It's amazing that John Lewis can be so easily insulted by people hiding behind keyboards.

[geek tragedy]

There have been a lot of people who claim that he's been frightened/intimidated/bullied/blackmailed/"gotten to" by Obama and the Democrats. he's being called a liar and a coward. Because he criticized Edward Sn0wden.

John Lewis is one of the bravest and most principled human beings to ever serve in Congress. The only people who would challenge his character, his integrity, and his courage are people who are completely lacking in those virtues.

For the record, John Lewis voted FOR Amash/Conyers and against the surveillance state.

And, of course, decades ago he got his skull cracked open and had dogs sicced on him by the KKK. And then he want back for more.

[William769]

1. Your joking right?

Thats the name of the game on DU Lately. I keep thinking I'm logging onto DU but once I'm here I say to myself how did I end up on yahoo.

[geek tragedy]

2. I know. Misogyny: check. Homophobia and transphobia: check.

Crazy talk: check.

Community standards tend to be an adversely selected death spiral.

[William769]

7. No argument from me.

Some days it's a free for all & the jury system is a crap shoot. And if you don't see something within 24 hours you can kiss that alert goodbye.

[1StrongBlackMan]

94. +1 on the post; but ...

And don’t forget to add a healthy dose of racism to your check list.
It seem that some are just wayyy to comfortable with their venom directed at People of Color (Rep. Lewis as well as President Obama).

[geek tragedy]

96. should have raised that one explicitly, thx. nt

[1StrongBlackMan]

98. Shhh ...

The coloreds are making us racist.

[greatauntoftriplets]

13. You and me both!

[Cha]

21. lol

[mcar]

89. It's sad what's become of this place

Some people will use anything in their neverending quest to vilify President Obama. So, this hero of the civil rights movement is branded a sellout in order to prop up their hero of the hour Snowden.

[Enrique]

3. true in both directions

i think it's ok to disagree with Lewis in either direction, but there's no basis to say he was intimidated, and if you think about it, his clarification wouldn't have been necessary if people had read his comments, available in the Guardian, carefully enough.

I still think Snowden should feel heartened by the context Lewis put him in, especially after the scurrilous things other members of Congress said, such as Chuck Schumer. Those other comments show why this really is the Worst Congress Ever.

[geek tragedy]

6. What's funny is that Lewis is very much on the progressive side regarding NSA and Spying.

He didn't need to clarify those comments. He voted for Amash/Conyers.

[morningfog]

17. Agreed on all points. Guardian made an ass of themselves on this one.

[sheshe2]

52. IMHO

So did some at DU, and that is sad.

[ProSense]

45. Let's add Lewis' statement:

Rep. John Lewis: No Praise for Snowden
Aug 8, 2013

“News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.

“ I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline.

“At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowden’s actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908

[ucrdem]

47. " In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline. "

I'm sure it was all just a BIG misunderstanding.

[Mojorabbit]

58. you forgot to add this from the same link

Reporter says otherwise:

Paul Lewis ‏@PaulLewis4m

@jayrosen_nyu His office told me they have no complaint about the article itself. I quoted everything he said on the subject, verbatim.

[ProSense]

61. What does another excuse from the Guardian have to do with Lewis' statement? n/t

[Enrique]

63. his statement does help your agenda

be sure to use it to its fullest

[ProSense]

64. You think his statement is designed to drive an "agenda"?

"be sure to use it to its fullest"

Nothing self-serving there, right?

[Enrique]

83. no, his statement was designed to clarify what he meant

but it does help your agenda.

[cantbeserious]

102. + 1

eom

[Cha]

124. MEEEOOW. Your statement Does Not "help your agenda".

[Fumesucker]

4. Bear in mind Alan Grayson came on DU and got pretty thoroughly flamed

No one gets any respect here.

[geek tragedy]

8. 1) I have loads of respect for Alan Grayson nowadays; 2) Alan Grayson is no John Lewis.

And he'd be the first to tell you that.

John Lewis is in his own category.

[Fumesucker]

10. John Lewis did not post on DU under his own name

At least not to my knowledge, am I missing something?

[geek tragedy]

12. Grayson's a flame warrior himself. nt

[Fumesucker]

16. So Grayson came on flaming other DUers?

I'm trying to figure out where you're going with this.

[geek tragedy]

18. No, but a guy with a reputation for mixing it up and throwing bombs is more likely

to draw that kind of feedback himself.

[Fumesucker]

26. We both know that's not why Grayson got flamed to his "face" here on DU

[Recursion]

39. I missed that

Sorry to hear it, though.

[Fumesucker]

57. If you can't handle the heat then get out of the kitchen

Personal attacks on Lewis are as bad as on Grayson, everyone should get the same treatment. DU is a fairly irreverent place so I neither expect nor extend total decorum, I'm a jerk sometimes too, I try not to be with varying degrees of success.

I hurt someone's feelings the other day when I assumed they were working with the joke and they were actually serious.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014557199#post14

[tritsofme]

79. With the nonsense Grayson/his staffer spouted, it was very well deserved.

There is no comparison between the two men.

[Fumesucker]

81. Yes, of course, any opinion which differs from your own is nonsense

[tritsofme]

82. Tacitly comparing the Obama administration to "Nazi Germany" = nonsense

[JustAnotherGen]

5. N/T

I have nothing but admiration for Mr. Lewis. Maybe it's because I directly benefited from hs sacrifice?

[freshwest]

137. Agreed, but everyone in this country has benefitted from his sacrifices. Some don't konw that yet.

[Cali_Democrat]

9. One day Lewis is one of the greatest heroes the country has ever seen

And the next day he's a Stasi-like authoritarian fascist sellout spouting propaganda!!11!!1!!

All because he had the audacity to criticize Snowden The Great.

You've gotta be fucking kidding me.

[geek tragedy]

11. When I said this place had been overrun by the Ron Paul crowd, I was not kidding.

People who would talk crap about John Lewis because he said negative things about a devotee of Ron and Rand Paul are not progressives, aren't Democrats, and aren't altogether there.

[JDPriestly]

23. People who would speak ill of Snowden are simply a waste of time.

They are unfocused and unable to see what is going on.

