LOL, Tell me again how SNOWDEN did not make any difference......

[Logical]

From CNN: The president will also announce new measures to instill greater transparency in the government snooping programs that were revealed earlier this summer, which critics said amounted to massive federal overreach.

All of the sudden, Obama is willing to discuss government snooping programs! Wow, wonder why that is????

Obama: "It's not enough for me, as president, to have confidence in these programs. The American people have to have confidence as well,"

So tell me again how Snowden did not matter! Anyone saying that is an idiot!

[dkf]

1. He says Snowden could have used other channels. Bwahahahahaha. Puhleeze.

I am clenching me teeth through this thing.

[A Simple Game]

75. Yes he could have used other channels Mr. President, you could have assured him before hand

that those other channels were safe and productive to use. You could have offered him one, but you didn't. You could have offered him amnesty and a safe place to air his grievances with a promise to be taken seriously. You chose not to do that and to initiate hunting him down. Why would he think he would be treated any differently than Manning? If I treated my dog like you allowed Manning to be treated, I would be in jail and rightly so.

President Obama by his poor thinking and knee jerk responses to this has harmed himself and this country more than Snowden ever could. Other countries find little to like about the Bolivian plane incident and even now most doubt our terror alert is anything more than propaganda.

[bobclark86]

172. Sure, he could have used different channels...

He could have gone to Fox News and been immediately written off...

[leftstreet]

2. Interesting the speech is a Friday news dump

weird

[JoePhilly]

7. "Bully Pulpit", "Pretty Speech", "Bully Pulpit", "Pretty Speech" !!

Do you think this speech won't be one of the main topics on the Sunday News shows this weekend?

btw ... the Friday News Dump is usually a large document dump that occurs with little or no fanfare, and is so large that no one will find the "outrage items" in it prior to the Sunday AM talk shows.

[leftstreet]

10. Monday prime time, if he wanted to reassure Americans

seems to me

No one watches Sunday bs 'news' shows

[JoePhilly]

26. No one on DU maybe. Most regular people who follow ...

politics, watch those shows.

I agree they suck, but that does not stop people who follow polotics from watching them.

And why Monday night, why not Tuesday, or Wednesday, prime time?

The American people don't like their favorite shows being preempted by the President. I know that sounds crazy here on DU, but that's the simple truth.

Again, the Friday News Dump has been away to dump a large number of documents, often unannounced, late on Friday when no one IN THE PRESS would notice. Doing so ensured that the material would not make it onto the Sunday AM shows.

That doesn't work with a press conference where the press is invited. They get to ask questions. There will be a full transcript of all of it. Plenty of opportunity for the Sunday news channel folks to prepare entire segments, even perhaps entire shows, on this topic.

[leftstreet]

31. Most regular people don't follow politics

But you probably know that

It's a Friday dump

[JoePhilly]

43. I did not say that most regular people follow politics.

I said, most regular people who follow politics, watch those shows.

In other words, if we take the entire population of "regular folks", we can further subdivide it into GROUP A, those regular people who DO NOT follow politics, and GROUP B those regular folks who DO follow politics.

Now ... GROUP B watches those Sunday news shows. Group A, does not.

Further ... GROUP A will not watch the prime time address that you called for anymore than they would watch the Sunday shows. Part of GROUP B will watch a prime time address, and part of GROUP B will decide to watch some other preferred TV show.

Additionally, we can take GROUP B and divide it into Democrats and Republicans. All of group B will watch the Sunday shows, but probably on different channels. However, the Republican members of GROUP B will more than likely avoid watching the Kenyan Muslim 47% Negro President during prime time. Instead, they'll wait to hear what Hannity has to say about whatever the Anti-Christ had to say.

[leftstreet]

48. So he wants to reassure Group B Democrats

okay

sounds legit

[JoePhilly]

52. You really can't be that dense.

[leftstreet]

59. Well, I'm just a regular person

[malaise]

34. His vacation begins tomorrow

Please. I see nothing wrong with a Friday Press Conference - for the record ReTHUGs are already on vacation.
He tore ReTHUGs a new one on health care and immigration

[leftstreet]

36. Ah

I didn't know that

Oh well. He already did the Leno show and that probably got more notice anyway

[Recursion]

62. Funny, isn't it?

"He should use the bully pulpit"

"That's just words!!!"

Usually that's two sides of an argument. Here it's one side.

[KoKo]

99. I thought the same thing...and it was an "Unscheduled Presser"

So there was heat from the Big Tech CEO's who flew in to meet him along with "civil rights activists" according to NYT's. But, the meeting was Secret.

POB says he's putting up a New Website for the Government to deal with "our concerns and questions"...but, will he reveal anything about what he was advised in these secret meetings with the Tech PooBahs and the not named "Civil Rights Groups." Are they sworn to secrecy or will THEY LEAK.

