I am convinced Snowden is a hero now more than ever

[Harmony Blue]

Last edited Sun Aug 11, 2013, 09:41 PM - Edit history (2)

When the President of the United States has to state explicitly that he doesn't believe Snowden is a hero, or a patriot, that is when I know that the forces of the 1% have lost control of their messaging.

I have noticed many people on the fence, or didn't have as strong opinion about the NSA revelations from months ago, starting to formulate strong opposition now. Is it because of the NSA revelations? Not necessarily (that is a part of it), but I think the distaste is rooted in how some of our elected officials are handling the leaks that leaves a bitter taste in their mouths. We elect reps, and as a result we delegate our power to them to take care of democratic mechanisms on our behalf. Just because we delegate this power to our reps it does not give them the excuse to abuse their power or talk down to us like children.

So, the stage is set and our country is divided by those that believe in the beltway DC bubble vs those that live in the realty that our country is at currently. The DC beltway is reacting so irrationally at the Snowden revelations, because they have been sheltered by this bubble far too long. The push back from the world is immense and continuous. The President's comments only intensifies the resolve of truth seekers and those that stand by the constitution.

Worst part of all of this is that a Democratic President is handing the right on the platter messaging ammo that the government can't be trusted. Based on the Obama administration's conduct and fumbling of the Snowden revelations this is hard to counter. Democracies crash and burn when transparency and trust are not there and cooperation is no longer possible.

This is a game of three dimensional chess that the DC beltway corporate politicians are clueless to figure out to play. It isn't about money it is about ideas, but that is a foreign concept to the DC beltway crew anyways. You can't make the argument that the other side is less evil than we are or the ends justify the means. The citizens of the world are not buying it and that is what has these elected reps throwing hissy fits.

[Life Long Dem]

1. Because no one hears a word the President says anyway

[Th1onein]

3. Did you even read what the post says? Good grief.

"The President's comments only intensifies the resolve of truth seekers and those that stand by the constitution."

[Life Long Dem]

7. Good grief the sky is falling

You must be the biggest truth seeker.

[Th1onein]

16. You don't have to be rude to me, Life Long Dem.

WTF?

[Life Long Dem]

18. Maybe a sarcasm icon would have helped

[Th1onein]

24. Whatever. Welcome to my Ignore list.

[Aerows]

45. People quit listening to leaders

*any* leader be it Church leaders that molest children and lie about it, City leaders that misappropriate funds and lie about it, Congressional leaders that engage in sordid behavior and lie about it, and yes, even Presidents, when they lie about things where there is no consent or no ability to give consent.

You can't be a leader and directly, get caught lying about something more than once and be taken seriously. Clinton's saving grace was that nobody except the moral outrage crowd cared that he got a consensual blowjob. When the outrage is about policy and doing things that *aren't* consensual like sending pictures of your dick to people that are unwitting that you are doing it, and unwilling to look at your junk, it's another story. Weiner sent pictures to women without their consent. Spying without consent is bad. Sucking someone's penis because you want to, well, that's your own business and his. That's where the line is.

When you spy on people without their consent, get caught doing it, again, the consent is the problem. Hell, I'm sure many get off on the idea of people watching them exchange porn pics. Some don't though, and it's an idea of consent.

[Th1onein]

2. Kicked and rec'd, Harmony Blue.

[FirstLight]

4. we are the enemy

and they, the 1%, the MIC, etc... are the ones holding the reigns of our leaders.

I have no faith in our democracy anymore, which is frightening in it's own way. So now I live in a country that has elections, but it really doesn't matter, my own person and home are no longer protected by the 4th Amendment, My First Amendment rights are no more than swiss cheese...
And I struggle every day to pay my bills and keep a roof over my head and raise my kids and try to make it better... and it is because of this ever present struggle that I am impotent to DO any more to stop the way things are going.

I agree, Snowden and Manning and the like are heroes, and yet they will be made examples of because that's how those with power stay in power. squash dissent.

[Raksha]

14. I don't think they will be made examples of.

As Harmony Blue's OP stated, the 1% and the Beltway bubble people have already lost control of the messaging (past tense). That's a done deal. So they can't have them go from being heroes to being martyrs. That would make them look even worse than they do now. I think it could work out well for Snowden and Manning, who might have gotten stiffer sentences otherwise.

[burnodo]

5. Be ready for the shitstorm!

The Screaming Meemies will be here soon.

[Harmony Blue]

6. I welcome any feedback

to my opening post whether someone agrees or disagrees with what I have to say.

