General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRussia isn't even close to being the most homophobic country.
Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 01:33 PM - Edit history (1)
It's not the country where it's most dangerous to be GLBT. It's the country that some want to portray that way for political reasons.
Yes, it sucks, but reading DU recently and other internet sites lately, you'd think that Russia is not only the worst country in which to be gay, but the only country where being gay means being oppressed. It is not.
What's worse? Jamaica, for one. Right here in our own hemisphere.
In Jamaica it's illegal and punishable by jail time for men to have sex with other men.
Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) persons in Jamaica face legal and social issues not experienced by non-LGBT people. Sexual acts between men are punishable with up to ten years imprisonment. Sexual acts between women are legal.
Jamaica has been described by some human rights groups as the most homophobic place on Earth because of the high level of violent crime directed at LGBT people.[1] The United States Department of State said that in 2012, "[h]omophobia was widespread in the country".[2] The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights in 2012 said that "discrimination based on sexual orientation, gender identity, and gender expression is widespread throughout Jamaica, and ... discrimination against those in the lesbian, gay, bisexual, trans, and intersex ... communities is entrenched in Jamaican State institutions. Those who are not heterosexual or cisgender face political and legal stigmatization, police violence, an inability to access the justice system, as well as intimidation, violence, and pressure in their homes and communities."[3]:page: 95 Human Rights Watch said in 2012 that because of homophobia, "human rights defenders advocating the rights of LGBT people are not safe in Jamaica".[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Jamaica
In fact, the Caribbean is worse than Russia when it comes to anti-GLBT laws.
There are 76 countries and several territories where homosexuality is illegal
http://76crimes.com/76-countries-where-homosexuality-is-illegal/
Let's stop pretending that Russia is unique. Sadly, it is not.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)I am clearly not defending Russia on LGBT rights, pro.
I am pointing out a degree of hypocrisy that's startling. Even for DU.
BlueJazz
(25,348 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)ProSense
(116,464 posts)People can and should condemn Russia's policies.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Less homophobic countries get a pass, 'cause they took in Paul Revere.
Sid
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)he's Harriet Tubman now.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)KharmaTrain
(31,706 posts)CakeGrrl
(10,611 posts)Any country who takes in Snowden gets a whitewash on its wrongdoing.
And the pro-Snowden crowd has the nerve to toss the term 'apologist' around like it doesn't apply to them.
Scootaloo
(25,699 posts)So thanks for clearing that up.
Vanje
(9,766 posts)It may be the end times.
awoke_in_2003
(34,582 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Life Long Dem
(8,582 posts)JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)the official party line is that we are at war with Eurasia and always have been.
I have no idea how anyone could misinterpret what you wrote, and thanks for saying it.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)What's your point?
Nevermind.
cali
(114,904 posts)AppleBottom
(201 posts)The lies really just need to stop.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Snowden: Russia first to stand against human rights violations
Officials are criticizing Edward Snowden for calling Russia and other countries that have offered him asylum as nations that stand against human rights violations. Slates Michael Yglesias and the panel give their perspective on MSNBCs NOW with Alex Wagner.
==
You are correct about the lies needing to stop...
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Edward Snowden was clearly talking about the right of asylum in accordance with international law.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)twist and bend all you like, but the man has a few loose screws and is being taken advantage of by someone way higher up in the food chain.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)I want proof that he can hack into the President's email and phone accounts.
Without definitive proof, he's just a con artist.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)and uses words to excite people and not provide any evidence of what he is claiming?
It does to me. A person's character has much to do with the intent.
MineralMan
(146,192 posts)I don't think so. Of course Russia is not unique. There's still homophobia in the US, too. However, the tide seems to have turned here, or is turning. Russia is ramping up its official homophobia, though.
That is worthy of note. Wherever it exists, it should be condemned, don't you think? Russia's laws regarding this raise a natural question about participation in the Olympic games and other issues. Do you think it's OK that Russia is sanctioning homophobia by law?
Does the fact that other countries have even worse laws and policies make Russia's official homophobia less objectionable?
cali
(114,904 posts)My op is clearly condemning all homophobia and pointing out some disgusting hypocrisy that's been playing out on DU.
Putting words in the mouths of others that they never came close to uttering is inexcusable. Congrats on engaging in it.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Around For decades. Like you very clearly pointed out. Jamaica a favorite tourist destination for many Americans has a far worse civil policy towards LGBT individuals. Yet there is no poutrage there.
cali
(114,904 posts)Russia's ramping up of homophobia is despicable. So is using that in order to vilify Snowden. And that's been going on like crazy.
