Looks like the Oprah racism story was bullshit after all

[Dreamer Tatum]

[link:http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/13/oprah-switzerland-purse-story-apology-racism/?adid=hero3|

Yeah, it's TMZ, but it quotes her directly.

[Bay Boy]

1. Hmmm....?

[Enrique]

2. sounds like a misunderstanding

TMZ calls it bullshit but it sounds to me like a misunderstanding

http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/13/oprah-switzerland-purse-story-apology-racism/

Last night, Oprah said ... "I think that incident in Switzerland was just an incident in Switzerland. I'm really sorry that it got blown up. I purposefully did not mention the name of the store. I'm sorry that I said it was Switzerland."

[NightWatcher]

5. O's mad because the story made her look like a spoiled rich person who didn't get her $38K purse

She came across more like Veruca Salt and less like Rosa Parks (which is what she was going for)

[Enrique]

7. are we sure she was going for that?

maybe she was just telling someone about something that happened to her. Maybe she thought it was racism and she was wrong. Big deal, so Oprah was wrong. And now she's apologizing, which is what people do when they're wrong.

[Union Scribe]

3. Hermes redux. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

6. This seems to confirm her story.. did you read it?

http://www.tmz.com/2013/08/13/oprah-switzerland-purse-story-apology-racism/

^snip^

The shop owner says the whole thing was a "misunderstanding" and had "nothing to do with racism."






So the shop owner confirms that this did happen. Now we are down to believing the owner who says it wasn't racism and Oprah who was under the impression that it was.


How can anyone call bull shit on this? Clearly, it happened as she said it did. Is there some other reason she was not allowed to see the item worth 38K? If so I would like to hear it.

[Dreamer Tatum]

8. Ummmmm...she regrets saying WHAT COUNTRY IT HAPPENED IN.

If she was truly a victim of racism, she'd be licking her lips over all the extra publicity she'd be getting.

So yeah...let's file it under bullshit.

[Motown_Johnny]

14. Then why does the shop owner say it happened?

And the idea that she needs extra publicity is laughable.

[kwassa]

46. You quote an opinion piece on TMZ as meaningful? You have nothing to support you.

The shop clerk says that what Oprah said was untrue, but has not said HOW it was untrue.

The shop owner said it was a misunderstanding, but has not clarified in any way what the nature of the misunderstanding was.

Oprah stated her perception of what went down. It is up to the other two to present their side in a more coherent explanation if they are to be believed at all.

[muriel_volestrangler]

58. Because she doesn't want to give the impression it's a general Swiss attitude

and it's fair enough for her to clarify that. If you mean "any criticism of Switzerland for it is bullshit", then that would also be fair, given what she has said.

But "file it under bullshit" makes you sound like you think it never happened. That's the trouble with the phrase "it's bullshit". You might mean "one aspect has been blown up out of proportion", but you can sound like you're saying "it's all a complete lie".

[LanternWaste]

79. I imagine it will be filed under whatever category best suits and validates

I imagine it will be filed under whatever category best suits and validates your own opinions, all others be damned.

And of course, that file will be given all the consideration it indeed, warrants.

[proud2BlibKansan]

87. She enjoys pointing out racism??

What makes you think so?

[WCLinolVir]

102. Why do I get a stench of misogyny and racism from your posts?

[Scootaloo]

126. "She'd be licking her lips over all the extra publicity she'd be getting."

You know, there was a time where I'd be surprised to see someone pushing hte "racism is a scheme" argument like this on DU. There was a time where I would have been surprised to see it brazenly posted. And then, when i'd have been surprised to see it left standing.

Nowadays I'm starting to get surprised that the logo hasn't just changed to Dixiecrat Underground, already.

[JI7]

9. yeah, i don't see how what is in the OP changes anything

[joeybee12]

10. Because in places like that a shopkeeper probably says that to lots of people...

regardless of race...they're supposed to be snooty...and at $38K, if the shopkeeper didn't know who she was, she certainly would say something like that.

If Halle Berry had gone in and had a similar experience, I'd say racism, but not Oprah "I'm the only person on this planet who matters" Winfrey. She so full of shit.

[Motown_Johnny]

15. So it happened, Maybe it was racism and maybe it wasn't

That doesn't make the story bull shit. The story is clearly true. Maybe her impression is wrong and maybe the shop owner is lying. We will never know.

[joeybee12]

18. No, Orpah's story is not clearly true, and no, it's not necessarily bullshit...

Something happened, something either the shop clerk said or Oprah took the wrong way...it's simply a matter of persepctive...but Oprah has a history of thinking she's queen...when Hermes was closed, and she showed up after-hours, she threw a fit...had the owner come on her show and apologize...I really can't stand Oprah, in case you didn't notice!

[PCIntern]

31. +1. Nt

[jberryhill]

13. There can be a lot of reasons

First of all, Zurich is a very cosmopolitan town. They are quite used to extremely wealthy people in all colors. While Switzerland has its share of hillbillies, the larger cities are home to bankers, diplomats and tax avoiders of every stripe and creed.

