out of your way to acquire.

Turn off corporate news. TV rots your brain and a cult of personality surrounding a celebrity is creepy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

81. Yes it is widely known.....you don't watch....you didn't know...doesn't mean it is a secret.

from 2012:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/02/lawrence-odonnell-tamron-hall-msnbc-anchors-dating_n_1249456.html

[ForgoTheConsequence]

84. I don't read Huffington Post.

I don't need to know about side boobs and cheating scandals either. Huffington Post is an online trash tabloid.

Notice that article was taken from the NY Post? The laughing stock of newspapers. Have any more Rupert Murdoch celebrity gossip stories you would like to share?

[VanillaRhapsody]

86. You don't read or watch anything apparently....some of us watch and read alot...every day..

It wasn't gossip FYI...I mentioned that he likes smart women....he dates one.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

89. I read a lot.

But you're right I barely watch tv given that I don't have cable. However I'll admit I watch clips online when they are up for discussion.

The whole idea of cheering for a TV channel or cheering for political commentator celebrities is foreign to me. It seems really bizarre given that first and foremost these channels are in it to make money. I remember in the early 2000's when I did have cable and MSNBC was a conservative station. Its all a game and they'll say whatever you want to hear as long as you keep buying what their sponsors are selling.

I guess if you don't watch MSNBC you're a bad Democrat. Hahahahaha.

[VanillaRhapsody]

92. They why do you give a flying fuck?

Why are you even in this conversation? You didn't even watch last nights episode according to you you never watch his show....so WTF are you doing in this conversation other than to Insult and Disparage someone you so obviously know nothing about? Hypocrite much?

[senseandsensibility]

21. Saw that exchange live and it was very uncomfortable for the viewer.

A good TV host does not make the question or segment all about him, or give the impression that he is afraid to let the guest speak, or act angry with no apparent reason, and LO did all of those things. A good host thinks of the audience. Even if he does not agree with a guest, he explains why in a coherent way after the guest has spoken. What did the viewer get out of this exchange? LO ended up looking cranky and afraid of something and the guest didn't get to speak. Wow. Great journalism.

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. He didn't give that impression at all. He was not letting her speak..

bull crap. He was thinking of the audience....I thought he was brilliant. She got her ass handed to her....She claimed to be an expert then tried to say Putin wasn't really in charge....GMAFB! She earned her embarrassment.

[HiPointDem]

129. he was a boor. and his show is boring. interesting shows don't bring guests on just to deliver

a 'comeuppance', so their audiences may indulge in a 3-minute hate.

fox lite.

[VanillaRhapsody]

144. Then why did you watch?

He delivers "comeuppance" when they are deserved....and she deserved it...sugar coating Putin!

If his show was sooooo boring...why are so many on this thread talking about it? Perhaps it is just you that is "bored".

[HiPointDem]

147. i watched his show a couple of times when it started & it was boring. i watched a clip of the

interview with ioffe when people started talking about it so i'd be able to judge for myself. i watched it because her letter was interesting, not because o'donnell is interesting. he's not a journalist, he's an agent.

[VanillaRhapsody]

148. right right right....yeah yeah yeah sure...

an "agent" hahahahahahahahah good gawd y'all

[HiPointDem]

149. don't care if you don't believe me. but lod is party line propaganda if you want people to believe

you need better actors

[VanillaRhapsody]

151. you are right....I don't...

[vanlassie]

106. I generally like LO and watch him nightly.

He was just plain out of line rude and over the top with that little incident. It was clear that the young woman was taken aback and slightly embarrassed at his bravado. It was not one of his finer moments. "Putin controlled EVERY BREATH HE TOOK!" Exaggeration that was not pretty.

[VanillaRhapsody]

150. Exxaggeration? You are kidding right?

you don't seriously believe that do you? You seriously think that Putin wasn't sitting up there like a Roman Emperor waiting to give his thumb up or thumb down? Seriously? Sigh.....some cannot see the forest for the trees is true I suppose.

