Neighbors Want Family's Handicap Ramp Removed

[Tony_FLADEM]

A handicap ramp in front of a Fountain family's house is in the middle of a neighborhood squabble.

Vincent and Heidi Giesegh say their neighbors are threatening legal action if they don't remove the ramp. They say the next door couple is worried that the ramp will hurt the value of their home. The Giesegh's say they need it for their 16 year old daughter Kirsten who has Cerebral Palsy.

"As she goes into her spastic modes, we could just tumble down the stairs and both of us could get massively hurt," said Heidi Giesegh.

The Giesegh's neighborhood doesn't have an HOA, and the family says the City of Fountain told them it was ok to install the ramp and widen their driveway for a handicap van. 11 News went next door to get the neighbor's side of the story and they told us no comment.

"It's kind of irritating," said Vincent Giesegh. "I mean we're trying to do our best to assist our daughter with her daily needs to get in and out of the house."

The Giesegh's home is part of a community under construction. We reached out to the home's builder and they say they've also received complaints from the neighbors.

The Giesegh's say they've contacted the Rocky Mountain American Disability Center for help.

http://www.kktv.com/home/headlines/NEIGHBORS-WANT-FAMILYS-HANDICAP-RAMP-REMOVED-218930251.html

[SummerSnow]

1. The ADA protects disabled Americans...let them go to court about their home value

[markiv]

104. true - all the neighbors will acomplish

is making themselves look like total losers

[Scuba]

107. They've already achieved that "goal".

[Tree-Hugger]

2. Wow

People can be such evil pieces of shit.

[tammywammy]

3. Those neighbors can go fuck themselves.

What disgusting people.

[hobbit709]

10. Repeatedly.

[sakabatou]

25. +1

[friendly_iconoclast]

60. With barbed wire...

[Posteritatis]

53. Them and anyone vile enough to support them. Ugh. (nt)

[bluestate10]

89. I am willing to bet that the complaining neighbors consider themselves stout christians and vote

republican without bating an eye.

[lpbk2713]

94. Heck, they prolly even have Support the Troops stickers on their SUV bumpers.

... while they do all they can to take away the troops' benefits.

[sufrommich]

4. Cruel,cold, heartless people.nt

[sharp_stick]

5. That ramp should be protected by the ADA

I'd be amazed if anyone actually tried to force them to remove it.

At first I thought maybe it was a slap-dash piece of junk homemade ramp but the picture shows it to be, at least on first view, a professionally made concrete ramp.

The neighbors should be fucking embarrassed.

[Marrah_G]

6. I feel bad that the family has such nasty neighbors.

[d_r]

7. wow

they made that out of concrete, not just a slapped together thing.

Those neighbors suck. What horrible people.

[bunnies]

8. The next door couple are assholes who should be ashamed of themselves.

[Dawson Leery]

9. Go to Hell!

I am sure these neighbors are good small town "Christian" folk too.

[LostOne4Ever]

11. It's the family of the handicapped kid who should sue

Their home value is going to plummet for having such horrible selfish greedy bigots as neighbors.

[blogslut]

12. Nice ramp.

Nice house. Nice yard. Shit neighbors.

[mainer]

14. Agree, it's not unsightly at all. Let some plants grow in front of it

and you won't even notice it's there.

[Liberal_in_LA]

26. agreed. it's professionally done, not the wooden thing we had for my father's wheelchair

[Arkansas Granny]

35. Yes, a little landscaping and it wouldn't even be noticed.

[Posteritatis]

58. Probably adds a good chunk to the home's value, too. (nt)

[Dash87]

13. FFS

Sometimes it's hard to keep faith in humanity.

[TeeYiYi]

15. How could that ramp possiby hurt home values in the neighborhood?

The family could have installed a less attractive ramp and they'd still be within their rights.

Creepy neighbors.

TYY

[haele]

16. How does that really nice, professional looking ramp decrease the neighborhood home values?

It could only be nicer if they fronted it with tiling detail or a water feature. If they had added a small curb detail to the side of the ramp, no one could even see it was a ramp; it would just look like a nice stair entry.
Honestly, even as it is that's a ramp that would, if anything, increase the value of a house it was added to. It shows care, concern and enough money to make an investment to do something right by the house.

The neighbors are morons.