[pnwmom]

30. Snowden himself is unfocused.

He should have kept the focus on US internal surveillance and not let himself get duped by Greenwald and Assange into handing them thousands of documents related to foreign intelligence instead.

[morningfog]

41. "He should have kept the focus on US internal surveillance."

But, Obama says that doesn't exist.

[pnwmom]

69. So? Snowden says it does exist. So he should focus on proving that

instead of shifting the attention to foreign intelligence.

[JDPriestly]

119. I'm just not as interested in Snowden as I am in the problems that the internal surveillance present

And what concerns me so much is that this kind of surveillance concentrates tremendous power, power based on knowledge, in very few hands.

On a personal level, I am offended that the government looks at and analyzes the minutiae of our lives by collecting and analyzing our metadata, but that is not the important issue either.

The really important issue is the power, the unreined power that this surveillance gives to just a small group of people at the NSA. They are not elected, yet they have access to this immense store of information about our communications, our assemblages, our friendships, our family relationships, everything about us.

I see that this power is being used as I watch political events in the country and world, and it is completely incompatible with democracy. No monarch ever had such power. It is just horrifying. I do not understand that people are so interested in Snowden. He did something brave bringing this information to the world. But, frankly I haven't seen any of the foreign intelligence documents that he is said to have brought, nor am I particularly interested in it.

I just care about the threat that this program poses to OUR COUNTRY and what is left of OUR DEMOCRACY. I think that if this program is left in place as it is now being operated, if it is not subjected to severe restrictions and public oversight, it will continue to mean that we do not have constitutional government. And indeed, we do not have it now with that program in place.

The program cedes to the executive and the NSA and the other agencies with this information control over knowledge about nearly all communication in the country and with that knowledge virtually total control over the country.

[geek tragedy]

33. So, John Lewis is "simply a waste of time?"

Because he criticized Snowden?

Holy shit. That's fucking psychotic. There are actual Edwards Snowden cultists around here.

This comment should be framed as a textbook example of vapid stupidity.


P.S. Your hero Snowden isn't fit to carry John Lewis's laundry.

[1StrongBlackMan]

99. &You caught that too? ...

John Lewis is "simply a waste of time?"

"I have no further use for you, negro."

[JDPriestly]

120. The issue isn't Snowden. The issue is the surveillance program and the concentration of power

that the program permits. That is the enemy. That concentration of power in the few who have access to the information on the metadata and other data available from these programs. They have total political control if they wish to exercise it. I am rather shocked that people do not understand this, that people do not fit the puzzle pieces together to see what this means.

[Cali_Democrat]

34. How dare anyone speak ill of Snowden

He's a hero.

But remember, it's not about Snowden.

[JDPriestly]

121. No. It's not about Snowden. And I think that is the point that John Lewis is trying to make.

He is not concerned about defending Snowden. But the surveillance is wrong no matter whether you defend Snowden or not. Snowden is already a part of history. He happened. He is not a significant person although I am grateful to him for bringing the information about the program. But it is the program that is the problem. The program would still be a problem even if Snowden had never said a word about it. We would not know the problem of the program existed, but it would still nullify our democracy. It would still concentrate ultimate power in the hands of the few in our government who have access to the total information database that includes all our metadata and who knows what else.

[KharmaTrain]

141. I'd Love To See...

...one of these threads where Snowden isn't interjected one way or another.

You are right, this is about the expansion of not just the government but corporate entities into our private lives. There needs to be a thorough examination of what's going on and a Church-type commission established to get to the bottom of any and all NSA and other government abuses. Above all, we need clarified where our privacy starts and "national security" or whatever you want to call it begins. Also who can have access to our private data such as your phone meta records or billing records or buying habits that are routinely bought and sold without your knowledge (and I would imagine consent)...data that could affect your credit rating that could prohbit you from getting a car or a job. You're damn right this isn't about Snowden...but doesn't seem some folks here can't get beyond him. By hiding 6,000 miles away he's worthless in helping in the next step of the process...demanding our congresscritters look into what they've authorized...

Cheers...

[SunSeeker]

44. Wow. Are you missing a sarcasm thingy?

By the way, if it is such a waste of time, why did you respond to this thread?

[JDPriestly]

122. Because I think that the point that John Lewis is making, the important point is that we

can disagree about Snowden but agree that this program is very dangerous to the ideals of democracy. It concentrates power in the hands of the very few who control and have access to the information generated by the computers that retrieve and analyze our metadata, the metadata of the computerized and electronic world.

This is the greatest threat we have known in modern times to our democratic ideals and our Constitution. There is no separation of powers with this program. There is only executive power. It does not make any difference who or from what party the executive is. With this comprehensive knowledge about the communications and relationships of people not just in the US but around the world, the NSA and the executive branch (perhaps not so much the president himself but a clique within the executive branch that informs and therefore can manipulate the information available to a sitting president) is the most powerful group in the world. It is like an information hydrogen bomb. That is what this program is akin to.

As I write this, someone is watching and collecting every word. What I am saying may not be said for much longer. It may become socially and politically to risky to express the abstract and essentially harmless words that I am putting on this website.

That is how dangerous this program is. It is in the hands of people who can wield enormous power if they wish, the power to aim and fire a drone, the power to inform an employer, the power to destroy documents, to make sharing secrets or confidences using electronic means of communication impossible.

So I hope that you understand why Snowden is not important and venting anger at Snowden is a waste of time. The issue is not Snowden but this vicious, subversive, dangerous program of surveillance in all its forms including the collection of metadata on a vast scale.

[Politicub]

65. Wow - The block function was made for people like you

Even a little bit of negativity out of one's life can be a positive thing.

[JDPriestly]

123. Enjoy. Ignorance is bliss. The block function removes ideas that are unpleasant, concepts

that challenge. But I am old. I have seen a lot. We can block unpleasant, challenging posts on DU, but we cannot block the real price that we will pay for ignoring the dangers of this surveillance program and focusing on Snowden.

[Tarheel_Dem]

86. "Overrun" is exactly right. You Better Believe It!

"Take a look on Democratic Underground

They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.

