Ask a Puke why 'Obamacare' is bad, the answer could be amazing!

[DainBramaged]

They have no logical answer.

Just happened to me.


I'm off today taking a break. Went for my Monster kona java and some gas. Guy at the counter telling the Indonesian clerk how bad President Obama is for America (I added President, he called him "that mutt") made my hackles go up. But this time I let him spew his hate for a bit.

He turned to me to get me to agree and I replied "Your first mistake is calling the President a mutt, that reduces your credibility to ZERO so why don't you tell everyone exactly what is wrong with the Affordable Care Act ?"


[b"]It's gonna kill everyone"!


"You should look it up on the Google machine but you probably watch Fox. They have all the answers don't they?"

With that I popped open my can of Monster and left him to try and explain to the folks coming and going why he's so smart. Guys who smell and smoke aren't the best candidate to debate the Puke position on the ACA.




(PS, I don't care if you have an opinion on Monster drinks)

[Rex]

1. It's gonna kill everyone!?

Shit...I thought ACA stood for something else then! Geez...when do we all get euthanized? I guess it is mandatory. I don't really want to die, but I better show up anyway - don't want to get into any kind of trouble now with the government.

[Wounded Bear]

5. Euthanasia will start....

as soon as the formula for Soylent Green is perfected.

[Kelvin Mace]

2. Everyone?

"All 330 million of us?

Sounds ambitious, do tell me how this will be accomplished."

I go for somber questions which force them to strip the hyperbole.

[shenmue]

3. Yes, that's why they called it the Kill People Bill

Ugh.

[Humanist_Activist]

4. His was a stupid reason, there are many reasonable reasons to not like Obamacare...

First, those with jobs that offer crappy health insurance, make around 11 dollars an hour, are penalized by being with an employer that offers insurance at just under the 9.5% of their income limit for premiums, even though, if they worked for someone, everything else being equal, that doesn't offer insurance, the government subsidized the exchange premium to reduce it to 4.7% of income. So you are penalized for working for a company that offers insurance, even if its crappier than what would be available on state exchanges.

Second, for people in situations like this, Bronze plans seem to be what they can afford, just don't use it for more than checkups, because that several thousand dollar deductible(no annual limit now), will hit, so you have a choice of filing Chapter 7 or 11, big improvement! The government MAY subsidize you deductibles and copays(don't take too many medications a month, you might not be able to afford it!), but only if you are on the exchanges.

Did I mention that you have no choice as to whether to get on the exchanges if you employer's insurance barely meets minimum requirement, even if you could get a better deal on them?

[DainBramaged]

6. Well, at the very least you're smarter than he is

and i guess this is a PERFECT time to inform us how bad you think the ACA is.

[Humanist_Activist]

7. First, they shouldn't force employees to use their employers plans...

and the limits imposed, along with subsidies, ONLY apply to those on the exchanges. At this point, I'm not sure, but I would have to change jobs to either one with a drastic pay cut, or to an employer who doesn't offer medical insurance just to get affordable health insurance, because I would need the subsidy. There's a question mark as to whether I can qualify for the exchanges(if gross income, no, if take home pay, yes), won't even know until at least October, and most likely January, when the health insurance at work changes, again.

Let me put it this way, at my income level, I should not pay more than about 4% of my income on premiums on the exchanges, my employer's insurance is a little under 9.5%. Because they offer insurance, I get no subsidy, and neither will any of my coworkers, so we are being overcharged by over 5%, every month, and that's just on premiums. The plan my work has is a 60% plan, with deductibles and copays that are equal to the worst plans on the exchanges, but again, because I can't get on the exchanges, I would have to pay 100% of that, with no subsidies.

[DainBramaged]

9. I make $470 a week and they take out $141 EACH FUCKING WEEK for me and my daughter

Don't tell me the ACA is bad, because if not for the ACA my daughter would be without healthcare while she finishes school.


Go complain to your boss, because we can't do shit.

[Humanist_Activist]

11. "I got mine, fuck you!"

Nice message you have there.

[DainBramaged]

12. Go complain to your boss, because we can't do shit.

I was wrong when I said you were smarter than a Puke.

[Humanist_Activist]

15. OK, never mind then, I thought you were rational, I was wrong. n/t

[Rex]

17. I don't think that is the message you think that is the message.

More like, "what shall we do about it?" is more inline ie..okay then as DUers what will we do to fix the situation? I want single payer too, but will be thrilled to get ACA in my neck of the woods. Oh wait I live in Texas...nm...no doubt Perry will find a way to fuck it all up.

[Humanist_Activist]

18. No, that's his message, as far as how to fix it...

remove the employer shackle, once and for all, have everyone qualify for exchanges to begin with, regardless of what their employer offers. That would be a good first step. Or, have subsidies be usable by those on employers plans that meet the minimum requirements, but aren't affordable.

Let me put it this way, if something happened to me, next year, I would be in debt for up to HALF my total income, for the year, in medical bills, and that's being optimistic, whereas, if I was on the exchanges, it would be a little less than a quarter. That's a significant difference. This is assuming the annual cap was still in place.

