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sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 08:36 PM Aug 2013

The Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories (So Far)

SNIP

I hasten to note that I’m leaving out anything from Alex Jones or other well-known conspiracy theorists, though it appears as if there’s a new litter of leftie conspiracy theorists emerging, some of whom will be mentioned below. I’m also not including self-debunked stories: for example, the posts that make outrageous claims as the lede or headline, then clarify (usually about the existence of court oversight and warrants) deep within the belly of the article itself. Furthermore, some of these items follow the 24-hour Rule: once a wild claim is made, it’s often clarified within a day or so, but only after the misleading claim has circumnavigated the internet several times over. That’s exactly what happened when it was reported that…



SNIP

8) The British GCHQ collects 21 petabytes of data every day from underwater fiber optic cables.

If you recall, this story began as a wild theory — literally — published on The Guardian, which subsequently morphed into reality as it jumped from publication to publication, including The Atlantic (no correction issued) and The Young Turks show on Current. This was a stupendously aggravating example of how shoddy reporting circulates through the tubes and is eventually repeated as fact.

How a Wild Theoretical Claim About the NSA Magically Transformed Into Factual Reality
By Bob Cesca · July 19,2013 Print Friendly

SNIP
On Thursday, I watched a video monologue by Cenk Uygur via the following tweet:

“Millions Of Gigabytes Collected Daily UNDERWATER By US, England http://bit.ly/1aToyme via @CenkUygur”

There’s one major problem with Cenk’s big screamer headline: it’s simply incorrect.

Once again, however, I hasten to preface that I still consider Cenk a friend, and this really isn’t intended to bash him personally. It turns out, Cenk stumbled into a modern game of journalistic “Telephone.” In case you’re the one person in the world who’s never played “Telephone,” here’s how it works. A phrase or a word is whispered into the ear of one person, then that person whispers the phrase into another ear, and so on. By the time the phrase works its way around the room, and due to memory lapses or misheard whispers, the phrase morphs into something completely different. The internet vastly enables this process.

Based on the post by The Atlantic, Cenk reported that, yes, the GCHQ taps into underwater cables and subsequently shares its intelligence with NSA. To the credit of both Cenk and The Atlantic, each made sure to mention that underwater cable-taps have been occurring for decades. In James Bamford’s book, Body of Secrets, we learned about Operation Ivy Bells during which the USS Halibut tapped into a Soviet telecommunications cable and gathered huge volumes of signal intelligence (SIGINT) until a leaker sold details of the operation to the KGB. Elsewhere, the New York Times reported on fiber optic cable taps back in 2005.

SNIP

And where did the New Scientist get this information?

The Guardian.


Specifically, the New Scientist linked to the original Snowden bombshell article from June 21 about GCHQ tapping underwater fiber optic cables. For what it’s worth, Glenn Greenwald didn’t contribute to this post. Ewen MacAskill, Julian Borger, Nick Hopkins, Nick Davies and James Ball are credited in the byline.

Here’s the only mention of “21 million gigabytes” or “21 petabytes” in the entire article:

Each of the cables carries data at a rate of 10 gigabits per second, so the tapped cables had the capacity, in theory, to deliver more than 21 petabytes a day – equivalent to sending all the information in all the books in the British Library 192 times every 24 hours.


http://thedailybanter.com/2013/07/how-a-wild-theoretical-claim-about-the-nsa-transformed-into-factual-reality/

7) President Obama is fighting a deliberate “war on whistleblowers.”

This isn’t necessarily specific to the NSA story, but it’s absolutely one of Greenwald’s preferred frames for whenever leakers or, in this case, Edward Snowden’s name is brought up. It insinuates that the president and the Justice Department are viciously persecuting any and all whistleblowers, irrespective of circumstances. We’re to infer that if you blow the whistle on the government, you’re doomed. This is simply untrue. As Charlie Savage reported in the New York Times, the so-called “war” is simply a matter of happenstance: leftover prosecutions from the Bush years, greater ease of digitally tracking leaks and so on. On top of this inconvenient reality, the president not only signed an executive order to protect legitimate whistleblowers in the intelligence community who expose “waste, fraud or abuse” via proper channels, but he also signed the Whistleblower Protection Enhancement Act last year.

6) The U.S. sentences whistleblowers to be tossed in “a cage for decades” and “disappeared.”

