The eeriest thing just happened:

[Brigid]

I was sitting in Burger King (I know, I know -- that was my first mistake). This is the same Burger King where, years ago when I lived here in Indy before, I spotted a guy at another table with a holstered weapon, abruptly decided that I didn't want the rest of my Whopper after all, and got the hell out. But I digress.

I was reading John Dominic Crossan's fascinating and accessible "God and Empire." I am getting toward the end, where he gets to talking about, of all things, fundie-style apocalyptic prophecy (He didn't put it that way, but you get the idea). He lays out extremely clearly just what it is these people believe. He also talks about author Paul Boyer's book "When Time Shall be No More." In it, Crossan says, Boyer talks about Hal Lindsey's "The Late Great Planet Earth." Boyer describes how Lindsey claims that after his book was published (1970, I believe) he was invited to speak at the American Air War College. Lindsey says that virtually the whole school turned out; and when he spoke at the Pentagon it was SRO and then some.

Crossan's point is that these people are fucking dangerous (my words, not his; he's a little more diplomatic). I first ran into this stuff back in my Marine Corps days, and occasionally after that. Part of why I became a Catholic is that Catholics just don't go for it. I didn't realize just how pervasive this thinking was in the military. I don't think this is really the mindset we want if we're trying to live peacefully in this world. But then, making peace does not seem to be what this country is about anymore, if it ever was.

But here is the eerie part: As I was reading, I became aware of three people sitting together in another booth. Because the place was almost empty except for me and for them, I could hear them perfectly, even with my not-so-great hearing.They were talking about -- you guessed it -- the "end times." It was almost as if they were there to illustrate Crossan's point: that this kind of magical thinking is out there, and it's dangerous.

To add to all this, before I left to go get something to eat, I was watching a program about -- wait for it -- dangerous cults like the Branch Davidians and the People's Temple.

So how was your day?

[PDJane]

1. Sigh. It must be the week for religious nuts.

I have been discussing abortion with a friend who won't change his mind and can't change the subject. He informed me that all abortion is a sin, including the abortions meant to save the life of the mother.,...and told me my abortion was a sin. The one I had because I had a Lippes loop in place, and managed to get pregnant anyway. You know, the one to save my life.

Oh, yeah, and he believes in the rapture too, the only Canadian I've met who does.

[Brigid]

2. Sounds like you need new friends.

This guy isn't one.

[PDJane]

3. Not really, no.

He's a member of a recycling group. It's a good cause, and I tolerate him.

That tolerance has come to an end. This weeks' conversations have left me utterly gobsmacked.......but it does prove that this kind of odd orthodoxy is contagious.

[roguevalley]

8. I think the country has been in a depression since 2000. I think its easy to talk about it

because I think a lot of people feel it would be easier to end this than continue.

[TomClash]

13. When I read this . . .

. . . I wanted to abort him.

[nomorenomore08]

14. He really has some balls talking to a woman - no less one who's had an abortion - that way.

I'm not one to advocate violence, but this guy sounds like he deserves a good backhand.

[PDJane]

17. Unfortunately, the local constabulary frown on things like that...arsenic, physical violence....

but I admit it was seriously tempting. I wondered, in retrospect, if I might not have gotten assistance, too.....we were in a coffee shop, and he was getting furious glares and raised eyebrows.....

[nomorenomore08]

19. Some people just have no shame, and/or no idea how to act in public.

[SheilaT]

15. I was silenced a young fundie by pointing

out that if he didn't believe in abortion, he shouldn't have one.

While there are women who share your acquaintance's point of view, they are far less common than the men who think that way. Ask him if he's ever had an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. No? Then what makes him think he's entitled to pontificate about something that can never possibly happen to him.

I so totally hate people like him that I'm not very rational on the topic.

[NYC_SKP]

4. This is why I dine at the Olive Garden...

The worst you might overhear would be complaints about HAARP and chemtrails...

Seriously, though, your experience:

[LongTomH]

5. I know how you feel! My cousins (on my mom's side) read all this shit!

End times books -- along with Beckerhead's trash, like Agenda 21. I don't spend a lot of time with that side of the family anymore.

The funny thing is, my Mom was the quietest, most tolerant person you'd want to meet. She was actually pretty liberal in her opinions; she though even higher education should be free (As it was in California -- pre-Raygun).

