Oprah Winfrey 'was victim of racism' in Switzerland

[Generic Other]

Profiled. An excellent example of white privilege in action. Because some people still don't believe it happens. Proof.

She said an assistant refused to serve her in an upmarket handbag shop in Zurich.

Winfrey, one of the world's richest women, was apparently told the bags on display were "too expensive" for her.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-23626340

[bunnies]

1. ha. Nothing is too expensive for Oprah.

What an idiot.

[avaistheone1]

84. Oprah belongs to the 1%

She couldn't get her hands on a $35,000 purse she wanted. BooHoo!

Who needs a freaking $35,000 purse?

Poor Oprah she had a day without grotesque, conspicuous consumption. BooHoo!

[avaistheone1]

185. Well

my friend it is you who are the idiot. How can anyone defend a woman, particularly Oprah, who is interested in a $35,000 purse? I don't dig anyone's grotesque, conspicuous consumption.

[Lancero]

221. So...

Your point is that because she was rich, the salesclerk racism is justified?

We aren't defending her right to buy expensive junk - We are defending her right to shop without being subject to racist remarks.

[avaistheone1]

222. The sales clerk served Oprah and showed her several purses.

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:45 PM - Edit history (1)

According to the shop's owner the clerk did not speak or understand English well and there was a misunderstanding regarding the $35,000 purse. The store evidently does not have a problem with racism as Tina Turner is a shop customer.

BTW years ago Oprah arrived at a Hermes shop after closing and demanded that they open its doors for her. When the shop refused to do so Oprah threw a hissyfit. So it appears she has a track record of expecting special treatment when she hobnobs among the elite to indulge her excesses.

I don't think many of us have the time or the emotional reservoirs to feel compassion for a billionaire who has a petty entanglement over viewing a $35,000 purse. Frankly I don't give a damn. Big boo hoo!

At a point in time when there is so much hurt and in shock over the Trayvon Martin verdict, and trying to discuss important issues about race, Oprah seems to be grandstanding about her slight and doing a cheesy job of it imo.

The racist card neither plays or echos well on this one

[BainsBane]

2. Wow. Nothing is too expensive for Oprah

That's insane.

[malaise]

5. Not insane

Just racist

[BainsBane]

6. Yes

[Solly Mack]

3. Ms. Winfrey should buy the shop and then personally fire the shop assistant.

[AZ Progressive]

12. +1

Though she's much more classy than that.

[Fla Dem]

68. Exactly my first thought. She should really do it. n/t

[CTyankee]

141. I think I would have written down my name, told the saleslady to look her up on google and

then left.

[JI7]

4. did they not recognize who she was or had never heard of her ?

i read a story about mick jagger buying a bunch of stuff and the store owner did not know who he was. i think she had just opened and didn't know who he was and looking at him didn't think he could afford anything.

[JVS]

9. Celebrity does not always export.

Our daytime talkshows don't air over there. How many Swiss talk show hosts or even just foreign language talk show hosts do you know of?

[kentauros]

57. I, for one, would easily recognize the show hosts

Richard Hammond, James May, Jeremy Clarkson, and Graham Norton, and they're nowhere near as wealthy (and well-known / well-loved) as Oprah

[JVS]

60. I asked about foreign language talk show hosts. All of those guys speak English and 3 appear...

on a single show that is popular here in the US. Would you recognize Stefan Raab or Harald Schmidt?

[kentauros]

61. I consider the "english" they speak as foreign

[CBGLuthier]

101. You know, it is one thing to be an ugly american

and another thing altogether to be proud of it. How is your French, Italian and German?

[kentauros]

106. Lighten up, Francis!

Everyone takes things so seriously around here. Look at my sigline for a clue

[whathehell]

158. As the OP illustrates, it's apparently not just Americans who are "ugly" these days.

For better or worse, English is considered a universal language these days and British Imperialism is at least as

responsible for that as the American variety. Just sayin'

[Ken Burch]

174. they'd consider the same of the "english" you speak.

[kentauros]

176. I've heard my NZ girlfriend imitate me,

and it's pretty funny

Really, y'all need to learn how to lighten up and realize when someone is making a joke. Or, just watch some Eddie Izzard for a clue

[Ken Burch]

184. I'd have gone with the "sarcasm" smilie in your previous post, then.

As written, it didn't exactly read as a joke.

[kentauros]

187. The raspberry smilie I used was good enough.

However, it is tiny, and likely easily missed by those looking for a fight first

[PDJane]

7. I walked into a Jewellry store behind a gentleman who looked rather ragged.........

The guy behind the counter refused to serve him. He was in character, and stayed in character, and the gentleman behind the counter was really unhappy....he pulled his hands out, and pointed down. "I want to see that one," he said. He had, on his hands, enough diamonds to stock the cabinet; rings, a bracelet.......the manager served him. I still don't know who he was, but I saw him in New York the year after on stage.

[HiPointDem]

40. My grandmother used to enjoy telling a story about how she & my grandfather went to a

local car dealership to buy a new car, which they had saved up for (they were farmers & g'pa also worked in a paper mill).

G'pa went in in his coveralls because he'd just got off work. I can't remember all the details, but it was basically the salesperson pegged them as poor looky-lous & was rude, suggested they couldn't afford the car they wanted to test drive, etc.

My main memory is that grandpa counted out the cash to pay for the entire car there in the office & what great satisfaction my grandmother got from recounting the story even decades later.

I can only imagine how much worse the class snobbism & judgmentalism would be in the kind of stores oprah would be likely to shop in.

[sammytko]

8. Didn't this happen to her before in Italy?

I think it was at Dior.

[bettyellen]

10. No, it was Pais- she complained the closed Hermes store wouldn't open for her....

slightly different. Most stores will stay if you are in the middle of a buy, but...

[joeybee12]

154. It was a having a private event and she showed up after the doors had closed...

But of course, Oprha being Oprah, made them come on her show and apologize to her.

[Recursion]

11. I kind of hope she buys the store

Just for kicks

[Number23]

13. But it's noT race, it's cLass!1!one"

[Number23]

14. Holy shit...

Her claims, made to a US television programme, come amid a political row over plans by some Swiss towns to ban asylum-seekers from some public places.

The BBC's Imogen Foulkes in Berne says human rights groups have likened the plans - which include banning asylum-seekers from swimming pools, playing fields and libraries - to apartheid.

Lord have mercy.

[Generic Other]

16. Europe is showing its true colors

It was cool when the sun never set in their empires and the brown skin peoples of the world did their bidding. Now, when the former oppressed class assert rights of citizenship they once traded their sovereignty for probably by force, the lamentations and gnashing of teeth of the oppressors is loud indeed.

[Gravitycollapse]

17. What a truly ignorant statement on your part.

[Generic Other]

20. Seriously?

You haven't heard of anders brevik for one? Laws against veils. Riots in France, Britain. Support for racist candidates. Fear of a black Europe. Openly racist, islamophobic...I am not the ignorant one here.

[Gravitycollapse]

22. I suggest you pick up a map. Maybe then you'll realize how much bigger Europe is...

than the few countries you referenced.

And, yes, I am aware of Anders Brevik. One murderous psychopath does not make the whole of Europe racist.

[Generic Other]

26. I suggest you read a history book

Or google racism in Europe. It's pretty much all over the map. ):

[Gravitycollapse]

27. "It's pretty much all over the map." - Is that a direct quote from your history book?

[Generic Other]

29. I am not doing your homework for you

I think it is not over generalizing to say most European countries struggle with citizens who have ugly racist attitudes. Laughing smilies do not change this fact. Europe is dealing with problems whose roots go back to the colonization of the western hemisphere, Africa and Asia. It's the end stages of conquest and empire.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

34. Seriously?

Have you heard of socialism, universal health care, the French Revolution and George Galloway?


Anders Brevik doesn't represent Europeans as a whole just like Timothy McVeigh doesn't represent American's as a whole. Anti Islam bigotry and racism exist here in the states also, but racism isn't the "true colors" of all Americans. You would be wise to put away the broad brush because it leaves you looking prejudiced and takes away from any validity your point might have had.