Greenwald said this on national broadcast television — twice — as a weak and false excuse for why perhaps Snowden fled the country to Hong Kong and Russia. The longest sentence handed down in this “war on whistleblowers” was 30 months, which is currently being served by John Kiriakou who blew the whistle on CIA torture, and who was prosecuted for outing the names of CIA officers. Elsewhere, yes, Bradley Manning could face up to 90 years in prison, but he hasn’t been sentenced yet. Even if he received the maximum sentence, he would be the first and only leaker to be imprisoned “for decades.”

http://thedailybanter.com/2013/08/the-top-nine-most-egregiously-inaccurate-nsa-stories-so-far/

109 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
The Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories (So Far) (Original Post) sheshe2 Aug 2013 OP
Let's put together a list of the NSA's top 10 appologists. 1-Old-Man Aug 2013 #1
lol, there should be a ranking system quinnox Aug 2013 #4
Well thank you~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #11
too many to list quinnox Aug 2013 #17
So shall we make that the top 100... sheshe2 Aug 2013 #23
I wouldn't want to leave anyone out accidently quinnox Aug 2013 #26
Does that mean you have no list? sheshe2 Aug 2013 #27
I definitely have my favorites, but quinnox Aug 2013 #34
Funny thing is... 99Forever Aug 2013 #6
And, all you have are personal ignorant attacks and insults. you are Cha Aug 2013 #9
It really is silly though-- there aren't enough of you anymore. Marr Aug 2013 #89
the whole lot (around 10) will probably make an appearence in this thread, too usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #95
Aaaah tools, nice. sheshe2 Aug 2013 #12
Good... 99Forever Aug 2013 #18
yes... millions with no understanding of the technologies involved ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #20
I understand just fine, wiseguy. 99Forever Aug 2013 #28
wow... that's pretty dramatic ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #30
Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #37
more insults, i see ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #39
If facts insult you, that's your problem. 99Forever Aug 2013 #41
wow... you can't even own your insults... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #43
**** 99Forever Aug 2013 #45
hot damn... it's the copy/paste machine ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #46
What you say is irrelevant. This isn't: 99Forever Aug 2013 #47
you seem to think i disagree with you on the 4th Amendment ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #49
Bullshit. 99Forever Aug 2013 #50
ah... now YOU'RE omnipotent... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #51
Save it for the Amen crowd. 99Forever Aug 2013 #53
You're squeezing a balloon full of hate air. randome Aug 2013 #57
Why is it that you feel the need to insult and belittle everyone? sheshe2 Aug 2013 #55
they can't make a valid point to support their position ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #56
I know PJM, kinda sad in a way. sheshe2 Aug 2013 #58
lol.. well said, PJM. Cha Aug 2013 #66
So you equate posting a pic of a guillotine with "facts" and all your other silly Cha Aug 2013 #68
Thank you for that response PJM~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #42
What a laugh...you understand the tech better than Ed Snowden. wtmusic Aug 2013 #73
i understand it better than you ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #74
You have no fucking idea what I know wtmusic Aug 2013 #75
and you have no idea what i know... ProdigalJunkMail Aug 2013 #76
Millions! OMG! Millions? sheshe2 Aug 2013 #31
Asked and answered. 99Forever Aug 2013 #36
He could be right Andy823 Aug 2013 #59
Yep. Once you add the Tea Party to the Paulbots, that's definitely millions. Number23 Aug 2013 #99
LOL.. "millions" of you.. rofl I certainly hope not for the sake of Cha Aug 2013 #69
I would call them useful idiots, OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #60
I see you too, Senor Quixote. Californeeway Aug 2013 #88
So all you have are insults to a poster who is bringing an article Cha Aug 2013 #7
Intimidation techniques display a lack jazzimov Aug 2013 #8
Did they even read the article? sheshe2 Aug 2013 #25
There are no 'apologists' on this thread. Only those who look calmly at the facts. randome Aug 2013 #10
