Owner of Snowden’s Email Service on Why He Closed Lavabit Rather Than Comply With Gov’t

[Catherina]

Owner of Snowden’s Email Service on Why He Closed Lavabit Rather Than Comply With Gov’t

Lavabit, an encrypted email service believed to have been used by National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden, has abruptly shut down. The move came amidst a legal fight that appeared to involve U.S. government attempts to win access to customer information. In a Democracy Now! broadcast exclusive, we are joined by Lavabit owner Ladar Levison and his lawyer, Jesse Binnall. "Unfortunately, I can’t talk about it. I would like to, believe me," Levison says. "I think if the American public knew what our government was doing, they wouldn’t be allowed to do it anymore." In a message to his customers last week, Levison said: "I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people, or walk away from nearly 10 years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit." Levison said he was barred from discussing the events over the past six weeks that led to his decision. Soon after, another secure email provider called Silent Circle also announced it was shutting down.
Transcript

This is a rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final form.

AARON MATÉ: We turn now to the news an encrypted email service believed to have been used by National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden has abruptly shut down. The move came amidst a legal fight that appeared to involve U.S. government attempts to win access to customer information.

The owner of Lavabit, Ladar Levison, wrote a message online saying, quote, "I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people, or walk away from nearly 10 years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit." Ladar Levison said he was barred from discussing the events over the past six weeks that led to his decision.

He went on to write, quote, "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would strongly recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

Later on Thursday, another secure email provider called Silent Circle also announced it was shutting down.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, in a Democracy Now! broadcast exclusive, we go to Washington, D.C., where we’re joined by Ladar Levison, founder, owner and operator of Lavabit. We’re also joined by his lawyer, Jesse Binnall.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Ladar Levison, let’s begin with you. Explain the decision you made.

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah, well, I’ve—thank you, Amy. I’ve compared the decision to that of, you know, putting a beloved pet to sleep, you know, faced with the choice of watching it suffer or putting it to sleep quietly. It was a very difficult decision. But I felt that in the end I had to pick between the lesser of two evils and that shutting down the service, if it was no longer secure, was the better option. It was, in effect, the lesser of the two evils.

AMY GOODMAN: What are you facing? When you say "the lesser of two evils," what was the other choice?

LADAR LEVISON: Unfortunately, I can’t talk about that. I would like to, believe me. I think if the American public knew what our government was doing, they wouldn’t be allowed to do it anymore, which is why I’m here in D.C. today speaking to you. My hope is that, you know, the media can uncover what’s going on, without my assistance, and, you know, sort of pressure both Congress and our efforts through the court system to, in effect, put a cap on what it is the government is entitled to in terms of our private communications.

AARON MATÉ: For those who aren’t familiar with what encrypted email is, can you walk us through that and talk about what your service provided?

LADAR LEVISON: Certainly. You know, I’ve always liked to say my service was by geeks, for geeks. It’s grown up over the last 10 years, it’s sort of settled itself into serving those that are very privacy-conscious and security-focused. We offered secure access via high-grade encryption. And at least for our paid users, not for our free accounts—I think that’s an important distinction—we offered secure storage, where incoming emails were stored in such a way that they could only be accessed with the user’s password, so that, you know, even myself couldn’t retrieve those emails. And that’s what we meant by encrypted email. That’s a term that’s sort of been thrown around because there are so many different standards for encryption, but in our case it was encrypted in secure storage, because, as a third party, you know, I didn’t want to be put in a situation where I had to turn over private information. I just didn’t have it. I didn’t have access to it. And that was sort of—may have been the situation that I was facing. You know, obviously, I can’t speak to the details of any specific case, but—I’ll just leave it at that.

AMY GOODMAN: NSA leaker Edward Snowden recently described your decision to shut down Lavabit as, quote, "inspiring." He told The Guardian's Glenn Greenwald, quote, "America cannot succeed as a country where individuals like Mr. Levison have to relocate their businesses abroad to be successful. Employees and leaders at Google, Facebook, Microsoft, Yahoo, Apple, and the rest of our internet titans must ask themselves why they aren't fighting for our interests the same way small businesses are. The defense they have offered to this point is that they were compelled by laws they do not agree with, but one day of downtime for the coalition of their services could achieve what a hundred Lavabits could not."

