So let me get this right - according to CNN the Security forces are

[malaise]

clamping down in Egypt with a plan to move the country forward by opening fire on the supporters of the elected President. Meanwhile in Syria the security forces are evil MoFos for opening fire on their citizens.

Amazing how the script is written when we support the dictators.

[dipsydoodle]

1. Good summary.

Sad but true.

[malaise]

32. Good link here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023460875#post1

[Downwinder]

2. When has the US not supported a coup?

[Art_from_Ark]

5. I'm pretty sure the US didn't support the 1978 coup in Afghanistan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/april/29/newsid_2970000/2970317.stm

[NoMoreWarNow]

13. many times-- we just call them terrorists or communists

[malaise]

23. Now we call them Islamists

They had to fill that communist void I think I'll add Christianists.

[Jackpine Radical]

35. Russia 1917, China 1949,

Cuba 1959

Outer Mongolia 1924

…

Any other questions?

[DetlefK]

3. The situations in Egypt and Syria aren't comparable.

In Syria, military-helicopters are bombing neighborhoods with shrapnel-bombs made from barrels (because they have already run out of real bombs).

In Egypt, the fears of the majority of the population came true when the constitution gave too much power to religion in politics and Morsi used that power to silence critics.

In both countries, a minority imposed its will on the majority. The only difference is, which side the military supports.

[malaise]

4. Look the opposition in Syria are pro-AQ

You can't support a coup against an elected government because it's led by the Muslim brotherhood and then support AQ rebels in Syria. Spare me please. It's fugging hypocrisy. The West supports anyone and anything that serves its self interest. Freedom and democracy my ass.

[n2doc]

6. We support whomever we can sell the most weapons to

If Assad were buying guns from us, we would be supporting him.

[malaise]

7. Ding ding we have a winner

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 08:08 AM - Edit history (1)

The war on terror is the war of weapons sales

[NoMoreWarNow]

14. you mean "war OF weapons sales"

just like most wars, really, except this one is self-perpetuating and never-ending.

[malaise]

19. Yes indeed

Edited - thanks

[DetlefK]

10. The syrian rebels are as much AQ as were the iraqi rebels.

There actually is infighting between AQ- and secular rebel-factions because the islamic militants are already trying to impose their doctrines on villages.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. The situation in Syria started out with the regime merely shooting protestors.

Pretty much the same as what the military in Egypt just did yesterday. It escalated into all out civil war, but that took a long time, during which the Syrian government was roundly denounced for shooting demonstrators. Shooting demonstrators is wrong, can we accept that as a starting point?

[malaise]

17. That simple and it doesn't matter who is doing it

The same media that had no problem ignoring the slaughter of Iraqis in an illegal war is quick to carry said propaganda for the West when it's a government they do not like.
Time for the planet to wake up,

[CJCRANE]

22. Using the power of the state to silence critics...

like we've never seen that anywhere before.



The MB should have been left to fall by the will of the people not by the army stepping in.

Now they are the underdogs and the martyrs.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. Yes that is about right.

The MB are a bunch of misogynist theocrats, but they were democratically elected. The military coup was given our tacit support, and in direct violation of law, we are continuing aid to that military by declaring the coup "not a coup".

[DetlefK]

11. You would rather do what is legal than what is right?

Hitler was democratically elected after imprisoning one party and threatening another. But hey, if the law says so, who are we to judge?

[Warren Stupidity]

12. I'd rather we weren't a hypocritical bunch of murderous assholes

Bullying our way around the planet.

The hitler comparison is bullshit.

[DetlefK]

15. Would you be happy if the egyptian military declared the coup legit?

Yeah, the Hitler-comparison somehow missed the point.

- The regimes of Myanmar, Cuba and Simbabwe are democratically elected.
- The anti-LGBT-laws in Russia are democratically legitimized.
- All the voting-rights-depraving, Sharia-fearmongering, abortion-lying, union-destroying laws in the US are democratically legitimized.

Lawful doesn't mean moral.

[CJCRANE]

25. Lawful doesn't always mean moral, but unlawful doesn't always mean right.

You're offering a very obvious false dichotomy.

[DetlefK]

28. That's why legal arguments don't apply to the situations in Egypt and Syria.

A coup against a democratically elected leadership isn't legal, but depending on the situation it CAN be moral.

[CJCRANE]

29. TBH I agreed with the coup at first

but now I've realized that the army has made Egypt ungovernable.

The MB represent at least 25% of the Egyptian population. You can't have a democracy where a quarter or more of your population are criminalized. That requires a police state. Now I think that was the plan all along.