If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.

Lots of traffic on DU.

It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."

http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138

[freshwest]

136. Source of charges that fact posting DUers are government paid shills, huh?

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2013, 02:48 PM - Edit history (4)

Like catching fish in a barrel. How many times have we seen those charges made or nothing but name calling?

Don't forget the video of the Tea Party recruiting meetings on this, either. Deceit by the Ayn Rand cult working to create their own new order.

But the Koctopus is scarcely new, goes back to Stalin and Mussolini, as Hartmann and the former JBS member have explained in videos here.

[Tarheel_Dem]

150. Exactly. They hate "blue links".

[rhett o rick]

118. Speak for yourself. nm

[Cha]

125. Overrun is right.. and at least a couple of them have bitten the big Pizza

in the sky.. in the last few days.

[former9thward]

24. Where is the criticism?

These were the remarks:

Asked in interview with the Guardian whether Snowden was engaged in an act of civil disobedience, Lewis nodded and replied: "In keeping with the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence, in keeping with the teaching of Henry David Thoreau and people like Gandhi and others, if you believe something that is not right, something is unjust, and you are willing to defy customs, traditions, bad laws, then you have a conscience. You have a right to defy those laws and be willing to pay the price."

"That is what we did," he added. "I got arrested 40 times during the sixties. Since I've been in Congress I've been arrested four times. Sometimes you have to act by the dictates of your conscience. You have to do it."

When it was pointed out to Lewis that many in Washington believed that Snowden was simply a criminal, he replied: "Some people say criminality or treason or whatever. He could say he was acting because he was appealing to a higher law. Many of us have some real, real, problems with how the government has been spying on people."

He added: "We had that problem during the height of the civil rights movement. People spied on, and got information on Martin Luther King junior, and tried to use it against him, on the movement, tried to plant people within different organizations – that probably led to the destruction of some of those groups."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/john-lewis-civil-rights-edward-snowden/print

[pnwmom]

32. In a later statement, Lewis said that that report of his remarks was misleading and out of context.

What was left OUT of that reporting was just as important as what the reporter chose to include. According to Lewis, who should know.

[former9thward]

37. He is free to add what is left out.

And is free to add context. As a congressman he can get an interview anytime he wants, a press conference anytime or speak on the floor of the House anytime.

[pnwmom]

67. He did that in his second statement, saying the Guardian report was misleading. Did you read it? n/t

[former9thward]

71. Yes I read it.

And the Snowden haters are trying to turn it into some condemnation of Snowden. Its not there.

[pnwmom]

75. It's not a condemnation of Snowden. And it's not nominating him for sainthood, either.

He criticizes Snowden for his leaks with regard to foreign intelligence, which is a valid criticism.

[1StrongBlackMan]

100. But ...

Those that know the least bit about Rep Lewis or the Civil Rights Movement did not need the clarification to understand that Rep. Lewis was not supporting snowden. The tell was that i"snowden for civil rights saint" ignored ... "willing tp pay the price" part.

[HiPointDem]

114. he's paying a price. exile. you can't do something illegal and not pay a price. unless you're a

bank or a hedge fund, that is.

[1StrongBlackMan]

147. BULLSHIT ...

freely chosing to live a country is not being exiled and being "forced" to leave the comfort of life as you once knew (because you committed a crime) is not paying a price.

[HiPointDem]

148. bullshit yourself. he didn't freely chose to live in russia.

[DevonRex]

158. LOL! As IF he couldn't havce flown to South America from Hawaii.

His original explanation for that was total bullshit, as everyone here who's ever had a clearance can tell you. It's a helluva lot easier to go to South America than Hong Kong. Clearance-wise. And he had no problem going to HK.

You track which flights are never full going to South America. You pick one of those, buy your ticket at the airport. Get on the flight. That's all.

[1StrongBlackMan]

166. Okay n/t

[DevonRex]

157. He got called back home to Mat' Rossiya.

With a message to deliver to China along the way. And a little bit of intelligence to help them against the USA in return for some economic help to Moscow.

[Cha]

126. Yes, they thought that he'd already paid the price... poor thing..

the Iceland gig didn't work out.

But, the St Leaker loves Russia..

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

"We're talking the first here.. "

Hates the USA.. so I'm asking ..what price?

[Cha]

28. but, not yesterday when it was said that JL thought.. "snowden was like Ghandi"..

I did not see one person here throwing JL under da bus.

[muriel_volestrangler]

134. One DUer said that was "deranged" and "insane":

That's deranged.

I don't know who this guy is, but the idea is insane.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3427212

That was in reply to the OP "Civil Rights Icon John Lewis: Snowden’s Actions In Line With Gandhi, Thoreau"

[Tarheel_Dem]

84. Same thing happened to Naomi Wolfe. She had the audacity to question Snowie's declarations.

[rhett o rick]

117. We know you worship the ground Gen Alexander walks on. Booz-Allen uber alles. nm

[Cali_Democrat]

152. LMAO. n/t

[freshwest]

135. If it wasn't so insulting to a great man, it'd be hilarious. It's a slur by media who never cared.

The Libertarians have crossed the line by smearing a man who was brave without a gun in his hand, while they claim civil rights leaders are racists. This is utterly disgusting!

[morningfog]

14. John Lewis is an incredible man. I had the privilege to hear him speak and meet

him some years ago. There are none more deserving of respect in Congress than him.

I don't think he is a liar or a coward.

[geek tragedy]

15. +1000 nt

[William769]

20. Agreed.

[DevonRex]

159. Thank you. I am in awe of him. I love seeing others

who are, too. You made my eyes tear all up that we have something in common. I'm going to hold real tight to that. Real tight.

[liberal_at_heart]

19. don't know much about John Lewis. If he has done the things you say he has done, he does indeed

sound like a great activist and am glad to see he is courageous enough to vote against the surveillance. The fact is none of us including many in Congress would never have known any of the surveillance overreaches had Snowden not leaked the information. Some Congress memebers have been told they are not allowed to share information about the surveillance with fellow Congress members. The secrecy itself is a big problem and would never have seen the light of day without Snowden. So, while I'm sure Lewis is a great guy I still disagree with him on whether or not Snowden did the right thing.

