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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNot Just A Novelty Item: Get to Know the Americans You'd Least Expect to Fancy the Firearm
http://www.good.is/posts/good-magazine-feature-not-just-a-novelty-item-get-to-know-the-americans-you-d-least-expect-to-fancy-the-firearmGood article, with much about the Liberal Gun Club
Now, at the behest of that same editor, Ive stepped into foreboding new terrain. When I first learned that people like me were gravitating towards firearms at a moment like this, I was revolted. Id come to equate every American gun owner with Lanza, with James Holmes, with Seung-Hui Cho. Mine was a perspective that not only lacked nuance, but that had strayed from reality. My own rhetoric had become a shorthand in which merely owning a gun threw a person into a camp of those who were cavalier with deadly weapons, whose personal rights trumped public safety, and who were politically alien to me...
...Despite the high-profile mass shootings, and enough guns for every adult in the U.S., according to a Pew Research Center analysis of government data, the homicide rate is down 49 percent since a 1993 peak. By 2011, other violent crimes with firearmsassaults, robberies, sex crimeswere down 75 percent from 1993. According to the Centers for Disease Control, each year in the United States, approximately 11,000 people are killed in gun homicides. Nearly 20,000 die in gun suicides. Cox reminded me that in comparison more people (35,000) die in car accidents each year. According to data derived by Stephen Dubner and Steve Levitt in their book Freakonomics, a child is about 90 times more likely to die in a swimming pool than by gun.
For some liberals, doing the mathaligning policy with the available data feels like a natural extension of their political philosophy. Marlene Hoeber, a glorified mechanic at a biotech firm, is a gun owner who describes herself as a lefty feminist. To Hoeber, the gun debate is the only time she sees the American left treating numbers and evidence as completely irrelevant, as though there is no reasonable political discussion to be had. Her characterization reminded me of years of willful denial of climate change on the right. But, says Hoeber, the strategy of chipping away at rights looks an awful lot like the anti-choice movement to me.
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/
And yes, they actually *do* provide gun safety training- thus helping to break the NRA's near-monopoly
on training:
http://www.theliberalgunclub.com/firearms-courses/firearms-courses/
Our course is designed to be intimate and free of political baggage. It is aimed at inexperienced firearms owners or those who simply want to relearn the basics. Class sizes are small and range instruction groups are even smaller they are limited to no more than three students at a time. This makes for more one on one time with the instructor so that you get the most out of your time at the range.
The course consists of both a classroom portion and a hands-on portion at a range. The classroom portion takes approximately 4 hours to complete. After successfully mastering the class materials you will spend an additional hour on the range familiarizing yourself with the proper way to safely and effectively handle a handgun.
For more information email the LGC Education Coordinator for your state listed below. If you dont see your state listed, we apologize but encourage you to check back again new instructors are being added all the time, maybe one will be close to you. Thanks for your interest in The Liberal Gun Clubs Basic Firearms Course.
sigmasix
(794 posts)this sounds like a worth-while endeavor- where do they get their financing though? Is this just another right wing gun nut attack on sensible gun owners, or is this honestly paid for and run by progressives from the top, down?
mwrguy
(3,245 posts)like the pink pistols
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)mwrguy
(3,245 posts)Like most "liberal" gun groups
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Last edited Sat Aug 17, 2013, 09:27 PM - Edit history (1)
For example, Mayors Against Illegal Guns is entirely the creature of Michael Bloomberg
and The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence has fewer than 50,000 members
The American Hunters and Shooters Asociation turned out to be almost 100% synthetic.
Americans for Gun Safety was actually triangulation for Third Way Democrats
http://www.agsfoundation.com/
Americans for Gun Safety (AGS) and the AGS Foundation (AGSF) have been folded into Third Way, an organization founded and operated by the former AGS and AGSF management team.
For Third Ways latest gun safety policy and message guidance, please visit our gun issues page. There you can also find reports produced by AGS in a special sub-category.
For current gun safety data and other information, we recommend the American Hunters and Shooters Association, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, and Mayors Against Illegal Guns.
