Kerry looks both naive and ineffective

[cali]

From August 2nd:

Kerry’s dangerous praise for Egyptian army

http://www.salon.com/2013/08/02/kerrys_dangerous_praise_for_egyptian_army/

those comments occurred after the July massacres. Here we are two weeks later and the military has massacred 150 more today.

His comments today:

The United States strongly condemns Egypt's violence, calls for the state of emergency to end as soon as possible and urges all sides to seek a political solution, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry said on Wednesday.

"Today's events are deplorable and they run counter to Egyptian aspirations for peace, inclusion and genuine democracy," Kerry told reporters at the State Department.

"Egyptians inside and outside the government need to take a step back, they need to calm the situation and avoid further loss of life," he added.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/us-egypt-protests-usa-idUSBRE97D13H20130814

Hey, President Obama and Secretary Kerry, three words: The Leahy Law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law

[ProSense]

1. Senate rejects Rand Paul-backed plan to end Egypt aid

Senate rejects Rand Paul-backed plan to end Egypt aid

Posted by
CNN Capitol Hill reporter Lisa Desjardins

(CNN) - The Senate on Wednesday defeated a proposal to cut off U.S. aid to Egypt. The measure, pushed by Republican Sen. Rand Paul of Kentucky in the wake of the military takeover in Egypt, only got the backing of 13 senators.

The measure would have shut off $1.5 billion in aid to Cairo.

The proposal from Paul was not new. A similar measure of his received just 10 votes last fall.

Both parties have internal disagreements over this issue, but Democrats said earlier this week the vote may be tougher for Republicans, who are divided between libertarian sentiments against foreign aid and conservative bullishness to use funding as leverage overseas.

For the White House, the vote came as officials try to thread a slim policy needle, refusing to determine whether the military takeover of the Egyptian government was a coup. If it were officially labeled as a coup, U.S. law dictates that foreign aid should stop.

- more -

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/07/31/senate-rejects-rand-paul-backed-plan-to-end-egypt-aid/comment-page-1/

The vote was 86 - 13.

Roll call: http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=113&session=1&vote=00195

[cali]

2. as if he's the only one.

I think you can expect some (more) angry words from Pat Leahy about this. Oh, I know Leahy is a racist Obama hater, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leahy_Law

[ProSense]

3. He voted against cutting aid. n/t

[cali]

5. yes he did. but he had some harsh words for the administration

and don't expect he'll stay silent after this. He played the good team player (alas) but don't bet on that after this latest crime by the Egyptian military.

[ProSense]

6. "He played the good team player (alas)"

Wow, that's insulting to Leahy.

[cali]

7. No, it's not. He's my Senator. I support him. Unlike YOU I don't

devote myself body and soul to a politician and I feel no need to agree with everything a politician that I support does. I realize that that's an entirely foreign concept to people like you and that you'll never be able to grasp it.

[ProSense]

8. You

"No, it's not. He's my Senator. I support him. Unlike YOU I don't devote myself body and soul to a politician and I feel no need to agree with everything a politician that I support does."

...started the OP to insult Kerry and hype Leahy. In light of the fact that Leahy voted against cutting aid, you insult him by saying he was being a "team player."

[blm]

14. Yep - that Natasha Lennard is so convincing as an expert on that region.

.

[DevonRex]

16. Then you should support him AGAINST the Rand Paul amendment. nt

[cali]

22. Really? I have to support every vote my Senator makes?

How sad to even "think" that way. And Leahy made some pretty strong comments about continuing aid to Egypt. Expect him to reiterate those comments and call for aid to cease.

[ProSense]

29. No, but you insulted him for his vote. You don't have to support him, but

McCain Criticizes Kerry, Says He ‘Predicted’ Situation In Egypt
http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/mccain-criticizes-kerry-says-he-predicted-situation-in

...takes a statement that Kerry made that was misinterpreted and he walked back, and uses it to reject his eloquent statement calling for calm and an end to the violence.