[geek tragedy]

29. John Lewis:

John Lewis was chairman of SNCC during its most productive years. During his tenure, SNCC opened Freedom Schools, launched the Mississippi Freedom Summer and is generally recognized as one of the important leaders of the civil rights movement. He was a hard-working young man who overcame poverty and political disenfranchisement to educate himself.

He graduated from the American Baptist Theological Seminary in Nashville and then received a bachelor's degree in Religion and Philosophy from Fisk University. As a student, Lewis was very dedicated to the civil rights movement. He organized sit-ins at segregated lunch counters in Nashville and took part in many other civil rights activities as part of the Nashville Student Movement. He was instrumental in organizing student sit-ins, bus boycotts and non-violent protests in the fight for voter and racial equality.

In 1960, Lewis joined the Freedom Riders. He was one of the 13 original Freedom Riders. There were seven whites and six blacks who were determined to ride from Washington, DC, to New Orleans in an integrated fashion. At that time, several states of the old Confederacy still enforced laws prohibiting black and white riders from sitting next to each other on public transportation. The Freedom Ride, originated by the Fellowship of Reconciliation and revived by Farmer and CORE, was initiated to pressure the federal government to enforce the Supreme Court decision in Boynton v. Virginia (1960) that declared segregated interstate bus travel to be unconstitutional. In the South, Lewis and other non-violent Freedom Riders were beaten by angry mobs, arrested at times and taken to jail. When CORE gave up on the Freedom Ride because of the violence, Lewis and fellow activist Diane Nash arranged for the Nashville students to take it over and bring it to a successful conclusion.

In 1963, when Chuck McDew stepped down as SNCC chairman, Lewis, one of the founding members of SNCC, was quickly elected to take over. Lewis's experience at that point was already widely respected. His courage and his tenacious adherence to the philosophy of reconciliation and non-violence made him emerge as a leader. By this time, he had been arrested 24 times in the non-violent struggle for equal justice. He held the post of chairman until 1966.


By 1963, he was recognized as one of the "Big Six" leaders of the Civil Rights Movement, along with Whitney Young, A. Phillip Randolph, James Farmer and Roy Wilkins. In that year, Lewis helped plan the historic March on Washington in August 1963, the occasion of Dr. King's celebrated "I Have a Dream" speech. Currently, he is the last remaining speaker from the march. Lewis represented SNCC, the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, and at 23 was the youngest speaker that day.[3]

In 1964, Lewis coordinated SNCC's efforts for "Mississippi Freedom Summer," a campaign to register black voters across the South. The Freedom Summer was an attempt to expose college students from around the country to the perils of African American life in the South. Lewis traveled the country encouraging students to spend their summer break trying to help people in Mississippi, the most recalcitrant state in the union, to register and vote. Lewis became nationally known during his prominent role in the Selma to Montgomery marches. On March 7, 1965 – a day that would become known as "Bloody Sunday" – Lewis and fellow activist Hosea Williams led over 600 marchers across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma, Alabama. At the end of the bridge, they were met by Alabama State Troopers who ordered them to disperse. When the marchers stopped to pray, the police discharged tear gas and mounted troopers charged the demonstrators, beating them with night sticks. Lewis's skull was fractured, but he escaped across the bridge, to a church in Selma. Before he could be taken to the hospital, John Lewis appeared before the television cameras calling on President Johnson to intervene in Alabama. On his head, Lewis bears scars that are still visible today.

Historian Howard Zinn wrote: "At the great Washington March of 1963, the chairman of the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), John Lewis, speaking to the same enormous crowd that heard Martin Luther King’s I Have a Dream speech, was prepared to ask the right question: 'Which side is the federal government on?’ That sentence was eliminated from his speech by organizers of the March to avoid offending the Kennedy Administration. But Lewis and his fellow SNCC workers had experienced, again and again, the strange passivity of the national government in the face of Southern violence."[4]


"John Lewis and SNCC had reason to be angry. At 21 years old, John Lewis was the first of the Freedom Riders to be assaulted while in Rock Hill, South Carolina. He tried to enter a whites-only waiting room and two white men attacked him, injuring his face and kicking him in the ribs. Nevertheless, only two weeks later Lewis joined a Freedom Ride that was bound for Jackson. “We were determined not to let any act of violence keep us from our goal. We knew our lives could be threatened, but we had made up our minds not to turn back,” Lewis said recently in regard to his perseverance following the act of violence.[5]

In an interview with CNN during the 40th anniversary of the Freedom Rides, Lewis recounted the sheer amount of violence he and the 12 other original Freedom Riders endured. In Anniston, Alabama, the bus was fire-bombed after Ku Klux Klan members deflated its tires, forcing it to come to a stop. In Birmingham, the Riders were mercilessly beaten, and in Montgomery, an angry mob met the bus, and Lewis was hit in the head with a wooden crate. “It was very violent. I thought I was going to die. I was left lying at the Greyhound bus station in Montgomery unconscious,” said Lewis, remembering the incident.


The original intent of the Freedom Rides was to test the new law that banned segregation in public transportation. It also exposed the passivity of the government regarding violence against citizens of the country who were simply acting in accordance to the law.[6] The federal government had trusted the notoriously racist Alabama police to protect the Riders, but did nothing itself, except to have FBI agents take notes. The Kennedy Administration then called for a 'cooling-off period,' a moratorium on Freedom Rides.[4] Lewis had been imprisoned for forty days in the Mississippi State Penitentiary in Sunflower County, Mississippi, after participating in a Freedom Riders activity in that state.[7]

In February 2009, forty-eight years after he had been bloodied by the Ku Klux Klan during civil rights marches, Lewis received an apology on national television from a white southerner, former Klansman Elwin Wilson.[8][9]

After leaving SNCC in 1966, Lewis worked with community organizations and was named community affairs director for the National Consumer Co-op Bank in Atlanta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lewis_(U.S._politician)

[liberal_at_heart]

36. I have a great deal of respect for civil rights leaders. I think it is that kind of action we need

again in order to fight for voters rights, education, Social Security, wages, and many other important issues. I still disagree with him about Snowden however.

