General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHightower: The Trans-Pacific Partnership is not about free trade. It's a corporate coup d'etat
Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2013, 11:35 AM - Edit history (1)
<snip>
This thing is a supersized and nuclearized NAFTA, the 1994 trade scam rammed through Congress by Bill Clinton, Wall Street's Robert Rubin, and the entire corporate establishment. They promised that the "glories of globalization" would shower prosperity across our land. They lied. Corporations got the gold. We got the shaft -- thousands of factories closed, millions of middle-class jobs went south, and the economies of hundreds of towns and cities (including Detroit) were hollowed out. (Most Mexicans got the NAFTA shafta, too. US grain traders like ADM dumped corn into Mexico, wiping out millions of peasant farmers' livelihoods, and thousands of local businesses were crushed when Walmart invaded with its Chinese-made wares.)
<snip>
This time we really must pay attention, because TPP is not just another trade deal. First, it is massive and open-ended. It would hitch us immediately to 11 Pacific Rim nations (Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, and Vietnam), and its door would remain wide open to lure China, Indonesia, Russia, and other nations to come in. Second, note that many of those countries already have trade agreements with the US. Hence, THIS AMAZING FACT: TPP is a "trade deal" that mostly does not deal with trade. In fact, of the 29 chapters in this document, only five cover traditional trade matters!
The other two dozen chapters amount to a devilish "partnership" for corporate protectionism. They create sweeping new "rights" and escape hatches to protect multinational corporations from accountability to our governments... and to us. Here are a few of TPP's provisos that would make our daily lives riskier, poorer, and less free:
Food safety. Any of our government's food safety regulations (on pesticide levels, bacterial contamination, fecal exposure, toxic additives, GMOs, non-edible fillers, etc.) that are stricter than "international standards," as most are, could be ruled as "illegal trade barriers." Then our government would have to revise our consumer protections to comply with the weaker global standards. Also, our government could no longer ban meat imports that don't meet our safe-to-eat laws, as long as the exporting nation simply claims that its inspection system is "equivalent" to ours. In addition, food labeling laws we rely on (organic, country-of-origin, animal-welfare approved, GMO-free, etc.) would also be subject to challenge as trade barriers
<snip>
Well, you might think, we'll still have our courts to redress corporate misuse of TPP's provisions. Uh... no. One of the deal's chapters creates a monstrous monkey wrench called the "Investor-State Dispute Resolution" system. In this private, supra-legal "court," corporations are empowered to sue TPP governments over environmental, health, consumer, zoning, or any other public policies that the corporations claim are either undermining their TPP "rights" or diminishing -- get this -- their "expected future profits."
<snip>
http://www.hightowerlowdown.org/node/3402#
No doubt the PuppetMasters will get the RepubliWankers all charged up in "support" of TPP, and they will thus blithely shoot themselves in the foot, once again SUCKERED into supporting something that is poison for them and the rest of the nation.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Why is the Democratic President and most higher ranking Democrats in Washington so actively supportive of this. The rethugs have always been corporate shills, their minions accept that...the dem party has historically been the labor party..the ones who should be in vehement opposition. The Dems are who will lose their party over this, not the repubs..and frankly the Dems deserve to lose their party over it..It is Dems who are "all charged up in "support" of TPP".
Can you show a single ranking Dem who has muttered a single word in opposition?
Berlum
(7,044 posts)at the rotten core of this initiative lies RepubliThink, a sickness which does indeed infest the brainpan of many a Dem.
bvar22
(39,909 posts)and the White House is leading the "negotiations".
The have Shut OUT all representatives for:
*Organized LABOR
*Environmental Protection
*Human Rights
*and the Media.
These "negotiations are being held in "secret",
and the White House is seeking Fast Track Authority to have this passed in Congress
*without debate
*with NO Amendments
*straight Up or Down vote.
(probably after midnight on a Friday, so those again betraying America's Working Class can sneak off and hide before the sun comes up.)
The Republican Party in NOT even involved with the TPP at this point.
This is ALL the current Democratic Party Leadership's initiative.
