General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIf I were me in Russia
I would probably be arrested.
I would certainly not be allowed to teach children.
All hail Snowden, the man who seeks the protection of those who think I am a subhuman.
Response to arely staircase (Original post)
giftedgirl77 This message was self-deleted by its author.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Response to arely staircase (Reply #3)
giftedgirl77 This message was self-deleted by its author.
HarveyDarkey
(9,077 posts)Response to HarveyDarkey (Reply #14)
giftedgirl77 This message was self-deleted by its author.
panader0
(25,816 posts)HarveyDarkey
(9,077 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)I didn't expect to get my shit jumped for it. Good god ppl. My bad..
madinmaryland
(64,920 posts)something else by the Russians.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)msongs
(67,198 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)And your son would also be killed. But the good news is, they'd waive the 9-year prison sentence they gave you in the Stalinist postmortem kangaroo court. Bad news, they'll do something else disgusting to Russian orphans. With Magnitsky they halted all U.S. adoptions.
http://m.upi.com/story/UPI-1641373563982/?fms=1
Russia convicts dead whistleblower Sergei Magnitsky of fraud - UPI ...
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Magnitsky
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)It's pretty clear that there are few places on Earth where Snowden will not be be kidnapped or executed by our government. I think this is about a desire to survive, rather than a love of Russia.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)you want to lecture us about survival?
I am tired of it, Manny
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Return to the US to be Manninged?
Perhaps it would be better for all of us to work for an America that doesn't torture, moon due process, ans spy on everyone.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)fuck snowden. we have fought long and hard in this country, from Stonewall until today. We finally have a president on our side. We are finally making progress and this prick takes the side of the bigots, fuck him.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Has he endorsed Russia's policies?
Was Russia on the list of countries that Snowden originally applied to for assylum?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)Snowden is bad and I find it despicable.
CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)The "He'll be killed or tortured"? An unfounded assumption used as an excuse to keep him from standing trial and going to jail.
Other lawbreakers are in jail. He just wants to avoid it like many others who just want to duck the consequences.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)& ducked the consequences.
oh my, how shocking!!!
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Aldrich Ames is probably a better comparison.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Just Saying
(1,799 posts)No, that is not clear. I think most Americans do not take it as a given that our government regularly goes about kidnapping and executing it's citizens. That's pure hyperbole and it's virtually impossible to have constructive discussions about the NSA and spying when statements like this are flung about as fact.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)But they unequivocally do them on occassion. In Snowden's case, given that we took the astonishing step of forcing down Morales' plane, it's pretty clear that the extrajudicial route is the White House's choice here.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)REPUTABLE source. But of course, Youtube and WSWS and fans of both and other like-minded "sources"{ are all aflame with that meme.
Somehow France and Portugal are now states of the US. But only when something unsavory happens.
Just Saying
(1,799 posts)Anything you say and people want to call names and tell you what you think. Or make blanket statements about what's "clear."
I don't even know what went on with that plane but not like we can discuss it here.
MADem
(135,425 posts)The pilot shouldn't have filed multiple flight plans, in an effort to get a refueling stop in Lisbon (where there was labor unrest and they didn't want to accommodate him) because that's how HE wanted to go.
He refused to take NO for an answer, and then tried to bigfoot his way into another stop on his flight path, and people wanted to know WTF was up because there were two flight plans for a single plane.
The plane wasn't flying over the USA, it was flying over European nations. France and Spain and Belgium aren't US territories.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)pnwmom
(108,925 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Not a supermax?
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Sorry. But this is a lot worse than snowden running for his life and ending up in Russia. Here's a picture of President Obama smiling and hanging out with the King of Saudi Arabia.
All hail Obama, the man who smiles and takes pictures with someone who actually flogs people for sodomy.