Snowden went on to say, quote, "When Congress returns to session in September, let us take note of whether the internet industry’s statements and lobbyists—which were invisible in the lead-up to the Conyers-Amash vote—emerge on the side of the Free Internet or the NSA and its Intelligence Committees in Congress."

Ladar, you were the service provider for Edward Snowden?

LADAR LEVISON: I believe that’s correct. Obviously, I didn’t know him personally, but it’s been widely reported, and there was an email account bearing his name on my system, as I’ve been made well aware of recently.

AMY GOODMAN: Glenn Greenwald also wrote, "What is particularly creepy about the Lavabit self-shutdown is that the company is gagged by law even from discussing the legal challenges it has mounted and the court proceeding it has engaged. In other words, the American owner of the company believes his Constitutional rights and those of his customers are being violated by the US Government, but he is not allowed to talk about it."

Greenwald goes on to write, quote, "Just as is true for people who receive National Security Letters under the Patriot Act, Lavabit has been told they would face serious criminal sanctions if they publicly discuss what is being done to their company."

Ladar Levison, why did you start Lavabit?

LADAR LEVISON: Well, just to add one thing to Greenwald’s comments, I mean, there’s information that I can’t even share with my lawyer, let alone with the American public. So if we’re talking about secrecy, you know, it’s really been taken to the extreme. And I think it’s really being used by the current administration to cover up tactics that they may be ashamed of.

But just to answer your question, why did I start Lavabit? It was right out of college. I was sitting around with a group of my friends. I owned the domain name www.nerdshack.com, and we thought it would be cool to offer, you know, a free private email with a large quota, just like Gmail, and we sort of built the service along those lines. And as I was designing and developing the custom platform, it was right around when the PATRIOT Act came out. And that’s really what colored my opinion and my philosophy, and why I chose to take the extra effort and build in the secure storage features and sort of focus on the privacy niche and the security focus niche. And it’s really grown up from there. We’ve seen a lot of demand for, you know, people who want email but don’t necessarily want it lumped in and profiled along with their searches or their browsing history or any of their other Internet activities. And that’s really where we’ve focused and really how we’ve grown over the years, up to when I shut down 410,000 registered users.

AARON MATÉ: And, Ladar, during this time, you’ve complied with other government subpoenas. Is that correct?

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah, we’ve probably had at least two dozen subpoenas over the last 10 years, from local sheriffs’ offices all the way up to federal courts. And obviously I can’t speak to any particular one, but we’ve always complied with them. I think it’s important to note that, you know, I’ve always complied with the law. It’s just in this particular case I felt that complying with the law—

JESSE BINNALL: And we do have to be careful at this point.

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah, I—

JESSE BINNALL: But I think he can speak philosophically about the—his philosophy behind Lavabit and why it would lead to his decision to shut down.

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah, I have—

AMY GOODMAN: That’s Jesse Binnall, by the way. And, Jesse, how difficult is this for Ladar Levison, what he can say, what he can’t say? How high are the stakes here?

JESSE BINNALL: The stakes are very high. It’s a very unfortunate situation that, as Americans, we really are not supposed to have to worry about. But Ladar is in a situation where he has to watch every word he says when he’s talking to the press, for fear of being imprisoned. And we can’t even talk about what the legal requirements are that make it so he has to watch his words. But the simple fact is, I’m really here with him only because there are some very fine lines that he can’t cross, for fear of being dragged away in handcuffs. And that’s pretty much the exact fears that led the founders to give us the First Amendment in the first place. So it’s high stakes.

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah.

AARON MATÉ: And, Ladar, in your letter, you write that "A favorable decision would allow me to resurrect Lavabit as an American company." So, are you suggesting perhaps that you would consider moving it abroad?