The whole thing is becoming pretty Bizarre...

[Logical]

144. True! n-t

[JoePhilly]

3. So wait ... it IS about Snowden again?

Its so hard to keep track.

[MannyGoldstein]

94. Not so much

But it is an amusing, if ditracting and divisive sideshow.

[JoePhilly]

95. I agree it is amusing ... one day it isn't about Snowden ...

then it IS ... then its definitely NOT about Snowden, but it IS about Greenwald, unitl a couple days latter when its NOT about Greenwald again.

Of course, it is possible that Snowden's actions (a) have helped force a debate that no one wanted to really have, and (b) he broke some serious laws because of the manner in which he did so.

In addition, it is possible that Snowden's motivations include (a) some very positive reasons for wanting to make more of this public, and also (b) some really disturbing reasons for doing it as well.

Thus the sideshow.

[ZombieHorde]

155. To be fair, this isn't a two-sided situation.

There are many sides/opinions on this subject, so grouping these opinions into two camps will "create" contradictions.

[millennialmax]

4. Actually, the programs were in review and on track to being changed before Snowden leaked the info.

He only forced them to speed up the timeline.

Are you watching the same press conference?

[Logical]

5. LOL, yes, and you think this would of happened this quick? n-t

[WillyT]

6. LOL !!! - Good One !!!

[millennialmax]

9. Are you calling our President a liar? eom

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. A politician Lie?!!? Perish the thought.

[DJ13]

14. He's a politician, isnt he?

[millennialmax]

16. Nice dodge.

[DJ13]

19. You'll learn

[Fuddnik]

84. Hello again, Graham!

[Bonobo]

96. +1 nt

[neverforget]

136. Lol! exactly what I was thinking!

[bobduca]

143. LOL

that poster is up for anything!

[Maedhros]

41. Here's video proof of a lie by Obama:

&feature=player_embedded

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/315871-obama-we-dont-have-a-domestic-spying-program

President Obama on Tuesday defended the National Security Agency’s (NSA) surveillance programs in a wide-ranging interview on “The Tonight Show with Jay Leno,” arguing that the agency doesn’t target U.S. civilians.

“We don’t have a domestic spying program,” Obama said, according to the media pool report. “What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terrorist attack…That information is useful.”

We know those statements are not accurate. The collection of data is performed constantly, not just in response to a terrorist attack, and is collected from U.S. citizens, which makes it domestic.

[millennialmax]

44. That's not proof of anything. As the President said in his presser today:

He is going to work on providing us the whole elephant in the coming days and weeks, rather than a piece of the ear and the tail.

Right now, people are calling the President a liar based on not having all the pieces of the puzzle put together.

[Maedhros]

76. Well, in the video he clearly made statements that are refuted by the available evidence.[n/t]

[KoKo]

102. There's a post up now on DU with Link about Wyden/Udall saying that

the President didn't tell the truth in his guest appearance on Jay Leno's show this week.

So, why would two Senators say that if it wasn't true? Also we know that James Clapper lied his ass off to Congress...and what is being done about that?

[millennialmax]

103. So if Wyden and Udall say they're satisfied with these latest actions, you'll be on board?

I'm genuinely curious about their perspective as well.

It'd be nice to hear what they have to say after today.

[truebluegreen]

122. Wyden and Udall have both been waving their arms for years,

the President not so much. So as far as I'm concerned, they have more credibility than he does on this program.

And I doubt if they will be totally reassured by anything he says.

[KoKo]

127. Wyden and Udall said "Obama DID NOT TELL THE TRUTH."

In the "offchance" that you misread my post...you can see that YOUR INTERPRETATION...is neither Wyden's, nor Udalls.

It's YOU who need to "Brush Up" on your reading skills. And I'm putting you on IGNORE...because you seem to not be able to Read... and that's a skill most DU'ers have as an Attribute!

So GONE WITH YA!

[pmorlan1]

171. Here you go

Here you go. Here's Ron Wyden's views. He wasn't fooled by the President's weak decoy response to reform. LOL

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-statement-on-president-obamas-proposed-reforms-to-the-fisc-and-patriot-act

Overall, I welcome the proposals made today by the President and intend to work closely with my colleagues, including Senators Udall, Leahy, Blumenthal, Merkley and Feinstein and Reps. Sensenbrenner and Lofgren, to ensure that the president’s proposals are strengthened and become law.”

Short Ron Wyden: The president pretended to be interested in reform by stealing some of my stronger proposals and weakening them but we will work to strengthen what the President has advocated and pass those strengthened proposals into law.

[zeemike]

114. Yep...they are always working on things

And fighting for things...
But in the end the work is never enough and the fighting is never enough to win...but it lets them off the hook, and allows you to say that it is not proof of anything.

Some people are just catching on to the game...too bad eh?

