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jmowreader

(50,546 posts)
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 01:31 AM Aug 2013

Here's what I don't get, regarding Snowden and Manning...

Why do computers in secure areas have accessible USB ports anyway?

During the Cold War they didn't allow 3.5" floppy drives in systems that processed classified traffic unless the system only came with them (such as a Mac, and those were exceptionally rare in high security environments), and then that system had to be in a place that always had at least two people in it. Because you could put a 3.5" disk in your pocket, there was too great a danger of people walking classified information out of the secure area. If you had a pocket large enough to hold a 5-1/4" disk, you'd have never gotten out of the SCIF with it because it would have been too obvious.

Now all these machines have USB ports and you can just waltz out of the SCIF (sensitive compartmented information facility) with anything you want...which makes me wonder how many OTHER people have been doing this shit.

The government buys the computers it uses for processing classified traffic from special vendors and that equipment has to meet very high standards to keep the secrets inside; why in FUCK are they putting computers in SCIFs that have this big a security hole in them?

And come on: one drum of epoxy and a drum of filler would have solved all this.

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KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
3. Privatization has nothing to do with Manning in the military. And one would think there'd be
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 01:35 AM
Aug 2013

contractors out there salivating at the chance to build a computer especially to prevent this from happening.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
7. Bingo. Even the price is right. I went in on a sub-contract with Unisys that did just that.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 02:50 AM
Aug 2013

Hundreds (thousands?) of obsolete POS that we all paid for. Pick your IT giant, every one of them became giants doing just this, government contracts selling worthless shit for 100X what is was worth.

Response to Egalitarian Thug (Reply #7)

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
15. When they can build a special 100K especially for the military? LOL!
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:16 AM
Aug 2013

Maybe you need to check out how much fighters cost even when they constantly fail.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
2. that's what makes this whole "security" issue seem like such an expensive scam.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 01:33 AM
Aug 2013

If it was all really about security… the system would be secure.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
13. Precisely. It's about electronic toys. Huge ones.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:33 AM
Aug 2013

And getting power.

It isn't about safeguarding democracy or America. Not at all. The people who sell these toys will argue with me. But I do not see their motives as anything more than that they want to sell these things to make money, employ people to run them to make money and to empower a clique of gamers in our government who want to play with our lives and our communications in the process.

But the ultimate result of which these greedy salesmen and childish computer gamers are unaware is the loss of any semblance of democracy and a dictatorship by a military clique that can, on a whim, release information from, depending on the individual, the embarrassing to the devastating. It's a cruel war game played in the computer world. And we will and our Constitution will be the collateral damage.

moondust

(19,970 posts)
5. Yes, puzzling.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 01:58 AM
Aug 2013

Last edited Fri Aug 9, 2013, 03:01 AM - Edit history (1)

Didn't Manning use a CD writer? WTF was that doing in a secure area?

I figured the gov't probably bought all the equipment from Dell or somebody in large quantities and the manufacturer loaded it all down with everything they had so they could charge the government the max. Or alternatively charge the gov't extra to "customize" it all by removing CD drives and USB ports from the "standard configuration," so the gov't said to just leave it to avoid the extra cost. Either way, soak the government!

Floppy drives during the Cold War? You know the Cold War basically ended in 1989 when the Berlin Wall came down, right?

On December 3, 1989, Gorbachev and Reagan's successor, George H. W. Bush, declared the Cold War over at the Malta Summit;[268] a year later, the two former rivals were partners in the Gulf War against Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War


At that time I think everything was still pretty much mainframes and networked terminals, though I don't really know what the NSA had then. As I understand it, IBM built the NSA.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
11. Actually we had pc's at home and were dialing up to boards to connect then. 5 1/4 floppies, luggable
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:24 AM
Aug 2013

"portables" even. I think I got my first one around '84 or so, and there were people a couple years ahead of me.