However, it is not as if it is the Cayman Islands or other places where, yes, you will run into a billionaire in flip flops and a t-shirt, and it isn't that unusual for persons so dressed to be looking at, say, a $25,000 watch. Even in LA and NYC, it is pretty common for extremely wealthy people to dress as if they are going to the gym.

If she was casually dressed and not wearing either clothing or jewelry suggesting her wealth, then the shopkeeper may have simply misjudged her wealth.

The notion that they would not have wanted to separate her from $38,000 because of her skin color is silly, and it is especially silly in a high-end shopping area where they get very wealthy people from around the world.

But, if they size you up and figure you are a tourist, then, no, they aren't going to let tourists handle that merchandise, regardless of their skin color.

[Motown_Johnny]

16. I lived in and around Vail CO. for ~12 years. I know rich tourists.

You are nuts.


People don't do that. The idea that you can't see an item because of how you are dressed is insane. It doesn't happen.


The story is true. It was confirmed by the shop owner. Now maybe it was racism and maybe it wasn't, we won't ever know for sure but the incident happened as described.

[jberryhill]

21. Yeah... Vail is a RESORT town

That's the point. I'm going to guess you haven't spent a lot of time in Zurich, or Geneva for that matter, but your approach to a conversation - "You are nuts." - is a good enough reason to say goodbye.

If you think there are no wealthy people of Middle Eastern background or African background in Zurich, then you clearly have not considered the differences between a largely white ski resort and a center of international banking.

[Phentex]

24. I think what you wrote makes sense...

we don't really know why they didn't let her look at the purse. The point is they didn't. And I think if I were Oprah, I would find that annoying in the ironic sort of way. I am not certain I would jump to racism. But I do think she has experienced racism and it is possible this was indeed racist.

[WCLinolVir]

108. Not a question of wealth, but even the help has problems with prejudice, envy, and resentment.

They are human after all. And I am sure some of them are happy to "level the playing field" with their attitude. Especially if they think it won't come back to haunt them.

[KarKar]

29. LOL we used to call it VILE

I honestly heard somebody in Aspen yell at a group of tourists, "Go back to Vail!" Rich elitist jerk.

[pnwmom]

41. Actually, it does happen. It's happened to me.

This was in the early 70's when people didn't dress as casually as they do now; and I had a mother who wouldn't let us out of the house if she didn't approve of how we looked. So I know we looked fine when we walked into the shoe store at the mall. But when Mom said we wanted to try on boots, the clerk told Mom the boots were probably too expensive. Mom insisted on trying them anyway, and they weren't any more expensive that what we usually paid. I don't remember if we bought them or not. I hope we didn't.

And then in the early 80's my husband and I went into a store with art posters and prints in downtown Seattle. The man there informed us that we wouldn't be able to afford what they had. Seattle is full of computer geeks and hippies with money, but out of all the people there, they decided we wouldn't be able to afford their prices. I do remember what we did next. We just walked out of the store and spent our money somewhere else.

[gollygee]

22. It isn't a notion that they "wouldn't want to separate her from $38k because of her skin color"

The issue is that shop people often make assumptions about people of color, such as that they of COURSE couldn't afford something.

[jberryhill]

23. Not in Zurich they don't

Translating from a suburban US shopping mall to an upscale shopping district in Zurich, doesn't work very well.

[gollygee]

25. She said she feels she was wrong in this case

but you misstated what she thought. It isn't "silly" to think would be racism.

[jberryhill]

27. Are you quoting the word "silly" from me?

I said there "can be" other reasons.

I called no one silly, and no idea silly. Specifically tell me where I "misstated what she thought". I have no idea what she thought.

Wealthy people in the US, and at some resort areas elsewhere, dress like they are about to do yardwork.

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. She was dressed in Donna Karan, so well beyond flip-flops and a t shirt

though not with ultra-expensive jewellery on. However, you shouldn't have to be flashing diamonds to be able to look at expensive merchandise; saying "it's $38,000, are you sure?" is fine, but if the customer then says "yes", then a shop should do it.

'Tourists' (ie non-residents) in smart clothes (eg Donna Karan) should be a major part of their market. I think it's fair to think the assistant thought "she doesn't look like she can afford it", and that was, perhaps unconsciously, because of skin colour. Because of the ultra-rich, very few are black.

[iemitsu]

28. You're right, the Oprah incident happened

and it was racist for the shop clerk to assume she couldn't afford a purse.
Oprah has been pressured or paid to put a stop to the flack.
The EU, the tourist industry, or maybe just those with the power to decide who is among them, don't want prominent black individuals to rile up the rabble.
Oprah has been put in her place again.
What a shitty world we live in.

[KarKar]

30. Yeah right... a billionaire put in her place.

and one of the most power people on the planet, but shes a victim.