[geek tragedy]

38. That's perfectly okay. No need to agree with him. nt

[DevonRex]

22. The Guardian used our Civil Rights Hero for their own ends.

IMO, that reporter purposely got that interview under the auspices of discussing Congressman Lewis's civil rights and life history, which is nothing short of amazing. He is the only living member of the "Big Six" left among us. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Six_(civil_rights) His story is invaluable. That a reporter would use and abuse that story for his own purposes, slyly but intentionally twisting it to say something the congressman did not say, is racist.

He used an African American story, an African American struggle, a people who protested without endangering others' lives, all the while putting their own lives on the line. They were willing and ready to lose their freedom and their very lives for civil rights. Many, including John Lewis, were jailed. Many did lose their lives. None ran. Because of the Big Six, none ran. Because of the Big Six, support came from around the nation.

And the Voting Rights Act was signed. http://www.866ourvote.org/pages/rep-john-lewis-delivers-a-passionate-speech-to-protect-the-voting-rights-act

And now this smarmy little Guardian reporter wants to USE this great man to get readers for his stupid column, in his slimy tabloid, for his fucking little traitor Snowden who defected to fucking Russia?

Wanna see what Russia does to whistleblowers?
HIS is what RUSSIA does to whistleblowers, liberals, dissenters, and probably LGBTs.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky

Sergei Leonidovich Magnitsky (Russian: Сергей Леонидович Магнитский; 8 April 1972 – 16 November 2009) was a Russian accountant and auditor whose arrest and subsequent death in custody generated international media attention and triggered both official and unofficial inquiries into allegations of fraud, theft and human rights violations. Magnitsky had alleged there had been a large-scale theft from the Russian state sanctioned and carried out by Russian officials. He was arrested and eventually died in prison seven days before the expiration of the one-year term during which he could be legally held without trial. In total, Magnitsky served 358 days in Moscow's notorious Butyrka prison. He developed gall stones, pancreatitis and a blocked gall bladder and received inadequate medical care. A human rights council set up by the Kremlin found that he was beaten up just before he died. His case has become an international cause célèbre and led to the adoption of the Magnitsky bill by the US government at the end of 2012 by which those Russian officials believed to be involved in the lawyer’s death were barred from entering the United States or using its banking system. In response Russia blocked hundreds of foreign adoptions. In early January 2013, the Financial Times editorialised that "the Magnitsky case is egregious, well documented and encapsulates the darker side of Putinism" and endorsed the idea of imposing similar sanctions against the implicated Russian officials by the EU countries.

In 2013 the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists, a D.C-based nonprofit news organization, obtained records of companies and trusts created by two offshore companies which included information on at least 23 companies linked to an alleged $230 million tax fraud in Russia, a case that was being investigated by Sergei Magnitsky. The ICIJ investigation also revealed that the husband of one of the Russian tax officials deposited millions in a Swiss bank account set up by one of the offshore companies.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/8207690/Sergei-Magnitsky-European-Parliament-recommends-tough-sanctions-on-Russian-officials.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-drops-inquiry-into-death-of-sergei-magnitsky-8541205.html

Investigators have dropped an inquiry into the death in jail of Sergei Magnitsky, stating that the whistleblowing lawyer’s agonising death, which became an international scandal, was not the result of malpractice.

[SunSeeker]

48. "Many did lose their lives. None ran." Because none ran..."support came from around the nation."

Perfectly stated. They could have left the South. But they did not. In fact, Lewis is still there. Because he knows running is not the answer. They know that you must stay and fight for what you believe it if you are going to change anything.

[DevonRex]

68. Thank you. We owe so much to John Lewis and The Big Six.

I'm disgusted that The Guardian used Lewis this way, to try to elevate a coward who ran to a place who imprisons, tortures and murders dissenters and liberals and now LGBTs.

He could have bought a plane ticket straight to South America from Hawaii. He chose Hawaii to Hong Kong to Russia. I believe Russia was always the intended destination. The hullabaloo is nothing but smoke and mirrors. He has been a Russian agent for a long time.

His little comment about travel being limited is bullshit. All he had to do was pick a flight that was never full, buy the ticket at the airport and get on the plane. End of story. They didn't stop him from going to Hong Kong, they wouldn't have stopped him from going to South America.

And this is the guy The Guardian used OUR civil rights hero to prop up. Fuck The Guardian.

[SunSeeker]

72. Another excellent point: "He could have bought a plane ticket straight to South America from Hawaii"

Or, he could have avoided running altogether by not leaking illegally to foreign countries, and instead using U.S. whistle-blower statutes and going to a U.S. Congress critter to dump his data--then his dump would not have been illegal. Why didn't he go to Rand Paul, his hero?

[DevonRex]

76. Because he's not doing this for the good of Americans.

He's doing this as an agent. Agents go when they're called home or when their cover's blown. The stop in Hong Kong had a purpose. Deliver a message and drop off a little something from the stolen intelligence so the Chinese would cooperate with Russia on something else. The Russian economy needs help so that's where I'd look for the payoff.

[sheshe2]

88. They dare to compare...

‘Not to injure or destroy but to build … to reconcile’: The Gospel according to John Lewis
January 20, 2013 By Fred Clark

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2013/01/20/not-to-injure-or-destroy-but-to-build-to-reconcile-the-gospel-according-to-john-lewis/

Amazing Devon, it really is.

[DevonRex]

93. I just emailed a V.P. at The Guardian U.S.

I went through some of that history and the signing of the VRA and the recent Supreme Court decision and then put this in:
http://www.866ourvote.org/pages/rep-john-lewis-delivers-a-passionate-speech-to-protect-the-voting-rights-act

Told her they made a big mistake using a man like that for their own aggrandizement. He is not a man whose words should be twisted by some little sniffly twit new on the beat.

[sheshe2]

97. Devon, that was an excellent idea!

Oh please let me know if you get a response from them!

[DevonRex]

101. I will. She had been at MoveOn before this.

Now she's marketing at Guardian. I don't think this stunt helps their marketing much. Unless they can afford to just exclude African Americans and people who are savvy to issues like this from their readership.