+1! sheshe2 Aug 2013 #40
They may be inaccuracies but the issue that concerns me is one that Obama has admitted - JDPriestly Aug 2013 #105
...then they get laugh at you uponit7771 Aug 2013 #13
It's OK...you can wrap yourself in the latest Huffington Post lede CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #14
I would be honored~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #33
So, if we prefer to traffic in facts as opposed to falsehoods Californeeway Aug 2013 #91
That's why I appreciated this article. I have deep issue w/NSA, Patriot Act etc KittyWampus Aug 2013 #108
I think there's only about 10 usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #94
This message was self-deleted by its author quinnox Aug 2013 #2
I knew the "Telephone" game by a different name, "Grapevine". jazzimov Aug 2013 #3
We called it "Whisper down the lane" BumRushDaShow Aug 2013 #82
This "Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories" needed to be posted! .. Cha Aug 2013 #5
Da spin, da spin, da spin~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #19
Yes! Pass or Fail is our grading. And, those who have already Failed are the ones Cha Aug 2013 #35
Nor Dignity~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #44
Exactly, she. Cha Aug 2013 #48
Like this guy at his presser.. Cha Aug 2013 #52
K/R CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #15
Can't the raving paranoids go start SnowdenUnderground DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #16
Difficult to start a religious order when your 'messiah' wants nothing to do with his followers. randome Aug 2013 #21
Raving paranoids? burnodo Aug 2013 #22
Say what? Did you read a different transcript? randome Aug 2013 #24
When you're brainwashed with the OPs NSA bullshit stories.. Cha Aug 2013 #38
Logic and reason are increasingly futile here CakeGrrl Aug 2013 #62
+1 uponit7771 Aug 2013 #54
So are you saying massive amounts of data are not being collected? mindwalker_i Aug 2013 #29
Yes, massive amounts of meta data are collected... DontTreadOnMe Aug 2013 #32
companies probably collect more data than the NSA Rosa Luxemburg Aug 2013 #61
You're really going with that line? A defense of NSA? DisgustipatedinCA Aug 2013 #67
Pertinent Tweet from John Miller today, she.. Cha Aug 2013 #63
The answer is yes~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #64
Carry on in your Cha Aug 2013 #65
I'm a little surprised none of the most inaccurate stories came FROM the government, hughee99 Aug 2013 #70
K&R Grateful for Hope Aug 2013 #71
K&R sheshe! The Whisper Game... Whisp Aug 2013 #72
Thank you Whisp~ sheshe2 Aug 2013 #79
LOL, 17 recs! Congrats! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #77
Why thank you Logical....LOL back at you! sheshe2 Aug 2013 #80
Are you filling in for this shift? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #81
It's my OP, Logical... sheshe2 Aug 2013 #83
Well, you whined about a "crew" so you started the false accusations! You... Logical Aug 2013 #84
Well Logical, sheshe2 Aug 2013 #85
Quit whining! You have a tin foil hat on? ...... Logical Aug 2013 #86
What does... sheshe2 Aug 2013 #90
I see this one's obsession with ProSense is taking a break and Cha Aug 2013 #87
Somewhere George W. Bush and Dick Cheney are laughing their asses off MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #78
K & R Scurrilous Aug 2013 #92
Kickin it 'cause I can! Cha Aug 2013 #93
I think i overestimated your numbers usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #96
I don't think it matters what you overestimate. Cha Aug 2013 #97
yeah, well usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #98
Just that you keep kicking the thread. Cha Aug 2013 #101
yep, so everyone sees the comments usGovOwesUs3Trillion Aug 2013 #102
I think you should be enjoying your tombstone. KittyWampus Aug 2013 #109
I could make my own list. There seems to be no quest for facts in DevonRex Aug 2013 #100
So true.. but, I don't think it's for them. that would be wasted Cha Aug 2013 #103
You're right. It's for us. DevonRex Aug 2013 #106
Perfect visual for Cha Aug 2013 #107
That the government is tracking our metadata pretty much without limitations in this JDPriestly Aug 2013 #104
 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
4. lol, there should be a ranking system
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:09 PM
Aug 2013