Haele

[vankuria]

17. Disgusting!

Makes me so sad to read this type of BS, shame on those horrible neighbors! As an advocate for the disabled and someone who has worked in the development of community based alternatives to institutions, many studies have been done over the years and show having ramps, group homes, or community based services in communities does nothing to decrease home values. The picture shows a lovely home, with a professionally installed ramp. The parents should be commended for taking care of their disabled daughter and providing her with safe access in and out of the home. We have a ramp on our house, my husband built it for my mother who was in a wheelchair the last few years of her life. My mom has since passed, however we are keeping the ramp in case we need it for ourselves someday or if down the road a family member may need it.

[Liberal_in_LA]

27. +100

[MuseRider]

18. At first I thought

we could all send a little something so they could build a nicer ramp and get those assholes off their backs, they have enough to worry about, but then I went to the story and saw the ramp and my thought was WTF? Are we really turning into this? I have seen some pretty bad looking ramps but never heard of anyone complaining before and this is a nice ramp. My god, I do NOT understand people anymore.

[KittyWampus]

20. that is what gets me…. I've seen regular steps that don't look half as nice.

[Phentex]

61. It's sad and

disgusting. WHY would this bother anyone? I don't get it.

[lunasun]

103. Because this home is not like the others....

very sick
I hate house nazis!

[Blue Diadem]

19. Awful neighbors! Shame on them for their lack of compassion.

Those type of people never like it when confronted, no comment to the news! Typical! How awful for the family, to move into a new home and realize their neighbors are so uncaring.

[Are_grits_groceries]

21. They are getting pounded in the comments.I also have a feeling

that social media and people on the interwebs may give those jackasses a real wake-up call.

[laundry_queen]

102. Good. They deserve it. Assholes. nt

[MineralMan]

22. If I were the family, I'd paint the ramp Pepto Bismol pink,

with lavender polka dots. That's what I'd do.

"They're our daughter's favorite colors."

I'm into making statements like that. Freaking morons who object to a child's handicap ramp!

[Rex]

24. +100000000000000000

The neighbors sounds like shark chum.

[MineralMan]

34. Here's an example. There are many others.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

45. my fav is from GA

Stan Pike of Avondale GA wanted to put an addition on his house. Some of his snooty neighbors had homes on the historic registry and said no. So, he found a gaping hole in the rules of the community and painted his house electric green with purple polka dots. He got his way.

sP

[Rex]

23. Fuck the neighbors, it is the law and they can go

fuck themselves! The family could get in legal trouble without the ramp!

[Skittles]

28. I don't see the problem here

if the ramp was a cheap ugly eyesore I'd understand somewhat but what is wrong with that one? It looks well made.

[matt819]

49. Doesn't matter

if it was an ugly, cheap eyesore. It's their right to have a wheelchair ramp. As long as it meets code, could be ugly. Wouldn't matter.

[Skittles]

85. yup

I remember reading about a neighborhood where they all chipped in to upgrade a rickety ramp to top notch one

[Igel]

82. It's ugly.

A cheaper, uglier ramp might be preferable. That chunk of concrete is there for good. If--when--that family moves, the ramp stays.

Great if the new family needs a ramp. Otherwise it won't increase the value of the house. And if it decreases the value, it drags down surrounding properties ("comps"!).

A cheaper, uglier ramp would be temporary--even if "temporary" means 15 years. Family moves, the 16-year-old daughter hits 25 and moves on to someplace else, and the temp ramp can be yanked.

Still, the ramp tells me that the family intends to stay there for many a decade with their child.

It's the same with houses with small basketball courts in their postage-stamp-sized back yards. They put them in for their kids, aged 12 or 13. It's a "feature" and a "plus" only if you have kids the right age who like basketball. 3 years later the court's unused because the court's not big enough for the kid and his 8 friends to play on so they all congregate at a portable hoop set up in a neighbor's driveway.

[bluestate10]

90. If the family put up hedges around it, that would make the ramp invisible and may

be a selling point for a young couple that have active kids when the current family moves on. I can see young kids having a blast skateboarding on a ramp between hedges.

[JHB]

110. The problem is the cheap, ugly brainsores...

...which would be the neighbors who are complaining.

Neighbors who don't seem to realize that they might be depressing their own house prices, because potential buyers doing searches on the neighborhood could turn up this story, and decide they don't want a bunch of pricks for neighbors (at lease, not at the price they're asking for...).

[Yo_Mama]

120. No - homes are for living in

I wouldn't ever want to live in a neighborhood where people had trouble with a wheelchair ramp even if it was the ugliest thing ever constructed in the country.