[Cha]

130. No, I'd say it's hurt it.. we'll see to what extent. nm

[DevonRex]

151. Seems like some people are more than willing to

turn a blind eye. Not surprised anymore. The infestation continues.

[Cha]

155. Yes but, .. Reading other Democratic Websites and

a lot of people are even less impressed with the guardian than ever before. In fact they're really pissed that they would try to do this to Rep John Lewis to prop up snowden.

[DevonRex]

156. Good. I need to go to those. I am in a rut.

Where are these Democrats now? I Got a reply from Jennifer L., V.P. of Marketing at Guardian U.S. She said she does indeed understand my point that he should not be used that way. I also told her it was racist. I assume she understands that, as well. She said she was sorry I was disappointed in the article. I had told her I was angry about it. She thanked me for reading The Guardian.

She was nice. I was glad she responded. I know she understood. But defensive tweets by the author make it clear that he and the rag don't get it. Which is why I will not read anything they publish again. Standing on the back of a civil rights icon to drive his face in the mud to prop up your lie is racism. Racism is not acceptable.

[Cha]

163. Good you got a reply, Devon.. and thank you so much for contacting

them in the first place.

Here's a link on the guardian spinning John Lewis' thoughts on civil rights and oh yeah, the snowden question at the end.. read the comments and you'll get an idea what I'm talking about.

http://www.thepeoplesview.net/2013/08/civil-rights-icon-praises-edward.html

And TOD, is always good for the reality version of events.. They were all over the real meaning of what John Lewis said before his statement came out that said the guardian was "misleading".

http://theobamadiary.com/

[DevonRex]

164. Thanks, Cha.

I'm getting tired of arguing with people who aren't, never were and never will be, Democrats. And who will never like anything the Party does or does not do, thinks about doing, hasn't thought about doing, says they will or won't do, etc. And will never vote for a Democrat since they might get cooties. Who knew it'd turn out this way here? We did, in January 2009. Actually mid November 2008, if we're honest.

I'm looking for easy software like DU has. I like the format. And Democrats. Shouldn't be so hard to find. Sane people who don't follow the first geek to the next hysterical panic fest.

[Cha]

165. Exactly, Devon.. who knew we'd we

defending PBO against Putin? that takes some real putin pretzel expertise.

Yeah, I like DU's format and I like so many peeps here. .. but, I do go to the other sites to get a better perspective of what is actually going on with the Obama Admin.

[freshwest]

140. And to promote a Libertarian Paul supporter who doesn't believe in anything Lewis did.

The Guardian knows better, but like so many other media venues, they've been bought out by Koch dollars. I just read a piece yesterday on a conservative website where they bragged about buying liberal newspapers. They are taking over local television networks and papers, pushing Libertarian lies, and web sites where they do the same. You go to some sources and will see a total turnabout in last few weeks.

[Cha]

129. Thank you for those historic photos of John Lewis, she!

and the link!

[Cha]

128. Thank you for this research and compilation on Rep John Lewis and

"whistleblowers" in Russia, Devon!

I knew something was up yesterday.. I'm thinking that will be the last time John Lewis lets the guardian interview on anything. they screwed the pooch big time.

[Number23]

25. Wait, so has there been an update to the obvious "massaging" of Lewis' quotes re: Snowden?

My favorite was the poster who suggested that Lewis had "dementia" when the running gag was that his comments were pro-Snowden. Under the guise, of course, that this is what the "apologists" were going to be saying about him even though no "apologists" had said anything of the sort.

[ucrdem]

35. Just saw this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3428094

The Guardian.

[Number23]

50. Thanks and I just saw the kpete thread on it too.

[ucrdem]

53. Shameless aren't they.

The whole stinking Guardian Wikileaks Asshat Screwball GG crew. Why anybody gives them the time of day after all the shit they've pulled I can't fathom.


p.s. actually, I can.

[Number23]

56. It's not just them. As I said in the other thread, yesterday was Claim a Negro day here

You had the pro-Snowden crowd claiming John Lewis was lapping at the Snowden trough and then trying to make it seem like Van Jones slapped Obama in the face with a rubber chicken over the surveillance when all he said, LITERALLY, was that "we need to balance these programs." Somebody even tried to toss Cornell in the mix too but he has been so thoroughly exposed as a bitter hater that it didn't take the way they were hoping.

And this same crowd howls at the moon when someone so much as breathes the dreaded "R" word and even tried to do the "Van Jones must be a racist!1" crap when his comments were so benign and bland, if a white person had said the same thing, no one would have given them the time of day. Funny that.

[ucrdem]

60. ODS knows no rhyme or reason.

And some people mistake teabaggerism for "leftism" at the invitation of media goons who encourage and constantly reinforce that ridiculous notion.

[freshwest]

143. +1

[JustAnotherGen]

138. +1

And you made me with the "Claim A Negro" day. Sadly - so very accurate. Funny how that works eh?

[freshwest]

142. Wow. They added a lot to his remarks. Disgusting.

[DevonRex]

161. Fresh, email the Guardian. I did.

I called it flat out racist what that reporter did. He was stepping on the back of a civil rights hero, using John Lewis and lying about his words - that's pushing John Lewis DOWN again to prop up that reporter's own agenda.

[hrmjustin]

27. K&R!

[CakeGrrl]

31. Thus is the hysteria around protecting Snowden.

It's not possible in some minds to think that Lewis could actually RETRACT the notion that Snowden is on par with MLK or Parks or Gandhi.

Because to them, he is.

And we've seen how some of the Snowden defenders go after other DUers who think he should be accountable for his lawbreaking. And I don't buy the 'both sides do it' crap. The namecalls are pretty unidirectional: Idiots, Stasi State Supporters, NSA Apologists, Coulter-ish, quislings, and so on and so on.

And some of those same people had the nerve to speculate (PROJECT) that Lewis would be thrown under the bus when the first article was released.

And then THEY proceeded to do it: Imply that Lewis, who STOOD UP TO THE JIM CROW TERRORISTS, must have been intimidated into retracting his Snowden praise.

