General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums‘We’re the official OWS group!’ ‘No, we’re the official OWS group!’ and so forth
This is (almost) funny: So the upcoming OWS convention in Philly that weve been reading about all day? Another OWS group is publicly countering the legitimacy of that group now, claiming that the so-called 99% Declaration Group is not endorsed by the official group and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.
What a bunch of pompous crybabies. Who gives a fuck? No one owns this movement. They can do it in their way, in their style and you can do it in your own way. Why try to hold this energy back in any way? Whats the point, youre not on the same side?
http://www.dangerousminds.net/comments/were_the_official_ows_group_no_were_the_official_ows_group_and_so_forth
ETA:
shraby
(21,946 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)Is laughable at this point.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)jberryhill
(62,444 posts)cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Or so I've read.
joshcryer
(62,279 posts)The OWS General Assembly is saying that it did not at any time sign on to the intents of the "99% Declaration."
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)But the same TIRED OLD CRITICS WHO DON'T KNOW BETTER lol never waste an opportunity to launch dumb smears no matter how wrong they may be.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)still looks like a good protest. OWS probably doesn't want people to think they are one in the same, because they are not.
Occupy may have their own protest in a different city on the same day. July 4th and all. THey just want people to be able to know which is which.
Yes the critics are quite laughable. They sound to me so much like the republicans hoping that shit will go wrong so they will look better. Makes no real sense to me. It's not quite as bad as bashing girl scouts, but it's a similar kind of thing. Why would anyone who is not on the Opposite side want to take time to bring down and insult the only people on this planet who are trying to make it change for a good way for the peoples? Just makes no sense.
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)for promoting abortion and just as accurate.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)everyday with stupid shit like this.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Both groups recognize this fact. It is the lazy corporate press that keeps conflating the two.
Vincardog
(20,234 posts)As I undersand it OWS does not want to be played and have the people believe that whomever is pushing this agenda
actually represents OWS.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)a clarification. The media, always looking for a sensational spin, pretends that it is splinter.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)this argument really is getting pretty old and tired because, people being what they are, we would have to claim the same thing about, oh...religions...most of them thinking they're the only TRUE religion with the only TRUE god.
Even down to infighting within the same sects of a religion. So are religious malcontents also "agitators", or are they people who truly believe they, and only they, are "right"?
People are always going to argue over sovereignty, and to claim that those who do it are merely "agitators" put there by the opposition is just ridiculous.
Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)no grass roots holding anything there, just more corporate cash and fox news support.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)They are united in their opposition but are not united for a specific policy.
Americans are united in wanting to see parts of the government reduced.
Some want the Defense Department reduced and some want assitance to the poor reduced.
TheWraith
(24,331 posts)I was literally about to bring up the "people's front" bit when I clicked to reply, and you'd edited to add that. That's just about as good an indictment of that as any, and the left is particularly vulnerable to it. Oh, it happens on the right too, but not one hundredth as much as on the left. Just look at people like Robert Reich and company, and imagine if a right-wing commentator had been as loudly and frequently critical of Bush over issues of style rather than substance. You'd have to imagine, because there are no actual instances to point at.
Some people just don't get that the entire point of party politics is to have one cohesive entity that can actually do something, and where multiple small organizations can come together under the same umbrella. Anybody who doesn't get WHY we have political parties shouldn't be pretending like they know anything about politics.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)But the idiot lazy press can't be bothered to distinguish between them.
Hissyspit
(45,788 posts)TheWraith
(24,331 posts)I see no reason to pretend a person is right when they're wrong.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)post on empty OWS threads like this one? Maybe it was your buddy.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Every single one I ever went to descended into a farce of this kind. Every one.
A total fucking joke.
The "amateur" activists get their claws in a thing and it turns into their little obsession, and it's suddenly some silly ass high schoolish nonsense, who's doing what to whom, and so on.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)who have repeatedly announced that they are not officially affiliated with OWS has descended into any kind of farce.
Both groups recognize that they have different methods and goals to achieve those methods.
It is the lazy press and their lazy readers who seem to have an investment of conflating the two.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)I am a proud (ex-current) member of ACT UP, the Women's Action Coalition SF, Food Not Bombs, Houses Not Jails, Cop Watch Oakland, and Lesbian Avengers and Occupy SF.