In 2000 the Saudi government reported that it had sentenced nine Saudi men to extensive prison terms with lashing for engaging in cross-dressing and homosexual relations.[3] That same year the government executed three Yemeni male workers for homosexuality and child molestation.[4]
In April 2005, the government convicted over a hundred men of homosexuality, but none were sentenced to be executed. All those men were given prison sentences with flogging because they were at a private party that was either a same-sex wedding ceremony or a birthday party.[5] Yet, not long after a gay foreign couple was sentenced to death for homosexuality and allegedly killing a man who was blackmailing them for homosexuality.[citation needed]
In May 2005, the government arrested 92 men for homosexuality, who were given sentences ranging from fines to prison sentences of several months and lashings. Likewise, on 7 November 2005 Riyadh police raided what the Saudi press called a "beauty contest for gay men" at al-Qatif. What became of the five men arrested for organizing the event, is not known.[6]
In October 2007, British human rights activists protested recent reports that the Saudi government was sending British mosques material urging the killing of gays and subjugation of women.
Persons caught living in the kingdom illegally, are often accused of other crimes, involving illegal drugs, pornography, prostitution and homosexuality. Several such police crackdowns were reported in 2004 2005.[7] Another similar raid in 2008, netted Filipino workers arrested on charges of alcohol and gay prostitution.[8] The Arab News article on the arrests stated, "Gay rights are not recognized in the Middle East countries and the publication of any material promoting them is banned".[8]
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Given that Obama was not under threat of torture or death when he went?
Did Snowden apply to Saudi Arabia for asylum?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)give me a break.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I said no such thing.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)But, trying to impute Russia's bigotry onto Snowden is disingenuous, at best.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Russia is horrible in this regard. There's no defending it.
The US (Obama) trapped Snowden in Russia. They suspended his passport so he could not leave. It seemed like he would rather have gone to South America since he had asylum offers there.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nobody made him go to Russia.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Are all people that go to Russia bad? Or only the ones whom get stuck their because their passports have been revoked by an authoritarian government? You know Obama is going to St Petersburg don't you?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)there's also uganda & the 'kill the gay" law, with anti-gay atmosphere ramped up by associates of none-other-than rick warren, who spoke at obama's inaugural.
the only reason you're talking about russia is because of snowden. & in fact snowden is the whole reason all of this is being talked up in the press.
Oakenshield
(614 posts)See, now you're just being immature. So it's okay for the President of the fucking United States, a President you proudly claim is on the side of the LGBT community, to smile and shake the hand of a man who flogs people for sodomy....but it's NOT okay for a rather average person fearing for his safety/freedom to flee to Russia? I have to call bullshit. As a liberal you can and should be better than this.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)AppleBottom
(201 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)fuck us "propagandizers" of children. we perverts. beat us, arrest us. as long as snowden has comfort and freedom.
sickening
AppleBottom
(201 posts)his passport and left him stranded in Russia.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)and it isn't with us.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)nobody made his right wing ass go to Russia. so the whole "stranded there" thing makes no sense.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)arely staircase
(12,482 posts)where we "propagandizers of children" and are free to speak.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)So again how is Snowden to blame for Russia's policies?!
And is taking a transfer flight through Russia to avoid government persecution enough to qualify you as a bad, baddie person?
I'm really not understanding the point, you seem very upset?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)he has chosen to keep the company of violent homophobes.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Or the hundreds of thousands of American tourists that visit Jamaica each year.
Or the wealthy progressive actors that own homes in Dubai?
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)keep trying to change the subject.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)And you'll probably continue to do so to fuel you hate and false outrage.
A. ) Snowden has nothing to do with Russia's LGBT policies.
B.) Snowden got stranded in Russia because the American government revoked his passport.
Unless you can acknowledge these realities there's not much point in going on, I am not going to participate in your propaganda.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)In fact there will be a welcoming committee ready to help him exercise his 6th amendment rights. But he doesn't want to because he knows he is guilty of the multiple felonies he has been publicly charged with and the doubtless dozens more that are surely sealed at the moment.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Russia's LGBT policies.
The lies are demeaning to you, the false arguments, and the lack of reason is demeaning to you. Don't degrade yourself like this.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)AppleBottom
(201 posts)Is that like the your either with the terrorist or against the terrorist? Do you understand that there was no direct flight to S. America and that Snowden needed to switch flights in a country that did not have an extradition policy with the US.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)AppleBottom
(201 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)davidn3600
(6,342 posts)If he comes back here, he would first get the Bradley Manning pre-trial detention treatment. He'd be put in a hole without consul and unable for anyone to talk to him. Then he'd eventually get a trial that the government will claim is fair. But the cards will be completely stacked against him in that Virginia courtroom which is very favorable to the intelligence community.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Now how's that for fucked up in the head Snowden? The man is insane. Gripe all you want about the ills of society toward minorities in the U.S. but you have to be nucking futs to say that the U.S. is worse for human rights than Russia is.
