One of my nephews graduated from college with no student loan debt

[MineralMan]

in June. I talked to him not long ago. I asked him how he did it. ROTC, he answered. USAF ROTC, in particular. I don't see this nephew very often, but he joined the junior ROTC program in high school, and got a four-year scholarship to a state college near his home. He was in the ROTC program in college, too, as part of the scholarship.

He lived at home while attending college. He graduated with a engineering degree in the IT field, and is now a commissioned officer in the USAF. He has to serve for four years to fulfill his service obligation from the ROTC scholarship.

His tuition, fees, and books were covered by the scholarship, and he got a small monthly stipend for living expenses. He's now a 2nd Lieutenant in the USAF, waiting for assignment. He graduated Magna cum Laude. He has a job. His starting pay in that job is $2784/mo, plus some other allowances for food & housing.

It's an interesting approach to college costs, but with some side effects. But, he has no student loans to pay off. He has a job. He can stay in the USAF or leave after four years and join the general job market. Depending on what his assignment is, he'll have some experience he can call on when applying for a civilian job.

Now, he did have to live at home, but lots of young people end up moving back home after graduation.

He seems happy enough with his solution.

[sharp_stick]

1. It works

I've worked with quite a few people who've had their med school paid for by the military. They have to put in a stretch in the military to make up for it.

One thing I'll say about them in general is that if I'm ever in need of an ER trauma visit, I'd really really want one of those former military docs running the show.

[MineralMan]

2. It seems like a reasonable solution to the issue of

financing a degree to me. I transported another nephew to high school for a while. One day a week, I saw kids in USAF uniforms coming out of the school when I picked him up. Almost without exception, they were Hmong students. They're taking that option, probably because there's no other reasonable way for them to get a degree. Most Hmong families in Minnesota can't afford to put a kid through college. Smart of them and their parents.

[Wait Wut]

3. I wish him the best.

While the ROTC and military service is good for some people, it isn't for everyone. My son served 9 years in the Marines and went on to get a degree courtesy of our government and tax payers (thank you, everyone!!!). My nephew wouldn't last a day in the military, so his parents (my brother and his wife) got a 2nd mortgage on the house and have taken out student loans.

What I would love to see, besides a 'public' university system, is the same type of programs for civilians. Volunteering for four years in any social setting/program. Too many kids are being left out. I know too many people that had dreams of college that they put off until they could 'afford it' only to be stuck in the rut of crappy hourly wage jobs with no benefits.

Paid internships with college credits and reduced costs would be another option. Expanding trade/technical/specialty schools along with scholarships and grants.

[MineralMan]

6. Yes, I'd like to see an option available for civilian

service, too. It would be a good thing.

[Journeyman]

8. Back in the '70s, I had some dental work done at UCLA. The student who performed the work. . .

told me he was getting a good portion of his tuition paid by the government because he signed up to spend 5 years on a Reservation providing dental care in exchange for a waiver of expenses. He would be paid a small sum while there, and receive free housing, but when he left he'd be free and clear of student loans.

Costs were considerably less back then. And he wasn't sure how his wife was going to respond to living in rural Arizona/New Mexico. But he was stoked that his education would be paid off once he completed his obligation, and he looked forward to helping people who would otherwise be unable to afford his level of care.

Don't know if similar plans are offered today. I hope so. It seems a benefit to all.

(He got an 'A' for his work on me. I got some excellent dental work done. And my parents saved a bundle, since payment to the University was done on a sliding scale based on income.)

[Wait Wut]

10. Oh yeah! That's how one of my exes got his degree!

Duh. Forgot about him. He had the same agreement but as an history teacher. That would have been back in the 70's, as well. I'm not sure if they still have anything like that. You would think you'd hear more about it. My ex was Native American, so maybe the programs have been limited to NAs.

How beneficial would this be if they did this for potential doctors? With the increased number of patients due to the ACA, and the shortage of good doctors (that aren't freakin' whining about the need to sell one of their freakin' houses), this would be a great option for lower income families. Not only that, but what a great way to introduce a young doctor into the field of medicine while educating him/her in social skills. Not just on reservations, but inner city clinics and ERs. Free clinics, etc. You give us 4 years, we give you a pretty degree to hang on the wall of your practice.

I'll vote for it.

[Ilsa]

4. Not available to everyone.

There are folks with even minor physical disabilities or chronic illnesses (including obesity) that will not make the cut to be in the military, even though they can excel in college.

But I'm happy that his education went well, and I hope his career is fulfilling.

[MineralMan]

7. That's true, of course.

You need to maintain a good GPA, too, through the entire program.

[leftstreet]

5. Thank his parents for their service n/t

[Pholus]

9. That's good, but the 80's in Minnesota were better...

$3K/year tuition combined with Pell Grants and Minnesota State Scholarships were covered even with middle class parents. If you kept your grades up, no student loan debt. Some help from parents and a small part time job to pay rent and food and you were set.

Things are nowhere near that nice anymore it seems.