[Generic Other]

36. Historically Europe has run roughshod over the rights of colonized people

Broad brush? Please. I am not saying anything I wouldn't say about the US. The west struggles with race. The US is not alone in this regard. Europeans have viewed us as being rather backward about race for a long time. And we seemed to be. But in fact, they have been no better as it turns out. Sorry this offends you to hear.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

37. It doesn't offend me.

The ignorance of using broad brushes does. It wouldn't be acceptable to use a broad brush against Africans or Asians (both with their own race issues) and its not acceptable here.


Like I said, it's not ignoring the race issues that exist (we all know they do). It's the use of a completely ignorant and naive phrase like "true colors" that's the problem.


Racism isn't the "true colors" of Europe, just as terrorism isn't the "true colors" of the Arab world.

[Generic Other]

43. Too many people tend to downplay and deny racism

People who are treated everyday as Oprah was have a slightly different perspective than you do perhaps. You don't know or care about the struggles of minorities if the only thing you are worried about is that I might say something offensive about the dominant group destroying the planet today.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

51. How do you know what race I am?

You don't! You know nothing about me, stop assuming.

[Generic Other]

53. Listen to yourself

I know if you were a person of color you would not speak to me so dismissively for raising the issue if racism.

It's like gaydar. We just know.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

54. You don't know.

And I never dismissed racism. In fact I agreed with everything you said except the generalizations.


By the way, as someone who isn't "white" or straight you can apologize anytime. Your "gay-dar" and "race-dar" (?) must be a little off.

You shouldn't assume, it makes an ass out of you and....well you know the rest.

[woolldog]

74. Europe is every bit as racist (moreso i would argue) than the US.

Didn't used to be that way. The type of racism and the reason for it is different. But Europe has really gone backwards over the years as America has slowly moved forward. Look at what black soccer players in Europe have to deal with. Just disgraceful.

[whathehell]

45. That's good, because the "ignorance" of using broad brushes apparently doesn't extend to Americans

That's entirely "acceptable" here.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

50. Huh?

I'm not sure what you're saying. I certainly didn't use a broad brush to paint all Americans.

[whathehell]

56. Huh?

"I certainly didn't use a broad brush to paint all Americans".

No, but stick around -- You'll find that many on the board do.

[whathehell]

42. He probably is serious and sadly reflective of the knee-jerk Euro-reverence one often sees on DU

This pc, and entirely ignorant line is that "Only Americans are Racist"

[mr blur]

55. Actually, you *are* "the ignorant one here" nt

[Generic Other]

75. Defend racist attitudes if you like

I prefer to be honest about it. If that makes me ignorant, so be it.

[MADem]

30. There is some scary racism in some parts of Europe.

The Le Pen crew in France, for example.

In the UK, those English Defence League racists...assholes throwing bananas at a black parlimentarian in Italy, people in Hungary murdering Roma for their ethnicity...there's problems in most countries, often centering around economic migrants or asylum seekers. Turks in Germany were getting hassled a lot, there, too.

When economies come under strain, people look for some "other" to blame, and the easiest "other" is the one who sticks out by virtue of appearance.

[iemitsu]

88. Generic's post is rather well-informed, not ignorant.

You make a fool of yourself.

[bluestate10]

163. You obviously know nothing about Europe. The region is among the most racist in the world.

As the percentage of brown skinned people in each country increases, extreme actions are taking front and center. I England, buses are going around telling immigrants to leave.

[RedCappedBandit]

172. Nah.

[Number23]

19. There is a similar uproar in Australia. The government is *this close* to reneging on the

UN Refugee Convention that it signed something like 70 years ago.

They are about to start taking asylum seekers from Afghanistan, Iran and other countries and plunking them in Papua New Guinea, not even giving them the chance to touch Australian land. And Papua New Guinea has a really shocking record on rapes and other crimes. Needless to say that alot of people concerned with human rights have been outraged.

[Generic Other]

24. It happened in the 60s in the Pacific Northwest

Suddenly the Indians got their treaty rights back in court. Treaties they were forced to sign. Turns out they got the better end of the deal as the fish stocks dwindled. They were entitled to half. Boo hoo. A lot of whining after that.

[HiPointDem]

44. Non-seq. Indian fishing rights in the PNW have nothing to do with immigrants being turned away

from australia.

"It happened" = no, 'it' didn't. Indians weren't deported from the PNW.

[Generic Other]

48. But they had rights no one wanted to uphold

Just as apparently former colonials and asylum seeking refugees from third world countries have in Europe. If Australia is breaking its own laws those deported might also have these rights? Perhaps the courts will rule favorably?

[HiPointDem]

49. in response to a post describing how immigrants were being turned away from australia &

deported to new guinea, you said 'it happened in the pnw'.

but what happened in the pnw was the opposite: the boldt decision forced the government to honor the *express* treaty rights of the tribes involved.

[Generic Other]

52. Sorry this is what I meant to suggest

That the law supports those being deported, so they may obtain justice which will further incense those who want to close the borders.

Of course as politicians have made clear, laws mean nothing when they get in the way of objectives.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. Switzerland had an empire? When?

[Generic Other]

25. Haven't the Swiss a history of accepting asylum seekers?

I did think they were historically neutral.

[leftynyc]

41. If neutral

includes laundering the money stolen from the victims of nazis and then refusing for years to return that money (and art and jewelry) because the victims didn't have receipts, then, yeah, they were neutral.

[Generic Other]

46. True they did aid and abet

This is history too.

[MrScorpio]

215. Even when I was in Europe, I knew that Switzerland was not the most hospitable place to color

Unlike Holland or even Luxembourg, in my own experience, which are more welcoming places.

I'm not surprised that it happened to Oprah there.

[rhett o rick]

15. Poor Oprah. Why doesnt she give them a car or six. nm

[whathehell]

47. Judging by your sarcasm, it sounds as if you think racism toward Oprah is "okay" because she's rich.

Jealous much?

[rhett o rick]

71. Wrong again. Racism is never ok. Millions suffer from it, but I guess it's news when

it happens to Oprah.

I am not jealous of wealthy people, they cant buy happiness. I just dont understand hording wealth when we have children going to bed hungry.

[geek tragedy]

72. It's news because it shows how pervasive racism is--no amount of money and power

can stop a black person from being judged according to the color of their skin.

[iemitsu]

91. Thank you. That is the lesson/message in the story,

about Oprah's shopping incident, in Switzerland.
Racism is pervasive and active in the most "civilized" parts of the world. It is ugly and it is true.
Switzerland can join Florida on the list of places where black people will not want to vacation.

[Phentex]

134. That's it...

I find it sad that others want to make something else out of this.

[gollygee]

136. They're deflecting from the story about racism to the cost of the bag

Yes, it's stupid for a bag to cost that much, but THAT'S NOT THE POINT!

It's about the profiling! Focus, people!

[whathehell]

105. Really? Responding that she should "give them four or five cars" sounds non-empathic

and/or jealous....Maybe you should learn to express yourself better.

[rhett o rick]

150. I could always work to express myself better. But maybe you were looking for

something to be outraged about. My comment wasnt about race. My point was that when shit happens to the 1% that happens every day to the masses, it's a big friggin deal.

[whathehell]

156. Yes, you could. If you did, I expect you'd encounter fewer people

you imagine to be "looking for something to be outraged about".

[RedCappedBandit]

175. " My point was that when shit happens to the 1%..."

To be fair, I think that's a valid point as well. So is the message behind the OP, IMO.

[RudynJack]

18. Oprah seems to have bad luck

in Europe when visiting Tina Turner. The last time, at a Paris shop, she was visiting Tina and wanted to pick up a gift. She was in Switzerland for Tina's wedding.

[woolldog]

31. It's not bad luck.

It's the kind of common, everyday racism that minorities deal with routinely. The only difference is we hear about it because it's Oprah.

[Generic Other]

38. +1

The only time I ever get called names on DU it is always in discussions about race. Ok to profile kids with skittles, but damn don't insinuate that the west struggles with imperialism, ethnocentrism, feelings of superiority or hostility toward people of color. Because you are stereotyping white people if you say these things. Can't win this argument because I am 50% non-white which means I am incapable of critically assessing white people's motives or actions toward minorities.