The 99% Declaration Working Group has publicly announced that they are not OWS.
Why do you have a problem with that?
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"Every single one I ever went to descended into a farce of this kind..."
One wonders if the problem lies with "lefty meetings" or merely your ability to discern the genuine from the frivolous, as the meetings I attend are serious, effective, and experienced in evaluating, laying out and then realize an objective or agenda.
However, I can certainly empathize with laying all the blame at the feet of the one while dismissing or even denying the other.
pipi_k
(21,020 posts)that's the way is usually is, though...
If you don't believe 100%...don't lockstep with the group...then you're not a REAL _______ (fill in the blank).
It applies to just about anything...politics...religion, etc.
That even applies here at DU, where one would think intelligent people would be able to agree to disagree on some things and get along with each other. One can't be a "real" Democrat/Liberal/whatever unless all the "rules" are followed.
Stray just a bit from those "rules" and risk being called anything from an "apologist" to a "Republican troll".
EFerrari
(163,986 posts)These are two different group who have only been yoked together in this article so the author could insult OWS.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)EFerrari
(163,986 posts)Maybe time to read up before you keep posting more misinformed attacks on OWS.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)If so, why not just say it?
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Get the corporate money out of elections.
randome
(34,845 posts)Because 'get the corporate money out of elections' sounds pretty open to interpretation.
Do you mean that anyone who works for a corporation cannot contribute?
Do you mean that corporations should not be consulted on legislation that affects them?
It's always more complicated than it seems.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)But I was responding to a poster who wanted to know a goal.
As far as I can see, this is one of many.
Maybe he can give you the answer.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)and outside of electoral politics. The 99% Declaration Working Group seeks to change the system from within (i.e., running candidates for office.)
Also, the 99% Declaration Working Group is exclusionary. OWS is not.
The People of Color Working Group of OWS has addressed this:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=306742022713249&id=335809589775158
represent a collective response from the PoC group or any other group:
"Must be a U.S. citizen or Lawful Permanent Resident and reside in the
Congressional District for which you are running on the date the polls
open in March."
This language is exclusionary to many in the immigrant community,
including undocumented immigrants.
"Delegates must not have been convicted of a violent felony offense in
the past 10 years."
This is exclusionary to some members of the formerly incarcerated
community, and alienating to presently incarcerated individuals,
formerly incarcerated individuals, their friends, family, and allies,
and those who are dedicated to Prison-Industrial Complex organizing
and activism.
"Elected Delegates MAY have to provide their date of birth for a
criminal background check ONLY if a name-search flags a violent felony
conviction within the past ten years."
SEE ABOVE. Also, this perpetruates the onslaught of stigma and shaming
that many formerly incarcerated individuals experience. It is not
conducive to organizing and activism dedicated to Prisoner Solidarity
and ending Mass Incarceration. (The 21st Grievance "[Curtailing
Private Prisons]" on the site barely touches upon the depth of the
racist Prison-Industrial Complex and comes across as a half-hearted
after thought.)
"Delegates must provide home address, a phone number and zip code (not
to be made public)."
Exclusionary to homeless individuals.
randome
(34,845 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)JSnuffy
(374 posts)Nailed it...
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Not the first time this has happened, and won't be the last.
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Really? That's your response here?
pintobean
(18,101 posts)joshcryer
(62,279 posts)They even use "Red, white, and Blue" imagery.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)It is an entirely different organization that the media, in their lazy ignorance, can't report properly.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Especially when you try to dig up things to defame an important social movement.
There's all sorts of cool stuff!!!
Rex
(65,616 posts)that this is just the internets and DU and no one cares or reads this place. Fine. I agree and laugh when they post stuff like in the OP. Monty Python is pretty dam funny.
They are right, none of it matters...it won't do one thing to the OWS movement.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)The fact that the lazy ignorant press refuses to recognize that doesn't mean that we have to buy into their frame.
MLK disavowed the tactics of the Black Panthers. That did not mean that they did not have similar goals.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Nah, that would be too simple and too true to the Occupy movement's true spirit.
nevermind.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)led organization. OWS is not. Here is what the "leader", Michael Pollock thinks of OWS...
http://news.infoshop.org/article.php?story=20111217130645347
JNathanK
(185 posts)...If they want to form a national, occupy group, there needs to be a list of objectives the majority of all Occupy communities agree on that everyone can be free to endorse or nod endorse.