[Egalitarian Thug]

6. Absolutey great. We spent the day at a big Star Trek convention.

Merchandizing aside, it was so cool to see people from the single digits to what must be well into their 80s enamoured with the idea that things can be better.

Note to those that still believe positive change can be made from within the system: Here is your core (or your corps, whatever is appropriate to your philosophy) on which to build.

[janlyn]

7. The really sad part?

Is, those same people who believe there is gonna be a rapture. You know the ones who have " in case of rapture, grab my steering wheel" bumper stickers, think trekkies are weird!!
I don't know whether to or

[d_r]

9. i once got busy in a burger king bathroom

$1 to digital underground. and I once made $10 eating a whopper in one bite.

[quakerboy]

11. ten Bucks?

Now, was that with a modern whopper, or back when they actually were a decent size?

[d_r]

16. late 80s

i just kept stuffing

[quakerboy]

10. I find it interesting, a bit sad

That so many people have no ability to conceive that they are not the center of the universe. I notice this a lot in Christians, especially those "of a certain age". They become quite convinced that they are living in the end times... because they are in their own personal end times. They have lost that youthful sense of immortality, and even if they are only middle aged, they have become aware that they are not permanent fixtures. Therefore, when they end, that will be The End.

Of course, this has been true of every generation from the guys who hung out with Jesus on, I suspect. I know that the very early church was convinced they were it, and then it would all be over. Not sure if it also applies to any other religions. Maybe Islam? One would think that a reincarnative religion might not fall prey to this type of thinking, but I couldn't speak to that, and I am sure they have their own issues.

[HiPointDem]

12. i think there have been fundie cells in the military for a long time. connected to all sorts of

creepiness.

[zeemike]

18. And the really ironic thing is.

that they are fulfilling the prophesies in the bible, but they just can't see themselves in it...because it clearly says that they will be decieved...in several places including from Jesus himself.

But the facts are the they do not read the bible...they really on preachers to tell them what it means with out of context quotes that they pull from all over the bible...they deliberately confuse them.
We are in the middle of the great deception, and they are the deceived.

[Brigid]

20. Crossan says that they completely misinterpret . . .

The passages they used to develop this fantasy of theirs. Check out Chapter 5 of his book.

[totodeinhere]

21. Any scientist will tell you that the world will indeed come to an end one day.

It won't be the fundies' version of events but it's a certainty that it will happen. It will probably be billions of years from now and I suspect that by that time mankind will have already killed itself off one way or another, perhaps by rampant global warming, or pollution knocking out the food chain, or perhaps by a nuclear war. Pleasant thoughts, huh.

[MisterP]

22. I wonder if they know it's mostly from the Jehovah's Witnesses

(and the Plymouth Brethren, way back)
OTOH, the Fifth Monarchists gave us freedom of religion, so who knows what we'll get another century down the road...
(nukes. it'll probably be nukes)

[rug]

23. Every time I enter a Burger King I expect an Apocalypse.

I don't talk about it though. I just grab my Whopper and leave.

[RainDog]

24. Yes. Protestant Fundamentalism is a Death Cult

different cultures have had such death cults throughout history - so it's not like their particular brand of crazy is new.

also, having powerful leaders pay attention to their death cult beliefs isn't new, either.

but, at this time in history, you have to wonder if it's sound to have people who hold such beliefs in positions of power. they just don't seem mentally fit to do the job required at this time to lead to a better future.

My personal opinion is that the most damaging thing in American society at this time is religious fundamentalism.

[jwirr]

25. We keep asking here on DU why we are not doing anything about the problems we are facing. When

you consider that many people in this nation think these are the end times it comes as no surprise that our elected officials have the same problem. The rethugs know their policies are destroying not only our own nation but also the worlds around us but to many of them it does not matter because these are the end times and things are supposed to be bad. They never bother to question that they might not be right. And yes I agree that this is the real danger we are facing.

Somewhere in the New Testament there is a story regarding some followers who had decided it was the end time and they had just stopped doing anything - just setting there and watching for it. The author of the book lays into them telling them basically to get off their duffs and get on with life. This whole bunch of the sky is falling idiots have forgotten that story.

[Brigid]

26. That would be Paul.

2 Thessalonians 3:6-13.