[MineralMan]

11. Sure, and the 60s were better yet.

This is the 20teens. It's all changed. Today, a kid needs to start planning while still in high school or things can be very difficult.

Starting adult life saddled with a huge college debt puts anyone at a serious disadvantage. My nephew, apparently, decided on his direction while in high school and worked toward his goal. I'm sure his parents had something to do with that, as well.

Anyhow, the whole ROTC thing is a path that can be taken, but it takes an early decision and keeping your GPA up throughout school. If you can do that, you can skip the student loan and start out fresh.

It's something worth thinking about for a lot of kids.

[hunter]

12. I graduated from college without any loans.

My rent was $85 a month, my grandma sent me $100 a month, gasoline was less than a dollar, I could make $8-10 an hour loading trucks or moving furniture, tuition was free, student fees were $1300 a year, and my most expensive books, big thick things, were $75. Many of my professors had reading materials available from the copy shop or the 24-7 section of our school library. One of my professors had thirteen of us in his class, and more than enough of the required textbook on reserve in the library. (His class was small because he would give his average students a "C." But anyone who was brave enough to take his class was not an average student. Nevertheless he brought grant money and prestige to the school...)

Frankly our society ought to be paying people to attend college and grad school and encouraging people to teach at all levels, from preschool to graduate school. Our nation has been severely damaged by Ronald Reagan anti-intellectualism.

[AZ Progressive]

13. The shift from seeing people as assets to liabilities / burdens

The shift from seeing people as assets and that thus deserve help, benefits, and good pay to seeing people as liabilities / burdens that don't deserve benefits and help and of which as little money should be given to them. Reagan and the Right Wing Rich promoted this way of thinking that has taken over much of society over the past 30 years.

[warrant46]

14. The GI bill was also an opportunity to do just that

It worked for me and my youngest son. The US got all of their money back in the intervening years. Just giving out loans isn't the real answer. Service to the country in some form would be a good idea.

But the Banks and the ruling class want to some how make a profit. And the New Taliban ( the republicans) want a large class of sheep they can hatefully manipulate.

Once a person gets a liberal college education they are less able to be manipulated to vote for the evil the 1% has in mind for them.

[MineralMan]

15. True. That's how I paid for most of my college.

$256.00 per month. But that was in the late 1960s, and it covered the whole shebang, since my parents sent me $100/month too. State college.

[warrant46]

21. Ditto state college

Part of the Wisconsin system early 70s. Almost 25% of the students were Vets

[TransitJohn]

16. One misdemeanor marijuana possession charge would wreck that option eom

n/t

[MineralMan]

18. That's true. There are some drawbacks to the plan.

That's avoidable, though.

[tblue37]

17. My daughter decided against the USAF as a way to pay for med school, because

Last edited Wed Aug 14, 2013, 05:50 PM - Edit history (1)

she would have been owned by the military until she reached the age of 40, and she absolutely did not want that.

She is now a successful young (age 32) doctor with a significant student loan debt--but only for med school. She didn't take out any loans for her undergrad degree (she was a super-student and got a full scholarship) or for the master's in public health and social policy she got in Ireland as a Fulbright Fellow.

She also did two separate residencies (emergency and aerospace medicine), so she didn't immediately go into a highly paid medical career after completing her first residency, but spent two more years as a low-paid resident.

As a doctor, though, and someone too wise and mature to spend wildly now that she has a decent income, she expects to pay off her nearly a quarter of a million in med school loans within the next 5 years, by devoting nearly 1/2 of her take-home pay to loan payments.

She had a chance to go to the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs, but I am extremely glad she didn't. In addition to the awful rape and sexual harassment statistics there, that academy is also a hotbed of fundamentalist religious pressure.

If she had joined the Air Force to pay for med school, she would still have 8 years to work off before being free of that commitment.

Although I grew up as an Air Force brat, and I was the first of 6 siblings to not join the military (and my 3 older siblings did benefit from their military service), I am glad that both of my kids steered clear of the military.

The Iraq War all by itself was a good reason to avoid military service, but there also is so much wrong with the way we use and abuse our soldiers these days that I would never encourage anyone to fall into the grips of the military.

[MineralMan]

19. It's certainly not the right choice for everyone.

For some, though, it's a path.

[Electric Monk]

20. edit: Oops, replied to the wrong post. nt

[Zorra]

22. I hope he gets through the next four years without being killed, injured, or

psychologically damaged in a war.

And hopefully, he won't be forced to kill innocent people in another senseless Bush type of war. That seems to really cause serious emotional devastation to combat military who have hearts and consciences.

I have two female family members whose husbands saw action in Iraq, and one of them saw action in Afghanistan as well. Both have severe PTSD accompanied by violence, alcohol, and drug problems.

One no longer lives with his former family, the other is just a wreck, and the family is suffering terribly from his instability.

So many young people join the military, not realizing the devastating, life destroying consequences it will have on their psyche and their entirety of ther lives if they are unfortunate enough to be sent into combat. Especially in senseless wars for profit like we have been seeing since Vietnam.

I wish your nephew good luck, and hope he survives his stint in the military without it ruining his life.