LADAR LEVISON: I don’t think I can continue to run Lavabit abroad as an American citizen. I would have to move abroad, effectively, to administer the service. As an American citizen, I’m still subject to the laws and jurisdiction of the United States, particularly as long as I continue to live here. You know, that’s why I have a lot of respect for Snowden, because he gave up his entire life, the life that he’s known his entire life, so that he could speak out. I haven’t gotten to that point. I still hope that it’s possible to run a private service, private cloud data service, here in the United States without necessarily being forced to conduct surveillance on your users by the American government.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you say, Ladar, if you’ve received a national security letter?

LADAR LEVISON: No.

JESSE BINNALL: Unfortunately, he can’t.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to talk about that in a minute, the overall issue of what these are, for listeners and viewers who are not familiar with this. But, Ladar Levison, soon after you pulled the plug on Lavabit, another encrypted email provider called Silent Circle also shut down. Mike Janke, Silent Circle’s CEO and co-founder, said, quote, "There was no 12-hour heads up. If we announced it, it would have given authorities time to file a national security letter. We decided to destroy it before we were asked to turn (information) over. We had to do scorched earth." Ladar, your response?

LADAR LEVISON: I can certainly understand his position. If the government had learned that I was shutting my service down—can I say that?

JESSE BINNALL: Well, I think it’s best to kind of avoid that topic, unfortunately. But I think it is fair to say that Silent Circle was probably in a very different situation than Lavabit was, and which is probably why they took the steps that they did, which I think were admirable.

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah. But I will say that I don’t think I had a choice but to shut it down without notice. I felt that was my only option. And I’ll have to leave it to your listeners to understand why. But it’s important to note that, you know, Lavabit wasn’t the first service provider to receive a government request, and we’re not the first service provider to fight it. We’re just the first service provider to take a different approach. And it could very well be because of our size that we have that option. We’re wholly focused on secure email. Without it, we have no business. You take a much larger provider with a greater number of employees, and shutting down a major section of their company, when they have to answer to shareholders, may not be a viable option.

AMY GOODMAN: Why have you decided to speak out today, Ladar?

LADAR LEVISON: Because my biggest fear when I shut down the service was that no good would come of it. And I’m hoping that by speaking out, I can prompt, hopefully, Congress to act and change the laws that put me in this circumstance to begin with. I know that’s a little ironic, considering I can’t speak about the specific laws that put me in this position, but, you know, there’s a real need in this country to establish what the rights are of our cloud providers. And unless we take actions to ensure that, you know, we can continue to operate secure, private services, I think we’re going to lose a lot of business over the next few years. And I think all the major providers, not just Lavabit, have gone on record to say the same.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think people should use email?

LADAR LEVISON: Yeah, I think it’s a great way to communicate. I think we’re entering a world where we have any number of ways of communicating, from postal mail to Twitter, to text messaging, to Facebook, to instant messenger, to email, to telephone, to video chat. They all kind of blend together. They all sort of fit their own niche, their own purpose. And I think email still has a very important role to play in communication between people.

AMY GOODMAN: Should we just assume it’s all being read?

LADAR LEVISON: I think you should assume any communication that is electronic is being monitored.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re going to break and then come back to our discussion. And we’ll be joined by a service provider who did get a national security letter and is now able to talk about it. We’ve been speaking with Ladar Levison, Lavabit owner, who just shut down the—as a service provider, provided services to Edward Snowden; and Jesse Binnall, his lawyer. We’ll be back in a minute.

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http://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/13/exclusive_owner_of_snowdens_email_service

[Catherina]

1. Former Internet Provider Gagged by National Security Letter Recounts How He Was Silenced For 6 Years

This is the next part, "Former Internet Provider Gagged by National Security Letter Recounts How He Was Silenced For 6 Years"

(video featuring candidate Obama speaking about National Security Letters in 2005)