[vanlassie]

152. I see that you are also fond of histrionics. That, I can see....

[steve2470]

22. How much is Putin really in charge of the Snowden crisis?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/08/08/how-much-is-putin-really-in-charge-of-the-snowden-crisis/

The Obama administration’s decision Wednesday to cancel a planned summit meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, in large part over NSA leaker Edward Snowden winning asylum there, has reinvigorated debate in Washington over Putin’s stance toward the U.S. and his handling of the Snowden case.

The predominant view has been that Putin is deftly manipulating Snowden in a sort of chess match against the United States; my sense has been more that he is reacting and trying to make the not-worst of a tricky situation. The difference has to do with, among other things, how we think about Putin and what he’s able to do.

One part of this debate, in many ways about the merits and track record of the U.S.-Russia “reset,” is turning around Putin’s level of responsibility or blame for the Snowden crisis. That point has been getting a bit contentious lately, as evidenced by this heated Wednesday evening exchange between MSNBC host Lawrence O’Donnell and the New Republic’s Julia Ioffe, which has been generating lots of discussion since airing:

(video inserted)

The clip’s attention-grabbing features as a piece of cable shoutfest aside (Ioffe, a veteran of Russian media outlets, knows how to hold her own), it does get to an interesting point. How we judge his approach to the United States in general and l’Affaire Snowden in particular is one that, we often forget, can have as much to do with how much power Putin actually wields as it does with his abilities and his intentions And that’s actually an important aspect of understanding the U.S.-Russia relationship and the degree to which it’s slipped.

*much more at link*

Julia Ioffe recommended this on Twitter.

[senseandsensibility]

23. Oh, I forgot to add that LO did a similar thing to Allen Grayson

a few years ago. He just started yelling at him. He apologized that time, so let's see if does this time.

[KittyWampus]

28. "mansplain"? So she's pulling the "he was rude to me cause I"m a woman" bullshit?

[VanillaRhapsody]

50. Yep she is.....using that term....just sealed her fate.

She really expected LOD to treat her with kid gloves....and it didn't go quite like she imagined! Now she wants to pull her misogyny card! Just proves she deserved what she got.

[boston bean]

54. No, sometimes, it' just is what it is. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

74. and sometimes..."it" just isn't

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

123. She was treated the same as many men who come on his show....

....that don't know what the fuck they are talking about. She should be happy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

124. Agreed....

You come on THAT show to make Putin sound like a pussycat with no claws.....and you expect kid gloves? She expected to be treated different BECAUSE she is a woman....I'd say she is the one with the "issues" not LOD!

[Tx4obama]

98. She also called him 'grandpa'

I never saw her before last night and I hope I never see her again

[VanillaRhapsody]

125. Yep...stupid is as stupid does..

with that "grandpa" remark...bet she never goes on that show again!

[X_Digger]

29. Lawrence don't need no stinking experts, he's got the 'gravitas voice', don'cha know? n/t

[BeyondGeography]

32. Sometimes he's wrong, but I'm glad he's on our side anyway

He almost lost me when he swore up-and-down that ACA couldn't/wouldn't pass..."Anyone who knows Anything about how the legislative process works understands this!" And then he was unrepentant afterwards. Fuckin' guy.

But he is a pleasure when your viewpoints are aligned, which they will be again soon enough. We need all the anti-neocon fighters we can get on the airwaves and he is one.

[Thinkingabout]

33. If you put yourself in a position of knowing then let it be factual, she is entited to the facts

But not her own facts. LOD was prepared, guess she wasn't.