[karynnj]

49. Not only that, this is what Senator Leahy said on Kerry's SOS nomination

"Madam President, I want to commend President Obama for
nominating Senator Kerry to be our next Secretary of State. There are
few, if any, people in America today who have had the breadth of
experience that Senator Kerry has had: as a military officer, as a
highly decorated veteran, as a Lieutenant Governor, as a U.S. Senator,
and as chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee. He is exceptionally
well qualified to be the next Secretary of State.
John Kerry is a leader of extraordinary intellect, wisdom, and
insight. To those of us who have watched him, worked with him, and
traveled with him over the years, it is crystal clear that he is a
natural diplomat. He lives and breathes the art of diplomacy. He is
instinctively drawn to understanding and addressing the global security
challenges of our time.
He is also multilingual. I have heard Senator Kerry in meetings in
other capitals of the world, and I have watched those who were there
pay special attention to what he had to say as he conversed in their
language. This is someone who does not need on-the-job training. He has
been learning the job over the course of four decades of public
service."
http://beta.congress.gov/congressional-record/2013/01/24/senate-section/article/S245-1

Unlike Cali, Senator Leahy has personally known Kerry well for 28 years -- in a body with just 100 people. I seriously doubt that Senator Leahy would agree with this thread. No one is the Senate had to say anything on this nomination. If Leahy had any misgivings, he could easily have just voted yes and said nothing. This is a personal recommendation that goes beyond anything collegiality dictates. Not to mention, Kerry has been doing an excellent job - including succeeding in starting peace talks in the Middleeast that EVERY pundit said could not, would not happen.

The fact is that the administration's position is necessarily convoluted at this point. It seems obvious that they were working with Morsi as much as they could before the coup- and were attacked frequently for that. Their problem is that they NEED Egypt far more than Egypt needs us -- and they need our money badly. If the administration calls the coup a coup -- they can't by law give them money. This leads to the Alice in Wonderland language from Kerry, Obama and others. Clearly the goal of the earlier comment was to put a good face on a terrible situation and to try to influence them to move away from a military dictatorship - which is what they have now. It was coupled with calls to avoid violence.

The King of Jordan, one of the better people in the area, parsed things similarly. In his case, he said it was not a coup because a coup puts the military that led the coup in charge -- and this doesn't and there will be elections. Similar pretzel language. Was he naive and ineffective as well? Who has been clear eyed and effective here - the men who led the coup? The Muslim Brotherhood, who lost power and is fighting back?

I have no idea what anyone outside of Egypt can do to make things better. Two Americans that I know who lived in Egypt for about 5 years had different reactions to the coup. The older saw Morsi as leading the country backward and destroying things that had taken Egyptian friends years to build. The younger felt that having a coup itself destroyed the chances for democracy as the right thing to have done would have been to find a legal way to remove him - such as an election. She then speaks of the awkwardness of arguing for the MB to have remained in power. (I was with them in early July and have not spoken to them since the middle of July)

I have not heard anything from Leahy on what he thinks the United States can or should do on Egypt - though I have not followed the news for the last week due to traveling. What do you think should be done given the circumstances? Leahy did vote to not pull foreign aid -- which would imply that he too sees the problem in blindly calling it a coup and being forced to either cut aid or pass a bill that would end that restriction at least for Egypt. (The latter in my opinion would be a nightmare for Democrats.)

[Nuclear Unicorn]

4. As you know I'm no fan of the MB but I agree with Leahy Law & suspending aid to Egypt

[DevonRex]

11. All Democrats voted against the Rand Paul amendment. nt

[DevonRex]

10. Um, Senator Leahy and 82 other Senators voted against Rand Paul's

amendment. Every Democrat voted against it who voted. One Democrat was not present to vote.

Only Republicans voted for it.

[cali]

61. Um. yeah and now chew on this.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/reaction-of-senator-patrick-leahy-on-developments-in-egypt-219786221.html

told you so.