with daily tracking of who is up and who is down. I agree, the OP would be moving up the rankings, as a rising star!

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
11. Well thank you~
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:15 PM
Aug 2013

And your list, quinnox?

Who is the ranking star in the Snowden supporters list? That is when it is about Snowden.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
17. too many to list
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:19 PM
Aug 2013

There are too many good progressives/liberals here on DU who support Snowden. I can't narrow it down to 10 only.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
26. I wouldn't want to leave anyone out accidently
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:26 PM
Aug 2013

So many good smart progressives on here, I adore them all! I'm a "fanboy" of most of them, enjoy reading their insight and thoughts.

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
27. Does that mean you have no list?
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:29 PM
Aug 2013

I could start one for you, however in reality, I don't think it is as big as you believe.

 

quinnox

(20,600 posts)
34. I definitely have my favorites, but
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:33 PM
Aug 2013

that is for me to know. Though occasionally, I will let them know in public posting, how much of a fan-boy I might be of them.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
89. It really is silly though-- there aren't enough of you anymore.
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:38 AM
Aug 2013

Anyone who posts here with any degree of regularity notices it's the same 20 or so voices always promoting the official administration talking points.

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
20. yes... millions with no understanding of the technologies involved
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:22 PM
Aug 2013

and yet are running around with their hair on fire claiming everything short of telekinesis.

and a few... who look at facts and grasp the tech and know that the millions are going to cause a run on tin foil... very soon.

sP

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
28. I understand just fine, wiseguy.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:29 PM
Aug 2013
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
30. wow... that's pretty dramatic
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:30 PM
Aug 2013

you gonna cut my head off?

and no, you don't understand the tech or you wouldn't be pushing this garbage.

sP

Response to ProdigalJunkMail (Reply #30)

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
39. more insults, i see
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:43 PM
Aug 2013

you see, i understand The Constitution just fine. and i don't like that our gov't is doing some of the things it is doing and i would agree with you that they need to stop. the problem is people like you who seem to be willing to believe that the NSA can read your mind from 1000 miles away with their whizzy technology. and you call people who point out how wrong you are nasty little names as if your attempt to belittle them somehow makes your position stronger... it's really kind of sad.

keep slinging that mud... hope they make tin-foil thick enough to protect you.

sP

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
43. wow... you can't even own your insults...
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:49 PM
Aug 2013

this is very telling.

or perhaps your use of 'tool', 'wise guy' and 'brain child' were meant as complements? nah... i think i got it right the first time.

sP

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
45. ****
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:51 PM
Aug 2013

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

99Forever

(14,524 posts)
47. What you say is irrelevant. This isn't:
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:54 PM
Aug 2013

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
49. you seem to think i disagree with you on the 4th Amendment
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:56 PM
Aug 2013

and you'd be wrong... i disagree with your belief in NSA omnipotence and omnipresence.

sP

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
51. ah... now YOU'RE omnipotent...
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:00 PM
Aug 2013

got it.

thank you for a fun evening of DU 'whack-a-mole'... too bad you couldn't actually make a valid point or support your belief in magic being wielded by the sorcerers over at the NSA.

sP

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
57. You're squeezing a balloon full of hate air.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:08 PM
Aug 2013

The balloon changes shape but maintains its volume. Where will all the hate go now that Snowden is a recluse and Obama is reforming the NSA?

Time to let the air out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
55. Why is it that you feel the need to insult and belittle everyone?
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:06 PM
Aug 2013

That is all you have done in this thread. Why is that?

"You know an apologist when you smell one"?

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
56. they can't make a valid point to support their position
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:07 PM
Aug 2013

so this is what they do... it's kind of fun after a while watching them spin and fling shit everywhere thinking that they're winning.

sP

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
58. I know PJM, kinda sad in a way.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 10:24 PM
Aug 2013

They never both to read the links, they just do the knee jerk thing.

The guillotine was such a nice touch don't you think?

She~

Cha

(297,180 posts)
68. So you equate posting a pic of a guillotine with "facts" and all your other silly
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:10 AM
Aug 2013

insults you throw around with "facts".

You do need a crash course in The Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories (So Far)!

ProdigalJunkMail

(12,017 posts)
74. i understand it better than you
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:39 PM
Aug 2013

and yeah, probably better than Snowden given his position... but you think what you want.

sP

wtmusic

(39,166 posts)
75. You have no fucking idea what I know
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:44 PM
Aug 2013

and you show all the hallmarks and braggadocio of a noob.

Enjoy your world.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
59. He could be right
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:00 PM
Aug 2013

You have to take all the libertarians, Paulbots, Obama hater, and we can't forget the teaparty crowd, add that to the small number here on DU, and he just might hit a million. Of course I could be wrong!

Number23

(24,544 posts)
99. Yep. Once you add the Tea Party to the Paulbots, that's definitely millions.
Mon Aug 12, 2013, 01:54 AM
Aug 2013

Though as the Pauls ascend, the Tea Party descends so they kind of cancel each other out.