[pmorlan1]

169. Interesting word choice

LOL

He's been giving us the whole "elephant" for years now. In fact, he's adopted the elephant. He has more GOP policies than any Democratic administration I've ever seen. Yeah, using elephant to describe NSA spying was certainly the right word for Obama to use.

[Hydra]

60. Considering he pulled a Bush on us

And asked him to trust him that the NSA wasn't spying on us? Ya, that was a lie. He also can't be said not to know about it, since the FISA court ruled that the NSA was violating the 4th amendment, and the President is currently blocking that ruling from being FOIA'ed.

I'm sorry, the President did, in fact, attempt to protect people who are breaking the law by lying. I'm sorry that he has proven to be human, it seems to bother a lot of people here for some reason.

[randome]

67. So you'll believe anything S&G say so long as you get to call the President a liar. Got it.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hydra]

77. Hi there!

The President didn't have to defend the NSA- he could have done his usual route of not getting involved in public and let things sort themselves out.

Instead, he threw in with the people who are committing treason, and he compromised himself in the process.

We have enough info now to know that they stretched the laws beyond any reasonable breaking point. The fact that they are saying "yes we do, but it's legal" puts it outside the realm of the President having done the right thing by shutting it down, so that option is gone.

We don't need S & G- the President is writing the story now, and he's not doing a good job of it if he wanted a shining legacy.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

97. I believed every word of their Concert in Central Park. Why?

[rhett o rick]

131. You mean when he said he was for repealing the Patriot Act? Or closing Gitmo? Let's just say

he likes to use strong rhetoric.

[RC]

130. I agree-Those programs would have been changed alright, but not in the way some people seem to think

Even now, with all the evidence available, some here still refuse to believe our government spying on us is within the law? And it is what keeping the terrorists at bay?
Move over

[Th1onein]

11. Absolutely WRONG.

PUH-LEAZE. We all know better than that. There have been LIES to hide them; LIES to cover up the lies, and now this.

[millennialmax]

13. Are you calling our President a liar? eom

[Th1onein]

30. What are you after, millennialmax?

You seem like you might NEED some COFFEE.

[millennialmax]

32. I'm after discussion with rational Democrats. How about you? eom

[Th1onein]

45. So, are YOU a rational Democrat?

Do YOU support Obama?

You know, you remind me of somebody......it'll come to me in a minute, I'm sure.

[millennialmax]

47. Yes, I support President Obama. And I put a lot of faith and trust in the man.

I feel as if I'm a good judge of character and I'd be the first person to say he's full of shit if I felt that way.

I do not feel that way and it honestly bothers me when others do.

[Th1onein]

49. HONESTLY, it bothers you?

Did you vote for Obama? Honestly? Did you give money to his campaign?

[millennialmax]

50. I wouldn't bother defending someone I didn't vote for.

I gave $5 to the campaign. It was all I could afford.

[Th1onein]

54. Got any PROOF of that?

Any EVIDENCE?

On edit: Bzzzzzt! Time's up. YOU LOSE.

[Divernan]

40. He/she is a newbie, reporting for duty, Sir! Got to get in as many posts as possible.

Six out of 29 in the thread? No substantive discussion, of course!

The "eom" is a nice touch, though. Is that a military thingie?

[Hydra]

63. Oh, good catch

I was sure we'd have coffee delivery again...

[Th1onein]

92. For your information, sometimes all I need is coffee!

Really.

[Union Scribe]

88. !

[darkangel218]

159. lmao!!

No you didn't!!

[leftstreet]

33. The NSA did not have spy relations with those Americans!

Obama To Leno: 'There Is No Spying On Americans'

by Greg Henderson
August 07, 201312:44 AM


President Obama defended the , telling NBC's Jay Leno on Tuesday that: "There is no spying on Americans."

"We don't have a domestic spying program," Obama said on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. "What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terrorist attack. ... That information is useful."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/06/209692380/obama-to-leno-there-is-no-spying-on-americans

[Savannahmann]

35. Less than a week ago, on the Leno show

President Obama said that there was no spying on Americans going on. That claim went over like the proverbial lead balloon.

At the time, I suggested that this might be true using particular definitions of the word spying.

There are m any lies. Some are the least untruthful lie that is possible, as in what James Clapper told the Senate when Senator Wyden went off script and asked an actual question.

There are lies of omission, lies which are technically true if you go by whatever definition of the word they think they are using.

An example I gave was Delta Force. For years after Chuck Norris made his infamous movies, the Army continued to deny that Delta Force existed. Later they explained that they told the technical truth. The group which was called Delta Force in the movies, was officially known as Special Operations Detachment Delta. You see, it was absolutely true that no group existed known as Delta Force.

So before you jump to asinine conclusions that any of us who question the President's statements are daring to call him a liar, know that we are far more acquainted with the nuances of this, and many other stories, than you appear to be.