[iemitsu]

36. We are all victims of a global, social order,

that won't allow those, at the top, to undermine that order. Not if they want to remain favored members of that set.
Oprah was not wrong about the store clerk's meaning, when she suggested that Oprah could not afford the purse. Any person of color knows that. Its easy to spot. Some people of color might level the claim of racism unjustly, but I don't believe Oprah had any motive for doing that.
So what made her attempt to squelch the story?
Perhaps, the appearance of a powerful person taking a simple clerk to task is bad PR? Yet the public cannot identify the shop or the clerk (so personal vendetta seems unlikely). Though there certainly are, and were, DUers, who are prepared to support the "Oprah is mean spirited" theory.
Perhaps the clerk's apology and her insistence, that her advice was not forthcoming as a result of Oprah looks, but motivated by some other factor, struck a chord with Oprah, and convinced her that what seemed to be racist at the time, in hindsight was really something else. I don't know.
But what Oprah said was she wished she had not even identified the country that the incident happened in, suggesting that the Swiss, or someone on their behalf, encouraged Oprah to recant her story.
She did not say the incident did not happen and the store confirmed that it did. She left open the possibility of a misunderstanding but she did not say she was wrong or fabricating the event.
That is the equivalent of saying "uncle" when your arm is being twisted.
I don't know why Oprah's soft recantation fills so many on DU with glee. It makes the place smell like a Swiss purse shop.

[TBF]

60. This --

"We are all victims of a global, social order, that won't allow those, at the top, to undermine that order. Not if they want to remain favored members of that set."

You nailed it.

[iemitsu]

82. Well, I think so, yet, I anticipated

criticism, on this thread, not support.
Thank you for sharing, what I would identify as, your astute analytical skills.
Whether or not one "likes" Oprah, this episode serves to remind us all, that more things seem to change, the more they stay the same.
No matter what wealth and fame she achieves, Oprah cannot buy white privilege. The top of the negro heap is still below the bottom of the white heap.
We can see this reality too, in the way that many treat the president.

[TBF]

93. As a communist I meet others who only focus on class -

and I understand that focus as they are often white males. If you are female (as I am) or not white (or worse - female and not white) then there are other issues as well that are very hard to ignore. I have other arguments with the president (mostly because I hate capitalism and right now his job is to keep it going) but he has been an excellent leader on the civil rights front. First bill signed - Lily Ledbetter Act and has made an effort on LGBTQ rights as well. That is something that is worth acknowledging.

I like to think I can walk and chew gum at the same time.

[iemitsu]

95. :) I wish I could walk and chew gum at the same time.

I agree with you about the president, and capitalism.

[dkf]

50. Wouldn't most people not want to look at the $36,000 purse if told that was the cost?

The sales lady says she showed another bag that was basically the same and offered it as a less expensive choice, then asked if Oprah still wanted to see the bag, but she said no.

I've gone in high end stores before...I would be appalled to grab a bag and then realize I was holding such a ridiculously expensive purse. What if you scratch the darn thing?

Normal people would be happy to get that piece of advice, at least I would.

[DJ13]

11. New movie coming out, with racism as the plot

Nope, I didnt see this coming.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

40. Like Tom Cruise happening upon people...

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 10:17 AM - Edit history (1)

who need to be rescued. And Superman and Penny dating. And...

I love Forest Whitaker but can't stand Oprah. Guess I'll Netflix the movie.

[reformist2]

65. Exactly. Once you see the pattern, you never look at celeb "news" the same again.

It's all just free publicity for their upcoming movie, book, TV show, etc...

[In_The_Wind]

91. uh huh

[AndyA]

12. Perhaps Oprah is just a jerk to associates in retail stores?

She was unhappy with Hermes in Paris when they wouldn't let her in when she showed up 15 minutes after the store had closed. All the employees were busy preparing for a private function that night, and she thought there were other customers in the store and got mad because they wouldn't let her in.

Now we have this story about the handbag in Zurich.

Maybe Oprah is just not the same in person as she appears to be on TV? Wouldn't be the first time.

Years ago, I worked in retail and got a call from someone who worked for a big sports star. The request was that we open the store after hours so this person could come in and shop without anyone else in the store. The request included several employees to assist.

There were several reasons why we couldn't accommodate the request, one being a major system update was being sent to the store computer that night due to problems earlier in the week. I think they were reloading the entire programming, and it was going to take a while to get it done and test to make sure it was working properly. The store needed to be closed and offline for this to happen.

When I told them we were sorry, but we wouldn't be able to accommodate their request, the person became very rude and argumentative. Lots of "You DO understand WHO this is, don't you?" "Everyone working in the store will be thrilled to meet so and so..." etc.

After they were advised nicely that we simply could not do it, they became even nastier and got quite upset, as if we were personally being disrespectful somehow.

Later, I caught the idiot on TV and realized I was indeed talking to "THE" celebrity, not an assistant as I recognized the voice. After that, I was VERY GLAD we didn't open for them as they were really quite unpleasant, very much different than the persona on TV.

I haven't heard anything about Oprah one way or the other, so I don't know.

[quinnox]

19. I think it is possible Oprah's billions have gone to her head

She probably lives in a bubble where she is waited on hand and foot. Maybe she is not used to any sort of disobedience to her demands.

[kwassa]

47. So, you create an imaginary scenario about what you think she might be like.

Without any facts.

How useful.

[AndyA]

73. At least I shared a personal story

Which makes my post more useful than yours.