[Benton D Struckcheon]

34. Oh lawdie,

his point was a simple one, freakin obvious to anyone paying any attention whatsoever: Snowden was "represented" by a lawyer who works for the FSB, the org that succeeded the one Putin used to belong to (KGB, if you really don't know). Everyone knows Snowden's a walking treasure trove of info on US sources & methods. This was obviously planned ages ago. His "Look! Shiny!" about the FISA warrants and the NSA may fool the average DUer, but it ain't gonna fool those guys. Shoot, they're the ones doing the fooling, more than likely.
If none of that is true, where is the Wikileaks doc dump on Russia? It'll snow in San Juan on my birthday before you see one. My birthday is July 23.

[marions ghost]

38. "the average DUer"

and you would be one of those "above average" of course....

[Benton D Struckcheon]

39. Hey! Could be below.

But if you take the mean, median or mode of the opinion of the average DUer, it's that Snowden is a whistleblower, not a spy and a traitor.
So, I'm not average in that way, but which direction from the mean I am is of course entirely a matter of opinion.

[marions ghost]

37. Lawrence jumped the shark last night

Last "Last Word" for me Put him out to pasture.

Julia is absolutely right--he was an insufferable jerk & "O'Reilly'd" her in the worst way, insulting to any reputable journalist. Great rebuttal!

Julia Ioffe

[ForgoTheConsequence]

59. No.

He jumped the shark when he put on a fake accent and threatened to fight someone on national television.

[VanillaRhapsody]

77. You seem to have LOD in your craw...

does he make you reallllllyyyyy crazy?

[ForgoTheConsequence]

80. He's an embarrassment.

He's an embarrassment to liberal democrats and a symptom of everything wrong with our political climate.

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. How would you know.....you don't watch him

[MirrorAshes]

40. She bombed on TV. Now she's mad about it.

I saw the interview and felt she was either totally unprepared for being on TV, or nervous, or whatever, but she didn't come off like half the expert she insists she is in her article.

LO was overbearing, but not really out of character for him. It was not sexist. "Mansplaining" and calling him "grandpa" just sounds petty and vindictive. She blew the interview. If you are going to defend Putin on national TV, you better be prepared to actually bring an argument and the game to make it stick to be taken seriously. She could have done that, but she didn't.

[SunSeeker]

41. +1

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. +++1000

[Cha]

107. Yeah, defend this, Julia Ioffe.. Thank you LO'D and MA..

Dustin Lance Black Urges Hollywood to Confront Russia's Anti-Gay Laws

snip//

"The Oscar-winning writer implores industry readers of The Hollywood Reporter to use their voice -- and economic clout -- to counter Vladimir Putin.
The path of history is littered with moments when progress in this country blinds us to appalling crimes against humanity elsewhere. At this very moment in Russia, lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people are facing harassment, arrest and violence under a set of horrific new laws. For their sake, we must take off the blinders and break this cycle of inaction. Hollywood is in a unique position to lead in this fight. The question now is, will we?

For LGBT Americans and the countless advocates in Hollywood who have helped champion the cause of full equality for all, these past few months have been filled with hope and celebration. Every day it seems we are taking a new step forward in this country. The dangerous temptation, however, is that we become content. Just days after the Supreme Court made so many of us feel more American with a pair of favorable marriage-equality rulings, on the other side of the globe, Russian President Vladimir Putin enacted some of the most vehemently anti-gay laws the world has ever known. The most dangerous weapon he has against his own LGBT citizens is the apathy that may spring from international ignorance and our own potential domestic contentment.

Even worse than what these Russian laws target is what they tolerate. Hate is spreading to all corners of Russian society. The head of the Russian Orthodox Church called marriage equality a "sign of the apocalypse." Roving groups of skinheads have attacked LGBT pride demonstrations, leaving blood on public streets.
There are even profoundly disturbing reports of thugs posing as teenagers on the Internet and luring gay youth out into the open and then harassing, torturing and humiliating these young people before releasing videos of their tortured victims online."

snip//

"Because the truth is, the other thing that will soon be noted by Putin and LGBT Russians alike is our industry's silence and apathy. And LGBT Russians living in fear and putting their lives on the line deserve better than our inaction and silence.".

