Please proceed, Glenn

[sheshe2]

While President Obama was holding a press conference yesterday to lay out his proposed reforms to surveillance programs, both the NSA and DOJ released white papers documenting the specific programs and justifying their legality/constitutionality.

So now we'll wait to see if folks like Glenn Greenwald will take the time to analyze this information to the extent they picked through the documents released by Snowden. I'm personally not going to hold my breath for that. Because if you just assume that the government lies, there's no need to pay attention to what the President or DOJ or NSA say - you simply mock it and spend all your time talking about the guy you recently said we should ignore in favor of a discussion about the policy. And gawd forbid that you ever lower yourself to actually propose any reforms yourself. Because then those would be subjected to the same kind of scrutiny you expect others to apply to the President's proposals.

So, Glenn do you simply Mock it?

Follow

Glenn GreenwaldVerified account
‏@ggreenwald
That must've been a fun meeting where they came up with the "reforms" to offer: "Hey, I got one: an NSA transparency website!" - "good one!"

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/366206144433242115

Or do you spend all your time talking about the guy you recently said we should ignore in favor of a discussion about the policy.

Follow

Glenn GreenwaldVerified account
‏@ggreenwald
Obama's claim that the debate would have happened absent Snowden's revelations is . . . laughable http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/09/the-president-is-wrong-the-nsa-debate-wouldnt-have-happened-without-snowden/ …

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/365933487158603776

Take a moment with me to imagine what an actual "activist journalist" would do now that his priority issue is center stage in the public discussion. Would that journalist simply be spending his time mocking reform proposals and consumed with touting he and his leaker's reputation? Or would s/he be celebrating the conversation and engaging with proposals of their own? If you suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome and are only concerned with your own celebrity, you would do the former. If, on the other hand, you were deeply committed to the issue you pretend is your priority, you would do the latter.

As the President said yesterday, this is not how he would have preferred to have the conversation. But having it we are. Its Glenn Greenwald's chance to show his true colors. Please proceed, Glenn.

http://immasmartypants.blogspot.com/2013/08/please-proceed-glenn.html

[bhikkhu]

1. LOL'ing on twitter - that's journalism these days. nt

[arely staircase]

2. if it doesn't fit the pull it all down paradigm

it isn't worth considering.

[OnyxCollie]

3. Only the gullible believe proven liars.

Obama's wiretapping flip-flop? Yes
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/jul/14/obamas-wiretapping-flip-flop-yes/

In October 2007, Obama spokesman Bill Burton issued this unequivocal statement to the liberal blog TPM Election Central: "To be clear: Barack will support a filibuster of any bill that includes retroactive immunity for telecommunications companies."

~snip~

Obama supported an amendment that would have stripped telecom immunity from the measure. But after that amendment failed, Obama declined to filibuster the bill. In fact, he voted for it. It passed the Senate, 69-28, on July 9. The House passed the same bill last month, and Bush said he would sign it soon. (McCain missed the vote because he was campaigning in Ohio, but he has consistently supported the immunity plan.)

In a message to supporters, Obama defended his position, citing a phrase Democrats fought to include that the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act is the "exclusive" means of wiretapping for intelligence. The bill "is far better than the Protect America Act that I voted against last year... (because it) makes it clear to any president or telecommunications company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court."

[rhett o rick]

9. You can include Gen Clapper. nm

[Egnever]

11. And only the truly moronic see things in black and white

it was a choice of reigning in fisa with immunity for the telecoms or letting fisa continue with no over-site. He chose to implement over-site.

Sometimes you have to take what you can get.

You of course would have preferred they did nothing instead and left fisa with no over-site at all. Right?

[sheshe2]

30. Correct!

Glenn and Snow have been fountains of truth!

Dribble and leak~

[giftedgirl77]

4. Ugh the guy is such a tool

[ProSense]

5. This is about right:

"If you suffer from Obama Derangement Syndrome and are only concerned with your own celebrity, you would do the former."