That line alone mouthed by the Grate Snow should make the bells ring and flags stand up. Who is behind him and his idiotcy, what does this sound like if you didn't know it was Snowden saying it? It sounds like Drown in the Bathtubber fucking a Pauler is what it sounds like, and the both really enjoying it.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)be surprised which country imprisons a higher percentage of its populace. (Hint: it isn't the Russian Federation.)
Whisp
(24,096 posts)and the precious rights he should have as a felon?
You answer me that. Black people have been surveilled and 'disappeared' for real, have been incarcerated ridiculously more for lesser or same offenses as whites.
Why aren't there as many Hair on Fire threads on this?
I could probably give you a few guesses but you won't like them.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Decent human beings should feel shame when they lie.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)Snowden: Russia first to stand against human rights violations
Officials are criticizing Edward Snowden for calling Russia and other countries that have offered him asylum as nations that stand against human rights violations. Slates Michael Yglesias and the panel give their perspective on MSNBCs NOW with Alex Wagner.
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/now/52480391#52480391
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Which is a human right. Is not approving of Russia's record on other human rights issues.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)iBored.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Swagman
(1,934 posts)send me to a war to kill innocent people who had never harmed me.
If I protested against the sharks of Wall Street I would probably be arrested...etc etc
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Eating Cinnabon looking for the el pollo loco.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Cha
(295,925 posts)http://wikileaks.org/Statement-by-Edward-Snowden-to.html
Or is he "confused" like when he was whining about Pres Obama revoking his passport .. like he thought he'd get special consideration.. 'cause he's so special and all.
Dustin Lance Black who produced "Milk" is speaking out for Gays in Russia, arely..
"Dustin Lance Black Urges Hollywood to Confront Russia's Anti-Gay Laws'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023430113
This is Dustin Lance Black..
On February 22, 2009, Black won the Oscar for Best Original Screenplay for Milk at the 81st Academy Awards. He wore a White Knot to the ceremony as a symbol of solidarity with the marriage equality movement.[14] In his acceptance speech at the Oscar ceremony, he said:
... When I was thirteen years old my beautiful mother and my father moved me from a conservative Mormon home in San Antonio, Texas to California and I heard the story of Harvey Milk and it gave me hope. It gave me the hope to live my life, it gave me the hope to one day I could live my life openly as who I am, and that maybe even I could fall in love and one day get married...'
"I want to thank my mom, who has always loved me for who I am even when there was pressure not to...'
"But most of all, if Harvey had not been taken from us 30 years ago, I think he would want me to say to all of the gay and lesbian kids out there tonight who have been told that they are less than by their churches, or by the government, or by their families, that you are beautiful, wonderful creatures of value, and that no matter what anyone tells you, God does love you and that very soon I promise you, you will have equal rights federally across this great nation of ours.'
"Thank you, and thank you God for giving us Harvey Milk."[6][15]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dustin_Lance_Black
arely
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)iamthebandfanman
(8,127 posts)everyone knows Russia is the free-est greatest country of all time!
I mean, they aren't all secretive about their misdoings and hateful actions.. its right out in the open for everyone to see
apparently people love honesty more than they do the knowledge of the history of Russia and its current political state of being (fascist corporatists just like the Chinese are now) and are willing to forgive any current or past brutal actions because it fits whatever political statement they are currently trying to make about our government.
we have A LOT of problems here at home, that's without a doubt.. but to say Russia or about 50% of other nations are 'more free' or a better place to live.. is just well.. nuts.
cali
(114,904 posts)Snowden didn't seek out protection from people who are homophobic. He sought asylum. And he took it where he could get it. Russia is no more completely defined by homophobia than the U.S. is defined as the most mad dog military power in the world, starting one fucking war after another; bombing the shit out of any country it feels like.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)not protection. asylum.