Press inquiries:
Matt Bennett, Vice President for Public Affairs
202.775.3768 x212
mbennett@thirdway.org
Like I said, if you've got actual evidence (as opposed to rumor) that the Liberal Gun Club are not
what they purport to be, by all means post it. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Yeah, that one right over your heads.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Of course, merely saying that marks us as agents of Satan...err, the NRA for some.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)sarisataka
(18,648 posts)to have a group challenge the NRA in the training certification arena. Right now there is no other organization to go to to learn about firearms or any other safety program for children.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Democratic politicians buying into gun control myths will be deaf to the NRA -- and I can't say as I blame them because the NRA is a predominantly a GOP beneficial organization. Only red state Democrats have any use for the NRA. The bulk of Dem pols need a group they can relate to without sleeping with the enemy.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)In fact the average commute time for the US is 25 minutes.
It would be a fairly unusual gun owner who fired their weapon(s) every day, let alone fired it for 25 minutes continuously every day.
Comparing the death rate for cars to that for guns is not a valid comparison, instead compare the death rate per use of the item in question. In that case the death rate per use for cars is far lower than that for guns.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)..in a safe manner. Not practicing with a gun you own is an excellent way to increase the odds that it will used in an
unsafe manner. Ending the NRA's near-monoply on gun instruction a) makes it more accessable to non-
right wingers, and b) gives the NRA a good kick in the slats.
And according to certain DUers, merely being near a gun is dangerous:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023433039
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)In fact I had a deer rifle pointed at me late last year, the owner was so excited and distracted he had no idea his gun was pointed right at me.
The same guy bought his 12 year old daughter a deer rifle for Christmas, I hope he teaches her better safety habits than he displayed himself.
Here's my post I put up about the incident in January this year.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2168660
oneshooter
(8,614 posts)yet they do, on a regular basis.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)The kinetic energy in a car going 40 mph is enough to reduce it to a pile of twisted and mangled scrap metal, far more energy than any personal firearm might impart to a projectile, even a .50 cal sniper rifle.
However unlike guns cars do have other uses besides killing living things.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)And yet cars are still more likely to kill you than a gun is, and the odds are even worse if you count
the effects of pollution from their manufacture, use, and the need to find oil to fuel them...
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)And not all cars need oil any more either, that is a trend that's only going to accelerate.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)Now they're more dangerous while being used.
Which way is it?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Evidently you disagree.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)Cars are designed to do other things, but unfortunately can end up being very destructive. The SINGULAR purpose of guns is to kill.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Going to see what their instructor qualification process is and if it will be worth it for me.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)and has come away with an outlook not in keeping with the controller/banners, here and elsewhere.
Expect her to be condemned as RW, pro-NRA, Astro-Turf, brain-washed, or just a plain liar.
But she goes against authoritarian doctrine and rigid narratives which are daily promulgated by controller/banners, and she looks right into the hideous culture war that has built up around these doctrines and narratives and has made up her own mind.
Are you liberal enough to read and understand what she is saying?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)If you mean a member of the Liberal Gun Club, not yet. I am still weighing options about which liberal or non-partisan pro-2A group I will join. The beginnings of a gun-use instruction program is a positive in LGC's favor as it indicates some long-term viability. The Blue Steel Democrats seem to be increasingly long-term, but Northwest-oriented.
What do you think of LGC, if this is what you are referring to?
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)The important part of this OP is the experience of the writer. It's one thing for a news editor to send a reporter (usually female) to the gun range to see what all the fuss is about, and to take lots of pretty pics; it's quite another to see this reporter go into the subject with hardened views, yet come away with such a different point of view, and one which resonates with what a lot of folks have been saying on DU. She picks up on the increasingly shrill and divisive nature of "gun issues" among liberals, and speculates on why there may be an expansion of gun-ownership among liberals. We don't know for sure that is happening, though the anecdotes she cites give an indication this is true. BTW, this is augmented by some data (in Connecticut, of all places) where the number of permits increased significantly after Sandy Hook. These are not merely CCW permits but the state's permit requirement to own any number of guns. The upshot, there is a strong increase in the number of gun-owners. But for now this remains speculation because not enough time and effort has been spent studying any trends, should there be any. IMO, this is because of the Balkanization of politics around guns.
Liberalism suffers when it can't move beyond moral condemnation to take seriously so-called counter viewpoints and speculation. I thought we were supposed to be good at that.
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Holy crap that is HILARIOUS!!! Oh and paragraph breaks are helpful.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)If I had something to say to the OP I would have posted to the OP. Thanks for asking though.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Please, go away Stevie.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)I think you evidently care a LOT for what I say.