Because to reject what a handicapped person needs to live safely in their house is to say that the handicapped person doesn't have the right to live. If you don't like the look of the ramp, then the neighbors get together and come up with the funds to build a nicer, safer one. You can never, never complain about something like that unless you are subhuman.

This is REALLY bad.

[Warpy]

29. It looks like it wass built to blend in with the house.

All they need is some sort of hedge around it and it will be fine. They could even plant drought tolerant native plants around it and it would be fine.

However, they'd still be living next door to heartless assholes.

[Rex]

30. If they did not have a ramp, the neighbors would be reporting them to CPS.

The neighbors seem to have it out for this family.

[Bay Boy]

31. Many ramps I've seen are visually obtrusive...

...can't say that about this one. And even if a ramp is visually obtrusive, so what?
People who are in wheelchairs still need to get in and out of their homes.

[frylock]

32. whatever became of the concept of buying a home to, you know, LIVE in?

[Blue Owl]

33. Sounds like the neighbors have built a ramp of their own -- straight to hell

n/t

[Bay Boy]

38. And they greased it with....

...their nasty words and actions.

[Sheldon Cooper]

36. Just for one week, I'd love for those neighbors to experience having spastic CP.

or some other condition which limits their mobility, and see how they manage.

[bluestate10]

91. The neighbors and their children likely don't have dramatic physical limitations, or any empathy. nt

[bahrbearian]

37. 30 years from now the Neighbors will wish they had one or when they have their own mobility issues.

[AndyA]

39. Nice neighbors. I'd probably want to reconsider living there with neighbors like that.

I think they have a right to a handicap ramp through the Americans With Disabilities Act. The neighbors need to stuff it.

[backscatter712]

40. Those neighbors should be tarred and feathered.

I see this as what it is - bigotry against the disabled.

[PD Turk]

41. I know what I'd do

My mom is wheelchair bound and we have had to build ramps, install a wheelchair lift in a van and modify a bathroom for her, it has been a lot of money and elbow grease to get her home and vehicle outfitted. If it were mom's neighbors acting up like that, I'd tell them to pound sand in their ass AND piss up a rope.

[Tx4obama]

42. Easy solution: lower the height of the black railing and plant some pretty flowering bushes...

... like azaleas around the base of the ramp - then it would hardly even be noticeable.

[NutmegYankee]

48. Or you can just tell the neighbor to GFY.

This is basic property rights here. If the ramp in in compliance with code, the neighbors have no right to threaten anything.

[Phentex]

59. I think that's a better solution myself...

[demwing]

62. ^^this^^

Is the correct response

[WorseBeforeBetter]

69. That works, but I'd like to see the "nice" neighbors...

step up and offer to landscape. Have a BBQ/picnic/whatever and make it a fun event. I'd be there, as would everyone in my family. Hell, my stepfather would have hosted it!

[Igel]

84. That would be a good solution.

However, in 2013 America, it's all about individual rights. Neighbors? Community? GFY. Rugged individualism to the max.

It's why that horrible, offensive concept "Homeowner's Association" was devised. To draw up and enforce community standards.

Unfortunately, that's been hijacked by people who, in the end, view everything in terms of money.

[NutmegYankee]

99. I like community -

But people who are so depraved as to complain about a ramp for a disabled child should not be tolerated. One does have to enforce standards, and one of them is to stop bullies like them.

[Lancero]

97. Pretty vulgar though...

I'd proably go with the slightly nicer ESA - Eat shit, asshole.

[NutmegYankee]

98. !

[csziggy]

77. Railing heights are a safety and code issue, not aesthetic

Lower than what is on the ramp now could be dangerous if the daughter has an episode - she could topple over it. Or it could make the railing ineffective if needed for support.

Before I replaced my knees and during my recovery, I found many handrails on publicly accessible buildings were too low, too high, or non-existent - or worse than all of those, flimsy. I was lucky that my disability was temporary.

When we built our house, I researched the codes and recommendations for hand rails and safety rails. My house is safer than the rehab hospital I went after my knee replacements.

[Tx4obama]

80. Well then...

Since the child uses a wheel chair...

A nice jasmine or wisteria vine could be trained to grow on the railing - that way the railing would be still there and it would look pretty

[opiate69]

43. Fuck those neighbors.. also,

Fuck the news writer and editor who are apparently stuck in the 50s, for using "handicap" instead of the widely preferred "disabled".