[Scootaloo]

57. So are you for continued monetary aid to Egypt's military?

[Ichingcarpenter]

9. Obama administration

Obama admin: We strongly condemn the non-military non-crackdown by the non-junta that staged the non-coup in Egypt

Now take your military aid money we want you to have.

[DevonRex]

15. Only Republicans, and damned few of them, supported Rand Paul's

amendment to cut aid to Egypt.

[Ichingcarpenter]

17. It was a law made made by a Democrat

that we don't give aid to juntas that over threw a government.

The aid money went to Egypt's military not the people.

[DevonRex]

21. But Leahy voted against the Rand Paul amendment. All Dems did.

You follow Rand Paul if you want to. I think he's a fucking nut, personally.

[Ichingcarpenter]

28. The aid went to the military do you care about that?

It went to the Junta, but that bargaining chip has already been spent. That money could have been used to influence the junta the Obama administration should suspend all aid, keep the embassy in Cairo closed, and refrain from treating the military regime as a legitimate government."


That's the point

Ran Paul's shit is not the point, don't you dare group me with him.

Obama sent McCain to Egypt for christ sake to do diplomacy in egypt....


McCain........ got that?

[JI7]

30. because McCain is a supporter of Morsi and huge critic of the military in Egypt

and what they are doing.

[Ichingcarpenter]

31. McCain's an idiot and has no place

in this administration.

Now we are defending this asshole?

good grief.

[JI7]

32. mccain is trying to prevent what the military is doing to the muslim brotherhood

and others.

you have a problem with that ?

[Ichingcarpenter]

34. You mean Bomb bomb iran McCain?

the one that twice didn't know the difference between Sunni and Shiite?


The one that went to Syria and hung with kidnappers?


yes I have a problem with him and his 'expertise' on the situation in the middle east

The one that brought this nation Sarah Palin?

Keating 5 McCain?

yes I have a problem with that

He's an idiot and the worst kind of republican

[JI7]

35. he isn't being asked for his advice but to try to get the military to stop what they are doing

[Mojorabbit]

59. What we have no Dems who could have been sent? nt

[karynnj]

53. All true - but he can - as Senator - go on many Congressional trips

[Ichingcarpenter]

60. President Carter wasn't asked by Obama but.

"The president asked Sen. McCain and myself to go to Egypt next week, so we're trying to find a way to get there," Graham said. "So we can go over and reinforce in a bipartisan fashion the message that we have to move to civilian control, that the military is going to have to, you know, allow the country to have new elections and move toward an inclusive, democratic approach."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/30/obama-lindsey-graham-john-mccain_n_3678676.html




Carter has massive credibility with Egyptians and would have been more effective diffusing the situation. Those two yo yos have none.

[karynnj]

52. He is NOT in this administration - and likely never will be

He was on a Senate cotel. He is a member of the SFRC and the Armed Services committee.

[karynnj]

51. McCain went to Egypt as a Senator on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

At the same time, Williams Burns, an undersecretary of State, went to Egypt representing the Obama administration.

Yes, I know there was a Reuters article that said that McCain and Graham went "for Obama". However, how often is something as complicated as foreign policy covered intelligently in run of the mill articles written with almost no time to learn the details and the media propensity to give McCain more credit than due. In fact it was a Senate cotel.

Did you see any media say that Kerry and Dodd went to Syria in 2005 or 2006 for GWB? In fact, a stronger claim could have been made for that. They met with the State Department before going - which is customary - and they asked Condi Rice if there were questions she would like asked. They got a list.

Note - this while the RW media was in full rage that they went to Syria - even though they were the number 2 and 3 members of the SFRC and Kerry headed the subcommittee on the Middle east and Near east.

[blm]

12. Yes - I'm sure Natasha Lennard has vast experience in covering that region.

.