[kwassa]

112. But not a personal story about Oprah.

Which makes your analysis imaginary, too.

[AndyA]

114. It was a similar situation about another "celebrity"

Your post...still...zip.

[kwassa]

118. You have no new factual information about what took place in the store.

You only extrapolate from an unrelated incident that you witnessed with a celebrity that has no connection to either Oprah or this incident.

As there is no connection, your experience has no bearing on what actually happened with Oprah in the Swiss store.

Speaking of zip.

[Auntie Bush]

38. Who was this celebrity?

[Blaspherian]

17. Oprah was hot

in The Color Purple, went downhill since.

[kwassa]

48. Most of us do. That movie is from 27 years ago.

[mythology]

52. Not me

I'm still just as homely as I was 27 years ago.

[AZ Progressive]

20. Many Celebrities have Egos the size of the Moon

They even more than the average asshole think they are the center of the universe.

[uponit7771]

26. looks like the OP title is bullshit after all Oprah story confirmed by shopkeeper

[LittleBlue]

32. I've read conflicting stories

The shop owner apologized, but I'm not sure if he/she was even there. He may have apologized merely because she's Oprah.

The person who was actually involved said it didn't happen that way, denied being racist. Then again...

You see where this is going. It's a she said, she said type situation and no one will ever know the truth of it.

[snooper2]

74. The owner of the Shop was at the same exact wedding as Oprah

You would think if it was such a big fucking deal maybe Oprah would have said something to her there-


Oh wait-

She has a new movie coming out and she didn't "REALLY" want to make this a big deal....

Right-

[limpyhobbler]

33. If you get bad customer service you should always assume it's racism.

Helps keep you on your toes.

[markiv]

34. store video of the incident

[mstinamotorcity2]

35. The incident happened.

The shop owner confirmed it. The shop was never mentioned by name. Even though her celebrity status forces a Google earth search. It ridiculous for anyone to judge the moment but the two people who were in the room and in the exchange. but before people go getting their drawers in a snit, please understand, Most black people know when they are being treated in an unfair or racist way. most people don't get what she was saying in the sound bite anyway. But people who have been mis-judged as some deem the term want to know why are they being mis-judged. Whatever would lead them to mis-judgment?? Could it be their mind is already made up?? I think so.

[burnodo]

37. Details?

[WorseBeforeBetter]

39. Swiss store owner at center of Oprah's 'racist' handbag storm demands to speak to star after...

says 'sorry for the fuss'

....

The owner of the upscale Swiss boutique where Oprah Winfrey claimed she was barred from buying a $38,000 by a ‘racist’ sales assistant today demanded to speak to the star she branded 'over-sensitive' and insisted her employee did ‘everything right’.

The rather fearsome-looking Trudi Goetz said she wanted to speak with the talk show billionairess ‘as soon as possible’ and also revealed her petrified member of staff will not be sacked or punished.

She said: ‘I don't know why she talked of racism. I am sorry, but perhaps she is being a little over-sensitive here. Maybe she was somewhat offended because she was not immediately recognized in the store.'

....

And in a possible slap to Oprah's diva tendencies, she added: ‘That is something that international stars appreciate in our country - that you leave them in peace.’

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2391880/Oprahs-racist-handbag-Swiss-store-owner-brands-star-sensitive.html#ixzz2btuzvXu9

Never cared for Oprah. Still don't.

[Generic Other]

42. The question of whether it was or was not about race

can only be addressed if we step inside the mind of the clerk. But once again like so many times when such an accusation is raised, the hue and cry against the victim is the loudest, with cries for hard proof of racist intent and evidence that could stand up in court, and these voices drown out the one logical conclusion. That is exactly how it went down in the Trayvon Martin case. We pretty much all conclude Martin was profiled and killed. The court says otherwise. Yet whose opinion was changed? Not mine.

I know that where race is part of the accusation, this is how it often plays out. The victim is forced to accept that her "perception" is wrong because she can't prove otherwise. Only the clerk. Only Zimmerman know the truth. Ambiguity is when something could have more than one interpretation. Clearly, Oprah has chosen to accept this explanation. But the truth is that in her heart she can never know, can she?

[pipi_k]

43. Whatever happened

Or whatever she thought happened, she could have handled it better than the way she did. She could have spoken privately with the owner of the shop...or with the clerk and the owner together

But no...she chose to accuse someone of a vile thing which could have cost that person her job

She chose to make herself a victim of something which may not have been in the clerk's mind at all

I never had a problem with her before. Now I do

[kwassa]

45. Oprah didn't name the store, other people tracked it down.

She didn't name the clerk, or owner, either.

I still haven't seen the clerk's name. The owner chose to speak publicly, but her explanation makes no sense, actually, as to the misunderstanding.

[HipChick]

44. It happens everday to black people..

I guess you just don't hear about it, because they are not famous

[R B Garr]

49. Yes, I'm sure it does, and you can't tell me that store clerk didn't size her up

based on how she looked alone no matter what the language barrier. I would also bet that Oprah enjoys many moments of not being recognized by people. Most celebrities relish their private times, and I'm sure Oprah is no different, so not being recognized doesn't seem like it would have been a problem for Oprah. Now, being told she can't afford something when she's one of the richest women in the world, come on!