[SoCalDem]

44. Suggestion to the builders.. MAKE THE HOMES HANDICAPPED ACCESSIBLE

from the get-go. and if the access is built in and pre-designed, perhaps neighbors won't need to get their panties all in a wad..

[KamaAina]

52. There's a growing movement toward universal design

it is even required for new construction in a few communities, such as Murrieta in SoCal.

[SoCalDem]

54. It makes so much sense..It;s cheaper to do right off

than to have to retrofit on a limited budget later on....more likely to be built to code as well.

[wercal]

75. Judging by the steep driveway, and still stairs to the door, this is probably a forced walkout

The builder jacks the house up as high as he can, so the basement level can have a walkout door to the backyard. Its a very popular home plan - the builder gets to charge more, because a legal bedroom can be put in the basement...and there are no unsightly egress window wells.

And the homeowner gets to enjoy a lot of daylight in the basement, and can safely use the basement as a bedroom (I know a kid who died in a housefire due to an improper basement bedroom).

Now there is a movement towards accessible floorplans - geared towards empty nesters (not young families). The floor box is recessed into a pocket in the foundation, so there is no step up to the front door. Doorways are wider, light switches are lower, etc.

Builders build for different markets, within code. I don't see code requiring zero step entrances any time soon...nor should it, IMHO, as forced walkouts provide a better quality of life and can be safer.....and ramps are a viable option. In fact, I did a subdivision once, which had HUD money in it (it was for low income renters with vouchers). Every single house had a ramp built in the front, to be ADA.

[lpbk2713]

46. This needs all the publicity it can possibly get.

Assholes like this would make the property values zero IMO.
Who the fug would want to live among scumbags like this?
If I lived anywhere near this area I would consider placing an
ad in the paper pointing out what kind of assholes they are
when I would see one their houses up for sale.

[NutmegYankee]

47. Where the fuck do these people get the right to threaten legal action?

No HOA and ramp in compliance with city code. It's not their property.

[Posteritatis]

57. People who want to control their neighbors like to claim all sorts of rights

Watch, they'll whine and howl and talk about how a neighbor who isn't just joining the suburban hive mind is assaulting them by breaking their carefully cultivated image of perfection.

It's all about them - that's why just about every instance of "neighbors threatening homeowner unless they do X" involves claiming some entirely perceived threat to the value of other homes. Doesn't matter if it's clotheslines, painting the house the wrong colour, or the new family next door failing the colour or lifestyle test. It's always "these people need to be just like me or else it'll hurt the value of my home, because anyone like me wouldn't live next to lesser people!"

So yeah, what most other people in the thread are saying: fuck 'em.

[CK_John]

50. It has nothing to do with the ramp. It's all about sick people who might attract amvets

and other non perfect people.

[Mnemosyne]

108. You hit it on the head, John. They don't want to look at anyone not perfect. They are likely hoping

to drive them from the neighborhood.

My sisters are that kind of people, "I know there are handicapped people, but why should I have to look at them?" They were embarrassed when I started having to use a cane, even claiming I was faking it.

Assholes.

[DinahMoeHum]

51. Seems the neighbors have their own disability: Morally Handicapped

[bravenak]

55. That's some shameful shit right there.

America. They probably want to take her health insurance away too.

[duffyduff]

56. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with that ramp.

What a bunch of idiots for neighbors.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

63. Bunch of assholes.

Once the names of these neighbors come out it's not going to be pretty for them. How can some people be so cold?

[KamaAina]

64. Ableism is just as pervasive as any other form of bigotry

[tanyev]

65. People with the ramp have more reason to worry about home values--

now that it's public knowledge the next door neighbors are assholes.

[Catherine Vincent]

66. The White House should build a ramp

And mention those uppity neighbors during his SOTU speech.

[DrDan]

67. Colorado Springs

(didn't want Fl to get the blame for this)

[woo me with science]

68. This was a Phil Hendrie skit.

You cannot even parody the meanness of this country anymore.

[wercal]

70. I thought this would be some home made eyesore, based on the complaints...

But the photo shows a professionally made concrete ramp.

The neighbors should offer to plant some hedges or trees, if they don't want to look at it.