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10023430113

[emulatorloo]

132. Well said. n/t

[otohara]

42. She's Big On Name Calling

What village is she talking about?

[Raine]

45. The "angry grandpa" is what jumped out at me. IMO remarks like that

don't help to get me on anyone's side.

[Life Long Dem]

51. Under the bus must be getting crowded.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

52. He's a moron and a fake.

Putting on a fake working class Boston accent and threatening to punch people on his show. He's a know it all prick and I doubt he would have the guts to talk to anyone like he does if they called him out face to face. Tell me more about how "working class" you were growing up going to the opera and going to private school.


Way to go Lawrence you yelled down a girl so she couldn't get a word in. You're the Bill O'Reilly of MSNBC and your show is pro wrestling for pseudo-intellectuals.

[VanillaRhapsody]

83. He is FROM Boston!

Born: November 7, 1951 in Boston, Massachusetts, USA

I think we are dealing with some fakes in this very thread...sockpuppets if you will.

[VanillaRhapsody]

85. Oh yeah....a moron who graduated from Harvard..

O'Donnell was born in Boston, on November 7, 1951, the son of Frances Marie (née Buckley), an office manager, and Lawrence Francis O'Donnell, Sr., an attorney.[1] He is of Irish descent. He attended St. Sebastian's School (class of 1970), where he was captain of his baseball team, and graduated from Harvard College in 1976.[

[ForgoTheConsequence]

87. Cool.

I never said he wasn't from Boston. I pointed out that he had a privileged, upper middle class, posh, childhood.

He tried to pretend otherwise.

[VanillaRhapsody]

90. NO....you said "fake Boston accent".

THAT was what I replied to.....and now...you just got treated like Ms Ioffe did....


by the way...he has never pretended otherwise...EVER. ....and I happen to have Boston priviledged upper middle class people in my family....so I know what they sound like. LOD has never pretended to be from a Blue Collar background...

[ForgoTheConsequence]

94. Why are you lying?

Anyone can look up and see that I said "fake working class Boston accent".

At 9:35 he clearly pretends to have grown up in a rough part of Boston.

"i didn't have that luxury in the part of boston i grew up in".

[VanillaRhapsody]

97. Why are YOU lying that he ever pretended to be working class?

Because he used a Boston accent you seemed to be saying....But if you can show me where he claimed to be working class...I am willing to change my mind. Please go on....

[Union Scribe]

108. Don't both Romney and W have Harvard degrees? nt

[madinmaryland]

53. What the FUCK did she do for three years in Russia. I can't find what her actual background

is other than working for New Republic. Was she sampling various vodkas and coffees in Russia??



I am going to hazard a guess that LOD knows just about as much as Ms. Ioffe does about Russia.

If you want to talk about LOD being rude, then that is a different thing.

ETA: Writer Julia Ioffe on Drinking Rituals and Surprising Friendships in ‘Sharp-Elbowed’ Moscow...

http://www.theworld.org/2012/10/julia-ioffe-drinking-rituals/

[ForgoTheConsequence]

56. Google is useful.

She is Russian


Previously, she was a Moscow-based correspondent for Foreign Policy and The New Yorker.

Also she was BORN there and has family there still. I doubt Lawrence knows more about Russia than a Russian citizen. He might think he does, but he thinks he knows a lot of things.


Born in Russia
Degree from Princeton in Soviet Studies
Professional journalist based in Russia

What are Larry's credentials?

[madinmaryland]

57. This...

http://www.theworld.org/2012/10/julia-ioffe-drinking-rituals/

[ForgoTheConsequence]

58. What point are you trying to make?

That's an interesting interview. Drinking culture is a big part of Russian culture.

[madinmaryland]

61. The fact that while she may understand Russian culture, her knowledge of Russian politics

is not nearly that high. She was out of her league with LOD and unfortunately, LOD acted rudely when he realized he only had a cultural expert on and not someone who understood the political intricacies of Russian politics.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

64. Out of her league?

Based on what? What are Larry's credentials? He has none. If she was out of her league then Larry was playing a different sport.