There's a lot of that going around.

[sheshe2]

7. The ODS'S

are at odds with the facts. Pure and simple!

Thanks ProSense!

[Thinkingabout]

14. K & R

It would appear after all the time which has passed since Bush spoke about this it would not have taken until 2013 for someone to reveal the same information. It is some type of obsession among some.

[sheshe2]

31. Yes and,

Take a moment with me to imagine what an actual "activist journalist" would do now that his priority issue is center stage in the public discussion. Would that journalist simply be spending his time mocking reform proposals and consumed with touting he and his leaker's reputation? Or would s/he be celebrating the conversation and engaging with proposals of their own?

Aaah Glenn, you mock. That's all you have.

You want to be center stage, so sorry, you failed.

[millennialmax]

6. He oozes professionalism, doesn't he?

[frylock]

8. another no-name blogger jagoff weighs in..

whoop-de-fuckin-do

[sheshe2]

13. Sorry that you can not appreciate what she blogs~A no-name jagoff.

I have read her for a long time she is spot on!

So frylock, "whoop-de-fuckin-do" your admiration for the "journalist" Glenn...is the gospel according to you and Glenn? Really? Seriously? And the man that ran...leaking, I'm leaking...wait I have more to leak.

SAT JUL 13, 2013 AT 11:56 AM PDT
Snowden/Greenwald Threaten The United States

I've made no secret of my utter disdain for both Edward Snowden's lawbreaking and for his agent/advocate Glenn Greenwald, both in how they've spun the story, manipulated the press like masterful carnival barkers, and provided as little original sourcing as possible.

All of this, despite the fact that I actually partially agree with them. I, too, have utter contempt for the Patriot Act. I, too, would like to see it overturned and serious oversight/regulations brought back into the FISA court to ensure warrants for any data review.

So why my contempt for these two? Because of bullshit like this, published in today's Reuters:

"Snowden has enough information to cause harm to the U.S. government in a single minute than any other person has ever had," Greenwald said in an interview in Rio de Janeiro with the Argentinean daily La Nacion.

"The U.S. government should be on its knees every day begging that nothing happen to Snowden, because if something does happen to him, all the information will be revealed and it could be its worst nightmare."

The USA should be "on it's knees"? Who talks like this? What is this, the W.W.E.? This is an absolute joke.

Is Greenwald a journalist or Snowden's agent? I've seen subtler hype machines for Paris Hilton reality shows.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/07/13/1223308/-Snowden-Greenwald-Threaten-The-United-States#

So thanks frylock. I will take what Smartypants has to say any day of the week over Greenwald and Snowden Threaten!

[Thinkingabout]

16. It appears frylock seems to take this personally sometimes.

[Cha]

32. Yes, sad really.

the adoration for greenwald and snowden knows no bounds.

But, I'm the "cheerleader".. well yes, I am.. cheering for President Obama to be able to kick back the republicons from taking away programs and benefits from Poor people and only helping their rich donors. Rah Rah!

[frylock]

34. thanks for the eval, dr. frist

[Thinkingabout]

35. You are most welcome

[cthulu2016]

10. Unrec

[Cha]

12. A person interested in real reform wouldn't be mocking any process that's being implemented..

to make it more transparent.. But, GG is the mockup of mocking.. that's all he does. just a matter of.. to what degree of viciousness. He's a llibertarian bucket of ron paul propaganda.

GG has a book to hawk coming in 2014.. be prepared for a continuence of dumb willful ignorance spouting from his horn.

Yeah, greenwald would be "laughable&quot har har) if he weren't so damn tragically pathetic.

[sheshe2]

15. "Yeah, greenwald would be "laughable"(har har) if he weren't so damn tragically pathetic."

Or if so many did not hang in his thrall.

Greenwald and Snowden the truthers (that is what they are believed to be) like the birthers. False advocates!