So, yeah, floppies during the cold war...




moondust

(19,970 posts)
16. At home, yes.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:47 AM
Aug 2013

I saw my first IBM PC in somebody's home around 1982.

Larger institutions tend to be slower to transition to newer technologies due to their large investments in the old. I think many transitioned from mainframe terminals to networked PCs later, in some cases into the 90s, as networking technologies developed. I don't know about the NSA but IBM had a big mainframe business going there so...

jmowreader

(50,546 posts)
17. What amazes me about the Manning "Lady Gaga" thing
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:17 AM
Aug 2013

From what I remember, Manning showed up at the door to the SCIF carrying a CD case with "Lady Gaga" written on it, and in it was a blank CD-R he'd written her name on with a Sharpie. In the good old days, he couldn't have even gotten a factory-made Lady Gaga CD through the security checkpoint. He couldn't have gotten a LOT of things through security; calculator watches were a big no-no. If it ran on electricity, or batteries, or was used with something that ran on electricity or batteries, and you didn't have approval from the site special security officer (who at our site was an asshole who NEVER gave approval to anything except the custom-made earbuds our transcribers all had, and once those came in they didn't leave), it didn't get in.

And yes, floppy drives during the Cold War. The standard PC was called the Agency Standard Terminal Workstation. It came two ways: the ASTW-XT, which was an IBM PC-XT with 10MB hard drive, 360k floppy drive, Hercules mono graphics card, and 640k RAM, and the ASTW-AT, which was a 6MHz IBM AT with 1.2MB floppy drive, 20MB hard drive, Hercules mono graphics and 640k RAM. Strange thing was, they never really standardized on word processors so you'd go into a subsystem that had five computers and you'd probably find four different word processors.

This computer was my baby:


The almighty AN/UYK-43 mainframe. Made by Unisys, and just the right size to fit through the torpedo loading hatch on a submarine because that's how you got it in. These come in water-cooled and air-cooled versions, and ours was water-cooled. If you're looking for cheap entertainment, try telling the new colonel his field station is running in contingency mode because the water pump on the computer broke. We had three spares, but it's a four-hour job to change one.

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
6. If the bank or another company has your data on their system,
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 02:32 AM
Aug 2013

you expect it to be secure. Shouldn't the same be expected of NSA?

OTOH if they are sharing with half the countries in the world, there is no way they can secure it. I expect to one day get a Nigerian email offering to recover all my emails off the NSA system..

delrem

(9,688 posts)
9. Computers are copying machines.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 03:14 AM
Aug 2013

They're copy/paste machines.
They're copy/paste-and-add machines.
They're designed to optimize recursive circuits.

It'd be ... hard ... to invent a computer that didn't have an easily accessible port.

JoeyT

(6,785 posts)
12. I wouldn't think it would be that hard.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 04:27 AM
Aug 2013

We're talking about people that can spend a billion dollars on a single plane. Kicking a few million toward making a proprietary drive, even if it was just something so oddly shaped it would be damned near impossible for a hobbyist to replicate shouldn't be that difficult.

Something like this:



with connections on every layer would be impossible to replicate. Well..not impossible, but damned close.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
10. The LifeLock infomercial came on the other day.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 03:15 AM
Aug 2013

It's got Montel Williams and (ahem) "America's Mayor" and "security expert," Rudy Guliani, talking about how hackers could get all your personal information, and how bad it is, and how worried you should be, and I kept thinking, "SOME GUY AT BOOZ ALLEN HAMILTON CAN WATCH EVERY FUCKING THING YOU DO."

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
14. I think what you aren't getting is that the government isn't about governing and hasn't for
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 05:22 AM
Aug 2013

decades, if it ever did. Government at the top levels is nothing but a huge and bottomless trough for connected parasites to feed at.

If you're old, you might remember Senator Proxmire's Golden Fleece awards. Since he's gone, it has only gotten worse as nobody in DC talks about it anymore.

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