Ridiculous.

[morningfog]

46. Lewis' quote never made the suggestion that Snowden was on par with

Gandhi or Thoreau. He never even mentioned Parks or MLK. Anyone who read his quote should have known that.

[CakeGrrl]

49. No, Parks and MLK weren't mentioned

but you're sidestepping the point. That quote was thrown up there as fast as possible yesterday and people danced around it with glee as another feather in Snowden's cap of support. And I will stand by the conflation that somehow, a comparison was being made to Gandhi.

But today, the same people who ate up that first article now claim that Lewis must have been intimidated by the "spooks". They'd rather believe that than believe that Lewis' statement was not the lofty assessment of Snowden that generated all the excitement yesterday.

[morningfog]

54. I'll take it straight on.

Lewis said Snowden had engaged in civil disobedience. After The Guardian vastly overstated his position and added "praise" and wrongfully interpreted it, Lewis corrected and clarified the record.

Lewis does not support Snowden's actions in any way, but he did still say this was in the practice of non-violence and civil disobedience. Lewis is saying it was civil disobedience and that it was wrong and that he does not support it.

I think that is important. Lewis sees Snowden acting not with criminal intent, but from his convictions. He means are civil disobedience, which is much preferred to terrorism or violence.

I would never disparage Lewis or suggest that he does anything other than what he believes in. The Guardian fucked it up.

[ucrdem]

55. The Guardian didn't fuck up.

They grotesquely twisted the words of a respected Congress member so as to make it seem like he was taking a crap on Obama. He wasn't. But the Guardian was. This was no accident. They sandbagged him.

The Guardian is trash and that's the polite version.

[DevonRex]

162. Email The Guardian U.S. I did. I emailed a V.P.

I got a response. It didn't say much. But I think she understood. After that asshole reporter's defensive tweets, I won't read a word they publish.

[CakeGrrl]

80. I believe Lewis deferred on criminality:

"I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that."

[harrylimelives999]

40. John Lewis is a hero

There are actually comments on the Dailykos today saying that John Lewis's sacrifices and adversities are nothing when compared to Snowden's. Total fucking madness. Lewis shed blood for equality the hard way, and these attacks on him are pretty repulsive.

[geek tragedy]

43. I saw that. Well, that's what happens when lilly white libertarian nutjobs

infest a progressive website.

[freshwest]

145. I always picture an army of Neidermeyers or Marmalards typing away

Otherwise known as College Republicans, Young Americans for Freedom (YAF) or simply Hitler Youth.

[sheshe2]

87. OMG!

They actually said that!

[DevonRex]

95. They were either stupid teenagers or racists saying that.

[HardTimes99]

112. There's "shedding blood for equality the hard way" and then there's

shedding blood for equality the REALLY hard way:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lewis_Moore

Not taking anything away from Lewis, just placing his sacrifices (and Moore's) on a spectrum of sacrifice.

[Cha]

131. Wow, the stupid has eaten their collective brain away on that one..

John Lewis and then there's st snowden who didn't get his Iceland gig

but, no worries he loves Russia and Putin now..

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

And hates the USA.. so how is this "paying the price"?

[freshwest]

144. Oh, FFS! The Cult is going crazy!

[ucrdem]

42. Trust the Guardian to twist the truth to suit their sinister purposes.

And to heartlessly exploit a greatly respected statesman.



Shameless liars but then I've known that for some time.

[sheshe2]

59. Their desperation to keep Snowden in hero status,

As an exalted example of truth is pathetic.

This worship has gone way past any level of sanity!

They twist whatever statement they can find to suit their needs!

You are correct, ucrdem, they are shameless liars!

[ucrdem]

62. They print any damn thing that suits their purposes

and backpeddle if they need to later. Nice to see them get their comeuppance so fast this time. Lewis really is a hero!

[sheshe2]

66. He certainly is ucrdem!

President Barack Obama presents a 2010 Presidential Medal of Freedom to Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., Tuesday, Feb. 15, 2011, during a ceremony in the East Room of the White House in Washington. (AP Photo/Carolyn Kaster)

[ucrdem]

70. Perfect pic!

[Cha]

132. I had forgotten that.. mahalo, for the pic of PBO giving John Lewis the P M of F, she!

[rhett o rick]

153. And what news media do you support? nm

[CakeGrrl]

51. Hiding behind keyboards emboldens the

inner jackass in many people. The cover of anonymity loosens inhibitions.

I've often wondered who would have the backbone to say what they say online if they were forced to say it to the person's face?

[totodeinhere]

73. Hiding behind keyboards? Aren't we all using keyboards? How else are we going

to make a comment here? Didn't you type your OP on a keyboard? Yet I am not going to accuse you of hiding behind a keyboard.

[geek tragedy]

90. I do hide behind a keyboard. I also have the basic decency

to not question John Lewis's integrity or courage.

[Vinnie From Indy]

74. Please provide a few links to where DU'ers were calling Lewis a "liar" and a "coward"

I'll wait.

Cheers!

[hfojvt]

85. not to call anybody out

but I made a joke

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3428372

it looks to me like reply #7 is a joke as well.

[geek tragedy]

91. See this thread for the

"Obama/NSA threatened Lewis, so he offered up a false retraction" theorists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3428337

The basic theory is that the administration twisted Lewis's arm, and he caved and agreed to lie.

[JustAnotherGen]

139. Thanks for the link

I had not read that thread. That's insane.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

77. Thank you! I grew up in Atlanta and he was my congressman at that time.

He is a personal hero of mine and of my family.

Trust me, John Lewis is no coward. Not now. Not before. Not ever!!!

And for those of you on either side of this issue who feel the need to exploit him and twist his words to bolster your side of the argument, well, John Lewis WILL NOT be used to suit your purposes. He is a higher human being than that. And he has more courage than any of us have in the 10 fingers we use to type on a keyboard to ridicule and criticize one another on a daily basis.

Stop using this man and exploiting his words for your own ideological ends! He will not be used by the political left or the right!!!

[HardTimes99]

78. I'm often on opposite sides from you on various policy disputes, but on this you and I

agree 100%.