I still recall an incident that happened when I was traveling with a black woman who was technically my boss, but I was a contract worker, so I was just reporting to her about work I completed independently. Anyway, we were on a 3-hour road trip to a business meeting, and she got hungry early and wanted some fast food. I wasn't that hungry, and didn't really want the fast food, so I was nonplussed about ordering anything. She definitely wanted a hamburger. So, we pulled into a fast food joint (I forget which one now), and went to the counter to order. What happened next just infuriated me, and I could tell she was angry, too, but we never really talked about it because it was so awkward and uncomfortable.

My quasi-boss was shorter than I am. I'm fairly tall and white. That's as far as I could go in giving the benifit of the doubt to the cashiers there, because they kept looking up at me and deferring to me even though I made it clear a couple times: she's ready to order (my boss). Take her order; I wasn't ready to order. It all happened so fast, and I wound up shuffling back from the counter because they kept looking up to me and deferring to me while my boss just stood there and stewed. I couldn't help but feel that because I was white, they were going to wait on me first, no matter. I know she noticed it, too, because she started getting angry. That was one time I felt it so strongly for myself how it felt to be treated in such a dismissive manner. The workers were very young, and I don't think it was intentional or mean-spirited on their part, but it still happened and it was very noticeable.

[iemitsu]

94. This sort of sceneario happens everyday.

My folks used to have a place on the ocean, near several small beach communities, and my wife and our family would spend a week or two there each summer.
My beautiful wife has mixed ancestry and to the rural townsfolk, who worked in the retail establishments, she was either invisible or a second class individual, who had to wait until all white people were served, before she got her place at the front of the line.
Sure there are many reasons a customer might be overlooked and inadvertently not served in the order, in which they arrived in the store. Its happened to me numerous times, and is not a big deal.
But when it happens every time one enters a store, or it happens in every store in the community, it is hard to dismiss as inadvertent.
Eventually, we stopped spending much time there.
My family pressured us to attend reunions there and several members insisted we were wrong about the store-keepers intent, when choosing to serve my wife last.
We went round and round, my family needed proof that my wife was being treated unfairly, before they could accept that the little beach community had the power to ruin our vacation.
Eventually, the proof materialized, when numerous members of my family (who had arrived in different cars and at slightly different moments) were in one of these stores together. A crowded store where almost everyone was in the family. We all had our purchases and stood in line, and to the surprise of everyone but my wife and I, she was overlooked and all others were served before she. Even when some of my siblings informed the clerk that my wife was in line before them.
After getting back to the beach house, the group finally acknowledged that what we had seen all along, was really happening.
As a result of that incident, my folks sold the place and we have not been pressured to attend events, in places like that, since.
It is eye opening to be with someone, who is being treated unfairly because of their ethnicity. And when it happens it is very obvious what is going on.

[Electric Monk]

51. I find it interesting that it's so important to you for the story to not be true. Hmm.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/arts/story/2013/08/13/oprah-switzerland-butler-opening.html

"I'm in a store and the person doesn't obviously know that I carry the black card and so they make an assessment based upon the way I look and who I am," said Winfrey, who earned $77 million in the year ending in June, according to Forbes magazine.

"I didn't have anything that said 'I have money.' I wasn't wearing a diamond stud. I didn't have a pocketbook. I didn't wear Louboutin shoes. I didn't have anything," said Winfrey on the red carpet. "You should be able to go in a store looking like whatever you look like and say, 'I'd like to see this.' That didn't happen."

Swiss tourism officials and the boutique owner apologized for the incident last week, but Winfrey insists there's no need. "It's not an indictment against the country or even that store," she continued.

"It was just one person who didn't want to offer me the opportunity to see the bag. So no apologies necessary from the country of Switzerland. If somebody makes a mistake in the United States do we apologize in front of the whole country? No!"

[HipChick]

53. I sure people of color experience more racism in the US on a daily basis..

[uponit7771]

68. Yeap, but US is one of the more racially tolerant countries on the planet

[FloridaJudy]

54. It might well have been because she's American, not because she's black

I've been in few snooty European stores, and their favorite sport is mocking the tourists. To be fair, some of us are ill-behaved and offensively dressed, but I try to meet local standards. I've had my accent publicly criticized and told I had "deformed American feet".

I avoid those places like a case of lice now.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. No, no....that's not possible

Rude European waiters and shopkeepers is an invented ugly American stereotype....it's just not true.

They are, however all horrible, horrible racists. That's totally believable.

[muriel_volestrangler]

63. Unlikely for somewhere so expensive, though

At those prices, you're selling to the international 'jet set' in any city. Swiss-only custom, or European-only, wouldn't let them survive.

[dipsydoodle]

99. "You're awful but I like you" comes to mind.

[WCLinolVir]

111. A lot of shops are selling to repeat buyers, wealthy ones.

Not the tourist trade really. The wealthy ones who have a trove of accessories.