[Cryptoad]

33. Do you believe that a person

Do you believe that a person who exposed to our enemies the process by which we keep surveillance on them, has made our country less safe?

He is a traitor in my book.....

[burnodo]

36. Do you think that a "mortal enemy" of the US

Is too stupid to understand how they're being surveilled by the US? Snowden's whole point was about the US ping on its own citizens, which is unequivocally unconstitutional.

[Cryptoad]

48. Yes that is your Opinion which you are entitled to,,,,,,

but it is not based on any evidence to date. But evidence does exist that he illegality release classified documents and exposed details about our process of surveillance of our enemies.

There was a time when we Democarts knew the difference between speculative conjecture and facts. Its a shame to see this dumbing down of our Party.

More and More I feel we are being played by the CIA !

[Mojorabbit]

43. You are in the minority then

By TAL KOPAN | 8/1/13 10:52 AM EDT
As news broke Thursday that NSA leaker Edward Snowden was granted temporary asylum in Russia, a new poll shows that a majority of Americans view him as a whistleblower rather than a traitor.

Asked whether Snowden is more of a whistleblower or more of a traitor, those polled split 55 percent to 34 percent for whistleblower, according to a Quinnipiac survey released Thursday.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/08/edward-snowden-nsa-leak-poll-95054.html

[Cryptoad]

47. NOt the first time

I have been in the minority,,,, I guess when you combine the far right with the far left you have numbers like that........it still doesn't make him a Hero! and until there is some evidence to the contrary ,,, he will remain a fugitive , and a traitor.

[Harmony Blue]

49. Define our enemies first of all

and as the Manning case showed leaking such information does not assist the enemy. Anyways, outing CIA agents in the field assists enemies, or telegraphing location of U.S. troops on live tv when there are snipers in the areas assists the enemies, etc.

[Cryptoad]

50. I think you are either very young or

very foolish! Even your opening statement of wanting me to define our enemies tells me much. You have far greater enemies than the our government. and it appears to me they are using you as a tool.

[Harmony Blue]

51. So you can't define our enemies

Yes I am very young (I am 30 years old). I was a young boy watching the Gulf War live on tv and I didn't understand how this could end in a positive outcome for the long term. I was in my world history class in high school when my world history teacher Mr. Farely announced Clinton had just launched cruise missile strikes in Afghanistan terrorist camps. Just as I graduated high school, 9/11 happened in my first year of college. I watched as many of my classmates at the young age of 18/19 be shipped off to war in Afghanistan and then eventually Iraq if they survived a tour in Afghanistan. Many of my classmates didn't even make it to the ten year high school reunion that was held two years ago because they died in Afghanistan or Iraq.

It is safe to say the enemy is us. I dream of a world where war isn't the focal point of American society, so yes please call me naive for wishing such a reality.

[Cryptoad]

52. Thank you ,,,

for illustrating my post! I once believe as you in many ways.... I went to war in Nam, I came back an protested against it, I have worked around the world,,,, and it is full of our enemies, people who would destroy our country and kill our citizens for many reasons, . Our Govt is not perfect but it far better than any thing I have experienced out there. If they could be so easily defined as you want them ,,,,, they would not be such a threat to our way of life,

Good luck on your quest.

[mindwalker_i]

23. Aw man, you're going to get them all riled up

And we just got them all down for a nice nap so we could discuss these issues calmly!

[burnodo]

25. Not so much in this thread

Apparently

[mindwalker_i]

28. That's because they all woke up and started crying again

[backscatter712]

30. Attention Booz Allen employees! We have a Code Brown! Repeat! A Code Brown! n/t

[Summer Hathaway]

8. Thanks for this stunning display of ODS ...

Obama states that he doesn't believe Snowden is a hero or a patriot - which convinces you that Snowden is both.

[Kahuna]

11. becaaaause...... people apparently trust snowden more than they

trust the President. FTR, I do not.

[Summer Hathaway]

13. To be fair

Snowden did say that leakers should be shot in the balls, and social security recipients are moochers.

Some people obviously believe that's "heroism" at its finest.

[Kahuna]

42. Snowden is a teabagger intent on embarrassing the president..

That is all.

[Raksha]

17. That's absolutely true - what's so irrational about it?

I got Harmony Blue's point immediately, and I'm not sure why you didn't. The point is that Obama HAD to say explicitly that he doesn't think Snowden is a hero or a patriot. He was responding to public opinion.