[gollygee]

71. The ramp looks nice. Do they think showing that someone disabled lives there

will lower their home's value? Because that ramp is not going to change any value of any home except the one it's on, and it'll raise that particular home's value. I think they just don't want to see evidence of the diabled in their neighborhood, and to that, I say see reply #3.

[Taitertots]

72. Can you actually sue someone on the grounds that their property reduces the value of your's?

Even if they win in court, the burden of having to defend themselves against a bullshit case would show how distorted our legal system has become.

[gulliver]

96. HOAs can do a lot, and rightfully so.

People in them do have a shared interest in keeping the value of all properties up. I love mine. Without it we might have one or two neighbors putting boat sheds in their front lawn or piling up used tires. The fixed income seniors who live next to them can't afford to have their home value drop by tens of thousands of dollars just because they are unlucky enough to live next to slobs.

On the other hand, this ramp doesn't look too bad to me. And even if there were a HOA in this case, I'll bet it wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of getting rid of the ramp. I have to think ADA would trump the HOA.

[Taitertots]

100. I guess I've never had to worry about that, living in a city that already prevents stuff like that

My understanding is that HOA can only sue because home owners signed a contract governing their behavior. Your response doesn't actually answer my question. Is indirectly causing decreasing property value ground for a lawsuit?

[Codeine]

73. Wait. WTF? That's a well-made and professional-looking ramp.

I was expecting a photo of some half-assed wooden eyesore. There's nothing about this ramp that should bother anybody.

Dicks.

[Butterbean]

101. Took the words right out of my mouth.

I can't believe these people are actually bitching about a well-constructed, well-maintained, aesthetically pleasing ramp that blends in with the front of the house. What the actual fuck, people? Really?

[Matariki]

74. Wow - I was expecting some kind of rickety DIY piece of crap

something that might justify such a heartless and selfish complaint.

But the thing is well made and blends in with the entrance of the house. Sheesh. I'm thinking there should be some kind of treatment for a lack of empathy. It seems epidemic.

[Raine1967]

76. I have a question about something the article mentioned:

The Giesegh's neighborhood doesn't have an HOA

Could an HOA usurp the ADA?

Overall, these neighbors (and other's who have complained according to the article) are just really shitty people. I'm not religious, but I always loved this idea:

WHATEVER YOU DID UNTO ONE OF THE LEAST, YOU DID UNTO ME


Shame on these people.

[Logical]

78. I wish I lived close to this family. I would stop by the neighbors and tell them they are assholes!

[hrmjustin]

81. Some people can be so cruel.

[RedCappedBandit]

83. The neighbors are just gonna have to.. fuckin' deal with it, I'd say. nt

[riderinthestorm]

86. The family can and will win but regardless, they are going to have to live with these awful

disgusting neighbors for very, very long time.

Ugh.

[steve2470]

87. those neighbors are idiots and callous to boot nt

[kestrel91316]

88. My guess is the neighbors are teabaggers who simply hate handicapped people

and consider them lazy moochers and freeloaders.

[bluestate10]

92. The complaining neighbors strike me as perfect republicans. They won't have any empathy

until life hits them squarely in the grill and steps on their windpipes. When they need help, they will beg for help from strangers and won't see the fucking contradictions.

[burnodo]

93. I think the neighbors should move immediately

and sell their house at a loss

[Lancero]

95. If the neighbors are so concerned about the unsightly

Access ramp, why don't they offer to pay to have it concealed?

Conceal the concrete with a nice rock wall, same kind as is on the bottom of the house, and repaint to rails to match better with the color scheme for the house.

If this is to expensive, then the negibors could instead grow up and learn to not complain about everything.

[midnight]

105. K&R

[deek]

106. "visit-ability"

If they would just make all homes "visitable" by people who use wheelchairs, such ramps wouldn't be needed in the first place and, secondly, people could actually visit family and friends without their spending extra money!!

[TransitJohn]

109. This is Conservatism, people. Money is more important than people to the neighbors.

I'd bet a lot of money the complaining neighbors are Republicans.

[Brigid]

111. What are these boneheaded neighbors on about?

That is one of the nicest ramps I have ever seen. And this family has every right to look after their daughter's needs in this way. Some people!

[KurtNYC]

112. Hurt the value of their home? So the ramp could save them thousands in property taxes?

If their house is not currently on the market then they have no damages. In fact, if it does hurt the value of their home and the assessor agrees then they are saving money.