In the meantime, only 51% of Russians (who are living under a genuine authoritarian regime) approve of Snowden's actions. You would think that if anyone in the world would appreciate Snowden, it would be Russian citizens.

A mid-July poll found that 51% of Russians approved of Snowden's whistleblowing activities and 43% supported granting him asylum in the country. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/02/edward-snowden-asylum-russia-reaction


Was shocked by how low that number was.

Cha

(297,180 posts)
69. LOL.. "millions" of you.. rofl I certainly hope not for the sake of
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:18 AM
Aug 2013

the Planet.

Yeah, you're very much on display with your little "We see you" schtick.. like you're some kind of big brother know it all. Isn't that what you think is happening? And, now you're playing at it?

Cha

(297,180 posts)
7. So all you have are insults to a poster who is bringing an article
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:11 PM
Aug 2013

over on bullshit NSA stories?

You have no merit.

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
8. Intimidation techniques display a lack
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:13 PM
Aug 2013

of conviction.

Just curious, do you have anything to add to the discussion, or do you just wish to make sure everyone agrees with you?

Do you have a question, or do you just rely on dogma?

Do you actually know anything about the discussion at all?

If so, please share.

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
25. Did they even read the article?
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:26 PM
Aug 2013

That's another good question. However I know the answer. They did not.

Thanks Jazz~

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
10. There are no 'apologists' on this thread. Only those who look calmly at the facts.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:14 PM
Aug 2013

The 10 inaccuracies listed are inaccuracies, correct?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
105. They may be inaccuracies but the issue that concerns me is one that Obama has admitted -
Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:46 AM
Aug 2013

that the NSA tracks our metadata.

It is fine to obtain the phone records as a part of a specific investigation.

But it is overly intrusive and a violation not just of the Fourth Amendment but of a number of other rights for the government to obtain the metadata of hundreds of thousands if not millions of people.

It chills our right to free speech about political issues, about things like the environment, corporate bribery of our Congress and other political officials and many, many other things. It intrudes on our right of freedom of association because the government can see in our phone and internet and other electronic communication records with whom we associate, with whom we meet and talk and perhaps even in some cases get transcripts of our communications without a warrant.

It isn't the arguably misleading information that concerns me. I don't care about how many millions of calls or how many hundreds of thousands of calls are intercepted at the cables. Those details don't concern me. I don't need to understand that degree of technical information to know that if the government is looking at my telephone bills, they know what church I belong to, what civic organizations and clubs I belong to, who my family members are, where I shop, who repairs my car . . . . They know where I go to have my hair done and when, what doctors i visit. They know everything about me. Now, in my case, I assume they don't care. i'm not a political leader. My personal life is uncontroversial I think. But I care about the principle of it. It is not right that the government is tracking people through their metadata. That must stop. It chills our exercise of every right we have under the Constitution.

And it especially chills the rights of journalists, lawyers, judges, members of legislative bodies at all levels of government. It is just appalling.

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
14. It's OK...you can wrap yourself in the latest Huffington Post lede
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:17 PM
Aug 2013
WHISTLEBLOWER WINS!

So, since he's 'won', will you talk him back to the U.S. to collect his awards and his Nobel Peace Prize petition so that he can speak out for his cause and rub his 'victory' in the NSA's (and President Obama's, of course) faces?

Californeeway

(97 posts)
91. So, if we prefer to traffic in facts as opposed to falsehoods
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:42 AM
Aug 2013

that means we eagerly support a police state?

Hell, I've been bitching about the Patriot Act for over a decade. I still don't appreciate so-called civil liberties advocates making up dumb bullshit that is easily debunked. It reflects poorly on all of us and undermines the argument against the NSA.

You shouldn't have to lie to make your point, if you have to lie, that's a clear sign that your point is bullshit.

the truth is more than enough to build consensus around reforms. Let's not undermine that by unquestioningly accepting every crazy conspiracy theory that comes along.

 

KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
108. That's why I appreciated this article. I have deep issue w/NSA, Patriot Act etc
Tue Aug 13, 2013, 06:19 PM
Aug 2013

but prefer to stick to facts.

Response to sheshe2 (Original post)

jazzimov

(1,456 posts)
3. I knew the "Telephone" game by a different name, "Grapevine".
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:07 PM
Aug 2013

As a telephone Tech Support Trainer, I always emphasize that the most important aspect is not technical knowledge, but communication. I can't tell you in my previous position how many times a call was escalated to me because the person was troubleshooting the wrong thing - because of improper communication.