2pooped2pop
(5,420 posts)one group goes by OWS and the other goes by 99%. You see. Not the same. Why would anyone older than 3 need an explanation?
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Javaman
(62,534 posts)It's been the long running mission of OWS not to have leaders.
However, that hasn't stopped self proclaimed leaders from trying.
since it is well known by now that OWS has been infiltrated by various police and government agencies, I wouldn't put it past them to try prop up some agent provocateur as being the "official" this or that of the OWS.
All of this smells like bullshit.
Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)Javaman
(62,534 posts)however, if you have been following the OWS, you would know of what I'm talking about.
It's apparent you do not.
cheers!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)"since it is well known by now that OWS has been infiltrated by various police and government agencies, I wouldn't put it past them to try prop up some agent provocateur as being the "official" this or that of the OWS."
Javaman
(62,534 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)isn't all that important to you as long as your argument is bolstered.
Javaman
(62,534 posts)I don't know what you are fishing for but you are looking in the wrong pond.
Tootles.
I stand by what I said and you have a problem with that. It appears, and I will state it yet again, you have obviously not been following the OWS movement, otherwise you would understand what I am saying.
But alas, you do not and choose not to research.
Have fun. We are done.
And best yet, you may now have the last word because it appears as if you desperately need that.
Cheers!
Tarheel_Dem
(31,245 posts)Honesty matters. So you have a nice day now, ya hear?
Javaman
(62,534 posts)you really are that childish.
I made a statement regarding the OWS and you don't like it. It's really that simple.
I asked you a question regarding OWS and you never answered it.
We are done.
You may now have the last word again, because it appears as if you desperately require it.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
greytdemocrat
(3,299 posts)That is perfect!!!!
Arkana
(24,347 posts)waterwatcher123
(144 posts)Hi,
This is my first post on DU. So, you will have to excuse me if I violate some of the conventions. I would say that, as a whole, you folks are really an incredible and generous group of people. I guess I never imagined that a community of "like minded" individuals could fight like family and then somehow support each other through such difficult times (bravo to you all).
With that said, I just wanted to mention that I watched this idea of holding the equivalent of a Continental Congress unfold during the OWS occupation of Zuccotti Park. From my vantage point (at the computer), it looked like the 99er Declaration organizer was a lawyer or journalist in the New York City area who had all kinds of energy and ideas. The 99er Declaration Committee worked with this fellow to draft a set of grievances that they hoped to use as starting point for the convention idea. This organizer then brought the idea of the convention and a draft list of grievances to the General Assembly in Zuccotti Park. It was not well received and the fellow behind the energy of the convention idea burned out and quit. Perhaps he is back (not sure if it is the same guy).
In any case, I think the idea is a great way to use the trappings of our democracy to raise some very important issues. What could be more fun that actually hammering out a list of grievances that represent the dreams of people from all walks of life? If enough people showed up and participated, the media would have no choice but to cover it. It would also be fun to take advantage of symbolism of Philadelphia on the 4th of July. Heck, it would even be possible to take a page from the Tea Party and dress the part.
I think we are all indebted to OWS for having the courage to challenge a system that increasingly favors the wealthy and well connected over everyone else. I just think that is impossible to ignore the "system" in bringing about this social change. The well connected use the system all the time to their advantage. It is about time that everyone else does the same.
Have a good one. I am for FDR's second bill of rights as a starting point for a list of grievances.
Waterwatcher123
Generic Other
(28,979 posts)Thanks for the eyewitness report. Consensus building is a difficult, and maybe impossible goal. It takes cooperation, compromise and mutual respect all easily lost in the heat of the moment.
Do you think the time has come to go with a majority vote and elected representatives?
girl gone mad
(20,634 posts)The 99% Declaration person specifically stated: "We are not the official OWS group."
OWS has said repeatedly: "Any statement released outside of the movement's official website, "should be considered independent of Occupy Wall Street."
If it isn't reported on the official web site, it's not endorsed by OWS. When the leader of an independent group claims they are an independent group, they are not OWS.
What part of this is confusing to you?
fascisthunter
(29,381 posts)I'm sure the 1% appreciates the effort though.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)I really can't see the problem with these 2 groups clarifying an issue that the press is too lazy to figure out themselves.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Pigeon holes are for pigeons.