[iemitsu]

113. Actually, it means that you are the issue that the west is struggling with.

And some don't like to be reminded of it.
Seems to me that the circumstances of your birth enhance your (potential) ability to participate in, observe, and objectively evaluate group behavior, especially when it comes to the two groups where you have intimate contact/knowledge, not negate that ability.
I suspect, those who dismiss your arguments, are themselves, conflicted by the issues you highlight, especially if the dismissal is based on your ancestry.
You are clearly right in suggesting that the west is struggling with issues created by past policy and action. We are an evolving society and nothing, from our past, is ever entirely left behind.
Yet, I'm not sure white people can win that argument with white people either. They are just too defensive (either embarrassed by how they might have personally profited from being part of the dominant race/culture/society or ignorant of how they might have benefited, or been harmed, by that reality).
They accuse you of stereotyping (a bad thing) when you use generalizations (a tool, derived from statistics and used by social scientists, to describe trends, attitudes, behaviors, etc. that are manifest in populations), in an attempt to nullify your argument.
You are labeled one who uses stereotypes (a racist), an outsider with suspect motives, and curtly dismissed or expelled, swatted like a mosquito.
Seems to me, the whole process validates your initial thoughts about race and the inheritance of imperialism.

[Generic Other]

147. Did you see what people called the president in Arizona yesterday?

Obama foes at one point sang, "Bye Bye Black Sheep," a derogatory reference to the president's skin color, while protesters like Deanne Bartram raised a sign saying, "Impeach the Half-White Muslim!"
Many on both sides wore red, white and blue and carried small flags.

<snip>

“He needs to go back to where he came from because obviously, he is a liar,” she said. “I am not racist. I am part Indian. Obama’s half Black, half White.”

“He’s 47 percent Negro,” shouted Ron Enderle, a 77-year-old Chandler resident who said that he and his son served as Marines and his grandson is currently serving in the Marines.

<snip>

“We have gone back so many years,” she said. “He’s divided all the races. I hate him for that.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/07/1229633/-Racists-Go-Wild-Outside-Obama-Speech-in-Arizona?detail=email

It is not just this minor incident with Oprah or the much more upsetting outcome of the Trayvon Martin case, not even SCOTUS overturning voting rights, it's the fact that the nastiness is ongoing and ever present. Even the president can't escape it. And so easily seen by many while others seem blind to it even angry at any who bring it up. I can't make excuses for or defend this sort of behavior. Someone on one of these threads expressed hope that most young people have rejected the racist attitudes of their elders.

BTW. 47 percent Negro? What the hell did that mean???? Was he measuring for some reason?

[iemitsu]

182. Yes, this is telling evidence.

I thought, for years, that attitudes toward race were changing for the better in America, but with the election of President Obama, overt racism, once again, seems common place. Apparently, I was wrong about improving attitudes.
I too, watched the clips from the latest Big Brother show with shock and dismay. The idea that the blonde from Texas would be so verbally hateful is horrible enough, but the fact that two or three others, in the house, seem supportive of her hateful comments and behavior is what really saddens me.
One young, dumb person from Texas displaying such bigoted disdain for her ethnic and gay housemates can be understood (she was raised in a bad environment, etc.) but three other young people, not from the same community joining the Texan, or at least being supportive of her ugly behavior suggests a level of tolerance toward racism, in young-folk, that I did not believe existed.
I once thought racism would die with the old folk. If it does it won't happen in my lifetime.

[RudynJack]

188. Oprah doesn't deal with "routine racism"

My point was a semi-humorous observation that she encounters shit like this when she's visiting Tina Turner in Europe.

That racism exists is not in question. But let's remember that Tina Turner, Ella Fitzgerald,Nina Simone, and countless other artists have moved abroad because their destinations were LESS racist than the US. That a shop clerk didn't recognize her is not necessarily a salient indication of endemic racism.

The Paris incident is even less important. She wanted a clerk to open the store after they closed. Maybe Oprah isn't a victim of racism as much as she's an entitled rich person who wants special treatment because of her wealth.

That said, I have frequently defended Oprah. I find most of the hatred of her both racist and misogynist. And this case is clearly racist - the Paris situation, not so much.

I know an extremely wealthy woman who experienced the same thing in an art gallery in a very rich town in California. She's white. She was wearing jeans and a t-shirt, and the clerk did the same thing Oprah's clerk did to her. This woman could've bought the entire gallery without a wince.

Clerks can be dicks - it's not always because they're racist.

[Spider Jerusalem]

21. This is not as troubling as the article on asylum-seekers in Switzerland linked from that page

Some Swiss towns plan to keep asylum-seekers away from public places such as swimming pools, playing fields and libraries, in a move human rights groups say is racist.

The curbs are aimed at preventing tensions with residents, officials say.

Asylum-seekers are to be housed in special centres, mainly former army barracks, and the first one has opened in the town of Bremgarten.

(snip)

Roman Staub, mayor of the town of Menzingen, said asylum-seekers should be banned from "sensitive areas" such as the vicinity of a school. "This is certainly a very difficult area, because here asylum-seekers could meet our schoolchildren - young girls or young boys," he said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23599502

[Generic Other]

28. It seems out of character for the Swiss

It' s more about clash of culture and economic decline maybe. I don't know why there's so much denial about it.

[woolldog]

32. Maybe not so out of character......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minaret_controversy_in_Switzerland

"The minaret controversy in Switzerland refers to construction of Mosque minarets, which has been subject to legal and political controversy in Switzerland during the 2000s and a Swiss referendum regarding this issue. In a November 2009 referendum, a constitutional amendment banning the construction of new minarets was approved by 57.5% of the participating voters."

[woolldog]

33. .....

?zz=1

[Generic Other]

81. The rise of these far right groups in Europe

should alarm us all. The US is already headed way down this path and the Europeans have been down it before. When do we evolve beyond this crap?

[PotatoChip]

39. That would be so infuriating.

People constantly making assumptions about you (such as "you can't afford this&quot based on the color of your skin.

It sounds as if Oprah just let the whole thing go, from what I read at the link. I doubt I would have been anywhere near as gracious as her, but that just seems to be how she rolls.

[Octafish]

58. Does Switzerland take her money into its banks?

Is there no just-us there?

[CBGLuthier]

59. Schwarzfahrer

This little film won the 1994 Oscar for best short.

[iemitsu]

220. A wonderful little film.

thanks for sharing.

[mainer]

62. The truly rich often dress the scruffiest

Have seen that up here in Maine, where we have a lot of moguls who like to dress down and drive trucks. The guys wearing the Rolexes are often the wannabes who are over their heads in credit card debt.

[Javaman]

63. Oprah should have bought the store, fired the employee then sold it back to the owners. nt

[gollygee]

64. It could have happened to any POC people claim isn't discriminated against because they are rich

Michelle Obama, Beyonce, Jay-Z, Will Smith. Any one of them can be a victim of racism. And to someone who said rich people sometimes dress scruffy, I often dress scruffy and no one anywhere has ever suggested I might not be able to afford anything. My husband dresses down as well. I remember when we bought our last car, I had been doing lawn work and my husband had been doing something messy in the garage, and I was worried about shopping for a car when we looked so messy and horrible. But no, the salesman assumed we could impulse buy a sports car on top of the car we were planning to get. "You work hard. You deserve something fun to drive around in when you don't need to take a family car someplace." He didn't know where my husband worked or how hard he worked. Maybe he assumed our filthy clothes were filthy due to work? But even that assumption is privileged. If you're white, you're dirty because you work so hard. People of color don't get that particular assumption if they're filthy.

[suffragette]

65. And the owner's 'apology' doubles down

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130809/oprah-winfrey-victim-of-racism-in-zurich-luxury-boutique#disqus_thread

Blick said the incident occurred in the chic Trois Pommes store whose owner Trudie Götz was also a guest at Turner’s wedding.

She apologized for her assistant’s behaviour, saying there had been “a misunderstanding between her and Oprah”.

The bag cost 35,000 francs and was placed behind a security panel, the paper said.

“We don’t have any facial recognition here,” Blick quoted Götz as saying.



"Misunderstanding"? Sounds to me like Oprah understood exactly what was going on.

"Facial recognition"?
So, the owner is implying this would have been ok with her if the assistant was treating some unknown woman of color in this manner. Hey, Götz. That would still be racist.

[closeupready]

66. What can I say without sounding nasty.

"Billionaire king-maker is dissed on a bling shopping trip! Film at 11:00!"