[DevonRex]

18. LOL, her BFF at The Guardian said something so she said, yeah, me too!!!

[JI7]

13. we can only cut aid to egypt if we do the same for israel

[arely staircase]

37. +1 nt

[chimpymustgo]

50. Let's DO it.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

19. No one cares about your partisan opinion of Kerry

I'm sick and tired of all the cat mewling going on in here about Democratic leaders. RIDICULOUS is how you look.

[DonRedwood]

20. Some posters say they are Dems but never ever seem to support one...

[msanthrope]

24. No Dem is pure enough for the Far Left. nt

[burnodo]

48. There's very little "far Left" (a Republicanism if I've ever heard one) in the Democratic party

People called Ralph Nader, a staunch Capitalist, "far left". It obviously has no real meaning for some people.

[noiretextatique]

56. what in the hell is the far left?

i am especially interested in the media outlets this group controls.

[Scootaloo]

58. Whoever disagrees with a right-wing troll n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

40. Perhaps those who don't understand criticism of the Democrats , or any elected official,

confuse support with obsequious servility.

[cali]

25. sorry. but you don't speak for all of DU.

and tough if you're tired of it, poor wittle you.

the people who look ridiculous are those who whine incessantly whenever their beloved idols are criticized.

[rhett o rick]

36. I dont think name calling is appropriate here. If you dont like what he posts, provide

your counter arguments. Or if you have nothing place him on ignore.

[leftstreet]

39. WTF is 'cat mewling?'

[Pretzel_Warrior]

41. http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mewling

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/mewling

[burnodo]

42. cali's partisan opinion as a Democrat?

strange thing to dislike

[Pretzel_Warrior]

43. cali's partisanship tends to run anything anti-Obama or anti-Obama administration

[burnodo]

44. well then you haven't read many of her posts

she's a staunch Democrat

[Pretzel_Warrior]

45. I have read others and complimented on those. the gigantic blind spot of hating power of all types

is evident. Since Democrats got our guy in power, some people have experienced cognitive dissonance. They want to rage against the powers but they want to support Democrats so they choose to say Democrats in power are not true Democrats and rage against them. Problem. solved.

[burnodo]

46. Wow

Reaching. Straining. Desperate to prove that someone who disagrees with you MUST have some sort of problem. They MUST have some sort of problem!

[Puzzledtraveller]

23. Pretty much

[Cali_Democrat]

26. Totally disagree

I think, so far, he's proving to be one of the best Secretary of States this country has had.

[karynnj]

54. Not surprisingly, I agree

and he is doing it with the US media always ready to nip at his ankles and to rarely give praise for anything. (One example - the plethora of articles on how he was delusional that he could restart the peace talks, followed by maybe one or two days of surprise when he did (though they questioned if they really would start), followed by articles pointing out there were more important things he needed to do.)

This week, if you read just the short articles on his trip to Columbia and Brazil, you would think that he was hated and think the entire trip was questions about the NSA and Snowden. While he did speak to those issues, there were in both countries some substantial things done and some very nice meetings. (The pictures do not depict the hostility that articles pretrip predicted.) Snowden DID create problems for the US, but the Kerry visit fixed some of the damage. The media gave the trip little coverage as the trip did not give them the negative soundbite they wanted -- instead, it did what a diplomat could do in a situation like that.

[ProSense]

27. Here is Kerry's full statement

Remarks by Secretary of State John Kerry on Egypt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023463137

[leftynyc]

33. I don't see anything wrong with his statement

It's a revolting situation - having to either take sides with an out of control military or an Islamic takeover of Egypt. Both sides suck but we aren't in a position to just ignore it and hope it goes away.

[oberliner]

47. What would be less naive and more effective?

You think we should go the Rand Paul route?

Ted Cruz, Chuck Grassley, and Mitch McConnell were some of the other supporters of his bill to cut aid to Egypt.

[tabasco]

55. LOL!

You're the one who looks naive, IMO.

What's your plan for achieving world peace?