We continue our discussion of government surveillance and internet privacy with someone who was under an FBI gag order for six years. In early 2004, Nicholas Merrill, who was running an internet service provider in New York called Calyx, was issued a national security letter that ordered him to hand over detailed private records about some of his customers. Under the law, recipients of the letters are barred from telling anyone about their encounter with the FBI. While Merrill was not the first American to be gagged after receiving a national security letter, he was the first to challenge the FBI’s secret tactics. Merrill went to the American Civil Liberties Union, which then filed the first lawsuit challenging the national security letter statute. In the lawsuit, Merrill was simply identified as John Doe. It was only in August 2010, after reaching a settlement with the FBI, that Merrill was able to reveal his identity. &quot The case) resulted in the National Security Letter Provision of the PATRIOT Act being ruled unconstitutional twice," Merrill says. "The problem was, though, we were never able to get to the Supreme Court to get a final, binding ruling that would affect the whole country.... The concern about cybersecurity and the concerns about privacy are really two sides of the same coin. There are a lot of really uncontroversial examples in which organizations and people need confidentiality: Medicine is one, journalism is another, human rights organizations is an obvious third. We’re trying to make the case that if the right of Americans to encrypt their data and to have private information is taken away, that it’s going to have grave, far-reaching effects on many kinds of industries, on our democracy as a whole, and our standing in the world."

Please check back later for full transcript.


http://www.democracynow.org/2013/8/13/former_internet_provider_gagged_by_national


Related from DemocracyNow!: Gagged for 6 Years, Nick Merrill Speaks Out on Landmark Court Struggle Against FBI’s National Security Letters - August 11, 2010

For six years, the FBI has barred a New York man from revealing that the agency had ordered him to hand over personal information about clients of his internet start-up. Finally allowed to speak, Nick Merrill joins us in his first broadcast interview to talk about how he challenged the FBI’s use of national security letters. We also speak with Connecticut librarian George Christian. He and three other librarians also sued the US government after receiving a national security letter demanding information about library patrons. (includes rush transcript)

[Th1onein]

2. INFORMATIN THAT HE IS BARRED FROM SHARING EVEN WITH HIS ATTORNEY?

Jesus H. Christ! They aren't even making a PRETENSE of due process, are they?

[gvstn]

4. +1

[Catherina]

9. That jarred me too. Unbelievable. He estimates this fight will take him 10 years of his life

I can't believe what's happening in our country right now.

[snooper2]

12. you haven't read much about CALEA have you?

[Th1onein]

44. Trying to blame Bill Clinton for this now?

What does this have to do with CALEA?

Unless it's something other than this: http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/communications-assistance-law-enforcement-act

I don't know what you're getting at.

WHAT does that have to do with the lack of due process associated with not being able to consult your attorney about ANYTHING and EVERYTHING?

[Rex]

15. It's all about 'national security'

even if they have to kill people...it would all be hidden as 'national security'.

[woo me with science]

21. These actions cannot be defended.

The treatment of Laura Poitras and other journalists cannot be defended.

The Constitution is gone.

[Waiting For Everyman]

29. Agreed. That is some extraordinary bullshit there.

Even Nixon never went anywhere close to that.

200,000 National Security Letters have gone out to date, 97% of them with gag orders. We know nothing about them except for a few, because the rest are still gagged. There is no time limit to that without the court ending it, which takes going to court to get it.

And only needing an FBI agent's signature to launch one? OMGWTF. What if that authority is given to local sheriffs next?

[Aerows]

32. Holy Shit

You can't share it with your attorney? This has to be a joke.

[dkf]

3. Amy Goodman has the BEST interviews. I had no idea what a great resource she was prior...

Must see TV.

[Catherina]

10. She's a national treasure. Worth the entire MSM put together n/t

[bemildred]

5. Mr. Levison is correct.

The only sure way to keep things secret is to make sure they are not there to be found, and the matter could be taken from Mr. Levison's hands if he were to warn of his intent. So he has to decide between his duty to his customers to protect their data (after all, that's why he's in business) and his profits. Unlike most, he chose the former.

[bemildred]

7. PS: I expect that an attempt will be made to outlaw what Mr. Levison just did. nt

[Catherina]

11. +1. I read he's not out of the woods. He can still be charged with obstruction of justice

what a mockery that would be.

[bemildred]

13. Yep, something like that.

We are getting into ex post facto law here, but that's not at all new in the Empire of Bullshit. We already have bills of attainder and other sorts of royalist rot.