[Generic Other]

90. White guy acquitted for profiling and killing poor black kid with skittles

What can I say without sounding nasty?

[closeupready]

93. Okay, then see post #86 - that sums up how I feel pretty well.

Thanks.

[Generic Other]

95. So you support this thesis from post #86

"Racism is very real, and it's very wrong, and it shouldn't be tolerated. But I just don't have much sympathy for Oprah on this."

So a rich black woman who experiences racism sort of deserves it? Or it probably wasn't racism at all. Because everyone knows African Americans always play the race card. She shouldn't have been in that store in the first place. How dare she dress like that. Uppity woman.

Oh sorry. Not a rape thread...

[closeupready]

97. A rich black woman who spends post-tax annual salary

for a typical worker bee in the US on a single purse and then complains that the clerk discriminated against her on account of race is not someone whose complaints are met with much, if any, sympathy amongst those who would be grateful to make $40,000/year, let alone those who are long-term unemployed or who are raising children who need medical care and can't get it.

Sorry if your thread failed to ferret out Zimmerman-type racists and instead backfired, but there you have it. Not taking back a single solitary thing in any of my posts here.

[iemitsu]

130. I'm ususally not one to defend the uber-rich,

but discrimination, based on race, is not okay. Not even if the one being harmed is super rich.
Sure Oprah can survive this incident, she can probably even determine much about the future career of the clerk, who suggested she couldn't afford a purse.
That's not the point.
The point is that non-white people, even rich ones, are treated differently (and as something less than equal) by exclusive stores in Switzerland, and by extension reveals (or confirms other evidence suggesting the same) racist or xenophobic aspects of Swiss society.
Many of those, "who would be grateful to make $40,000/year", or "those who are long-term unemployed or who are raising children who need medical care and can't get it.", are also ethnic minorities, whose lives are made more difficult by racist attitudes and behaviors.
I imagine those people do have some sympathy for Oprah, since it suggests that no amount of money and talent can help one escape the nasty effects of racism. If she can't get there, they can't either.
Besides, Oprah is not the worst rich person. She worked to earn her wealth, it was not given to her by well-to-do parents. And her wealth is not built on exploitation.

[whathehell]

167. Thanks.

You've explained it well.

[iemitsu]

186. It dumbfounds me that some are so obtuse

when it comes to race issues in American (or in this case, Swiss) society.

[whathehell]

194. Yes, in this case I'm not sure what their problem is, but since you seem

to be possessed of more patience than I, I've referred a few to your post #130

as a means of education.

[iemitsu]

208. I'm not really a patient sort but it drives me crazy

when people confuse a side issue with the main point, in an argument.
The fact that the dumb purse cost way too much, or that Oprah could afford 100 of them, is not the point of this story. Those may be stories in themselves, and they may be worthy of discussion, but they are not what the OP on this thread is about.
Admittedly, I too, smile when someone rich and powerful is inconvenienced or made to wait in line like the rest of us. If what inconvenienced them is part of life that we all contend with, but bigotry and racism are not leveled at everyone and they are not simply inconveniences, that must be dealt with as an integral part of modern life.
Oprah may be rich and powerful but she has not escaped the sting of racism (this example proves it but I'm certain there are many other examples in her earlier life) so that she "deserves" to be treated that way. She does not need that lesson.
George Bush or Dick Cheney might learn something from an experience like this but they will never have to confront such circumstances.
I'm flattered that you would suggest my post was both accurate and clear, and that you would recommend it to others.
Thank you.

[gollygee]

133. If even Oprah is getting profiled like this

it's also happening to black people who make $40,000 a year, those who make $20,000 a year, and those who make every amount more and less than that. The point is that it is happening to everyone, and even extreme wealth, fame, and power doesn't keep it from happening.

Yes, it's stupid that anyone even makes purses that cost that much. My personal rule is that my purse can't be worth more than the contents.

[Phentex]

138. My husband and I were just talking about purses this morning...

Bags were being checked at the Falcons game because of new rules about what they allow into the stadium. Apparently no bags or large purses are allowed anymore. A woman was upset because someone gave her checked bag to the wrong person and she was out a $300 purse!

I told him the worse part would be finding another purse I liked - not because of how much the purse cost because I am too cheap.

If *I* were Oprah, I'd have one made just for me with all the right compartments I like and a place for my phone, not too big, not too small etc.

[gollygee]

142. Good point!

If you're going to spend $38,000 on a purse, it should at the very least be made to order after someone has studied how you use a purse.

[lame54]

67. She should have bought the shop and fired him

[elehhhhna]

69. Perhaps they'd met her before and it was personal vs racism

Off camera she is a very rude woman with a ridiculously high opinion of herself. Flame away.

[kwassa]

177. as you project your own issues with absolutely no facts to support them.

I certainly find your post valuable.

Well, no, I don't.

[elehhhhna]

183. evidently you are not acquainted with her or any of her employees

but thanks for playing

she was quite a doozy ten years ago and is now insufferable

[hfojvt]

70. yeah, sure, what an excellent example

that poor, poor victim. I shall be crying crocodile tears for her as this privileged white guy cleans toilets tonight. I know that I have never suffered like Oprah. She's a victim I tells ya. A victim.

[Generic Other]

78. Seems like no example would be good enough to illustrate profiling to you

because you save your crocodile tears for real "white" victims.

How about President Obama then? He has been slammed by racist crap for two terms now. And it never stops:

A southern senator said that his constituents disliked Barack Obama because the President seemed “exotic,” Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) told the editorial board of the Des Moines Register on Wednesday....

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/07/southern-senator-my-people-dislike-obama-because-he-is-too-exotic/


Looks like others are starting to notice too.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) told KNPR radio Friday that he hopes Republicans' ongoing opposition to President Obama is driven by "substance" and not race.

"My counterpart, Mitch McConnell, said at the the beginning of the presidency of Barack Obama that he had one goal -- and that is to defeat Obama and make sure he wasn't re-elected. And that's how they legislate in the Senate," he said. "It was really bad. And we're now seven months into this second term of the president's and they haven't changed much."

"It's been obvious that they're doing everything they can to make him fail," Reid said. "And I hope, I hope -- and I say this seriously -- I hope that's based on substance and not the fact that he's African-American."

National Republican Senatorial Committee spokesman Brad Dayspring immediately called Reid's remarks "offensive" and "insane."

http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/reid-i-hope-gop-opposition-to-obama-is

[gollygee]

79. The comparison would be between her and a white billionaire

or between you and a black guy who cleans toilets. Not between you and a black billionaire.

[Generic Other]

82. Imagining Donald Trump taking no for an answer

in a high end toupee shop.

[iemitsu]

132. Trump's toupee did not come from a high end shop.

[gollygee]

137. I hope not

I hope $38,000 would buy a better one.

But I bet if he walked into a high end shop, he'd be able to look at any damn toupee he wanted to look at.

[iemitsu]

144. Of course he would.

He has poor fashion sense, is often boorish in public, insensitive toward others, and white, Trump would be welcome in any shop in the Swiss Alps.
It is a sad reality that Oprah is not treated the same.

[hfojvt]

157. of course it would be

because the whole point of "white privilege" is to ignore the 90% of the population which is more privileged than me, and YET, STILL call me privileged.

Yeah, the black guy I work with - he's doing better than me.

His oldest son graduate high school last year - I have no kids.
We applied for the same job - he got it.
Oh, and I have a Master's degree and he doesn't, yet we both are privileged to work as janitors. And our female supervisor - she is a high school drop out.

But I am a white male - just like Bill Gates, so I am privileged to be king of the world.

[gollygee]

165. No, that's not what it means

It doesn't mean you're as privileged as Bill Gates. It means you have white privilege, but you don't have wealth privilege. Bill Gates obviously has a great deal of wealth privilege, as does Oprah Winfrey. Oprah Winfrey does not have the white privilege that Bill Gates has. She has a great deal of wealth privilege, which you do not have.

[duffyduff]

73. I'll bet she wouldn't suffer discrimination in setting up a Swiss bank account. n/t

[KansDem]

80. She could finance a movie, "The Color Green"

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:32 AM - Edit history (1)

That color knows no discrimination!