[BainsBane]

55. Denying racism is essential to maintaining white privilege

Excusing it away and diminishing it is exactly what allows racism to thrive.

[Violet_Crumble]

62. I agree that it is, but in this case it doesn't look like it was racism...

In stores that flog handbags worth thousands of dollars, the discrimination is based on whether they think someone's wealthy or not. If you turn up not wearing expensive gear and dripping diamonds, they're going to want you to vanish. That's if you even get in the door. This has gone on for ages, and the only reason it's being made a big deal of now is because it's Oprah...

[WorseBeforeBetter]

66. I've been treated like crap in a couple of upscale upholstery shops...

one near DC and one in Raleigh, and I'm a lily-white woman. Granted, I was dressed in weekend-errand-slobwear, but my $$$$ is just as green as that of the well-dressed customer. I ended up having a bunch of pieces reupholstered at family-run shops, one Asian and the other African-American, and I let the other stores know. I'm sure they didn't care.

[uponit7771]

70. The subjective evaluation CAN NOT include color of someones skin?! The fact that the

... evaluation of whether the person can purchase or not is subjective opens the door and that's bad enough

[Nuclear Unicorn]

67. Tell us about your racist feelings.

[BainsBane]

75. All of us who are white are imbued with racism because we grow up in a racist culture

The issue is whether we examine those messages and try to overcome them.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

83. You cast a broad net to excuse your own failings. You hide among the herd.

Tell us about how you have discriminated against non-whites.

[BainsBane]

85. So you are saying that you have not picked up any racist messages?

Really? All the television shows and news coverage over the years haven't affected you in anyway? I'm the only one who is a product of the culture I live in? I might disclose some of the ways I've confronted racism in myself in a less hostile environment and to someone who actually cared about the issue, but you obvious work hard to deny it.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

89. I keep seeing you write about others. How come never about yourself?

Is your racism so vile you're dare not admit it on a Progressive board?

[uponit7771]

69. +1

[BainsBane]

57. What she said is she didn't want it to become a big deal, not that it didn't happen.

[uponit7771]

71. +1

[RZM]

72. I'm not so sure

Obviously something happened. But the notion that Oprah didn't want it to be a big deal rings a little hollow.

Oprah is not new to the game by any stretch of the imagination. She has been in the public eye for decades and is quite adept at managing her brand.

She knows that if she speaks, people will listen. And if she speaks about a personal experience of racism, people will listen attentively and talk about it, which is exactly what is happening. If she was really trying to avoid a big deal, she wouldn't have uttered a peep. She knows full well that anything she says will travel far and wide.

And remember that she does have a new movie coming out and a central theme of this movie is racism. This incident will pique interest in the film and reviewers can now say . . . 'The themes in The Butler are especially salient, given Oprah's personal brush with racism just this past summer . . .' etc. All of that means greater exposure and possibly increased box office receipts.

I don't think this was a staged stunt or anything like that. But I do wonder if after it happened, she realized she might be able to leverage it into a bigger buzz for her upcoming film. You don't build a multi-billion dollar brand without knowing a thing or two about how the game is played.

[morningfog]

59. You have exposed yourself, again, in this thread.

Disgusting.

[RetroLounge]

64. Yawn...

and then getting locked out of your own thread...



RL

[Rex]

104. Obvious trolling is too obvious.

I'm surprised the OP is still a member of DU.

[RetroLounge]

125. Give it time. Their ranks are shrinking.

RL

[otohara]

76. Where's The Quote?

I had an unfortunate experience at Red Rocks a couple weeks ago - I am disabled.
It's funny how different people reacted to the story when I told them especially my doctor who has gone all
teabagger in the past few years.

[SummerSnow]

77. I can see the movie..

Oprah vs Switzerland

[RZM]

80. I'm picturing a zany comedy

'The Helvetian Handbag Hullabaloo.'

Starring Tyler Perry as Oprah.

[SummerSnow]

81. rofl

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

78. I wonder why it is so difficult for white people to understand that racism happens to us

regardless of education or income?

When a black man is wearing a nice suit and is walking down the street but can't hail a cab or a white person clutches their stuff, that is racism even though the guy is well dressed, educated, and makes a lot of money.

When a black woman is followed throughout the store or has her afro searched because she "may have hidden drugs in her hair," that's racism. It doesn't matter if she has a Ph.D. in biochemistry.

What is it going to take for white people in this society to wake up? I mean, really?

So because Oprah is practically a billionnaire, she can't experience racism???? What kind of bullshit is that?

And who are you or ANY white person to dictate what is and what is not racism? YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT!!!!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

84. ^^THIS^^

[RZM]

90. You bring up valid points, but they aren't all that applicable in this specific case

Oprah didn't get followed through the store or have her hair searched for drugs. She was apparently denied the opportunity to examine a very expensive luxury item up close.

Was it a racist slight? Quite possibly. Was it a severe enough slight that will cause a regular person to have sympathy with somebody whose net worth is 2.9 billion dollars? Not so much. I don't think people are saying Oprah shouldn't make a big deal about it because she's black and should learn her place. They are saying she shouldn't make a big deal about it because she has 2.9 billion freaking dollars and won't have too much trouble finding another shop that is more than happy to show her whatever bag she likes.