Whenever there is a dialog between 2 people, 6 things actually happen;

1. Speaker - there is what they MEAN to say
2. Speaker - there is what they ACTUALLY said.
3. Speaker - there is what they THINK they said (which is almost never what they actually said)
4. Listener - there is what they HEARD
5. Listener - there is what they THINK they heard
6. Listener - there is what they think the Speaker MEANT to say

In a perfect world, #6 would match #1. It almost never does.

Cha

(297,180 posts)
5. This "Top 10 Most Inaccurate and Exaggerated NSA Stories" needed to be posted! ..
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:10 PM
Aug 2013

Thank you, she!

So much bullshit coming from greenwald and others.. so little time.

From your link...

3) NSA admits listening to U.S. phone calls without warrants.

That was the exact CNET headline. (I’m not sure how an agency can admit something, but I nitpick.) CNET chief political correspondent Declan McCullagh published a selectively edited exchange between Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-NY) and then-FBI Director Robert Mueller, and extrapolated their confusing and brief conversation into evidence that NSA has been eavesdropping on American citizens without any court orders or oversight. As we observed with Rep. Lewis this week, Rep. Nadler issued a statement the following day denying CNET’s story. 24 hours later, like clockwork, McCullagh changed the headline and issued an update.

this is de rigueur for "Fighting back the Bullshit 101"!

Mahalo, she!

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
19. Da spin, da spin, da spin~
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:22 PM
Aug 2013

It makes you dizzy!

Thanks Cha, love the Bullshit 101 course that is being taken. Do you know what the grading curve is going to be? Or maybe it will be just a Pass or Fail!

Cha

(297,180 posts)
35. Yes! Pass or Fail is our grading. And, those who have already Failed are the ones
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:33 PM
Aug 2013

who aren't capable of having a discussion about your OP.. can only bring Ignorant personal attacks to the table.

they have no honor.

 

DontTreadOnMe

(2,442 posts)
16. Can't the raving paranoids go start SnowdenUnderground
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:18 PM
Aug 2013

make sure the forum in encrypted! Otherwise all your posts will be recorded!

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
21. Difficult to start a religious order when your 'messiah' wants nothing to do with his followers.
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:23 PM
Aug 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

 

randome

(34,845 posts)
24. Say what? Did you read a different transcript?
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:26 PM
Aug 2013

[hr][font color="blue"][center]There is nothing you can't do if you put your mind to it.
Nothing.
[/center][/font][hr]

CakeGrrl

(10,611 posts)
62. Logic and reason are increasingly futile here
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 11:45 PM
Aug 2013

So once again, I ask: If the pro-Snowden crowd is immovably convinced that they, apparently as of about 5-6 weeks ago, have just been awakened to the idea that they're living under a totalitarian, always-lying, torture-and-kill regime,

Why are they still here?

And why are they still shrieking about the government on this unsecured forum, if it's a foregone conclusion that they're being monitored?

Never mind. No logic here.

mindwalker_i

(4,407 posts)
29. So are you saying massive amounts of data are not being collected?
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:30 PM
Aug 2013

Granted, some headlines are exaggerated, which is kind of bound to happen. Does that mean that a lot of data isn't being collected? If it doesn't mean that, does it mean that we shouldn't be concerned about the data being collected?

 

DontTreadOnMe

(2,442 posts)
32. Yes, massive amounts of meta data are collected...
Fri Aug 9, 2013, 09:32 PM
Aug 2013

by Google. If you need to see how it works, just look at the banner up on the top of this page.

 

DisgustipatedinCA

(12,530 posts)
67. You're really going with that line? A defense of NSA?
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:06 AM
Aug 2013

That makes my skin crawl. Thanks for making the quality of your character clear, I guess.

Cha

(297,180 posts)
63. Pertinent Tweet from John Miller today, she..
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:25 AM
Aug 2013

john miller @deaconmill

Once and for all, can we get it straight. Snowden is not a whistleblower and not one person has been prosecuted for whistleblowing by Obama.

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/08/09/keep-chatting-5/

Has your thread descended into another greenwald propaganda hell hole, yet?

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
64. The answer is yes~
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:30 AM
Aug 2013

However the peeps that believe in facts are here too.

