When a city has to publish safe passage routes to get kids to school alive

[hack89]

you know you have a serious violent crime problem.

Chicago Public Schools officials today released maps of routes where security will be provided for the thousands of children going to news schools this year.

The so-called "safe passage" routes are designed to smoothly shift students from 47 schools being closed this year to nearby schools. (Click HERE to see maps)

Parents have voiced concern about children crossing rival gang territories and passing empty buildings and vacant lots.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/chi-cps-releases-maps-of-safe-passage-routes-20130809,0,4881483.story

[Mika]

1. This was the case for some MIami Fla schools in the early 70's.

On the bus I rode to school in Jr high we had police escorts because of rock throwing and gunfire upon some of the buses.

[tumtum]

4. Wasn't that due to desegregation and busing?

In Chicago, it's due to gang violence.

[Mika]

28. No. It was gangs both black & white. eom

[Egalitarian Thug]

2. Or you have a government so thoroughly corrupt that there is no competence left within it.

Good people will not work under the conditions created in a culture of graft. They come in, get the line they want on their resume, and then they leave for someplace they can do their job.

[Recursion]

3. The schools *themselves* haven't had any shootings in years

But plenty of shootings the second kids step off campus. More of the wallpaper theory of crime, unfortunately.

[JVS]

13. What is the wallpaper theory of crime?

[Recursion]

14. If you stop crime over here you increase crime over there, like pushing bubbles in wallpaper

It's an older sociological theory that a given population has a "base" level of criminality that will express itself in one place and time or another. I don't think it's very popular among sociologists anymore.

[HiPointDem]

5. kr

[Recursion]

6. Before either side of the gun control argument steps in, I'm assuming we all agree

1. More guns wouldn't help

2. The strongest gun control laws in the nation haven't actually produced the situation of fewer guns

So if we could just avoid going down either of those roads...

[tumtum]

7. Agreed.

[Spider Jerusalem]

12. re #2

"the strongest gun control laws in the nation...haven't...produced...fewer guns"

Chicago isn't an island, last time I checked. There isn't a gate around the city; people travelling in and out aren't stopped and searched, don't have to go through a customs checkpoint. Stronger gun-control laws aren't going to work to keep guns out of the hands of criminals when it's all too easy to drive 30 miles and get a gun. Stronger gun-control laws nationwide would produce fewer guns; stronger gun-control laws on a municipal level are useless.

[sir pball]

19. No city, or any place in the US, is an island.

You're absolutely correct about that, local gun laws are minimized by easy interstate travel.

But you're drawing the wrong conclusion. Allowing for uniform firearms access across the country more or less eliminates it as a variable in this particular analysis - it probably is just as easy to get a gun in Chicago as it is in Austin, but their violent crime rates are polar opposites. The only conclusion that we can make regarding reducing Chicago's crime rate relative to the rest of the country* is that there's some other aspect besides gun control that accounts for the difference. And maybe instead of having a hardon for the guns, either pro or anti, we should be looking elsewhere. So let's discuss. Maybe more police? Or better outreach programs to disadvantaged inner-city youth? Many flaws notwithstanding it's worked pretty well here in NYC.

* - I say this because we're talking about Chicago's insane levels of violence, not any national statistics. IF we were talking about the country as a whole, discussion of national laws would be in order (and even then the massive disparity between the best and the worst cities would require examination), but we aren't.

[riderinthestorm]

25. Some/most of these neighborhoods are less than 45 minutes to Gary Indiana

another hotbed of violent crime with easy access to guns.

Regardless anyone living in Chicago can get to Gary Indiana in about an hour +/-.

That this is the real reason guns are so easily available in Chicago is a known fact. Chicago's gun laws may be quite restrictive but the access to them via an easy drive across state lines makes most of those laws moot.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

29. They don't even need to go across state lines.

Arms dealers to the gangs exist in the south side suburbs.