It's the wrong example to expect people to get worked up about. If Oprah were assaulted by the police for no reason that would be one thing. But denied inspection of a 38K handbag behind a glass case? It's like if Jay-Z were intentionally served inferior foie gras at a five-star joint. Should it happen? No. Would I feel sorry for him? Not really.

Remember that Chris Rock line . . . 'Sometimes people with the least shit get to say the most shit and people with the most shit get to say the least shit.'

Also there's not a lot of love for the super-rich here at DU, no matter what their skin color.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

96. I really don't care how much money Oprah makes. I understand the

argument about her feelings of self-entitlement. I get it. There are times when some blacks who have done well for themselves forget that they have black skin; therefore, when they face racism, it smacks them in the face. And then they realize how relevant skin color is, yes, even in European countries. Their status should not excuse the racism they experience. Why would we excuse this kind of hatred?

DU is no better than the larger community if we believe that wealthy people are, by and large, the enemy. We need the George Soros of the world on our side. We need philanthropy on our side. And regardless of what we may think of Oprah's wealth, she has done some amazing things for less fortunate people all over the world. I don't really care for the sense of entitlement attitude, but I also don't care for self righteousness that I often encounter right here on DU at times from people who think they have the moral high ground.

Nobody's perfect and no one has a monopoly on morality.

If it's wrong, it's wrong and we shouldn't be prepared to make excuses.

[RZM]

98. I understand what you're saying

My point was more that it's just not the right case to expect people to get too concerned over. Racism is wrong, no matter what. But you're just not going to get a lot of sympathy for anybody with billions of dollars. Being Oprah does have its perks. It doesn't insulate you from racism or other types of problems that regular folks of all colors face. But it does mean that you can walk away from a problem knowing that your life will still be freaking awesome. And in the grand scheme of things, not being shown a handbag isn't even a particularly burdensome problem.

That's the difference. As a black woman Oprah does face some discrimination that even poor white people don't. But most of them would still take her problems and the money over problems like getting laid off, not having health insurance, and dealing with an underwater mortgage.

[kwassa]

106. well, you won't get sympathy from white people.

Black people will recognize it and go "I recognize that treatment. It happens to me". It is confirmation of how some whites view blacks in even the most advanced countries.

And no black person is immune from this treatment. Oprah's wealth and position doesn't immunize her. Barack Obama, as a an Illinois state senator, was mistaken for a waiter at a New York book party.

[iemitsu]

116. If you can't muster any sympathy for Oprah, over this incident,

fine, but can't you at least see the story the way all people of color see it? This is the essence of the story.
No matter how successful or wealthy a black person becomes (demonstrated by the fact that this happened to Oprah), they can never buy white privilege. And not only that, but if they complain about being mistreated, over their ethnic identity (which happens all the time), they will either have to provide absolute proof of racist intent (which is nearly always impossible) or apologize for having made the observation/accusation.
And then there's the after story, where all people of color have to hear how racism is ok when directed at the rich and famous.
That is the scenario you are asking others to accept as justifiable.
So Oprah can go get a too expensive handbag at another over-priced store, big deal. I'm not worried about the purse either but every black person was slapped by that clerk, who denied Oprah the purse, and hardly any of them can go spend money to make themselves feel better.
Go ahead and pile it on Oprah, but don't call yourself one who is sympathetic toward your black brother.

[Bobbie Jo]

92. They do it all the time

"And who are you or ANY white person to dictate what is and what is not racism? YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT!!!!!!"

I find the attitude dismissive and condescending.

I'm not a black woman, but I certainly wouldn't presume to tell a black woman that her experiences and perceptions are bullshit.

Can't believe that this needs to be said here...... repeatedly.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

97. This attitude from people who claim to be enlightened and who lose their mind

if there is any hint or suggestion of racism on their part.

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

113. That's true, however,

I don't think the OP could ever reasonably claim to be "enlightened".

[pipi_k]

117. You know...

For years I always thought I knew what the definition of racism was, then I started seeing the term being thrown around more and more here at DU, and so I decided to find out if maybe my definition differs from how others see it.

It does.

And here is why there is so much disagreement here over the word:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism

There is, apparently, little scholarly agreement on the meaning of the word.

Just like there's little to no scholarly or scientific agreement on when life begins.

According to the article linked to above, nobody has the ultimate last word truth on the meaning of the word.

That means if people admit racism exists but don't see it in this case, that doesn't mean they are "racists", or that they're wrong, or amoral, or stupid, etc.

It doesn't mean that group A which sees it one way is walking the Moral High Road over a group that sees it another way.

So. My position is that unless someone can come up with absolute proof that the shop never in its existence pulled the same attitude with a white person...only a black person...it's likely a misunderstanding of some kind.

Anyone have proof that the shop only does this to black people??

PS...here is an example of what I mean...I have breakfast on Sundays at a little family owned restaurant in town. Have been going for about 9 years or more.