[millennialmax]

39. The cartoon version people have of the NSA and its programs is simply not true.

But at least people stop short of claiming it's a prerequisite for the FEMA camps.

[KoKo]

106. Why should we believe anything you say...unless you claim to work for NSA

and if you did declare that...at this point no one would believe it because you never give any "life experience" or links to support your views...whereas most of the repliers on this thread have a "KNOWN HISTORY" and have credibility because of their ability to back up their statements with facts, links and history that gives THEM more credibility than you have shown by just coming in here repeating the same Talking Points over and over.

[millennialmax]

108. I'm referring to a press conference of the President of the United States.

That trumps any and all links provided to off-the-wall websites with people playing reporter and headlines in UK rags, that have been proven misleading time and time again (Rep. Lewis comments just recently).

Sorry that you don't like that reality, but that's the gist of it.

[caseymoz]

116. There are people who have cartoon versions of Obama

Look, if the guy is supposed to be the 11 dimensional chess player, why wouldn't he be playing against us?

[millennialmax]

118. "There are people who have cartoon versions of Obama"

Ain't that the truth.

[caseymoz]

147. Look, I gave to the guy's campaigns

Both times. Like you, I don't have much spare cash for that. It's best if you become alienated in 2013 when the facts are with you than realize what a sucker you've were in 2019, and how you culled the news for details that exonerate Obama for this mess.

[reusrename]

132. I've actually made that specific claim.

http://election.democraticunderground.com/10023347631

[AnotherMcIntosh]

104. Operation Mockingbird is probably no longer called Operation Mockingbird.

[chimpymustgo]

157. Here ya go: THE PRESIDENT IS A LIAR. Got it? Listen to him. Read the transcript.

Digest the analysis.

[Rex]

21. The programs were not going to change.

They won't change. Why should they? Everything they are doing is perfectly legal.

[millennialmax]

22. I'm not going to recap the press conference for you, but that was addressed. eom

[Logical]

24. Gullible much? n-t

[Rex]

25. I don't need your reply, thanks, it was a statement of fact.

nt.

[KoKo]

100. So...Snowden's Revelations put a fire under them to Speed Up these Reviews?

Why didn't he tell us this before this "Presser?" I don't recall him ever saying that before.

[cantbeserious]

123. The Epitome Of Wishful Thinking IMHO

eom

[JDPriestly]

125. Yes. Now they are going to use machines to do Snowden's job, and the tiny circle of

special people who get to read the output from the machines that rank and sort and analyze and group and decide the fate of our electronic communications, our Google searches, our opinions stated on the internet, etc. will get smaller and tighter. Leaks will be easier to control as will the masses of people. Propaganda will be so common, so widespread that we won't believe anything. Police raids on our neighbors will become less unusual. We will be inured to the police state. It has happened over and over. Used to happen over there, somewhere in some distant land. I guess it's our turn now. If you believe there really was an unusual terrorist threat this weekend, well, let's just say a lot of Germans did not realize they were living in a totalitarian society until the bombs started dropping. They just thought that unemployment was going down. They didn't realize that the drop in unemployment was partly due to the draft for the military, the revving up of military equipment plants and the deportation of "undesirables" of all kinds, not until they themselves were arrested for eating more bacon than was rationed to them.

[tridim]

8. "Wow, wonder why that is????"

Because people have been demanding it, and unlike Bush he listens to the people and ACTS. See LGBT rights.

[OnyxCollie]

28. See torture.

Scratch that. Look forward instead.

[Pholus]

162. Yeah. Of course there were some posters here right pissed about that too....

But I guess his toes got warm so it is all good.

[blm]

15. Most of us said it wasn't NEW. It's the corporate media's focus that is suspect

because they sure weren't interested in it much back when it was going on illegally since before 9-11, and just spread even further since. They had plenty of angles to approach it even a decade ago.

It's Snowden and Greenwald making the story so personally aimed at Obama, while ignoring that the program was institutionalized by Congress in the years before Obama took office.

[OnyxCollie]

37. Harry Reid could have refused to bring the 2008 FISA amendments to the floor.

FISA would have returned to pre-Bush status.

Obama promised to filibuster, and then voted for it instead.

Those are two significant instances where Obama and Reid could have returned FISA to what it was before Bush, yet chose to do otherwise.

Why are you defending Obama? He's part of the problem.

[leftstreet]

42. +1

Everyone forgets that

[blm]

167. I'm not gonna pretend I voted for Obama and expected that all these programs would end

because I know that when a program like this becomes institutionalized, it's going to be incredibly difficult to end it. And if he had ended it and there was another terror attack, we'd all be complaining about Mitt Romney and the GOP senate and Congress right now. That's reality.

It is also reality that I am hopeful about his intent to curb the most onerous aspects.