Years ago, after a rookie Chicago cop by the name of Ceriale(sp?) was killed, an investigation was done as to the source of guns used in Chicago crime. An alarming number of crime/shootings were committed with guns bought at a handful of south suburban gun stores. Those stores were caught in sting operations knowingly selling guns to straw-buyers for gangbangers.

[riderinthestorm]

30. Yup. I was just trying to clarify where the flood of illegal guns were coming from

despite Chicago's "tough" gun laws.

You've nicely clarified "how" they are obtained by the gangs. Thanks!

I just don't think people understand how easy it is to thwart the laws in Chicago....

[Paladin]

15. You're too late. (nt)

[Skip Intro]

23. It's not a gun problem, it's a people problem.

Gangs and people without any sense of morals or law or value of life.

[Comrade Grumpy]

26. Gee, why would that be? What's wrong with all those bad people?

Your response is a common conservative one: The problem is bad people.

What about the social-economic-political context? What about deindustrialization, what about the legacy of racism, what about poverty? What about a criminal justice system that gobbles up black people and spits out broken people and families?

Yes, individuals have responsibilities, but stopping there is a conservative cop-out.

[Skip Intro]

27. Gee, because that's the reality of the situation.

The gun laws are in place, they're not working.

This is about behavior - criminal behavior.

You can't solve the problem if you refuse to even acknowledge it.

Take a break from worrying about what labels should be applied to whom and focus on reality for a while.

[Xipe Totec]

8. One of my nieces in Mexico told me about her school's firefight drills

Not fire drills, not tornado drills, they train for escaping during firefights between the cartels and the military.

[KamaAina]

9. You also have a serious problem with your DINO mayor following the ALEC agenda.

The so-called "safe passage" routes are designed to smoothly shift students from 47 schools being closed this year to nearby schools. (Click HERE to see maps)

[Ace Rothstein]

10. Depopulation

Chicago lost 200k people last decade. You can't continue to keep all of the schools open with fewer people paying taxes.

[liberal_at_heart]

11. Schools are not corporations. If the government truly cared about those children they would fund

those schools. Less people could mean smaller class sizes. That would be a good thing for our children. The problem is is that we are now treating our public institutions like corporations. We need to stop privatizing our public institutions and start properly funding them.

[Recursion]

16. Except urban districts universally spend more per pupil than the suburbs around them

I think Detroit was literally the only exception to that in the past few years. In 2012, Chicago spent $14K per student and Highland Park spent $13K. Where I live, DC spends $18K to Fairfax County's $12K.

[Nevernose]

17. Often, but not universally.

[Recursion]

18. OK, that's fair (nt)

[Ace Rothstein]

20. Disagree

Keeping the same number of schools open with a massive population drop is how cities go bankrupt. It isn't like the students won't be able to go to school either. They'll now have to go 5-6 blocks to school instead of 2-3 blocks. The problem with the schools in some parts of Chicago isn't funding, it is poor parenting.

[liberal_at_heart]

21. cities wouldn't go bankrupt funding their schools if the federal government would help

cities fund the schools. We have the money to do this. We just prefer to spend money on war than on school. Public schools should not have to prove that they can be self sustainable. They are not corporations. We as a nation should be funding our schools. We did this 40 years ago. We funded our schools 40 years ago. The problem is that over the last 40 years we have decided our kids are not worth spending the money on. That is the problem.

[Ace Rothstein]

22. Are you from Chicago?

If you were, you would know funding isn't the problem.

[liberal_at_heart]

24. funding is a problem in all our schools right now. Of course Chicago has unique problems I'll give

you that. Largest number of school closings in history. Emanuel seems determined to eviscerate the public school system there. He also seems determined to cripple the teachers union. Not to mention you have ALEC also trying to desimate the public schools system there in Chicago as well as other places. I have seen my child suffer due to the crappy way our government is treating our schools. Race to the Top sucks. We need to fund our schools. I am one pissed off mom, and I will fight with ever fiber of my being to see funding brought back to our schools.