[dkf]

16. How is this not a dictatorship if you have no rights and no recourse?

I had no idea things were this bad where you can't speak to a lawyer about your entire case.

[bemildred]

19. We are an authoritarian state, not totalitarian, not a dictatorship, a "managed democracy".

Which is a euphemism for a propaganda state, as opposed to a democratic state which governs based on the wishes of a well-informed and engaged electorate.

Poorly led, and poorly governed, it's been all downhill in terms of ou\r global stature ever since WWII, with the exception of the Kennedy-Johnson years when a few positive things were done in the midst of another big, stupid war.

Some of our "leaders" think that we are still insecure, that being the sole superpower and largest economy in the world etc. also apparently still leaves us the most insecure state in the world too, or something. But the reality is that trying to make sense of all this War on Terror bullshit is a waste of time, BECAUSE it is bullshit, and it does not make sense.

Empire destroys, it destroyed the USSR and it's destroying us right now.

[xiamiam]

45. you can see how unbelievably pissed he is at the entire mess

the transcript is good but the anger he exhibits is what we should all be feeling... for him and for us. He just forfeited ten years of his work and his company to protect the privacy of his customers..from the government no less. Stuck between a rock and a hard place no doubt...is this America or not? cant even tell his lawyer some things? wtf?

Its definitely not what this young man believed about the constitution before this fiasco. Its tough to watch his anger and you just know its justified. Young men and women who are caught in this illegal surveillance state and know its wrong and about to ruin lives will join the leaders of the charge to reign it in.. What do progressives, ron paul libertarians, conservatives, tea partiers, free the internet and young folks, scholars, socialists, medical professionals, and others have in common? We all hate the surveillance state which America has become.

[dickthegrouch]

17. The attempt to outlaw what he did already exists

It's called spoliation of evidence, but, so far, it can only apply after one has been made aware that there is evidence that could be demanded. If no such demand for preservation has been made, and there is no known action that might cause it to be demanded, no spoliation can occur.

I would imagine that more secret laws can be written which make it a crime to destroy anything that might conceivably be requested from the instant of its creation. And at that stage even throwing the trash out from your kitchen becomes a crime.

The secret courts and secret laws seem to want to make criminals of all of us. Then they "they" always have leverage on us when ever they need us to comply. It's usually called blackmail and I consider that whoever told Ladar he couldn't talk about this, even with his attorney, is guilty of said blackmail. That kind of secrecy has no place in an "Open Government", "Democratic", Nation of laws", presided over by a "Constitutional Scholar".

If failure to provide effective counsel is grounds for appeal, the government depriving a citizen of any counsel is an inherent grounds for vacating any conviction.

[bemildred]

22. I agree. I expect more laws because this is show business, not law,

and the object is for the congressperson to be seen "doing something about X", not to actually do anything.

[PowerToThePeople]

24. big REC.

It is nothing new though. The few have always used threat of force on the many. How could plutocracy, oligarchy, or totalitarianism exist otherwise?

This is a (the?) root issue with society.

edit - and the many on the few. witch trials, southern kkk, Andrew Sheppard.

[Purveyor]

27. There are already laws on the books that require businesses to retain business records for varying

numbers of years depending on the topic.

Search on 'document retention and destruction' for all the references you can handle.

[bemildred]

31. Right, but now your ISP can delete your emails as soon as you drop service.

Or is it that you are just denied access to your own emails after that? Or maybe that you don't OWN your own emails, which I think leads to the first question that must be asked: Do you own your own emails or not? And how does that work, if you do? What, exactly, do you own? Is it literature or personal property?

[Purveyor]

33. I'm not sure how record retention policies apply to a email service provider. I'm been out of

the records management industry for about 15 years and much has changed since those days.

[bemildred]

35. Me either, but I think these questions are now being forced into the discussion.

Who owns all that crap the NSA is collecting? Does anybody own it? What sort of ownership is it?

[PowerToThePeople]

6. LADAR LEVISON: I think you should assume any communication that is electronic is being monitored.

There it is.