[KoKo]

110. "The Program" has been EXPANDED since then as Tech Sophistication

Since Bush...has increased in Leaps and Bounds! Heck there weren't "Thumb Drives" when Bush was President...and I didn't have access to an "Internet Friendly TV" or ability to have a ROKU BOX to bypass Cable and be able to have FREEDOM from the Networks/Cable crap. Plus to have access to Foreign News instead of the CNN/MSNBC/Network/PBS Filtered Pap.

It's so Sophisticated and beyond control that our "young President" doesn't even know what its DOING?

[blm]

164. You really think Bush ended TIA? No way. Total means TOTAL.

.

[99th_Monkey]

17. Hey! Lighten up. I'm sure Obama meant to do that all along.

in a pigs eye.

[Logical]

20. LOL! n-t

[Rex]

18. He made a difference.

nt.

[KittyWampus]

23. Oh, he made a "difference". He fucked up a meeting w/ Chinese, Russia, various countries in Europe.

All over information that was OLD, recycled. Provided no proof of his accusations.

[Logical]

27. And all of the sudden, Obama wants to be more open? LOL! n-t

[phleshdef]

51. Yea, so people like you will stop bitching and move on.

As he explained during the press conference, he already had these reforms proposed prior to Snowden's criminal wankery. But now, because its become a more passionate discussion in the media and the blogosphere, etc. So, he wants to make people more comfortable with it, at least as much as he possibly can so that we can move on.

You can choose not to believe him. I don't care about that. But its his word versus your opinion on his word and I'm taking his word over your opinion.

[Logical]

53. So IT DID make a difference. Quicker at least! n-t

[phleshdef]

58. Who cares? That doesn't vindicate the way Snowden handled this or the way Greenwald misrepresented..

...the programs in question. There were legal avenues Snowden could've taken to expose things that he felt were illegal. He didn't take those avenues. He broke a bunch of laws and not just petty laws, but some important ones. He stole a shit load of classified documents, fled the country and then he got in bed with foreign countries that we have shaky relations with and possibly leaked intelligence data to them on legitimate counterespionage operations on top of starting a shit storm between us and our allies.

I want our surveillance operations and drone operations and MIC operations in general slashed down about 20 notches. But that doesn't mean I'm gonna give my approval to a slimy, thoughtless little dickhead like Snowden.

[Logical]

66. Well, Dickhead made Obama finally discuss this shit. At least someone did!!! n-t

[phleshdef]

78. Obama was proposing reforms before you ever knew the name Ed Snowden.

[Logical]

79. LOL, like he said they would rule "quickly" on CO and WA legal pot. Still crickets. n-t

[phleshdef]

81. It hasn't even been a year since those measures passed.

The problem isn't the speed at which the government handles such matters so much as it is the need for immediate gratification from attention deficit disorder riddled critics.

[Logical]

83. Keep trying. n-t

[phleshdef]

85. Yea, thats the sort of thing someone says when they've ran out of steam/losing an argument.

[Logical]

86. So define "quickly" for me! LOL. n-t

[phleshdef]

89. Sure, no problem.

quick·ly [kwik-lee]
adverb
with speed; rapidly; very soon.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

107. Why propose to reform something that is not being done?

[phleshdef]

115. Why introduce a field of strawmen to the argument with such an invalid question?

No one ever denied the existence of NSA surveillance programs. There were media reports on them as early as 2006. And the President nor his administration ever made any executive orders or signed any laws that ever dismantled those programs. I've known that programs of this nature existed 7 years ago. And I've never been under the assumption they were ever done away with.

So considering that no one ever said that these programs didn't exist and there was at least enough information out there to have a general understanding of their nature, I don't believe the "something that is not being done" part of your question is relevant.

The "Why propose to reform..." part is valid and the President was asked and answered that same question during the presser today. To paraphrase, he basically said that theres a lot of misinformation that has been spread as to how these programs work and a lot of Americans are no comfortable with it based on their, sometimes incorrect, understanding of them. He understands that concern and he wants to introduce reforms with the goal of making people feel better about it because having the people feeling comfortable with what they are doing is something that's important to him.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

117. Sorry, I otherwise thought that he said that we don't have a domestic spying program.

[phleshdef]

119. That was in the context of what he has said about this from the very beginning.

In that we aren't listening to phone calls and reading people's emails wholesale. It only goes to that extent on an individual basis with a warrant. And I've yet to see any credible evidence to the contrary.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

134. So then, there should be no need to reform it. And why, exactly, is it somehow important

to anyone other than yourself as to whether you have or have not seen "any credible evidence" on the spying issue? Are you a Congressman? A Senator? Are you an investigator of some sort? Even an investigative reporter?

If not, it is not necessary for you to see "credible evidence," whatever that means.