[hedgehog]

76. Oprah Winfrey is a very talented person who worked her way to the top,

but a handbag that costs $35,000? And if Ms. Winfrey didn't buy it, someone else did!

[KansDem]

77. As a billionaire, she might have some of her wealth in secret Swiss tax havens...

She could threaten to pull out all her money, but she probably thought, "You're not worth it! Tomorrow I can be sipping Mai Tais on the beaches of Hawaii and you'll still be working this dead-end job!"

[Generic Other]

87. Does this take the sting out of racism?

I don't really watch Big Brother but have seen some clips of the racist behavior playing out on the show because it has made the news lately. There are some shocking clips of a beauty contestant from Texas mocking an African American woman as "Aunt Jemima" and muttering that she should go cook pancakes. Making slant eyes at the Asian contestant and telling her to go "cook some rice..." Speaking to her in pigeon. Throwing the Af. Am. girl's mattress on the floor...

Do you think that anyone gets over this type of treatment? The girl (very light skinned) looked like she might start an altercation with the blonde one, and the darker guy physically carried her off over his shoulder to prevent it. In the room where they could speak privately, they fell apart. It was shocking to watch. The poor guy tried to explain why he couldn't defend her by attacking the racist ones while she expressed her frustration at his helplessness. You could see his efforts to control the rage bubbling up so deep within him. Defend the sister and get lynched by the others for attacking the blonde racists. Obviously the effects of racism are cumulative and sting more sharply each time.

The host of the show Julie Chen -- clearly successful as a celebrity hostess of a popular show, said the comments took her back to her childhood in Brooklyn. She didn't know people still said these kind of things or thought it was socially acceptable. Chen was on the Voice where she spoke about how painful it was to watch the clip and how angry it made her. So, in spite of the fact Oprah can sip mai tais on the beach and not care, like most other people of color I know, there is a hidden bruised place deep in the heart where these kind of memories linger and join others just like them or worse.

[eilen]

83. I think it was racist to assume the woman cannot afford a handbag based upon her skin color.

but I also think it is immoral to spend that much money on a handbag.

Basically I think they are both horrible people.

[avaistheone1]

85. I think it is grotesque that a person of Oprah's character

is interested in a $35,000 purse. What the clerk did is wrong, but I think Oprah's consumption needs are wrong too.

[Generic Other]

89. This is a reasonable stance on your part

I agree with you, although she is entitled to spend as she likes and does support charities as far as I know. A different discussion however (and not a bad one to have either). It is the racism, the profiling of a well-known black woman I was focusing on. And the fact that we learn from the same article that the Swiss are considering instituting apartheid-type laws preventing legal refugees from using public facilities.

[gollygee]

114. Fair enough

Although I'd rather rich people piss their money away on stupid things like this than hoard it. At least get it back in circulation. And she does give a lot of money to charity as well.

[bluestate10]

168. Valid point. Many people could afford things that they will never buy because owning it

offends them. Oprah could use the $35,000 to relieve the stress on a few homeowners and allow them to refinance to save their homes.

[AndyA]

86. Not sure how much sympathy I have for Ms. Winfrey on this

A $40,000 purse? Really? Who the hell needs a $40,000 purse?

I also question how well known Oprah is in Switzerland. I'm sure I wouldn't recognize most celebrities from another country--how well known is Oprah over there? Some working people probably don't watch television much, so it's very possible they had no idea who she was.

I'm not saying it wasn't racism, but with a language barrier on top of everything else, is it possible they just had no idea what Oprah wanted, or who she was?

If the clerk refused to let Oprah look at the purse because she was black, yes, that's an issue, and it's wrong.

But the other issue here is this is an example of the haves and the have nots. How many women don't even have a purse? Or food on the table, or a roof over their head, or medicine for their children? How many people could that $40,000 help?

I'll never understand how these hyper-wealthy people continue to drum up sympathy for their problems. I'm sorry, but their problems pale in comparison to those of many others. Oprah will never have to worry about being able to afford food, clothing, shelter, medical care, or anything else. She's one of the lucky ones who will never have to fight these battles.

If I had the kind of money Oprah has, instead of worrying about wasteful excesses, I'd rather spend the money to help abused animals left on the street to die. I see them all the time on Facebook--set on fire and left to die a painful death--but somehow they survived, and organizations are begging for money to help them. A kitten that a group of teenagers tried to drown in a bucket of dirty motor oil. The dog hit by a car and left to die, whose broken bones healed incorrectly so it can't hardly walk and drags its back end behind it, so weak it can barely move because it's starving to death. The single moms all across the world struggling to care for their children. People dying because they can't afford medical attention. People going to bed at night hungry because they haven't eaten in days.

Racism is very real, and it's very wrong, and it shouldn't be tolerated. But I just don't have much sympathy for Oprah on this. If she wants that purse, she can have one of the many people who work for her get it in her hands in a matter of hours, I'll bet. But what about the mother watching a child die because she can't get medicine or food?

I like Oprah, and I know she's done a lot of good for a lot of people over the years. But $40,000 for a purse that she'll use a couple of times then stash in her closet? Seems rather wasteful to me. $40,000 for a purse? Really? Was it 24K gold? I lost a lot of respect for Oprah over this.

I'm sure more details will be revealed about this, now that's it's become a worldwide story, and if the clerk really did act the way they did due to the color of Oprah's skin, that needs to be addressed as there should be zero tolerance for that.

If I were Oprah, I would have been embarrassed to even mention it, knowing how many are hurting today. In the big scheme of things, that money could have done a lot of good for people and animals. Indulgence is one thing, but c'mon...really, Oprah?

[closeupready]

92. Yes, this sums up my feelings much better than I put into words.

It should be its own post for a new thread. Cheers.

[Generic Other]

94. It's not about the damn purse

"Racism is very real, and it's very wrong, and it shouldn't be tolerated. But I just don't have much sympathy for Oprah on this." You said this. Own it.

You identify something as wrong and then add to that it should not be tolerated. Bravo. Then you qualify this principled stance with the word, "but" and then go on to say that you have little sympathy for this woman being treated this way, in fact you even question whether she was even being profiled. Instead., you ignore the evidence and grind your ax at her for frivolous consumption. A RED HERRING.

As for the expensive purse, I agree with you it is a WASTE, but do you think that means she deserves a comeuppance of some sort for daring to be uppity enough to ask to look at one in a store? Maybe she just wanted to look at it too, to mock anyone who would buy it, to see what was so hot about such a product.

When I went to Vegas, I browsed through stores with pricetags so high they gave me nosebleeds. I actually kind of enjoyed touching stuff with my clumsy lower class all-thumbs hands. Imagining myself as a moo in a China shop. "Oopsy daisy."

[Phentex]

96. Plus, how do we know Oprah even knew the price?

I doubt they hang great big tags on such delicate items but how would I know?

Also, why no disdain for the shop owner selling such a high priced item?

All of that is beside the point. Racism is wrong. Period.

[closeupready]

98. Does it hurt that bad that your thread is a failure?

[Generic Other]

115. Oh bless your heart

Does it hurt that bad that some people think many whites are racists who profile people of color?

[AndyA]

104. When I want someone to interpret what I write and twist it around, I'll let you know.

Until then, stop it.

Nowhere did I say racism should be tolerated, and what you quoted most definitely DOES NOT say that.

Get back to me when it's about an impoverished black mother who scrapes together the rent money to keep a roof over her kid's head, and the landlord refuses it because he doesn't want black people in the building.

[Generic Other]

117. I simply repeated your words

Part of communication involves the hearer interpreting what has been said. I said it was clear you had emphatically stated that racism should not be tolerated. You qualified this statement by making an exception in Oprah's case because of her spending habits. And you questioned whether she was profiled at all. If I have mistakenly misrepresented you, please correct me.

[AndyA]

129. Part of communication also involves the person reading not interjecting their own thoughts

into what was written.

I clearly stated my feelings on racism several times, yet you chose to twist them to create a problem.

That problem is yours, not mine. I've seen some of your other responses in this thread, and you aren't going to have a respectful conversation with anyone if you continue to respond in the manner you have.

I'll participate in other threads where the OP appreciates and respects those who contribute, and doesn't twist things to create a controversy where there is none.

[gollygee]

107. +1

"As for the expensive purse, I agree with you it is a WASTE, but do you think that means she deserves a comeuppance of some sort for daring to be uppity enough to ask to look at one in a store?"