[dickthegrouch]

18. I take issue with *is*

Those communications certainly could be monitored or at least matrix-graphed. But the billions of e-mails and voice, and IM, and video chats per day cannot all *be* monitored.

[PowerToThePeople]

20. what the definition of is is?

Come on now.

He said, "I think you should assume any communication that is electronic is being monitored." That means all communications could be monitored and you do not know when or if they will be. Since we have no way of knowing, you must assume ALL communications are monitored ALL the time if you are going to devise effective countermeasures.

[SeattleVet]

28. Always treat email as you would a postcard.

Assume that it is not secure, given the random path of servers it has to take to get to where it's going. It can be looked at in any number of places along the way. Don't put anything in an email that you wouldn't put on the back of a postcard.

[PowerToThePeople]

30. More than email. ANY thing digitally transmitted. n/t

It can be secured. It is not to hard to do. A simple spokesperson to educate the public on securing electronic communications is all it would take. A "Nancy Reagan style don't do drugs" spokesperson for the Internet age. Push people and companies to secure everything. It can be done. It should be done. Someone in another thread on NSA surveillance brought up a red-herring about Russia and China. If NSA can do it, they probably can to. I believe the person was correct (it just was not an issue in the NSA discussion). We should be looking after our data better. We can look after our data better.


---------------------------------------------
4th Amendment for the 21st century

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, digital footprint, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

digital footprint being any data of any form which is capable of being associated with a specific citizen.

[Agony]

8. +2^12

[Aerows]

39. +2^24 n/t

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. k&r

[MjolnirTime]

23. Publicity stunt to launch new email service.

How many attention whores will Snowden spawn?

I'm not surprised Pacifica radio just had to slash its staff.

Anti-Democratic Party Now has become unlistenable.

[Pholus]

26. Huh. So Amy Goodman is now a shill? Bwahahahaha!

It's just sad that she is starting to have interviews that are echoing those from the BFEE administration.

[Aerows]

38. You are discussing physics with someone

that doesn't believe that gravity exists, or at least will try to explain to you why gravity doesn't exist.

[Pholus]

40. I know. I know. But actually I was just trying out the new signature line! :)

I remember thinking that guy was just the right cure for all that nasty crap Bush was doing.

[Aerows]

36. Are you going to be the first to explain to me

how email works, or are you going to do DNS administration this time? Want to describe router administration, or are you demoted to explaining fiber optics today?

[Savannahmann]

25. OK, someone get the apologists who can explain how we aren't really spying on the American People.

I need them to remind me, because I keep forgetting.

[Aerows]

34. I'm waiting for the apologists

to describe how *NO* one on DU understands email, DNS administration and switches.

I'm sitting here waiting for their descriptions of how it all really works. :crosses arms:

I've heard it before, I have no doubt I'll hear it again. Proceed, Governor.

[Waiting For Everyman]

37. Why can't we do security the way we used to? I still don't see the need for this

just because we are now in a digital age, and the capability exists. So what?

If the Feds think they need all these special legal exceptions just to deal with a small number of AQ, it really makes me wonder how we got through WW2 without knowing everything about everybody. How was it possible to conduct any war in history, then? Surely war and criminal policing must've been impossible up until now.

I still see nothing that shows me why anti-terrorism and its criminal equivalent can't be done the old fasioned way, with specific warrants, in the usual courts. Intel builds these secret systems, and then uses that as the reason for classifying everything about it, and in turn uses that classification as the reason why it has to be done through special secret courts with a secret body of law that no one can monitor or appeal.

This is a total load of hooey. I can't believe anyone is taking any of these intel arguments seriously.

[Pholus]

41. It was a really good powerpoint sales pitch I figure...

Everyone wants to be the awesome and handsome agent sitting in that cool blue-lit cyber-command center with floor-to-ceiling monitors and computers everywhere.

[Waiting For Everyman]

42. You know, that is probably close to the truth of it.

And that is so sad.

That, and the money payoffs.

[BlueStreak]

43. This is really chilling. Very hard to recognize this as America at this stage.

[WillyT]

46. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!