[DetlefK]

30. The egyptian military could have solved this conflict within a week and without bloodshed.

1. Drum out a new constitution that gives less power to religious concerns AND to the military. Declare that the country will have a vote on it.

2. Use the Gaza-solution to get rid of the camping MBs: Isolate them, besiege them and carry them away one by one without using violence. (No hurry, getting them out of there isn't the real goal.)
Make sure that any further violence comes from the MBs, thereby de-legitimizing them and making them look less sympathetic for the upcoming constitutional ratification.

3. Vote on the constitution.

4. Vote on a new government.

[malaise]

34. The Gaza solution was and is illegal

You frighten me. Bye bye.

[DetlefK]

39. I refered to the israeli military non-violently removing israeli settlers from disputed land.

[malaise]

31. Would you be happy if the egyptian military declared the coup legit?

Huh? The Egyptian military overthrew the legitimate government? WTF do you mean by the question?

[DetlefK]

33. His concern was a lack of legality for the regime-change.

If you want some, you can always construct some.

[Warren Stupidity]

41. my "concern" is complicated, but thanks for simplifying it for your own purposes.

[malaise]

18. +1,000

and what's more many RWs supported Hitler - ask Prescott Bush
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar

[another_liberal]

20. It is a fine point of history, but still a fact . . .

Hitler did not begin "imprisoning" any political parties until after he became German Chancellor. Before that, he had no such power. It is to the Germans' eternal shame, but the NSDAP won more votes in 1932 than any other party slate on the ballot.

You can look it up.

[malaise]

24. We follow the law - we don't make it up to suit our agenda

[Jackpine Radical]

37. Misogynist theocrats?

You mean…they're REPUBLICANS?

[Warren Stupidity]

40. pretty much - it is odd how much republicans hate muslim theocrats

as they have so much in common. In fact, ideologically they are pretty much indistinguishable, except that the muslim theocrats don't have much of an economic policy, they are more focused on cultural issues than the republicans.

[malaise]

43. Over 100 dead plus over 800 injured

State of emergency - the hypocrisy is breathtaking.

Hey Egyptians,protect your museums - here come the raiders.

[another_liberal]

16. Well said.

Our dictatorial allies (and customers for our military hardware) are always the "Good Guys." Those dictators who aren't under our sway are always ruthless abusers of human rights.

[malaise]

21. Well said

[spanone]

26. k&r...

[liberal N proud]

27. Hush and believe what you are told to believe

[malaise]

36. BBC - protesters were throwing stones

and the Security Forces responded with live ammunition. Oh the humanity.

Turkey responds and describes the response as a massacre. Thank you Turkey.

[malthaussen]

38. And when it happens in Cleveland...

... they'll be just protecting our liberties.

-- Mal

[PowerToThePeople]

42. It is only a matter of time. n/t

[malaise]

44. It is whatever they tell us it is

or so they think. It's fugging crazy.

[Solly Mack]

45. ...

kr

[malaise]

46. So it's now several hundreds slaughtered

but remember this is not Syria so it's OK.

[Solly Mack]

47. and more will die.

[malaise]

48. Two journalists were killed - one from Dubhai and one one Sky news

Sky says it was a military attack on unarmed civilians. Rumors are that over 2,000 killed today alone.
You cannot support a military coup - you just cannot.

[bigtree]

49. so, with folks actually discussing these important events on this thread

Egypt's VP Mohamed ElBaradei has resigned to protest violent crackdown on Morsi supporters

CAIRO - Egypt's interim vice president, Mohamed ElBaradei, resigned on Wednesday after the security forces violently broke up protest camps set up by supporters of the deposed president, Mohamed Mursi.

In a resignation letter to Interim President Adly Mansour, ElBaradei said that "the beneficiaries of what happened today are those who call for violence, terrorism and the most extreme groups".

"As you know, I saw that there were peaceful ways to end this clash in society, there were proposed and acceptable solutions for beginnings that would take us to national consensus," he wrote.

"It has become difficult for me to continue bearing responsibility for decisions that I do not agree with and whose consequences I fear. I cannot bear the responsibility for one drop of blood."

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Egypt_Unrest_3


live-text timeline: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23691401#TWEET856029

my post:

Obama administration response to Egyptian violence looks little and late; and unheeded
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023461669

[malaise]

50. ElBaradei's resignation is important

"It has become difficult for me to continue bearing responsibility for decisions that I do not agree with and whose consequences I fear. I cannot bear the responsibility for one drop of blood."

Excellent