[cherokeeprogressive]

99. "I was in Zurich the other day..."

Oh. The horror.

[Dreamer Tatum]

100. I don't think I buy this at all.

Are we supposed to believe that Oprah just padded in to a store and asked to see a bag and was swatted down?
Give me a break. She travels with an entourage, at least one of whom is responsible for clearing riff raff out of her
way (example: the Hermes incident) so she can shop without having to make eye contact with a non-celebrity or
a non-billionaire.

I bet the way this went down is something like this: one of her entourage went to a store to scout it out, to see
if it was worth Her Highness to make an appearance. THAT person was disrespected, and the story has grown in
legend to Oprah being disrespected.

That seems more credible to me. Notice I am not doubting that SOME racism accurred.

[Generic Other]

119. So you are calling Oprah a liar now too?

Because she revealed the information on a tv show.

Is your speculation based on some knowledge of Oprah's past dishonest behavior?

Again, separate from the celebrity here, and focus on the person being judged by her skin color.

[markiv]

214. she has a profound sense of self importance

to think the entire television audience needs to know that someone on earth in an ultra snobby shop didnt properly acknowledge her greatness

[closeupready]

224. The clerk today is reportedly calling Oprah a liar -

>>'Oprah's a liar': Sales assistant in Swiss racist handbag row denies telling TV host that she could not view item because she couldn't afford it

'She looked at a frame behind me. Far above there was the 35,000 Swiss franc crocodile leather bag.

'I simply told her that it was like the one I held in my hand, only much more expensive, and that I could show her similar bags.

'It is absolutely not true that I declined to show her the bag on racist grounds. I even asked her if she wanted to look at the bag.<<

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2389798/Oprah-Winfrey-branded-liar-Swiss-sales-assistant-racist-handbag-row.html

[Phentex]

135. Why would she do this?

She doesn't seem like the type of person who would purposely damage a small store owner's reputation for the hell of it.

[PotatoChip]

148. The store owner admits it.

From post #65: (Bolding mine)

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130809/oprah-winfrey-victim-of-racism-in-zurich-luxury-boutique#disqus_thread

Blick said the incident occurred in the chic Trois Pommes store whose owner Trudie Götz was also a guest at Turner’s wedding.

She apologized for her assistant’s behaviour, saying there had been “a misunderstanding between her and Oprah”.

The bag cost 35,000 francs and was placed behind a security panel, the paper said.

“We don’t have any facial recognition here,” Blick quoted Götz as saying.

[Democracyinkind]

202. Absoluetely not.

She apologized for the incident, calling it a misunderstanding, clearly stating that the italian employee accused by Oprah had no racist intentions. Tina Turner is a regular customer of the store and a friend of the owner that attended the wedding herself. I doubt that Tina Turner would be friends with and customer of someone that employs openly racist foreigners with shoddy english skills.

[PotatoChip]

205. Absolutely. Oprah had indeed been in the store.

The post below was the one I was replying to with the article. Context is your friend.

100. I don't think I buy this at all.

Are we supposed to believe that Oprah just padded in to a store and asked to see a bag and was swatted down? Give me a break. She travels with an entourage, at least one of whom is responsible for clearing riff raff out of her way (example: the Hermes incident) so she can shop without having to make eye contact with a non-celebrity or a non-billionaire.

I bet the way this went down is something like this: one of her entourage went to a store to scout it out, to see if it was worth Her Highness to make an appearance. THAT person was disrespected, and the story has grown in legend to Oprah being disrespected.

[Democracyinkind]

206. Sorry, misread your exchange...

Just wanted to point out that the ahop doesn't admit to any wrongdoing.

[PotatoChip]

207. No problem.

I've done my share of misreading things too.

[doc03]

102. I don't really see the racism claim. I am sure if I pulled into a Rolls Royce dealership

in my 2006 Toyota pickup they wouldn't be letting me take a Rolls out for a test drive either. Has nothing to do with race.

[gollygee]

109. What?

How did she do anything parallel to pulling up in a Rolls Royce dealership in a 2006 Toyota pickup?

Also, I've looked at expensive cars after driving up in cheap cars and much older than that, and I've been taken very seriously as a buyer.

[doc03]

111. Come on a $35000 purse, if I was a salesperson I sure as hell wouldn't

be handing it out to just anyone that walked into the store if I was responsible for it.

[gollygee]

112. Whom would you hand it to?

It's your job to sell it? What about Oprah Winfrey would make you assume she wasn't able to buy the purse more than anyone else who went in the store other than her skin color? Why wouldn't you assume anyone bothering to go into the store wants to and is able to buy the purse? And why would you bother selling something you assume no one would be able to buy? Whom would you let see the purse?

[doc03]

120. I doubt the clerk had any idea it was Oprah, who would think Oprah is just going to

walk into a store in Switzerland all by herself. May be she wasn't wearing clothing that
suggested she could buy such an item. If you were working there and a guy dressed in
jeans with holes and a faded old dirty t shirt walked in and wanted to check out a Rollex would you
hand one over to him?

[gollygee]

121. Why would you think she was wearing jeans with holes and a faded old dirty t-shirt

My guess is she was dressed like everyone else there. She has dark skin. That's what's different, and that's the point.

[Phentex]

128. Have you ever seen Brad Pitt?

He could walk in dressed as you describe and buy that purse for his wife.

[Generic Other]

122. Gollygee

YOU


ME

[Phentex]

126. Bingo!

[doc03]

116. That is what makes people like Oprah look rediculous

when they blame racism every time someone looks at them crosseyed. That's like Rosie ODonnal thinking nobody
should own a gun when her body guards are armed to the teeth.

[gollygee]

118. You keep saying things that make no sense

Someone didn't look at her cross-eyed. Someone refused to let her look at a purse they had for sale and must have let people look at if they wanted to sell it, because they assumed just by looking at her that she couldn't afford it, and historically that is often enough caused by race that it's probably the reason here as well.

And how is this at all parallel to Rosie O'Donnel thinkning nobody should own a gun but having armed bodyguards? That doesn't seem at all similar. Oprah was wanting to buy a purse - she wasn't upset about being racially profiled while she was also racially profiling people.

[RZM]

152. It's funny you bring up O'Donnell

Years ago she told a similar and unintentionally hilarious story about not getting great service at a restaurant in Italy. She explained to the proprietor her celebrity status in the US and the owner apparently still didn't care. I got the impression that Rosie had difficulty understanding why somebody wouldn't want to give her special treatment.

That's not the same as what happened here, but it did make me think of it.

[whathehell]

159. You know what makes people look "rediculous"?

People who call themselves "doc" and then can't spell ridiculous....Sorry.

[bluestate10]

169. So you know how Oprah was dressed? Your post, on it's merits, is an incredible piece

of blind assumption.

[Sunlei]

103. I didn't know the Swiss were "banning asylum seekers from some public places"

swimming pools, playing fields, library?

Looks like the citizens have their "you don't belong here" plan ready to go.

[Generic Other]

124. But no racism according to DUers on this thread

Just me upset that I failed somehow for daring to suggest that profiling and racism is an issue in this story.

[hughee99]

108. A lesson in how to be the victim of racism AND not get any sympathy at the same time.

They assumed just because I'm not white that I can't afford to piss away tens of thousands on a handbag that costs about $10 to make. I'm FUCKING OPRAH WINFREY!!!

Yes, the guy who didn't get a job and the guy who got arrested because of their skin color are now saying to each other, "Did you hear about Oprah? It's just awful the way they treated her!".

[gollygee]

110. It's an example

If a billionaire is the victim of racism, you can damn well be assured that every single black person there is is also a victim of racism.

Edited to add geek tragedy's explanation because it's better than mine: "It's news because it shows how pervasive racism is--no amount of money and power can stop a black person from being judged according to the color of their skin."

[hughee99]

139. I agree, if Oprah is treated this way in this store by this salesperson

it's pretty likely every other black person is treated the same in that store (and given that there's no sample of a white American billionaire tourist being treated differently, it's possible that the sales person is equally snotty to women, or tourists, or Americans, not JUST black people). This is normally the sort of thing that one would dismiss as "first world problems" though.