It is disgusting.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)You and your ilk- using homophobia to demonize Snowden, is disgusting. You care more about doing that than you do about homophobia.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)So you can take your bogus mischaracterization and do something appropriate with it.
And furthermore, there are very few threads even pushing what you allege.
But HEY, you got a thread that will popular with all the cool kidz. LOLZ
morningfog
(18,115 posts)now, and including now, you have always been in lock step with "your ilk." There was nothing bogus about her characterization.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Cali is simply disassociating the false argument that Snowden = Russia's LGBT policies.
This blatant attempt at poisoning the well is intended to silence conversation and NOT promote it.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)threads, posts or DU'ers doing what she alleges.
Furthermore, Russia's latest crackdown on GLBT population HAS been in the news regardless AND now the Olympics are coming up.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)And just in the news today.
http://news.yahoo.com/jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-mob-070446416.html
I'm not quite sure how hosting the Olympics ties into anything related here? It could just be used to push the goal post further out. But I'm pretty sure that Jamaica not hosting the Olympics has more to do with their lack of finances and infrastructure and less to do with their LGBT policies.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)AppleBottom
(201 posts)Honest conversation is much better than false equivalency don't you think?
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I didn't see a contribution from either you or cali to this recent thread I posted to LBN:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014548826
And your use of the dismissive "poutrage" if offensive and one too-often aimed at GLBTs here at DU. Cut it out.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I was responding to cali and AppleBottom, just to be clear.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)And I already posted a link to that article on this thread?
As far as the poutrage comments go, I apologize. It was not meant to offend or belittle anyone of the LGBT community. It was a sideways jab at the same people that try to be dismissive of the NSA's many illegal activities.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)That's where I posted the thread about homophobic attacks in Jamaica.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)You must have thought I was referring to the LGBT forum.
Anyway... yes, there are threads alerting to GLBT abuses around the globe but apparently most of DU takes little interest in the slaughter that's happening ALL THE TIME. In addition to the thread I posted regarding the murder in Jamaica, I also recently posted a thread about the murder of gay rights workers in Cameroon. An awful lot of folks around here get more upset and vocal at the abuse of a pet than the murder of gay people. After a while you're not particularly motivated to post such news because you can get the feeling no one really gives a shit.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)In Jamaica, transgender teen murdered by mob
Associated Press
DAVID McFADDEN 5 hours ago
MONTEGO BAY, Jamaica (AP) Dwayne Jones was relentlessly teased in high school for being effeminate until he dropped out. His father not only kicked him out of the house at the age of 14 but also helped jeering neighbors push the youngster from the rough Jamaican slum where he grew up.
By age 16, the teenager was dead beaten, stabbed, shot and run over by a car when he showed up at a street party dressed as a woman. His mistake: confiding to a friend that he was attending a "straight" party as a girl for the first time in his life.
"When I saw Dwayne's body, I started shaking and crying," said Khloe, one of three transgender friends who shared a derelict house with the teenager in the hills above the north coast city of Montego Bay. Like many transgender and gay people in Jamaica, Khloe wouldn't give a full name out of fear.
"It was horrible. It was so, so painful to see him like that."
International advocacy groups often portray this Caribbean island as the most hostile country in the Western Hemisphere for gay and transgender people. After two prominent gay rights activists were murdered, a researcher with the U.S.-based Human Rights Watch in 2006 called the environment in Jamaica for such groups "the worst any of us has ever seen."
...
Advocates say much of the homophobia is fueled by a nearly 150-year-old anti-sodomy law that bans anal sex as well as by dancehall reggae performers who flaunt anti-gay themes. The island's main gay rights group estimated that two homosexual men were killed for their sexual orientation last year, and 36 were the victims of mob violence.
...
Some say the hostility partly stems from the legacy of slavery when black men were sometimes sodomized as punishment or humiliation. Some historians believe that practice carried over into a general dread of homosexuality.
...
http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/vCvGwfJpWC5csN1rSdKyYQ--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9ZmlsbDtoPTY0MTtweW9mZj0wO3E9ODU7dz05NjA-/
In this Aug. 3, 2013 photo, pink curtains adorn an empty room that once belonged to Dwayne Jones
...
MORE: http://news.yahoo.com/jamaica-transgender-teen-murdered-mob-070446416.html
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)"I don't want to live in a society that does these sort of things [surveillance on its citizens]... I do not want to live in a world where everything I do and say is recorded... "
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Russia was freer as far as homosexual rights a few years ago than it is now.
Putin has been channeling neo-nationalist rhetoric to get rid of dissent within the country.
