General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsEFF analysis of NSA announcements: Devil's in the details.
Probably the most cogent summary of my concerns I've seen. Please visit there are supporting links at the EFF site.
Obama made 4 specific commitments around NSA surveillance. Heres an overview of what he did and did not promise to do.
1. Obama will work with Congress to "pursue appropriate reforms to Section 215 of the Patriot Act." This is the subsection of law used to justify the bulk collection of telephone records. Several bills have been introduced this Congress that attempt to tighten up this law, and were glad to see Obama will be supportive of such efforts. However, Obama pointedly did not address Sec. 702, the other statute that the government has cited as supporting its broader surveillance, including the content of communications. And as weve explained, to return Americans to the rule of law and privacy and free speech rights that they deserve, well need changes well beyond Section 215 of the PATRIOT Act. And even as to 215, Obama failed to explain what "appropriate reforms" might look like. Read what EFF thinks should be in NSA reform legislation.
2. Obama will work with Congress to improve public confidence in the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) by creating a public advocate that can defend privacy in the court. We were pleased that Obama specifically promised "to make sure civil liberties concerns have an independent voice, in appropriate cases, by ensuring that the government's position is challenged by an adversary" in the extremely secretive FISC. This could be a powerful reform, and one we would wholeheartedly support (especially, for example, if organizations like EFF can serve as the adversary on occasion). However, whether this is actually implemented in a meaningful way remains to be seen. A public advocate in the FISC should be involved in every proceeding, not just "in appropriate cases." Furthermore, that advocate would need full access to the materials the government will be using in presenting its case to the judge. And finally, we remain concerned that this position will be subject to capture unless it has at least the sort of independence and protections that public defenders enjoy.
3. Obama has directed the intelligence community "to make public as much information about these programs as possible." First, "these programs" must include "all surveillance programs," not just those that have been leaked so far. The NSA is supposed to put in place a full time civil liberties and privacy officer and create a website that details its surveillance practices. This should have happened long ago, though we think this is a step in the right direction. However, any such website must actually provide real answers about surveillance rather than obfuscations and word games.
4. Obama is creating a "high level group of outside experts to review our entire intelligence and communications technologies." This group will be tasked with creating an interim report in 60 days and a final report by the end of the year that should address the impact of surveillance technologies, including potential abuses as well as the impact on foreign policy. Were not certain whether Obama is planning on having the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board fulfill this role or whether he is planning on creating a new board, but it is very clear that any group of experts will struggle to have independence, adequate subpoena power, resources and staff time, as well as the political clout necessary to have a meaningful impact on our current surveillance regime. We hope that Obama ensures that this expert board has the information it needs to do its job.
They also have a nifty timeline!
ProSense
(116,464 posts)Good proposal.
Excellent proposal, that's been ignored by most critics of the President's speech.
Another good proposal.
This has been mocked by those intending to dimiss everything the President proposed, but if implemented as stated above, it could have a very postive influence similar to the group proposed for the FISA court.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)It's a shame it took the Snowden event to bring it about.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Deficit Commission, I am waiting to see who the outside experts will be before jumping for joy.
Eg, this does NOT need to be 'bi-partisan'. We have some excellent Civil Liberties Orgs who have been kept far away from these policies for over a decade now. We need EXPERTS on Civil Liberties and the US Constitution not people like Clapper eg who have a huge conflict of interest.
If he goes to those experts, then I will give him all the credit he would deserve. It is way late to be doing this, there should ALWAYS have been adversarial entities involved in these processes. The fact that he acknowledges there never have been, is a step towards admitting how utterly wrong all of this has been from the beginning.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
ProSense
(116,464 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)I understand that in a Press Conference you cannot go into much detail, but action will need to be taken right away, now that the outline has been announced.
Another concern, as expressed by EFF, who will be on these 'task forces'? We already have some great Civil Liberties Organizations. There is NO NEED to create new ones. IF that turns out to be the case, people are going to be very skeptical about all of this.
That it took so long, over a decade, to provide some 'adversarial' entities to challenge the Government on these secret proceedings is absolute proof of just far off the rails this Democracy has gone. It should be inconceivable to have policies such as these go virtually unchallenged by anyone for so long a period of time.
I believe also, and I hope the President understands this, that speeches won't do it anymore, or will claims of 'terror' etc.
This is what we need to let them know. We expect terror acts to occur, it is a given all over the planet.
We expect them to be handled as they used to be and still are by other civilized nations, our way has apparently, according to the President's own assessment, completely failed, we have only grown extremism and are less safe now after billions of dollars and more than a decade of killing people.
It's a start, but 'fool me once' as the infamous creator of all of this said. We are all older and wiser than we were just a few years ago.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Is Clapper needs to be punished over that testimony. Others need to know that it is not ok to lie about these things.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)rule of law. I have not seen even one official demand to at least censure him for lying to Congress. That shows how much work there is to do to drag this country out of the gutter it was kicked into with such disdain by Bush and his fellow lying War Criminals, speaking of lying to Congress.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Pretty detailed as well.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)because they always post...but, never give links...and this is "Nifty" because, if we have it handy, we have "power" at our fingertips.
Again...Thanks.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)I agree -- the devil IS in the details. And the "details" is exactly where I have had a problem with many of the Administration's policies (i.e. Keystone Pipeline, chained CPI, ACA/no public option, TTP, etc.).
KoKo
(84,711 posts)we out here are CLUELESS. That all of us watch the Cables and that Either Tweety, Hayes Rachel or some Faux News LINE UP of Propagandists Rule Us..in our thinking!
They think either NPR Propagandizing on the Left or FAUX News and their MIC Bloggers are the ONLY MEDIA that we out here see!
They've forgotten how Resourceful the Enlightened Folk ARE out here in the USA that we Didn't WAKE UP to what they are doing and have found other Resources out there on the Spied Upon Net.
They Think we are Uninformed and Easily Manipulated by Branding, Advertising and Spin from the MASTERS OF SPIN.
Yeah...sorry for the shouting......for Emphasis. But, they don't realize their own Competence in Spin has caused and is causing a Huge Backlash..amongst the Creatives..
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)ARE still clueless. Shit, there are some on DU who are frickin' clueless. The PTB have counted on it in the past, and continue to count on it today because it is largely still true. When I talk to friends out IRL I come off like some sort of mystical Oracle -- too many times they are hearing info from me for the first time. And these are smart, socially conscious people in SF. With that said -
Access to the Net has given us an edge that was absent in the past. It has empowered our education and activism in truly world-changing ways. And, make no mistake, TPTB have taken notice and recognize it is dangerous. I think that is one reason for the increased across the board spying, whistleblower crackdown, and propaganda push. The political luddites keep playing the old snow-job game, but the smart ones know the power of the Net collective and are busy finding ways to shut that power down. We have the perfect example right here -- how many new posters have come on board since the NSA spying scandal broke, both trying to diffuse the legitimate anger/convince us there is nothing wrong and others to push for further NSA exposure? The new game is afoot.
The PTB are in full freak out mode, becoming Kevin Bacon in "Animal House": "All is well, ALL IS WELL!!"
Well I for one ain't buying it.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)The HUGE PUSH BACK...we see here and other places.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)hootinholler
(26,449 posts)When it comes to network matters and the ways privacy is impacted, they are quite authoritative.
I certainly hope they have a seat at the table of people sorting this out.