ON EDIT: I want single payer, that would be the ideal, but if we can't have that yet, then make the mandate affordable and usable, otherwise, why have it? At this rate, why should I pay hundreds of dollars a month on insurance, that I can't use, when I can simply pay a fine that is a fraction of that cost?

Whether I'm covered by insurance or not, if I have to go get medical care for anything serious, I'm going to have to hire a lawyer and file bankruptcy soon afterwards, so what is the point of the insurance?

[DainBramaged]

23. Are you still riding this horse?

You need the phone number for your Senator or Congressman?


Jesus your anger is way way misplaced.


And PS I ain't debating shit with you, your mind is made up, ACA BAaaaad,everything else, gooooood.

[Humanist_Activist]

25. Uhm, only you are dealing in absolutes, I however, am not, there's a thing called nuance...

learn it.

[Hydra]

20. That's the main message I've gotten when I've said ACA will kill a particular group

There is a fairly large crack between the people up to 133% who can get medicaid on the program and the ones right after who won't be able to afford it with or without the subsidy.

I got lucky and got a job that covers me, but I am still concerned about the group I used to belong to. The standard answer I've gotten when I say something is "It saves my butt, STFU!"

We needed something better than Nixon/Gingrich/Romneycare, and even what we got is now getting gutted in favor of the insurance companies.

Way to go, there..."best we could do"

[Humanist_Activist]

26. Honestly, I don't know what their problem is, they don't even want to fix the problems...

that are being laid bare, instead telling us to shut up and deal with, what, being financially ruined? They are so partisan they refuse to see that the ACA has both good AND bad aspects to it, its a fucking compromise, for crying out loud!

[Hydra]

29. The emperor has no clothes

The problem with that story is they left out the part where they torture/kill the people who dare point out that the emperor really IS naked.

[Humanist_Activist]

13. I make about the same and my insurance is more expensive, for just me...

double it for a family. If that 141 dollars is per week though, that's a LOT more than me, and you would definitely qualify for the exchanges once they are in place.

I hate to be be a downer, there are plenty of things that are good about the ACA, but also things that are downright bad or don't make sense. Can't we try to discuss these rationally, rather than thinking the ACA is "the best thing ever!"

[Humanist_Activist]

28. Well I'm glad that the law will have a positive affect on yourself and your daughter...

please recognize that this isn't universal, and holes need to be plugged. Also, damn, you are getting ripped off, big time, by your insurance company. Granted, at my work, premiums damn near double once you add anyone but yourself to the plan.

[MindPilot]

8. "I should not be forced to pay for other peoples' bad choices"

That's the one I hear the most; ACA is "mandated charity"

So the conversation usually goes like this:

RW: "Obamacare is socialism!!1!"

ME: My problem with ACA is that it is a giveaway to the insurance companies and it is not single-payer, in other words, the exact opposite of socialism. Why do you think it is "socialism"?

RW: "I shouldn't have to pay for other people's bad choices."

ME: "Bad choices?"

RW: "Yeah, like if people smoke or do drugs and won't get a job."

ME: "You pay for other peoples' bad choices all the time. That's why you buy car insurance, that's why your taxes pay for cops and the Coast Guard. Every time you are stuck in traffic, you are paying for someone's bad choice."

RW: "That's not the same thing."


So yeah, no answer.

[Rex]

10. Wow, that sounds like where I live!

But we usually only get to the first claim and then when I ask what socialism is they can NEVER explain it correctly! 99% of the time it is...yep...communism.

ME: Well what do you think about social democracies?

RW: What the HELL is THAT?

[DainBramaged]

14. The ignorance is staggering

[Rex]

16. That's Texas for you.

I SO wish the ones here that want to make Texas a nation into itself again, would go off and find their own island. Actually I don't care if they find an island...I just want them to go away.

[Isoldeblue]

19. Sometimes, I wish

that a giant sink hole would open up and swallow up both Texas and Florida.

[uponit7771]

21. Yeap, that can be done right here on DU....man "dems" think its bad too

[DainBramaged]

24. And it makes you wonder......

[Humanist_Activist]

27. How dare those of us with concerns want the law to be better! Its perfect as it is!

[DainBramaged]

30. If you're so fucking unhappy with the ACA start a thread you can beat to death

as of now by putting you on ignore, I don't have to see you shitting in my thread.


Bye

[madokie]

22. Bravo

Sometimes the less said is best as you demonstrated there.
Pukes and dumb asses piss me right the fuck off.

[DainBramaged]

31. Ahhh that's so much better. The flotsam has vanished

those who so adamantly knock the ACA here are suspect in my view.

[Humanist_Activist]

32. I find it illuminating that you find people like me to be flotsam...

I did not insult you, nor did I shit on your thread, instead I inserted a little bit of reality into the discussion, and got attacked for it, relentlessly, by you, even after giving concessions.

I know I'm on ignore, but this post isn't for your benefit, but for others.