The ban on gay pride marches only was inacted a couple of years ago (2011).
The law against gay "propaganda" was implemented this year.
This is a regression not a progression.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)have been in the news BEFORE S. even got there.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)it's hosting the Winter Olympics,which millions of people around the world have an interest in. My guess is that if Jamaica ever gets the Summer Olympics,you'll see the same protests as you're seeing with Russia.When China held the Olympics there were human rights protests too.
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)was the unifying law for the whole of Russia as passed by the Duma. Many regions of Russia had had local laws on the subject for years and as such it was inevitable the vote would pass. I don't recall any mention of those other laws in the past here.
With the best will in the world I doubt Jamiaca could afford to host the Olympics.
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)And if anyone does go there do not refer to anyone you don't know personally as being batty - might not go down too well.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)in its rampant homophobia/transphobia.
name not needed
(11,660 posts)LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)RKP5637
(67,030 posts)the connection, but some folks on the jury pointed out my error! Sorry!
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)one conviction, & three different courts ruled that such laws did *not* prevent people from exercising their free speech rights in things like gay pride parades, etc.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)You serious with that crap?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)and fewer convicted.
here's one who was convicted (the most famous gay-rights campaigner in russia):
"Nikolai Alexeyev, the organiser of numerous unsanctioned gay pride marches in Moscow, was fined 5,000 rubles ($169) under a new city law that bans propaganda of homosexuality and paedophilia to minors, he told AFP."
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/Default.aspx?pageID=238&nid=19959
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolay_Alexeyev
he didn't do any jail time.
russian supreme court decision of 2012:
Pickets in support of and public discussions on gay rights remain legal despite the ban, passed by the Arkhangelsk Region's legislature last fall, the court said.
Informing minors about homosexual relations is also allowed as long as the information remains neutral in tone, the court said in a ruling passed in mid-August but not publicized until this week.
http://en.rian.ru/russia/20120913/175939700.html
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Russia is bad for LGBT but some of the posts seem to be specifically focused on the idea that Snowen is anti-gay because he ran away and got stranded in Russia.
It seemed like he got stranded in Russia when the US revoked his passport so he couldn't get to South America.
AppleBottom
(201 posts)Russia, and that he never wanted to be there in the first place. But needed to make sure that the country in which he transferred planes from did not have an extradition treaty with the U.S.
These BASIC facts are never acknowledged by the deniers.
LuvNewcastle
(16,820 posts)Russia seem to depend upon their attitude toward Snowden. Some people seem to delight in the opportunity to bash Snowden some more, while others don't want to think about the human rights abuses in Russia because they think it might reflect poorly on Snowden. The gay people in Russia need the world's support against their government right now, and they deserve more than having their fate decided by how much people love/hate Ed Snowden. The two issues are completely separate.
War Horse
(931 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)oppressing its GLBT population.
I agree that the two issues are separate and should remain so.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)It's indefensible so I doubt anybody around here would try to defend it.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)enlightenment
(8,830 posts)But it is a major nation expressing not just horrific bigotry but also actual legislation against the LGBT community. Granted, passing laws is not unique either, as many have pointed out, but it has also been mentioned that those places aren't hosting an international sporting event this year.
My son (who is transgender), works with LGBT (mostly transgender) youth in London. He tells me that the Caribbean community in the city is among the most difficult to reach - and that the youth of that community suffer a great deal as a result. He is very aware of the problems that LGBT people face around the world, and how the mindset of a culture can be carried to other places, believe me.
That said, with that understanding, he is at the moment very involved in protesting what Russia is saying and doing - and calling for a boycott of the Sochi games.
People can have an understanding of how widespread a problem is and still focus on a particular aspect at a particular point in time. Just because Russia is not unique does not mean that what they are doing should be written off as unworthy of notice.
I know you know that and I believe your heart is in the right place - but you seem to be confusing a normal reaction (focusing on the most visible example of egregious behavior) with a desire to make Russia the sole perpetrator.
mitchtv
(17,718 posts)not much of ne, but it made the news http://www.queerty.com/world-brief-jamaica-faces-gay-boycott-20090414/
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)
I can see the commercials now. Russia - not nearly as homophobic as Jamaica!
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Here's a suggestion:
"Virginia -- not nearly as misogynic as Saudi Arabia!" (Well, almost)
Yes, we should only take umbrage at those countries that are the worst examples of homophobia, misogyny and racism. Just quit fighting for your rights here at home and be thankful you don't live somewhere else. People, don't you even see how ridiculous that is?
dembotoz
(16,737 posts)not that hard really
cali
(114,904 posts)dembotoz
(16,737 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts).... since the Islamic revolution".