cali
(114,904 posts)Look, want to make the claim that his fleeing after revealing/whistle blowing/ betraying, was an act of cowardice? There's an argument to be made. I don't agree with it, but it's a valid argument. Want to claim that Snowden is endorsing Russia's homophobia? that's just bullshit of the worst kind. And it's an "argument" with jackshit to back it up. It's just silly.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)First there was the theft of privileged materials and information, then there was the public and private distribution and sharing of the materials he stole. This is not whistle blowing. THEN Snowden decides that big old bad USA needs to be outed to the world. THE USA that he doesn't like, the USA that harms it's citizens, the USA that will kill him and torture him. He turns the USA into a caricature of Mother Russia. Then he rests gently in the arms of the nation he says the USA is like. The OP has made the point over and over, Snowden made the choice after he crapped all over the nation that is NOT what he portrays it to be. Snowden decided he would flee and seek asylum while third wayers on DU carry only the lie that if he were here he would be tortured and killed....Snowden is a self serving hypocrite of the highest order. I hope he finds no comfort in the life he has chosen. Likely, it will not be too long before he realizes the brutality of what a real oppressive government is like. I wonder how 'trusted' he will be there?
cali
(114,904 posts)that you don't hardly has the same weight.
I don't think Snowden would be killed here. depending on what you regard as torture, I think it's possible that he would be tortured/mistreated in much the same way Manning was.
And sorry, but a country that launches wars under false pretexts, that murders people with drones, that imprisons more people than any other country on earth, that conducts massive mass surveillance, is hardly some paragon of justice.
duh.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)but since I'm not the only one with a difference of opinions from your opinion, I feel perfectly fine not camping with the "Snowden is a hero" crowd.
cali
(114,904 posts)he's a whistle blower
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)the Snowden asylum story broke?
If so, can you please post link(s)?
If not, I won't accuse you of rank hypocrisy, but merely exploitative opportunism, i.e., "I'll raise the issue of homophobia in the RF as a way to smear further Snowden and not because I really give a shit about homophobia in the RF."
That's a pretty underhanded passive-aggressive way to state a position about Snowden.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)information was leaked (actually a little more than a week) and it was attributed to him.
On 11 June 2013 State Duma adopted a federal law banning "homosexual propaganda". Snowdens revelations came out in late May.
Cha
(295,925 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)would you live there?
Simple question
It's one the keyboard warriors avoid, but the truth is that they'd piss themselves at the thought of Bradley Manning's fate and would seek safety in Russia at all costs.
Internet tough guys are all talk.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Since that is literally Snowden's alternative: life in solitary or life in Russia.
The macho men like yourself would be terrified at the thought of such a fate, yet you have no problem making illogical statements like "If I were me in Russia". It isn't your ass in Russia, that's why you so easily dismiss the consequences. If you had to face the same consequences, it wouldn't be as simple as a half-assed remark on DU.
Anyone can be brave when someone else is facing the consequences. No different than chickenhawks.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)And yes, I am in a much less stressful situation than him, not having committed espionage and all.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)it is interesting that a man who claims to care about personal freedoms has to go to countries with horrible civil rights records to remain free.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)and damn sure not Putin.
The Link
(757 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)Riftaxe
(2,693 posts)and i do damned well hate the place. But to visit people near it, you require Russian planes to get there, after all a dissident is one who disagrees with the power in charge.
No it is hardly a hold over from the 80's, they were much nicer back then..
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Not as in change my name, but as in pretend I'm something I'm not.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)So, if by his presence in Russia, Snowden supports Russia's actions against the LGBT people there...
then by this logic...
By your presence in Texas, you are an advocate for electrocuting the mentally handicapped. Or anyone at all, for that matter, since your state has the highest prisoner execution rate in the country.
All hail arely staircase, state-murder advocate and eugenicist!
...No, I don't actually believe that about you Arely, but you see what a spurious argument it is, surely.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)He would have gone to South or Central America if given the possibility.
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)Snowden was not seeking the protection of Russia, he was seeking protection from the US. The US forced him to be trapped in Russia, where he had no intention of staying, but only passing through.
Fuck Russia and their bigotry. They should be scorned for their hate. But, this OP is flame bait and misses the mark.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Me thinks I would grab a cold drink because it is fucking HOT!