The REAL difference between this and the racism many experience day to day, and the reason I think this may garner less understanding from those who experience racism on a daily basis, is recourse. As bad as racism is, what makes it even worse is the lack of recourse most victims have. Get stopped and frisked for being black? What power does one person or even small group of people have to do anything to prevent this from happening to others in the future? Oprah has at her fingertips the sort of recourse people would like to have when experiencing such problems.

[gollygee]

140. The story is more supposed to highlight that profiling really does exist

and in a big way if it even happens to her. And yes, we can extrapolate that without her power, fame, and money, it's much worse for other African Americans.

[hughee99]

145. I agree, I just didn't think that there was even a question about whether profiling exists. n/t

[gollygee]

146. See #102

I'm not sure if that's the only one. Also, so many people have deflected to the cost of the bag and I'm not sure if they recognize it as racism.

[whathehell]

161. Yes. Apparently if you're rich, you deserve every nasty thing that's out there

According to some here.

[bluestate10]

170. There are many on DU that hate the rich so much that they are blind to even the most egregious

acts. Those DU members only see that a stinking rich person got what they deserved.

[duffyduff]

123. 35 THOUSAND for a PURSE?

There is something terribly wrong with this picture, and it goes far, far beyond any alleged racism.

There shouldn't even BE a situation where blowing 35k on a damned handbag is seen as a discretionary expense.

That is MORE than what millions upon millions of Americans make in a YEAR.

[Generic Other]

125. It was genuine red herring

and they didn't let her touch it anyway.

[AngryOldDem]

204. Took me a few minutes to get past that, too...

...but, everyone should have the right to look at merchandise, browse in a store, and buy something...or not.

I kind of know how she feels, and I'm white. While sightseeing in downtown Chicago a few years back, I stepped in Michael Kors' shop just to see what was what. I definitely got a "you're not good enough for this establishment" vibe. But I kind of had the last laugh, because I saw NOTHING that I wanted to buy, even if I had tens of thousands of bucks burning a hole in my pocket.

Now I just think, "Nice way to turn down potential business."

[duffyduff]

127. It's classism that's the problem

A little more about that handbag:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/entertainment/celebrities/a-38000-handbag-for-worlds-ultra-rich-the-cost-of-accessories-can-be-astronomical/2013/08/09/3d93ba1e-0111-11e3-8294-0ee5075b840d_story.html

[Generic Other]

149. Wow!! Apparently a bargain compared to the others mentioned

I get why people disapprove of such a purchase. I would too. But that's not the point. Unless you think she was profiled as being too poor. Based on what criteria would such a decision be made? Being a woman of color maybe?

[duffyduff]

151. To me the problem isn't race, it's class

I wouldn't even be bellyaching if I were Oprah. She could call Tom up herself and have her very own bag made for her personally.

She made an ass out of herself whining about how hard she has it.

[Generic Other]

155. I didn't take it that way

The class issue is in this case also a race issue as it is the reason her class is questioned. She is an extreme and startling example but an example nonetheless.

[whathehell]

166. it's both.

"Class" doesn't necessarily wipe out racism, and "race" doesn't necessarily wipe out elitism.

[kwassa]

178. You miss the point in a stunning fashion.

She was denied the handbag because of the color of her skin.

Being one of the richest people in the world made no difference.

Race trumps class.

[bluestate10]

171. Yep. Don't put ink pens into some of those bags. nt

[duffyduff]

131. Oprah could always save a few thousand bucks

and order a cheapie variation of the "Jennifer" bag at Neiman Marcus:

http://www.neimanmarcus.com/p/Tom-Ford-Jennifer-Large-Calfskin-Shoulder-Bag-Black/prod158230019/?ecid=NMCIGoogleProductAds&ci_sku=prod158230019skuBLACK&ci_gpa=pla

[dogknob]

143. Racism in Switzerland? I'm shocked! SHOCKED!

How horrible. Did they probe Oprah? Did they arrest Oprah? Did they shoot Oprah? No? Still... this is an outrage!

I guess all we need is a high profile American experiencing racism in a European country...

Now we can ignore our own problems with racism even more than we already are! Yay! Thanks Oprah! Now I can look forward to endless media exposés on Euro-rednecks while black people in my own country are increasingly regarded as wild animals.

I don't give a fuck about Oprah Winfrey, what she thinks, what she does, or what she or any other multi-billionaire feels.

[whathehell]

164. I'd bet you are, actually.

You just "don't give a fuck" about the racism involving her because she's rich, you're not,

and you hate her for it.

Pathetic.

[dogknob]

189. The side of a barn called. You missed.

What better media icon than Winfrey to go somewhere else and use her immense microphone to get outraged about racism in a place that is not the United States?

Of course racism exists in other countries, but we have a particularly unique, self-propelled cycle of racism and denial of racism here in the United States... and this is what we come up with for a "Trayvon who?" topic?

So no, I "don't give a fuck" what happens to Winfrey in Switzerland. Nor did I give a fuck when she "uglified" herself for that "social experiment" she conducted several years after Ann Magnuson had already done it, published it in Redbook, and wrote an entire touring show about it.

Nor do I care to continue down the long list of Winfrey's past pro-corporate-rule stunts and messages that begins with The Secret and ends fuck-knows-where.

[whathehell]

192. Ask not for Whom the Barn calls...It called for you, Lol

Sorry, honey, there is something called non-binary thinking...If you're unaware of its definition

or how it pertains to the situation under discussion, read poster iemitsu's post # 130.

He illustrates it in a way even someone like you might understand.


P.S. I don't know what planet you live on, but I know of NO one who says "Trayvon who"?

Even the international press has covered it....Try harder.

[dogknob]

211. If you try harder, you might go pro. Later. n/t

[whathehell]

216. If you try harder, you may actually be able to debate me, Lol.

"Later", indeed.

[pipi_k]

191. Yeah, poor Oprah...

I actually understand what the person you replied to is saying.

Poor Oprah can't buy an expensive purse because of real or imagined "racism" (which I addressed in another post in this thread).

Meanwhile, there are minorities in this country who, because of race, are denied jobs.

Or housing.

Or raises.

Or medical care.

Pretty little blonde-haired girls go missing and the entire country goes apeshit.

Little black kids? We hardly ever hear about them. "Meh. It's just a black kid". Right?

So, while I don't have a particular axe to grind with Oprah (more power to her for raising herself to fame and fortune), I also don't waste many tears over her inability to buy a fancy ass purse in Switzerland because she thinks (but doesn't know for sure) that the clerk was being "racist".

[whathehell]

193. I'm sure you do...The problem is you don't seem to understand anyone else.

Maybe the jealousy is blinding you, maybe you're not used to thinking in broader terms.

Whatever...Go read iemitsu's post # 138. You might learn something.

Have a nice day.

[pipi_k]

195. You know what

hon?

I'm not jealous of anyone.

I've always felt kind of sorry for people who can buy whatever the hell they want. How sad that they have nothing to dream about.

Because, you know, that's half the fun of it all. Dreaming. Once you have it all, you're left with, "Is that all there is?"

And how utterly sad is it to have so much that one is in fear of it all being lost or taken away someday?

As far as "learning something" from a "Post #138 by iemitsu", I'm sorry, but I couldn't find any such thing.

If, however, you mean post 144 in which this person knows for a FACT that Donald Trump would be welcomed in any shop in Switzerland because he's white, I disagree. Mr Trump would likely be dressed in a suit and tie. He would probably exude wealth, his bad hair aside.

AND...

He's a man. I can imagine him going over and taking the purse down himself. I can imagine him standing there ranting about how rich he is, and how he could probably buy the entire country of Switzerland.

But that was not my point.

My point is that this country faces more serious cases of racism than the one Ms Winfrey did, or did not, face in that shop.

She thinks it was "racism". It could have been any of four or five other possible reasons.

People in this country can't get what they need because of racism.

Poor Oprah couldn't get what she wanted. Big difference there.

[whathehell]

196. You know what, "hon"?...You missed the point entirely

It's not about "poor Oprah", or any other "poor" millionaire, it's about the fact that if even rich, well-known celebrities

experience racism, it's obviously a deeply rooted problem.

If you'd bother to actually read the thread, you would have at least FOUND post #130

and others explaining the broader picture you apparently don't get.