IIRC, Occupy Atlanta also treated Lewis quite insultingly, another instance of petulant children not knowing their history.

[geek tragedy]

92. Lewis is one of the few human beings on the planet who

can persuade me by simply expressing his opinion.

[Just Saying]

103. K & R

[Union Scribe]

104. Thank goodness Meta is back

I mean it's in GD, but whatever. Is there an email list or something so I know when you post a new scolding of the mean old lefties?

[geek tragedy]

105. I'm not scolding any lefties.

No lefty would disparage John Lewis, especially over a matter as trivial as the behavior of a Ron Paul-loving libertarian.

[blackspade]

106. I'm not sure why everyone is loosing their minds over either

what the Guardian printed or Lewis' followup.

This is not a zero sum game.
The Guardian's story does not indicate to me that Lewis is a Snowden groupy. Nor does he condemn him outright.
He rather carefully notes that Snowden was following his conscience and would suffer whatever consequences that come from it.
His followup statement just states that he personally feels that Snowden broke the law and that he damaged international relations.

Neither the story or his statement make either the Guardian or Lewis villains.
The Guardian has done some excellent reporting on this issue and Lewis....he is a certified American hero.
The focus should be on the real villains: the folks that hatched and continue to run this domestic surveillance abomination in violation of the Constitution's Bill of Rights.

[geek tragedy]

108. Lewis supports Snowden's cause, but isn't the hugest fan of Snowden.

This is what a lot of people think, but for some reason people have to be pegged as Team NSA/Obama or Team Snowden/Putin.

[blackspade]

109. And I totally support Lewis, Grayson, and any others that are

willing to slam the doors on secret unwarranted surveillance on Americans.
That is an issue that should concern all of us no matter our political outlook.

This 'team' business reminds me of the juvenile Twilight groupies.

[totodeinhere]

116. According to Paul Lewis, John Lewis' office told him that they have no complaint about the article

itself. Paul Lewis claims that he quoted John Lewis verbatim.

https://twitter.com/PaulLewis/statuses/365503181490360322

Paul Lewis also suspects that there is "an element of back-peddling."

I don't think that suggesting that John Lewis back-peddled or walked back his original comments in any way impugns the character of John Lewis. As a politician John Lewis is subject to the same pressures that any other politician is.

https://twitter.com/PaulLewis/statuses/365503706709504000

[leveymg]

107. This whole thread is one big flame fest. DU's version of a B-29 raid on Tokyo. So is the original

thread.

You anti-Assange/Greenwald/Snowden keyboard warriors are inept at everything other than creating false issues and setting secondary fires. Pathetic.

[ucrdem]

110. Rep Lewis has called out the Guardian for grossly misrepresenting him. Called them out but good.

I'd say that's a big deal.

[leveymg]

111. I looked at the other thread and saw nothing but the usual suspects jump on one mildly misplaced

comment about Lewis being pressured to recant his original comment. That's probably not accurate, but Total Overkill, anyway.

It's like watching a feeding frenzy.

[izzybeans]

113. John Lewis knows oppression better than any armchair freedom fighter.

All of the pornoweb commenters that suggest otherwise have grown intellectually lazy while living off of the rights and privileges people like John Lewis fought hard to create for them.

[freshwest]

146. +1

[Oilwellian]

115. It's ridiculous

and appears desperate.

Asked in interview with the Guardian whether Snowden was engaged in an act of civil disobedience, Lewis nodded and replied:

"In keeping with the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence, in keeping with the teaching of Henry David Thoreau and people like Gandhi and others, if you believe something that is not right, something is unjust, and you are willing to defy customs, traditions, bad laws, then you have a conscience. You have a right to defy those laws and be willing to pay the price."

Lewis quoted the above, and the Guardian reported it as Lewis drawing an analogy. Lewis responded that it shouldn't be read to imply "rising to the level of" Gandhi or King, only to say that Gandhi and King defied bad law and Snowden believes he has done so as well and is following his conscience.

I don't think the person who titled this Guardian piece is the same person who interviewed Congressman Lewis. A copy editor is usually responsible for titling pieces published in newspapers, and they saw Thoreau and Gandhi mentioned and completely misinterpreted the context in which Lewis used them in. The pearl clutching in this thread is hysterical and isn't quite convincing enough to me that this is any big deal and borders on trolling.

What IS a big deal and I hope everyone reads and rereads this John Lewis quote:

Many of us have some real, real, problems with how the government has been spying on people.

[Cha]

133. Rep John Lewis is very clear in what he says on his gov website..

“News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.

“I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline.

“At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowden’s actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.”

http://johnlewis.house.gov/press-release/rep-john-lewis-no-praise-snowden

[Drunken Irishman]

127. John Lewis is a hero.

Anyone who attacks him loses all credibility.

[Scurrilous]

149. K & R

[WillyT]

154. Personally... I Loved What Lewis Had To Say...

Asked in interview with the Guardian whether Snowden was engaged in an act of civil disobedience, Lewis nodded and replied: "In keeping with the philosophy and the discipline of non-violence, in keeping with the teaching of Henry David Thoreau and people like Gandhi and others, if you believe something that is not right, something is unjust, and you are willing to defy customs, traditions, bad laws, then you have a conscience. You have a right to defy those laws and be willing to pay the price."

"That is what we did," he added. "I got arrested 40 times during the sixties. Since I've been in Congress I've been arrested four times. Sometimes you have to act by the dictates of your conscience. You have to do it."

When it was pointed out to Lewis that many in Washington believed that Snowden was simply a criminal, he replied: "Some people say criminality or treason or whatever. He could say he was acting because he was appealing to a higher law. Many of us have some real, real, problems with how the government has been spying on people."

He added: "We had that problem during the height of the civil rights movement. People spied on, and got information on Martin Luther King junior, and tried to use it against him, on the movement, tried to plant people within different organisations – that probably led to the destruction of some of those groups."

Link: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/07/john-lewis-civil-rights-edward-snowden

[Marr]

160. Aren't you the person who called Daniel Ellsberg a "wacko extremist ideologue"?

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3223706

I'll make a note of your hurt sensibilities.