If people had been calling him a traitor and screaming for his head, Obama would have handled the situation very differently.

[Summer Hathaway]

20. Obama was asked a specific question

as to whether he thinks Snowden is a patriot. He responded that he doesn't. He didn't "have to say that' - he stated his views precisely.

I'm sure HB didn't mean to make the point that they suffer from ODS. It was an inadvertent admission: Obama says that Snowden isn't a patriot, which convinces me more than ever that he is.

[ProSense]

9. He didn't

"When the President of the United States has to state explicitly that he doesn't believe Snowden is a hero, or a patriot, that is when I know that the forces of the 1% have lost control of their messaging."

...just say that.

President Obama: Mr. Snowden has been charged with three felonies.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023436454

"Edward Snowden broke the law by releasing classified information. This isn't under debate"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439290

[sabrina 1]

10. The old divide and conquer routine, and the obscene use of 9/11 to excuse everything, are no

longer working. Their worst nightmare is that the PEOPLE, not the various groups of extremists they use to get us all excited over, will unite against the lies and mostly against that huge Profit Machine known as 'terror' and they are losing control of the population.

Nothing they do will work, until they start remembering who they are working for and start telling the truth. The truth is always easier.

[cantbeserious]

38. +1 - Roger That

eom

[mazzarro]

12. Sadly transparency is severely lacking in the Snowden incident

The unfortunate fact is that a president from the Democratic Party is making the case for a distrustful government which the rethugs and teapot-bagger politicians will have their cries for bad-big-evil government advanced for them beyond what the progressives will ever be able counter anytime soon.

[Lint Head]

15. K&R. Guantanamo is still open. GWB was not prosecuted. Bankers and Wall Street thieves run free.

It always takes a citizen who must do something considered illegal to change things. Voting does nothing any longer other than change the scenery and the script.

[forestpath]

27. +1

[cantbeserious]

37. +1

eom

[reformist2]

19. Yep. This incident has also caused my opinion of Obama to go into the negative for the first time.

[WillyT]

21. HUGE K & R !!!

[Dj13Francis]

22. And more than ever

I'm convinced the dude is CIA. Just like Julian Assange. Before you murderize me with your comments take a look at it as though that's possible and then contemplate if maybe, just maybe they're playing us. I ain't the only one with that theory.

[Cryptoad]

34. It is looking more

It is looking more and more like that to me also.

TOO many tactics of the RW are being placed into the game for it to be anything but a setup!

[Peacetrain]

26. You can take this one to the bank

There will be a book out in a couple of years, and the behind the scenes happenings will be fodder for the talk circuit.

You can poke each other in the eye with a stick all you want to.

The truth of what happened and is happening will find its way out.

[Raksha]

32. Yeah, I think we can take it to the bank.

I'm looking forward to that book!

[forestpath]

29. K&R. When presidents trot out the "patriot" card, that is an automatic sign of pandering.

I don't know what is worse, the pandering itself or the attitude that we can't see through it.

[cantbeserious]

31. Kick And Recommend

eom

[Catherina]

35. K&R! n/t

[millennialmax]

39. President Obama will be in the WH for 3 more years.

And Snowden will never leave Russia a free man.

No viable 2016 contenders will pardon the man.

Put Snowden on a pedestal and trash Obama all you want.

It's not going to change a thing for the foreseeable future.

The insignificant minority of people that want Snowden pardoned, statues built for him, and the gutting of our intelligence agencies are just pissing in the wind at this point.

[Maedhros]

40. If you would like reasonable replies to your posts

then lay off the needlessly insulting language and mocking smilies.

Make your point, and let others post their counter-points, without sneering at them. It leads to reasonable discussion, which is the object of this forum.

[mimi85]

41. So true!

Not to mention that if you go door to door on your block and ask who Edward Snowden is, 90% of the people will give you a blank stare.

[sabrina 1]

46. They said that about Ellsberg too.

I love it when people insist on ignoring reality, as many did back then.

Keep on telling yourself whatever makes you feel better, the rest of us will continue to keep the pressure on to end these egregious Bush policies which we expected to see the beginning of five years ago.

So thanks go to all the Whistle Blowers who kept these issues on the table, preventing the corrupt Private Corps from silencing the millions of people who have been waiting for an opportunity like this to finally put a stop to their 'security' gravy train.

[Bonobo]

53. 80-20! nt

[woo me with science]

44. A clear, cold blast of truth. Thank you.

K&R