And I'm still here, hangie.
Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #27)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)Apparently you do
HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)I don't have any power over my posts being hidden or not except to check myself in what I type. I did not mean to jump on you, but it was obvious the poster had pushed a button. I hate guns and think they should all be melted down into something useful.
Response to burnodo (Reply #32)
HangOnKids This message was self-deleted by its author.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Zimmerman as Jesus on the fucking cross, I might be interested...
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)tumtum
(438 posts)and I'm here to tell you they are a great gun club, they generally stay out of the limelight and work behind the scenes to get good firearms laws passed, they're in favor of Universal Background Checks, they're in line with Gabby Giffords goals, they don't throw "controversial gun rights bombs" like the NRA or the GOA. They have their own training program with their own certified instructors not related in any way to the NRA instructor program.
All in all, they're a really great club to belong to for liberals and moderates who are sick and tired of the divisiveness of the gun control issue.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)I learned to set aside unfounded fears.
I *would* have considered myself merely a moderate but those I left behind in the pro-control side of the aisle are so nasty, petty and just plain ol' ill-tempered (thank God they don't have guns!) I find myself drifting from the median to open advocacy. I also resent their insistence that I don't know what's best for my body and my family. They're all about defending a woman's right to abortion in the event of rape but they refuse to defend her right to not be raped in the first place.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)I am just as pro choice on abortion as I am on gun ownership.
Honestly, if the DNC dropped gun control they wouldn't lose a single vote. Very, very few vote based on pro gun control stance and those who do are generally very liberal anyway. But there are. Plenty, especially in states like NC, who are moderates but get swayed away from voting democratic by the issue of gun control.
Drop gun control, endorse resposnible concealed carry and ownership, shut the politicians on our side who talk about confiscation up, and we would take a majority forever.
Bake
(21,977 posts)I agree wholeheartedly!
Bake
Populist_Prole
(5,364 posts)I can think of so many people I see every day that the only reason they vote GOP is the gun issue, the recent push by pols for gun control gave them all they needed to hear. It's a stupid issue for the democratic party to run on since no democratic voter is NOT going to vote democratic just because they're non anti-gun enough. They should put their energies in the real most important issue: the stranglehold the corporatists have on policy.
I'm a progressive and a gun enthusiast, and my vote counts as much as any other democratic voter.
burnodo
(2,017 posts)Oh, I know, "I gotta defend myself" types are all over the place, but the gun was made for one purprose and that should be, at least, recognized by gun advocates.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,182 posts)...but getting them to actually admit it is a whole other story.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Although I don't think that's what the poster meant to do.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)FOOD FIGHT IN WASHINGTON OR WONKY STATISTICS.
#3: CLAIM MORAL AUTHORITY AND THE MANTLE OF FREEDOM.
Sources for more detailed talking points
http://www.progressivemajorityaction.org/sources_for_more_detailed_talking_points
Who says we're not willing to help out?
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Evidently that makes me a bad person.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)That will help save far more childrens' lives than a futile pursuit of a moralistic crusade.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)I had a high powered hunting rifle pointed right at me last deer season, the buck with his guts blown out in the back of the pickup didn't make it any more comfortable for me. The more guns are around the more casually people take the responsibility of handling them.
I posted about my experience on Jan 10 this year.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2168660
rl6214
(8,142 posts)Paladin
(28,257 posts)Whatever beneficial aspects of The Liberal Gun Club may have, have been nullified by your snarky-assed, agenda-heavy posts on this thread. Thanks for your reliable help.
friendly_iconoclast
(15,333 posts)...(as in the case of the author of the linked article), or unwilling to cede ownership of gun politics
solely to extremists on both sides they might very well find the LGC congenial.
I'll concede that there are two sorts that will never be willing to give the LGC a chance-
a) The NRA leadership and those even further Right (Gun Owners of America, et al) simply because
they despise liberals and progressives with the burning hatred of a thousand suns, and
b) Hard-core gun haters who need a Great Satan in the convenient form of the NRA.
The mere existence of the LGC fucks up their narrative of "Gun owner= trogolodyte"
These are the types who claim here at DU (without presenting any evidence, mind you)
that the LGC is a false-flag op by the NRA.