[Brigid]

113. A lot of people still haven't learned . . .

The biggest lesson of the housing boom and bust: Your home is not a gold mine. It's a place to live. Lots of people just love to fantasize, like they did back in the boom days, about how much their house is worth, and are ahocked when it isn't a small fortune.They don't like anything that they think might intrude on that fantasy, like a neighbor constructing a ramp for their daughter.

[KurtNYC]

116. Had a neighbor who bought the house next door for $190, put $60K in

but he put in fake beams and did his own contracting. No permits. He stuff the walls with newspaper for insulation (!)

When he couldn't sell the house at $200 he blamed the neighbor on the other side because that neighbor has a metal sculpture in a courtyard which you can see from the 3rd floor of his newspaper house. A sculpture which you can only see if you are standing at the window looking for it. He screamed at him. Flipped him off when he drove by, all kinds of childishness because he convinced himself that the sculpture was the problem.

He eventually sold for $120 or so and the new owner is now filling the 3rd dumpster sled with the guts of that house -- beams, walls, cabinets, toilets, everything.

[Nine]

114. Neighbors are jerks but I disagree the ramp is attractive.

Solidly made? Yes. Pretty? No. If it were mine, I'd have it painted to blend in with the house more. And it looks like they've planted something to go in front already, but I'd have gone with mature, low-maintenance bushes all around the ramp from the start.

That said, the house itself looks like the typical, prevalent suburban style these days. I live in such a neighborhood myself and I don't consider them all that attractive to begin with. The houses are ugly, the garages predominate, and even so there are usually cars littering every driveway and all along the street. In such an environment, I can't see that ramp as being more of an eyesore than anything else.

Now if someone put that concrete and metal ramp in an old, historic neighborhood with beautiful homes, I might feel some irritation myself though I would still keep my feelings to myself and try to focus on the fact that my family is fortunate enough to be in good health.

[barbtries]

115. people are assholes.

that is all.

[Nye Bevan]

117. Monsters (nt)

[agentS]

118. Since when does someone else's disability hurt a different person's property values?

Those terrible neighbors seem to have NO IDEA what affects or doesn't affect property values.
I bet they're house flippers of some sort- people who buy and sell houses quickly (3 years or less) but it was THAT sort of behavior that led to the housing market collapse (people started flipping their houses at the same time).

I say screw 'em and keep the ramp the way it is.

[Yo_Mama]

119. Despite DU's loathing of the southern states, and Baptists

I've got to tell you that they have their good side.

Because if this happened in GA, believe me, the VERY LAST WORRY the neighbors would have on their minds right now would be about their neighbor's wheelchair ramp. Nooooooo. They'd be getting an education on property values so damned quick and hard they'd be over there volunteering to paint the neighbor's house or carry bricks or whatever, that is, unless they wanted to be selling their house for about 6 bucks, due to the toxic human waste that has been living inside it.

What makes a neighborhood and property values are good neighbors, and it would seem that some people in that development have things just exactly backwards.

In GA, if your neighbor has trouble getting a family member in a wheelchair in and out of the house, not only do you not complain about the wheelchair ramp, you'd better be over there helping to build it, or raise money to buy the materials. Otherwise, you are in some DEEP SHIT. And I mean that quite literally - it would not be impossible that the complainant would find himself shoulder deep in an uncapped cesspit, what with everyone helping to tidy up the neighborhood and put things in their right place. Due to a concern with property values, you understand.

Now one may complain about the social coercion factor in GA, but it does have its bright side. Because if you are a Baptist you're not supposed to drink. This causes all sorts of suffering when you're thirsty on a Saturday afternoon and you keep driving past the liquor store only to see the trucks of other members of your church in the parking lot, which of course means you have to keep driving. But there's a reasonably well-known escape clause, because if you've been over at your neighbor's helping six other guys build the wheelchair ramp in the hot sun, blessedly beer will appear. And in these circumstances, beer is not alcoholic at all. It is only sterile liquid refreshment which is absolutely essential to prevent dehydration so as to continue the good work, and if your pastor is over there he will be sloshing them down too. Thus, at the end of the day you will be sitting there thinking that there is really some point to life after all and feeling a little as if Jesus has just showed up nodding approvingly, handing you a beer. And life will be good, and you will know that it is good, even if troubles do come along, because people help each other and so are not alone in their trouble.

This is not a "neighborhood squabble". It is an ethical sinkhole leading directly to the hell that human beings are so apt to create when they cease to see the other human beings around them.