Exact figures are hard to determine, due to the political turmoil in many of the Islamic states, but as of 2009 homosexual relationships, acts or behavior are forbidden in approximately thirty-six Islamic countries including Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei, Djibouti, Egypt, Eritrea, Gambia, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Indonesia, Iran, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Malaysia, Maldives, Mauritania, Morocco, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Sierra Leone, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Tanzania, Tunisia, Turkmenistan, the United Arab Emirates, Uzbekistan and Yemen, with punishments including anything from a fine up to life imprisonment.[18][19] Ten of those countries out of the thirty-six impose the death penalty for homosexuals. They are Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Pakistan, Saudi-Arabia, Somalia, Sudan, United Arab Emirates, Yemen and some states in Malaysia.[20]
According to the Iranian gay and lesbian rights group Homan, the Iranian government alone has put to death an estimated 4,000 homosexuals since the Islamic revolution of 1979.[19] Laws allowing gay rights, seldom mean a thing in Muslim majority nations where the laws of Islam trump the laws of the land every time. Take for instance, Iraq, which does not officially have any laws discriminating against same-sex relationships, currently there are death squads operating in the country killing gays and lesbians (or effeminate men and masculine women suspected of homosexuality) on sight, and a shocking sixty-eight gay and trans-gendered men have been killed within the space of four months, often by having their anuses glued shut, followed by induced diarrhea.[21][22]
Also in the secular nation of Turkey, a country which is often held-up as a poster-child for moderate Islam, persecution and violence against homosexuals [along with non-Muslim minorities] is on the rise, with eleven gays being killed within the first half of 2009 .[23] This behavior is consistant with the results of a survey[24] released in November of 2009 which found that a massive 67 percent of Turks "would continue acting in accordance with their religious beliefs if the Parliament passed a law that contradicted religious laws." and only Twenty-six percent "would obey the countrys law in this case".
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_and_Homosexuality
I concur with your subject line.
mitchtv
(17,718 posts)I too agree with the subject line
michigandem58
(1,044 posts)And just to prop up Snowden.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Russia has recently put in effect some hateful laws and that is why LGBT folks and allies are making a big deal out of it. Not because of Snowden.
cali
(114,904 posts)<snip>
Africa generally is becoming a dangerous place to be openly gay no fewer than 37 African countries have declared homosexuality illegal but Uganda is evidently the most dangerous, with a prominent politician called David Bahati championing legislation bluntly called the Anti-Homosexuality Act which would introduce life imprisonment for people found guilty of same-gender sex, and the death penalty for serial offenders.
If only this represented the ranting of a right-wing zealot, out of step with public opinion. In fact, Mills found perfectly bright schoolchildren who are likewise of the view that homosexuality is an abomination, and met a newspaper editor who insisted that it reduces the human lifespan by 24 years. A young lesbian told him that she had been raped in an attempt to cure her of her orientation, yet far from curing her, the rape left her pregnant and HIV-infected.
All this is a relatively recent phenomenon, apparently visited upon Africa by the growing influence there of American evangelists. And where angry shouting doesnt work, glib humour is deployed. In the beginning it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, offered a panellist on a phone-in radio show.
http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/worlds-worst-place-to-be-gay/
There is certainly evidence that Snowden is connected to at least some of the ops about Russia and homophobia. People have brought him into it as a reason to criticize him.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Now you may be right about some posters doing it here because of Snowden but many of us here have been discussing the issue before Snowden was heard of.
theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)I for one have been posting threads regarding the issues of global antigay violence and haven't even been involved in the Snowden debates. It's just that a lot of DUers haven't been paying attention to the threads regarding LGBT persecution abroad, even when those threads are posted to the major forums. If anything, the only reason many people here seem to have taken an interest at all in LGBT protest over Russian persecution is because of the Snowden affair. That doesn't speak so much as to LGBT posters as it does to way too many on DU not even noticing or caring about the ongoing global persecution of GLBTs.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)think that is a good thing.
Good post my friend.
RZM
(8,556 posts)That in many parts of the world, homosexuality is seen as a western import that is alien to local cultures. I think that's part of the story in Russia, Jamaica, and many other places as well.
sufrommich
(22,871 posts)it occurs whether legal or not. Acceptance of homosexuality is a western import,not homosexuality itself.
RZM
(8,556 posts)I'm just pointing out how different people around the world see it. They're wrong of course.
LostOne4Ever
(9,267 posts)Fuck Russia, Cameroon, Jamaica, and all the homophobic hate holes in the middle east, carribian. Hell, Fuck every homophobic hate hole in the world.