Your ability to comprehend it might be another matter.

[pipi_k]

197. You.

Don't. Know. For. A. Fact. That. It. Was. Racism.

As I pointed out a couple of times already, it could have been for any of a few other reasons.

Just because Ms Winfrey thinks it's racism, that doesn't make it true.

As I said, she could have been dressed rather casually that day, prompting the clerk to judge her based on her clothing.

You don't know what was in that clerk's mind.

Oh, and I just want to point something out to you for future reference.

Questioning the intelligence of people you don't agree with doesn't mean you're a genius who knows the Secrets of The Universe.

Nor does it mean you win the debate.

In fact, the minute a person has to denigrate someone else in order to "prove" a point, he's pretty much lost.

If you want to discuss this without trying to embarrass me, I'll be happy to do so. If you can't conduct yourself like an adult, then please go away.

[whathehell]

198. You.

Would. Not. Doubt. It. IF. She. Was. Not. Very. Rich.

As for being someone who "has to denigrate someone else in order to prove a point",

you seem to forget that it was YOU who first tried to trivialize me by addressing me

with the condescending "hon".

I'd suggest you look in a mirror before whining about how others treat you.

If you can't practice what you preach, you're free to go away as well.

[pipi_k]

199. Actually the first

incident of snark was this...

193. I'm sure you do...The problem is you don't seem to understand anyone else.

Maybe the jealousy is blinding you, maybe you're not used to thinking in broader terms.

Whatever...Go read iemitsu's post # 138. You might learn something.

Let's see...I don't understand anyone else.

You've decided that I'm jealous and it's blinding me.

and I'm not used to thinking in broader terms.

Oh, and let's not forget the reference to a post number that's not even connected to the correct user name, telling me I "might learn something".

And all that just because I refuse to see Oprah as the victim of something that may or may not be true.

You get snotty with people, you're going to get it right back.

[whathehell]

223. I disagree because when you open your post sarcasticly with "Yeah, poor Oprah"

The snark begins.


As you said, you get snotty with people, you're going to get it right back.

[duffyduff]

200. Jealousy? What a laugh. This is about somebody with screw-up values. n/t

[Just Saying]

153. She should have done her Julia Roberts on Pretty Woman impression.

"You get paid on commission right? Big mistake. Huge."

I wonder if that clerk will think hard about judging the next customer by the color of their skin? Nah, probably not. Snobbery runs deep in places that sell bags the cost of nice cars.

[bluestate10]

162. Let me see. Oprah could likely buy enough of those bags to fill a long rail train, without

breaking a sweat.

[Skip Intro]

179. Shop's story differs.

snip:

Shop owner Trudie Gotz told the BBC that an assistant had shown Winfrey several other items before the "misunderstanding" over a $35,000 (£22,500) bag, which was kept behind a screen.

----------------

Maybe there was a misunderstanding. Maybe there was an ego element to the whole thing, not to mention some level of language barrier?

But Oprah says the person refused to serve her. The shop owner says the person showed Oprah several items. Can they both be true?

[Generic Other]

180. Swiss Tourism officials expressed outrage

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130809/oprah-winfrey-victim-of-racism-in-zurich-luxury-boutique#disqus_thread

And why does the owner say she doesn't have "facial recognition" equipment in her defense? Did she think Oprah was gonna rob the shop?

[Blasphemer]

181. They can both be true...

They don't say how much the other items cost. They may have shown her some cheaper items but balked at showing her this particular bag due to the cost and racist attitudes. Oprah was likely just shopping as she normally does, taking her time before making a decision on what to buy, if anything, but they likely made a judgment about what she could afford to buy and/or the likelihood of something criminal being in the works based on her race. Oprah has always been very open about racism she still confronts and about how her socioeconomic class, fame and power makes it such that she doesn't have to deal with it in certain situations where in the past she would have. I don't see any reason to doubt Oprah's version. The store, on the other hand, has good reason to want to portray things differently.

[pipi_k]

190. White privilege...

Profiled. An excellent example of white privilege in action.

Oh yeah...I've been treated just as rudely in stores and shops...must have been white privilege in action.

Except that I'm white.

So scratch the "white privilege" crap as a reason for everything shitty that happens to people who are not white.

I would wonder what Ms Winfrey was wearing that day. Was she dressed rather casually? Not quite like the usual customer who frequents that shop? Maybe the clerk profiled Ms Winfrey based on clothing?

Was it indeed a matter of cultural/language misunderstanding, as the shop owner has said? The clerk, apparently, was Italian and possibly not fluent in English.

Or maybe it was stereotyping based on race...i.e. "black people can't afford a bag this expensive".

Who knows what the reason was. The only person who really knows for sure is the clerk.

Anyway, while "white privilege" does exist, it's not as huge a benefit as some would like to believe it is.

[bravenak]

201. Boy oh boy, the commission she missed is gonna hurt.

I'd sell a handbag to a bum if they had the cash. Stupid hurts.

[Democracyinkind]

203. I have said it for a long time now. All italians are racist.

Yes, this is sarcasm, directed at an overlooked detail in the story.

Me, I consider this a second "Oprah Paris incident", I feel sorry for the sales person rather than Oprah - assuming that she had no racist intentions, of course.

[markiv]

209. perhaps she can start the Billionaire Victims Society

we can pass the hat to wal mart workers who have failed to suffieciently acknowledge their 'White Privilage'

i think it's awfull that there is still somewhere on earth where this billionare still has to say 'dont you know who i am?' when dealing with rude help in snobby stores

[markiv]

210. how many anonymous people

died of cancer

were killed in car accidents

starved to death

on the day the world wept for a billionaire who encountered a snobby clerk while looking at a handbag that cost an average us annual salary?

you know, in every life, a little rain must fall

i dont think she'll ever get over this, because to do that, she'd have to get over herself

[markiv]

212. it is most shocking, that a store that sells $35,000 handbags

does not understand equality

i can see how blindsided poor oprah must have been

i hope she recovers

you know, a 'glass half full' kind of person would have thought 'i am fortunate that i have to go halfway around the world to find a place that doesnt worship me when i blow an average person's pre-tax yearly income on another trinket for myself

[markiv]

213. great pic of her that day

[Generic Other]

217. Is Oprah Big Brother? Or Goldstein? Who do you want me to hate and why?

Does it make you feel better about being poor, powerless and abused yourself if I hate Oprah? Does giving Oprah her comeuppance make you feel as if you are a step closer to achieving the social justice you seek? You made four posts in a row to revive this thread to say something about it not being about race. That a whole lot of people of color are wrong again when they perceive someone is treating them badly because of race.

Some white people always seem ready to step forward every day of the week to tell black people that it's all in their heads. The Catch 22: If you complain about it being about race, then it's not about race and you deserve to be treated poorly for making the accusation because there is no racism.

Trayvon Martin wasn't followed by Zimmerman for being black. Henry Louis Gates wasn't arrested outside his house for looking suspiciously black. A person of color is not 80% more likely to get a ticket driving while black. Maryland was not successfully sued and forced to end their racial profiling practices. Oprah got treated badly in a shop because that's how "snooty" shops act to everyone.

Just keep denying. And remember when you hurl that denial in such a harsh bitter and hurtful tone, it is seen by others as validation that you share the attitudes of the racists.

I find your use of the picture rather offensive as well. And you posted it twice so no one would miss it. You insinuate that Oprah had a tantrum in the store like the Queen of Hearts from Alice in Wonderland. She "was not amused." Ha ha Very funny. Since you compare her to a queen, let's compare her to a real one. Queen Elizabeth II. Taking a page from your book, if we were trying to be as offensive as your example is, we might characterize her as say the titular Queen of the Crackers. Would this queen ever have been treated in such a fashion in this shop? I would say no. Even without facial recognition software.

Finally, I am not sure what to make of your conclusion that a rich person should automatically feel bad, so a shopkeeper who used racism to achieve that end is fine because the rich person deserved it. That is a circular argument to me.

I did not expect this innocent post about Oprah to expose so many raw emotions.

[markiv]

218. 7 paragraphs in response to a Disney pic

holy cow

i'm just speechless

what's it like, to be trapped in your head, with all that?

[Generic Other]

219. 5 rather trite posts to say what? Nothing.

You revived this thread, not me.