Occasionally people will stop in and ask to use the restroom, which is located on the side of the building and requires the use of a key. I've seen people stop and ask, and I've seen the waitress gladly hand over the key. This past Sunday a dark skinned man stopped and asked if there was a rest room. She said no.

It was the first time I had seen it happen (minorities don't often travel through here). But it happened.

[Bobbie Jo]

122. Demanding absolute proof

As the basis for determining a real but highly subjective experience is absurd. That others "don't see it" probably has more to do with the lack of walking a mile in someone else's shoes than the lack of "evidence."

No, just because a group of people don't see racism when it's called into question doesn't make them racist, it makes them inexperienced. Refusing to acknowledge the possibility of a different experience makes them dismissive and condescending.

[pipi_k]

127. I agree with this...

Refusing to acknowledge the possibility of a different experience makes them dismissive and condescending

People who have suggested there may be other reasons besides racism have been met with contempt, condescension, and covert accusations of being racists themselves.

They've been met with those things by people who weren't even there, but who are absolutely, positively, 100% sure that it definitely was racism.

Those are the ones I have trouble with. The ones who, when presented with the possibility that some event could have been on account of something other than what they're convinced of, insist that their...and only their...perception is the "correct" one.

[Bobbie Jo]

128. Ok

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2013, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

People who have suggested there may be other reasons besides racism have been met with contempt, condescension, and covert accusations of being racists themselves.

They've been met with those things by people who weren't even there, but who are absolutely, positively, 100% sure that it definitely was racism.

Link?

ETA: yeah, that's what I thought. Nothing.

Done here....

[iemitsu]

115. Thank you for stating the obvious so clearly.

It wouldn't be so disheartening, to have to engage in this debate over and over again, if Democraticunderground was supposed to be representative of the nation as a whole, and not a democratic/progressive site.
One would expect to find kindred spirits here, supportive of workers, women, the LGBT community, the middle-class, the poor, the ill-educated, the dispossessed, and ethnic Americans (and any others in the 99% I did not list).
Instead, we experience in-fighting, over the very things and people, who are supposed to represent our core values.
There is no option to give up the struggle though, much as it sucks.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

121. Just look at some of the replies I got, turning it around on me. Now, I'm a racist. Now, I'm

claiming that ALL white are racists? It's ridiculous.

Thanks for your candor and thoughtful comments.

I totally agree with your sentiment.

And the fight continues...

[iemitsu]

124. Yeah, funny how the victims of racism all are characterized as racists themselves.

A great strategy for shutting down a discussion, and for identifying who, in a debate is an asshole (excuse me I meant, someone, who uses fallacious arguments).
It is also the primary means used to pressure any professed victim of racism, into recantation.
There is much about racism that most white folk don't understand, including the difference between racism and bigotry.
Do you suppose that your detractors really think their arguments and responses impress anyone? Its not that tough to recognize the ridiculous nature of their replies.
Its good to know that someone agrees with my perspective.

[Egnever]

119. Would be nice if you put the word some in there.

I think his OP is lame as well but. Saying it's difficult for white people to understand racism happens is like me saying i cant figure out why black folks cant get off crack...


Both are lame racist statements.

I have found in my life color has very little bearing on peoples character. If any at all. We are all just people regardless of color.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

120. Oh, yes! That's exactly the same. When I say white people, it should be obvious that I don't mean

ALL. Your analogy tells me all I need to know about you.

Yes, we are people regardless of color, but to dismiss people's experiences...well...I'll repeat: tells me all I need to know about you.

[BklnDem75]

86. Not seeing what you're seeing

Why do you think the story is bs?

[morningfog]

88. The OP is locked out of the thread.

[jmowreader]

100. It's likely the clerk knew who she was...

....and knew about the tantrum she threw at Hermes, and did the Swiss version of "we reserve the right to refuse service to assholes."

[CBGLuthier]

101. Yeah, that sounds real likely. An employee sending away a billionaire

just to avoid a scene. Yeah real fucking "likely."

God damn that is even stupider than the OP itself.

[kwassa]

107. There are a lot of haters speculating in this thread, aren't there?

[Rex]

109. The sad thing is I can look at some of the usernames and tell you what

they think about Oprah, without having to read their reply. Some of them are broken records that always find excuses for racism.

[kwassa]

110. I am just tuning in to this subset of DU.

But I have no illusions about racist opinions on this site.

[jmowreader]

123. It wouldn't have been to avoid a "scene"

Unlike the stores you and I can afford to go to, a store selling $38,000 handbags can afford to choose who they sell to.

You've read Hunter Thompson's "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," correct? Think about the scene where the hotel desk clerk was turning away a narc..."for the first time in his life he gets the chance to work out on a cop. 'Fuck you, officer, I'm in charge here and we don't have room for you.'" I see the same thing happening here. It's not like the store HAS to sell the thing anyway; there is such a thing as consignment.

[Rex]

103. Sure it was! Just like you have some kind of link

in your OP to prove it!

Obvious trolling is so freekin obvious...

[Xyzse]

105. Heck Rush L called Oprah fat

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=822942

The nerve of that guy.