[millennialmax]

18. Well, ORLY TAITZ did start a petition in favor of Snowden.

[sheshe2]

19. Oh Oiley Taint...

please go away~ please do.

[Cha]

20. Prescisely she! NSA Trufers!

[Logical]

17. I don't care, it started a conversation Obama was avoiding! That is a good thing! n-t

[SunSeeker]

21. K & R

[SidDithers]

22. DU rec...nt

Sid

[Enthusiast]

23. folks "like" Glenn Greenwald?

What folk are they? Folks that tell the truth? You can no longer fool us.

[Thinkingabout]

36. Since Greenwald has not been factual at times, nope it will not be folks who are factual.

[another_liberal]

24. To hell with the NSA!

Shut the whole damn thing down. Fire the whole lot. The National Security Administration costs hundreds of billions and victimizes the very people who pay its goddamned bills. America can do much better than that abomination. We should start over, and build-in some fucking accountability.

[freshwest]

26. All I need to know is found by following the money:

Thom Hartmann: Conservative Millennials, Boomers & Libertarians all being Conned

Multigenerational political influence by a very narrow special interest group is rare, but we're seeing it played out right now in front of us. A billionaire family - the Kochs - have gone from influencing my father's generation, to my generation, to my kids' generation - and very few Americans realize it. Daddy Koch - Fred - made his first millions palling around with Joe Stalin in the Soviet Union in the 1920s and 1930s. As the fascists rose to power in Europe in the 1930s, he was an enthusiastic supporter of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini, who invented the word "fascist," meaning essentially the takeover of democratic governments by big business interests. Mussolini went so far as to dissolve the Italian parliament, and replace elected politicians with representatives of each district's largest corporations. Fred Koch and Mussolini both particularly hated the trade unionists and their sometimes allies, the communists. So after Mussolini, along with his ally Hitler, lost World War II against America, Fred Koch brought the anti-communist pro-business-running-goverment - what some would call "facist" - torch to America big time, helping start the John Birch Society.

Two of their biggest efforts are pretty well known. After the Supreme Court ruled, in 1954, in the Brown versus Board of Education case, that segregation in schools was unconstitutional, the John Birch Society put up billboards all across America calling for the impeachment of the Chief Justice of the Court, Earl Warren. Daddy Fred Koch was very concerned about the integration of our schools - in fact, he wrote, "The colored man looms large in the Communist plan to take over America." With JFK's election, Fred Koch's John Birch Society went off again - this time against JFK. Using rhetoric not that different from the "secret Muslim" plots the Tea Party promotes about Obama, in a 1963 speech Fred said that " infiltrate the highest offices of government in the U.S. until the President is a Communist, unknown to the rest of us.”

When JFK was scheduled to come to Dallas that year, the JBS distributed flyers saying, "Wanted, for Treason" all around the town two days before his arrival. On the day JFK was assassinated, large ads ran in the Dallas newspapers attacking Kennedy as being soft on Castro, among other things. That was my dad's generation. Daddy Koch died, and his sons Charles and David took over the family business of promoting the business and billionaire takeover of our American government.

They're doing it with a two-pronged attack. For people over forty, they're funding the Tea Party through a variety of groups, most notably Americans for Prosperity and Freedomworks. And for people under forty, they're funding Libertarian think tanks, like the Charles Koch Foundation (which was renamed as the Cato Institute), and the Reason Foundation, where David Koch is a trustee, which happily embraces a new generation of young people with the idea that "freedom" means the "freedom" to buy politicians and the "freedom" to pollute. For the young people, of course, the Libertarians throw in the "freedom" to smoke dope and hire a hooker, but those are just bones being cynically tossed to young potheads and young protoge's of Dick Morris.