[phleshdef]

141. I believe it should be reformed.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean its the right thing to do and even if its the right thing to do, that doesn't mean our government shouldn't take extra measures to make sure we feel that transparency is being given due diligence.

And yea, in order for me to believe extraordinary claims, I need to see extraordinary evidence.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

105. There must be two Obamas.

[phleshdef]

120. Actually there are several all over the world, but Barack and Michelle are 2 Obamas, yes.

[silvershadow]

29. Well, based on what I can deduce, he may not have, but others have quickly filled in a few blanks

that *do back up his accusations. At least enough that it's brought about this rather extraordinarily un-appeasing press conference today. Sorry, to my mind the wheels are now coming off.

[Divernan]

56. If by "he" you mean Obama, right. O. canceled a private meeting in Moscow w/ Putin.

The G-20 Summit in St. Petersburg is still on. Could you break with your personal tradition and provide specific information, i.e., time and place of "meeting(s) w/Chinese, Russia, various countries in Europe"?

Take your time, now. Did that comment come to you in a dream? You referred specifically to meetings in China, Russia and "various countries" in Europe. And if you can't come up with any specific meetings and countries to support your claim, I gently suggest you stop pulling accusations out of your - ahem - hat.

[lamp_shade]

38. LOL n/t

[olddots]

46. I'm an idiot

n.t.

[Logical]

55. If you think that Obama would be discussing this in a news conference without Snowden, then yes. n-t

[Divernan]

69. Mr. Transparency hasn't had a WH news conference since last April - four months!

This is his effort to put a lid on it before he heads off on vacation - where's he going anyway - back to the millionaires' get-together in Martha's Vineyard?

Just looked it up. The Obamas are really roughing it this year. Downsizing from a $22.4 million house with its own private golf course to a shabby little 5,000 sq. ft., $7.6 million house. Can you say One Percenters, boys and girls?

Obamas downsize Martha's Vineyard vacation rental

The house stands on 9.5 acres and has floor-to-ceiling windows, 4 bedrooms, and views of the Atlantic Ocean. President Obama is once again headed to Martha's Vineyard for a family vacation. But this time around, the Obamas are downsizing to a contemporary 5,000-square-foot property, Bloomberg's Julianna Goldman reported on Friday.

The rental house stands on 9.5 acres and has floor-to-ceiling windows, four bedrooms, and views of the Atlantic Ocean, according to Goldman. There is an attached two-bedroom guest house. It was designed by architect Rick Sundberg and completed in 2006.

"While the first family is there they can swim in the infinity pool, they could shoot hoops on a half basketball court, even hit the gym," she said in the report. "They could also play tennis on the tennis court there." The property has an estimated value of $7.6 million, and is located in the town of Chilmark, Mass.

The first family's previous vacation house was sold to British architect Norman Foster in 2011 for $22.4 million, according to Goldman. Known as the Blue Heron Farm, that 28.5-acre property featured a golf course, horse barn, and a swimming pool. The main house at that property is 5,118 square feet, while total living space covers 13,327 square feet.

http://money.msn.com/now/post--obamas-downsize-marthas-vineyard-vacation-rental

[AnotherMcIntosh]

111. Hopefully, everybody else on Martha's Vineyard knows that they're being spied upon.

Time will tell how much they like it.

[Douglas Carpenter]

70. well perhaps emotional, irrational and not living in the world of reality would be a better term

than idiot. So, I will use that less judgmental phrase - Anyone who thinks that Congress and the White House would be doing more or less the same in regards to the surveillance program or anyone who does not think that the current surveillance program is a dangerous threat to a free society is being emotional, irrational and not living in the world of reality.

[Logical]

72. I agree, "idiot" was maybe too strong. n-t

[BeyondGeography]

57. Completely fucking up your life for some bureaucratic review that may have happened anyway

Worth it for Ed?

[Logical]

61. Not sure. But no doubt the discussion is quicker and much different. n-t

[BeyondGeography]

71. Hopefully, it will help reasonable people feel more comfortable at the end of the day

Some people will always devoutly believe they're being lied to. They have their reasons, some of which are unhealthy. Which leaves Snowden where, exactly? Had he stayed put and confined his leaks to domestic surveillance, he'd be in a much better place.

[Logical]

74. I believe many times we are being lied to. Just knowing when is the problem. n-t

[AnotherMcIntosh]

109. Why have a bureaucratic review for something we're told is not happening and has not been?

[spin]

64. The problem is that five years from now the alphabet agencies will find loopholes ...

or means to cover up their invasions of our privacy.

The people we elect have to understand that while it is important to protect us against terrorism, if we lose our liberty, the terrorists will have won.

[Logical]

68. So true. Sometimes I think they won already. n-t

[spin]

87. I don't wear a tin foil hat but sometimes I will admit sometimes I wonder ...

who actually runs our nation.

It seems that no matter who we elect the policies remain basically the same.