She is Russian
Has a degree in Soviet Studies
Has lived in Russia.

Lily white Larry has NONE OF THAT, he's nothing more than a talking head!




I'll give you a useful piece of advice that might help you out in life....

Just because someone has a tv show doesn't make them an "expert". Larry knows jack shit about Russian culture and politics.

And another piece of advice....

Talking louder isn't winning an argument.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Ok...this is hilarious

I could tell one of these two was out of his league, and it was not her.

So an expert in Russia, with the credentials to go with it, and grew up there....knows less that LO? Why? He's on TV? LO was pushing good ol' Cold War propaganda about the Russian bear, where Stalin controls all that goes in mother Russia. It was tragic to see that kind of propaganda on TV...embarrassing even.

Yup, the Cold War is back on...and you know what? It takes two to tango.

[VanillaRhapsody]

126. "just a guy on tv"

let me introduce you to a little thing I like to call "google"

[HiPointDem]

130. your link contains the answer to the question you supposedly can't get answered.

"In 2009, she went back to Russia on a Fulbright and worked as a journalist."

she didn't spend her time in russia drinking, or writing about drinking:

Why would the governor of Russia’s second city, one of the most recognizable politicians in the country, demote herself to the municipal level? Simple, really: The election is the first move in a Kremlin-orchestrated backdoor promotion for Matviyenko. Now that she’s won the seat, she’s eligible to replace Sergei Mironov, the deposed speaker of the Federation Council (the Russian senate, whose members are chosen from among elected regional officials only — that is, not governors). This will make her the No. 3 politician in Russia, the person with access to the nuclear buttons should Dmitry Medvedev and Vladimir Putin become incapacitated.

In the upside-down world of Russian politics, Matviyenko’s upcoming promotion, expected to be finalized by September, will be richly deserved. Over eight years of controversial, bullheaded rule, Matviyenko polarized this exceptionally educated, cosmopolitan city.


http://www.juliaioffe.com/articles/foreign-policy-articles/shes-number-3/

there are plenty of articles on the net she wrote while she was in russia. it took me less than a minute to find some. yet you claim you can't find anything she did while she was in russia, just an article published after she returned from russia about drinking.

laughable.

[Tx4obama]

99. She was born there - SO WHAT? She came here in 1990 and she is not very old

Living somewhere when you're a little kid does NOT make you a political expert

[LittleBlue]

55. I agree with her. Unfortunately she uses words like "mansplain"

Every clip I've seen of O'Donnell involves him talking over guests and acting like a know-it-all dick.

He didn't behave that way because you're a woman, it's his schtick and he does it to everyone. If you go on his show, you had better be prepared to shout.

[madrchsod]

62. my, my ,the little lady knows her shit and.....

larry can`t handle it. another reason i don't watch his show.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

67. He can't handle being shown up by a woman.

And judging by this thread sexism is alive and well.

Yelling down a woman = winning an argument to the simple minded sexist.

[VanillaRhapsody]

127. How about not treating the woman with deference to her sex?

How about treating he just like anyone else male or female? If a man had of said the crazy shit she did....they would have been treated exactly the same. So who is it with the "sexism issues"? I'd say if you think women should not be treated the same as a man in a political discussion....then it is YOU with that problem. LOD HAS done exactly the same to men who have come to his show spouting stupid shit like she did...

Thinking a stupid woman should be treated different than a stupid man...IS the "simple minded" sexist!

[VanillaRhapsody]

88. "the little lady"

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:30 AM - Edit history (1)

You actually just said that?

And no actually....she didn't know her shit...its why she got her ass handed to her.

[Cha]

115. No, she did not know her shit. And, she's the one who couldn't "handle it".

[JI7]

63. she sounds like a fucking idiot, and her writing shows it's not just that she isn't

good in front of the cameras. she really is a fucking dumbass.