But the Koch's have been inside the Libertarian movement from its beginning - 32 years ago this year, David Koch was the Libertarian Party's official candidate for Vice President of the United States. It's really pretty incredible, but it's all true. The main agenda of the Koch's John Birch Society was to enhance the power and control of our government by big business and billionaires, while fighting organized labor and people like me who were protesting the Vietnam War. The main agenda of the Koch's Tea Party is to get millionaires elected to Congress and have them cut taxes and regulations for Koch Industries and other polluting corporations, while fighting organized labor and people like me who were protesting the Iraq War.

And the main agenda of the Koch's Libertarians - again, funded and trained by the Koch Brothers - is to keep intact the power of big money over our government, cut taxes and regulations on billionaires and polluting industries, while fighting organized labor and people like me who are protesting the corporate takeover of the United States of America. Three generations of Americans, all duped by the same billionaire family. Three generations buying into the idea that "what's best for industry and billionaires is best for America" - and that government is our "enemy" rather than something that our nation's founders fought and died to create for all of "We The People" And, increasingly, it's not just the Koch family. The Walton family - whose combined wealth is greater than 40 percent of all Americans - funded a covert campaign to rename the estate tax as the "death tax" and lobbied so hard they got the estate tax eliminated entirely in 2010.

Senator Bernie Sanders pointed out yesterday that - so far - we know of 26 billionaires - worth over $146 billion - who have already "invested" or committed to invest over $561 million dollars in this election cycle - most of it to defeat Democrats who want to raise their taxes. The good news is that young people are waking up and realizing that the Libertarian hustle the billionaires are feeding them is just that - a hustle. Just like Tea Partiers are waking up to their having been had by billionaires who want to privatize their Social Security. Hopefully, soon, America will regain its sanity and we'll go back to viewing cranky billionaires the way my Dad's generation did - as Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower did - when Eisenhower referred to their ilk as "small in number and stupid" They're not stupid any more, and if we really value American traditions, we really must push back on this kind of power and influence in American politics.

Go to:

https://movetoamend.org/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1017&pid=44227

There is more about what this is about that I'll post later. It's not about liberty or freedom, it's all about destroying the Union that protects us from these forces, not matter how imperfectly.

Change the Congress, change the law, but don't be fooled into thinking that the ones who are currently playing this game care about indivdual rights or privacy.

There is no privacy from plutocracy, and dealing with them will not be something you can opt-out of, period. Add in the religious angle, and you have total slavery of the human mind and spirit.
.

[sheshe2]

33. Three generations of duping America!

And the main agenda of the Koch's Libertarians - again, funded and trained by the Koch Brothers - is to keep intact the power of big money over our government, cut taxes and regulations on billionaires and polluting industries, while fighting organized labor and people like me who are protesting the corporate takeover of the United States of America. Three generations of Americans, all duped by the same billionaire family. Three generations buying into the idea that "what's best for industry and billionaires is best for America" - and that government is our "enemy" rather than something that our nation's founders fought and died to create for all of "We The People"

Three generations of lies and fear mongering, as they buy America for their own.

The last paragraph gives me hope freshwest. Thank you.

[earcandle]

27. .......................................... Nothing on the internet can be deleted.

I am in the "who cares" camp now.

Nothing on the internet can be deleted. Everything is visible so if you don't want to be seen, stay off the internet is the best advice.

[blackspade]

28. Oh goody, another anonymous blogger attacks transparency

Obama didn't lay out a 'proposal.' There was nothing concrete in his speech.
Maybe that will change over the next week, but I doubt it.
And the White papers merely regurgitate the same crap that that has been pimped to the American people since this scandal broke.
Hell it's the same shit that has been put out there for the last 10 years.
It was crap then and is crap now.

What pontificating crap.

[Thinkingabout]

37. Suffering from ODS, eh.

[blackspade]

38. LOL!

Thanks I needed the laugh after all of the crap coming out of Washington over the last week or so.

[CakeGrrl]

29. k/r

[BumRushDaShow]

39. K&R

[Scurrilous]

40. Glenn Greenwald is a fucking clown.