[ZombieHorde]

156. Nobody runs "our nation."

People just do stuff, and we subjectively think some of it is important.

[LittleBlue]

65. They are sputtering to make sense of it all, aren't they?

All mental barriers they constructed to believe nonsensical security state propaganda are collapsing.

There were two supposedly ex-NSA members who assured me that Russia would extradite Snowden. I replied that they would not. They just laughed in their foolishness and assured me that since I'd never been part of an intelligence community, I knew nothing. They know who they are.

lolz

[Life Long Dem]

73. Snowden entertains me

A spy oh my.

And he still entertains me. But this Greenwald guy.

[ProSense]

80. He's in Russia being used to hype their human rights record.

Yup, he made a difference.

[Logical]

82. It is amazing the ass kicking you have took on Snowden, and still will not admit that....

Snowden made Obama all of the sudden willing to discuss spying. First press conference in months. The ACLU even says that they could never get Obama to discuss privacy.

At this point you will never admit Snowden caused this Administration to have this discussion.

Just more proof of your illogical bias.

[ProSense]

90. Snowden

It is amazing the ass kicking you have took on Snowden, and still will not admit that....

Snowden made Obama all of the sudden willing to discuss spying. First press conference in months. The ACLU even says that they could never get Obama to discuss privacy.

At this point you will never admit Snowden caused this Administration to have this discussion.

Just more proof of your illogical bias.

...fled to Russia. Just because he's your hero doesn't mean he's everyone's. What's with the nonsensical "ass kicking" comment? I mean, LOL!

Rep. John Lewis: No Praise for Snowden
Aug 8, 2013

“News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.

“ I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline.

“At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowden’s actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908

[flpoljunkie]

101. Snowden's plan was not to 'flee to Russia.' We made it impossible for him to leave.

[phleshdef]

121. Its not impossible. He can leave there and come here anytime he wants.

Its just the fact that HE would prefer to remain a fugitive from justice that keeps him from taking that option, not us.

[flpoljunkie]

133. We've all seen how Bradley Manning was treated under Obama's watch.

Snowden would be a fool to come back to the United States. We expected better from President Obama.

[phleshdef]

142. The military comes down pretty damn hard on people who commit crimes....

...and betray oaths they were sworn to uphold.

I don't agree with the length of Manning's solitary confinement, but he still committed crimes and went way beyond just exposing a war crime. He deserves punishment.

Having said that, Snowden wouldn't be handed over to the military and wouldn't be subject to their harsher standards. And he also deserves punishment.

[flpoljunkie]

185. What about the oath Pres Obama took to uphold the Constitution?

In particular, the Fourth Amendment.

[Android3.14]

158. One puppet punches out, and another punches in for the night shift.

Have a nice day, ProSense. Welcome to work phleshdef. Be sure to read the memo on registering all sock puppets in order to avoid unintentional conflict with your co-workers.

[NorthCarolina]

160. Ummm...maybe you hadn't noticed but WE TORTURE PRISONERS NOW.

You wouldn't have the balls to come back either. "Prefer to remain a fugitive".....clueless.

[Cha]

137. You mean like this? And, his followers twisting themselves into pretzels

to support Putin over PBO? It's working on some.

"These nations, including Russia, Venezuela, Bolivia, Nicaragua, and Ecuador have my gratitude and respect for being the first to stand against human rights violations."

http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html

Unfortunately snowden doesn't give a shit about Putin's stance on Gay People in Russia or any other person's civil rights as long as he's Putin's Puppet. "Russia Good USA Bad "

Dustin Lance Black Urges Hollywood to Confront Russia's Anti-Gay Laws

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023430113

[Enthusiast]

91. Kicked and Recommended!

It's a massive overreach.

I think the inspiration for this overreach is from their zeal to protect the criminal fraudster banks and overbloated military/intelligence industrial complex.

[baronjake]

98. Snowden didn't make a difference

You are assuming he did.

[cthulu2016]

126. How exciting to have fresh perspectives. Welcome to DU!

[Logical]

139. Yes, because Obama JUST HAPPENED to decide to discuss security and privacy all of....

the sudden!

[Zorra]

112. Occupy did not make a difference!!1! Oh, darn it, wrong memo. OK - Snowden did not

make a difference!!1!

[WillyT]

113. LOL !!! - Perfect !!!

[KoKo]

124. Yep...n/t

[leftstreet]

146. LOL

[another_liberal]

128. Snowden is a genuine American hero.

I hope the day is not far off when he will be officially recognized for his courage and the enormous good he has done.

[RC]

135. Maybe we can have a Edward Snowden holiday.

You know, on par with at least Martin Luther King. Hopefully, without killing the one being honored.

We don't have any national holidays in March, April, June or August.

[another_liberal]

148. I'm always in favor of another day off for ordinary Americans.

Each is so richly deserved. I also like how they give the one percent fits over their lost money.