[VanillaRhapsody]

93. exactly! And that is why LOD cut her off at the knees...

She thinks she is an "expert" ....no one could possibly disagree with her....they must be "mansplaining" to her...she was and still is today pathetic.

[VanillaRhapsody]

95. that was my assessment too....and the reason I watched the second broadcast of it..

I second guessed myself and wanted to see if I mistook her...

[Cha]

117. Here's the vid if anyone hasn't seen it.. it was good show..

I appreciated it. Some good Tonight show clips with PBO.. and Krystal Ball and Ari Melber were there talkin'

[treestar]

122. thanks, Cha

IMO she did have some information about Russia but never got to it - it would have been better not to double down on the idea that the Russians were helpless and just move on. She got bogged down in trying to argue that the Russians couldn't do anything.

The Russians could have sent him back to the US. What was she going on with about the death penalty? LOD knew more about that than she did, that the Russian propaganda is saying that the death penalty is on the table.

The statement from that Russian official is pretty much infuriating. They are really going to claim they aren't involved? They don't seem to control who comes into their country via even the airport. They could have deported Snowden to the US for not having a visa right away.

[Cha]

145. Yeah, she sounded like she didn't know what

she was talking about when she dropped "death penalty".. that's been debunked for quite awhile.

And, then she exposes herself even more when she whines about it. Bet, Putin got a kick out of it.. that he wasn't in control of everything snowden.

[emulatorloo]

133. Thanks for the link.

LO's show's being totally misrepresented. I note know one is mentioning LO gave her the last word.

Figures since RT is so popular here.

[HiPointDem]

135. so ironic to hear lod claim that putin scripts the russian media. lol.

he would know how that works

[emulatorloo]

138. Quote?

There isn't one, as he said no such thing.

[HiPointDem]

142. sure, sure

[Botany]

91. Mr. O'Donnell is a good man

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/40558738/



Do not judge him from just one interview.

[Cha]

116. Right. And, he's not a "dlc" guy by any stretch of the imagination..

[truebluegreen]

101. He's a DLC guy.

OK against the pukes, if you don't listen too closely.

ETA: and pompous, really pompous...

[joshcryer]

112. She had me until her Putin aplogia.

Yeah she says she doesn't agree with him but the reality is he's built a propaganda machine around his persona, so the Russian people don't really support him, they've just been blinded by his propaganda machine and his laws oppressing anyone who detracts.

He even admitted that he lost the last election for fucks sake.

[nadinbrzezinski]

128. Calling him a petit tyrant was hardly an apologia

Anyhoo, last night when LO came on...I switched the channel.

[emulatorloo]

136. Claiming Putin has no control of Kremlin owned media was silly.

LO challenged her where she needed to be challenged.

He also politely gave her the final question and the last word in the segment, something that OP and others selectively ignore

[nadinbrzezinski]

137. I understood exactly what she said

To claim the PRI had control over government owned media is just as silly, or claiming VOA asks the White House before running a story. It is just as silly and Cold War era propaganda as it gets.

[emulatorloo]

140. No one claimed "Putin writes scripts for newscasters" - those were words Ms. Ioffee

put in LO's mouth.

You and I are just gonna have to disagree on this one. IMHO she overstated the "powerlessness" of Russia/Putin over Snowden in Moscow airport, and LO was correct in calling her out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. And highly disagree we well

[HiPointDem]

118. +1

[emulatorloo]

134. You fail to note LO gave Ms. Ioffe the last word in the segment.

[Cha]

146. Yes, but that wasn't enough for Ms whinypants.

[Bake]

139. O'Donnell can be a real dick.

And he backs the Administration no matter what, right or wrong.

Bake

[Common Sense Party]

153. I can't stand cable "news" and all the point/counterpoint shows. This is what they sound/look like:

A metaphor for our times.