For me I gotta go Cha~

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
70. I'm a little surprised none of the most inaccurate stories came FROM the government,
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 01:27 AM
Aug 2013

but then, I guess they always strive to give the least untruthful answers possible.

 

Whisp

(24,096 posts)
72. K&R sheshe! The Whisper Game...
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 12:56 PM
Aug 2013

That is Exactly the right phrase to use.

And it should be embarrassing to believe and get caught up in all the lies spewed when they are proven to be Whisper Games. People are funny. And stupid. Whole lot of tons of that around lately.

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
79. Thank you Whisp~
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 10:18 PM
Aug 2013

You are correct, it should be embarrassing. However doesn't seem to stop some of the posters here.

Yikes...pictures of guillotines~

Whisp!

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
80. Why thank you Logical....LOL back at you!
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 10:28 PM
Aug 2013

Seventy eight replies too.

Such a dead post...so why did the crew move in so rapidly to insult it. It is stupid and means nothing....so why the reaction...Hmmm?! The wrecking crew...Hmmm!?

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
83. It's my OP, Logical...
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 11:02 PM
Aug 2013

Worked 12 hours today and came home to a response to said OP! Responded to your comment.

Hmmmm, my shift? WOW the CT theories about paid posters is hillarious!

It was also addressed by Skinner...

This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.

It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.


Here~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592697

Well said Skinner!
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
84. Well, you whined about a "crew" so you started the false accusations! You...
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 11:44 PM
Aug 2013

Cannot throw out shit and not get shit back! Skinner would think your "crew" comment was just as nutty!

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
85. Well Logical,
Sat Aug 10, 2013, 11:51 PM
Aug 2013

IMHO you tossed it at me first.

You scoffed that my OP only had 17 recs's. It certainly drew a lot of attention. Can you deny that a "crew was here to insult me and other posters that expressed their thoughts of the OP.

Can you really say that?

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
86. Quit whining! You have a tin foil hat on? ......
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 12:04 AM
Aug 2013

No one has ever texted me to respond to any post. Nor have I texted anyone!

Believe me, many here disagree with you on Snowden. And respond when they want. I know I don't need to be told.

Just like you do to posts complaining about how Obama handled this.

So your crew comment was a false accusation, and then you whine when you get some back. Classy!

sheshe2

(83,748 posts)
90. What does...
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:41 AM
Aug 2013
No one has ever texted me to respond to any post. Nor have I texted anyone!


texting have to do with this. I didn't text you. I responded to your DU post!????

Believe me, many here disagree with you on Snowden. And respond when they want. I know I don't need to be told.


You can disagree on what I post about Snowden all you want, When did I saw that you could not. I would prefer that it was fact based and not a personal attack, but do as you see fit.

Just like you do to posts complaining about how Obama handled this.


When have I complained about how Obama handled this?!

Cha

(297,180 posts)
87. I see this one's obsession with ProSense is taking a break and
Sun Aug 11, 2013, 02:17 AM
Aug 2013

flinging taunts like a playground bully at you, she.

Mocking 'cause there's only "17 Rec" like he doesn't know shite about the difference between quantity and Quality.

DevonRex

(22,541 posts)
100. I could make my own list. There seems to be no quest for facts in
Mon Aug 12, 2013, 01:58 AM
Aug 2013

Snowden & Greenwald's fan base so I doubt it's worth my time. They just want to be spoon-fed outrage pablum. In their defense, that's society these days. People going from one rush to another, one drama to another.

Meh. What're you gonna do?

Cha

(297,180 posts)
103. So true.. but, I don't think it's for them. that would be wasted
Mon Aug 12, 2013, 02:15 AM
Aug 2013

space. More for those of us who are open to not believing what being pushed by greenwald/snowden. I've always thought of greenwald as a pusher of propaganda so the leap was non existent for me.

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
104. That the government is tracking our metadata pretty much without limitations in this
Mon Aug 12, 2013, 03:35 AM
Aug 2013

age of very fast computers and algorithms is enough to cause me to be vehemently opposed to the NSA program.

I don't need the possibly hyped stories to know that our human rights under the Bill of Rights are being violated every day.

Just the idea that we are under surveillance chills our speech. This is, as I understand it, particularly true for the environmentalists among us.

Kriakou should not be in jail at all. The torturers should have been prosecuted, not Kriakou.

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