Ill boycott them all.
Im still not letting Russia off the hook.
pnwmom
(108,925 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)who just says being LGBT is normal? And OMG don't say that within hearing of a 17 y/o. You'll wind up in Butyrka or Black Dolphin.
Oh, and tourists can be thrown in jail for 2 weeks for wearing rainbow t-shirts. But they're not as bad as Jamaica. Except Jamaica doesn't HAVE that law. Oops.
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)country, I do agree that Jamaica is totally fucked as far GBLT rights go. Reggae is one of the most homophobic music genres that I am aware of.
pampango
(24,692 posts)napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)And that allows it the ability to point at Russia's less progressive stance disparagingly, and I for one won't complain. But yes, OP. LGBT rights in countries like Saudi Arabia and many others is still really bad.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Russia is noticed because they are moving backwards.
JI7
(89,173 posts)for their human rights abuses when they were hosting.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)That's for goddamn sure.
Response to cali (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)I posted a thread on this recently: http://www.democraticunderground.com/113729757
It should not be ignored.
Russia gets a pass because RT is a favored source among the more left leaning DUers because RT is anti-American for the most part.
Russia should not get that pass.
As should no other state that suppresses LGBT.
Including the USA.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Especially when there policies are recently becoming so regressive. Russia needs condemnation and pressure on LGBT rights as well as other issues.
However, I find it rather distasteful to use Russia's bigotry as an attack against Snowden.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Just because some might use Russia's bigotry as an attack on Snowden does not necessarily mean Russian bigotry doesn't exist. Even if those people have an ulterior motive, that should not distract from the fact that Putin is pitting Russians against one another. The OP seems to be a distraction. Russia's recent (and see the post I linked, it's recent) move toward LGBT oppression and suppression is new, and intended to keep the status quo in power in Russia.
Response to joshcryer (Reply #94)
Name removed Message auto-removed
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)Poor minors being "exposed" to the idea of LGBT.
If you read my fucking goddamn post you'd fucking know that in fucking fact the Russian people don't give a fucking goddamn about LGBT for or against. They just want to live their lives. Putin and his right wing party is the one pushing for anti-LGBT.
Since you've been "quite banned" from LGBT for having the obviously wrong opinion, I frankly think you should be banned from DU as a whole for your last paragraph of absolute and indisputable bigotry.
Creideiki
(2,567 posts)Minors are LGBT. A good number already know it. But hey, you're Russian and you don't find a problem with it, so what the hell?
I'm so sorry that Russia doesn't protect LGBT people from people like you.
And thanks for the Tu Quoque logical fallacy thrown in just for fun.
I'm sorry you're banned from the LGBT Group. Develop some empathy and demonstrate it. I'm sure that will eventually get your banning lifted.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)An anti-Libya Revolutionary Russian poster who continually made comments against Libya but for Russia. A pure Russia apologist.
Creideiki
(2,567 posts)CALI! Thanks, Cali, for pointing out that someone else is worse, therefore, a superpower being homophobic isn't all that bad.
No, seriously! You definitely earned this award.
Yes, Jamaica is worse. Yes, a lot of the Caribbean is worse. Yes, a lot of Africa is worse. Yes, a lot of the Middle East is worse. Let me know when Jamaica is counted a major economic and military power. Let me know when Jamaica is going to host the Olympics--or other international event--and have a lot of LGBT tourists and athletes/participants coming to the country under threat of imprisonment and back-breaking fines if they violate the host country's unjust laws by existing.
Drunken Irishman
(34,857 posts)Jaimaca? Not so much. It certainly shouldn't absolve them of their sins, but it's also important to point out the larger role Russia plays on the international stage. It is a major power and holds immense influence, which amplaphies their anti-gay policies. Even more so, of course, with their hosting of the upcoming Olympics.
Does this mean they are the worst in that regard? Of course not. However, their power at the international table, and the immense figure Putin has made himself into, has made their influence on the matter much broader.
madrchsod
(58,162 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)We know you consider out concerns about the escalating anti-homosexual pogrom in Russia is just a "revolting little political game".
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Deliberately. We have a very clear warning this time. We cannot close our eyes to it. Not again. Never again. Never forget has meaning.
spanone
(135,632 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Nor do they have a permanent seat on the UN Security Council. There is zero chance that either will ever host the Olympics, "Cool Runnings" notwithstanding. And so on.
Probably the next country down the list more homophobic than Russia is Saudi Arabia, which isn't even in the OECD (the top 32 economies).
Same thing with some smaller countries having a worse overall human rights record than China. Size matters.