[RC]

150. A federal, paid holiday

[another_liberal]

170. It doesn't have to be in honor of Snowden exclusively.

Call it: "Openness in Government Day."

[RC]

173. That could work. Remind people how government is supposed to work and who is supposed to be working

for who.

Put Snowden of an Forever stamp.

[orpupilofnature57]

129. The difference between a hypothetical scenerio and Reality .

[arely staircase]

138. snowden is sort of like

the burglar who reveals some unsafe wiring behind the stereo he took.

[Pholus]

163. Yeah like those new NSA panopticons...

And being installed by a federal intel contractor you KNOW those things are not up to code.

[DirkGently]

140. Yeah. That one's kind of out the window now. n/t

[ProSense]

145. NYT editorial: Snowden's "fears do not qualify him for asylum"

NYT editorial: Snowden's "fears do not qualify him for asylum"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023437384

[Logical]

149. Thanks for the bump! LOL

[think_critically]

151. So the consensus is that all of this should stop

Just curious. Do folks believe that the NSA should stop all of its electronic spying within the United States.

[kath]

152. FYI people, it's " all of A sudden" , not "all of the sudden"

My most recent usage pet peeve.
Carry on...

[Logical]

153. DU word police! Great! n-t

[AverageJoe90]

154. The only difference he may have made......was not a positive one.

That's for damn sure.

[Logical]

161. No, you are wrong. Without him no one would be discussing this. And you know it! n-t

[AverageJoe90]

182. Or so you've been led to believe, anyhow.

But a lot of this stuff had been going on since the middle of the last decade anyhow. And somebody would have leaked it eventually.....Snowden, however, just happened to do it at a somewhat critical moment, and one that ended up doing a bit of damage to the Obama administration, at the worst possible time. Why is that? Was it just incredibly bad timing? Or is there something more to it?

[Logical]

183. "somebody would have leaked it eventually".....

So why does it matter if it was Snowden now? It could of been Biden in 2016?

What difference does it make?

[AverageJoe90]

184. Lots of difference.

Again, look at when it was timed; this was during a major summit with Russia, and it ended up doing same damage to Obama at one of the worst possible times. And that's just one thing.

[Aerows]

166. The dishes aren't done

Snowden pointed it out so that everyone is aware that the dishes aren't done, despite repeated proposals and promises to do them. Saying you are going to do the dishes isn't the same as actually *doing* them, no matter how eloquently you state that you plan on doing them.

[Aerows]

165. He did

Obama is proposing to do the dishes now. They are still in the sink, and haven't been done, but now it's clear to everyone, including Obama that the dishes need to get done.

When they get done, it will be a good day, and the government can then prove that they, in fact, did the dishes.

Meanwhile, the dishes are still in the sink and everyone notices that they aren't done.

[Progressive dog]

168. Well, since changes started far before Eddie fled

to Hong Kong, I'll tell you again.

By July 8, dozens of federal agencies are required to tell the White House in detail how they plan to implement an order the president signed last October that prohibits retaliation against those who flag “waste, fraud and abuse” in intelligence programs to approved officials.

Obama signed the directive after Congress twice dropped intelligence workers from legislation meant to strengthen whistleblowing protections throughout the government. The lawmakers were responding in part to longstanding intelligence agency claims that those with access to highly sensitive national secrets must be treated differently than other U.S. employees and that they already had adequate redress for any grievances.

[link:http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/07/02/12920/new-protections-coming-disgruntled-intelligence-workers|

[Logical]

175. Really? So Snowdon then make this discussion any different? Nice try! n-t

[Progressive dog]

176. No he didn't, he just empowered the government

haters by exaggerating and sensationalizing, kind of like making up death panels for tea-baggers.
I think Shakespeare said it best

it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Logical]

177. Lol, yes, no one can analyze the NSA impact like you! So....

When Bush lied about weapons of mass distruction I guess he was telling the truth too? Us government haters didn't trust him?

[Progressive dog]

179. Well thank you, I thought you preffered

Eddie's analysis from Moscow. After all, he could listen in on the President while he was at Booz Allen.
He must have learned a lot from those conversations.

[kath]

174. Snowden has made a huge difference. probably not hyperbole to say that he has awakened a sleeping

Giant, as someone described it on another thread.
belated thanks for this thread

[Logical]

178. Thank you!! n-t

[Turbineguy]

180. Snowden has been a success

for the GOP and Libertarians judging by the amount of anti-Obama sentiment around here.

In actuality if the NSA was doing the kind of snooping they've been accused of they would need a budget which I conservatively estimate at $160 trillion per year.

[cherokeeprogressive]

181. Anyone with half a brain knows this press conference was scheduled TWO YEARS ago...

amiright?

[Logical]

186. True, it was a secret though! nt