You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)They have been the Washington Generals to the Republicans Harlem Globetrotters for the last 30-40 years! Why is it so hard to believe that Democratic politicians would be bought off just like the Republicans? Is it because they are "spineless?" Stop calling it that, call it what it is, THEY ARE BOUGHT OFF!!!
We have the U.S. Chamber of Commerce planting fake newspapers online and outside of Courthouses spewing anti Plaintiff lies to influence jurors. We have a co-opted media who ignore real stories and smother us with distracting fluff, distorting truth at every opportunity! We have corporations who write our laws and we wonder why they pay no taxes and can pollute as much as they choose. What we have is a shadow government that controls the Congress, Judicial branch, and the media. Oh yes, and this position called the POTUS!
Civilization2
(649 posts)They will keep using the war-OF-terror and the worsening global-warming fallout disasters to justify taking more and more power, while militarizing the local and state police forces, for the eventual martial-law end to democracy. It is gone but in feigned lip-service anyhow,. we just see corporate-banksters getting the laws they want nowadays,. no really democracy where the actual will of the people matters.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)believe! They keep looking the other way when their team (Obama and the other Dems) does something for the 1%! They make excuses, get defensive over Obama... and refuse to believe campaign money has no affect on Zdemocratic politicians.
Civilization2
(649 posts)Where is the critical thinking, where is the objectivity? Democracy requires constant questioning, and debate,. otherwise it is the sick joke we have now,. rather pathetic.
cali
(114,904 posts)cult of personality that they throw everything else by the wayside.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)I have a close friend who really suffered during the Bush Administration. He says that his faith in America was dashed when Bush was re-elected in 2004 - he just couldn't understand how people didn't see through the guy even given the obvious nature of the Bush Administration's crimes.
With Obama, he has chosen the "eleventh dimensional chess" option of coping with the cognitive dissonant reality of having so much at stake, emotionally, in promoting the Democrats but at the same time watching the Democratic President propose some stunningly Anti-Democratic policies. It's easier to simply trust that the President is much smarter than we are, and all of these things are really secretly brilliant ways of humiliating the Republicans, than to resolve the conflicting narrative.
I don't necessarily find it pathetic, but frustrating. Believing one's self to be essentially powerless, and putting all your bets on an Administration cobbled together from former Bush appointees and Wall Street CEOs, hoping that it will somehow do something progressive in the future.
Civilization2
(649 posts)trust, should only be given with proof through actions,. not faith in words.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)are controlled by corporations.
Dustlawyer
(10,493 posts)Volaris
(10,260 posts)This is the kind of (ACTUAL) usurpation of National Sovergnity that the right-wing loons are always bitching about in terms of the UN Black Helicopters and whatnot. The tea party gets one WHIF of what's actually going to go down with this TPP agreement, and the game will be up. And really, I could care less if they blame "Big Government Liberals for trying to ram it through in secret..", as long as this Shadowrun-enabling monstrosity is destroyed in its crib.
What's funny though is how the Corporations think if we decide that we don't like something later on, we won't be in a position to change it.
We The People: It's the Law. We can do whatever the fuck we want with it.
Corporation X: No, actually, you can't. See it says so right here.
WTP: Fuck you then, were backing out of the Partnership.
CX: Well, see you can't it says so right here.
WTP: What the fuck are you going to do if the Treasury Dept just stops writing the checks every month? Declare a Formal and Open Stare of Warfare bewteen Corporations X, Y, and Z and the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA? Come and TRY, and see how that works out for you. You think you're losing out of profit margins NOW? Put Eric Prince's little Private Army to work, and see how fast they can't handle a USARMY Abrams Tank Division, and then go ahead and run the Quarterly Numbers again, you Morans.
That they think a Democracy will just be BEHOLDEN to whatever is done behind our backs and without our OVERT approval would be laughable, if it were not PROOF that these people are completly Off Their Rocker crazy lol.
valerief
(53,235 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)and as a matter of fact, many tea party caucus members of the House oppose this.
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)the Sorcerer's Apprentice
Sometimes these things get out of the control of their creators.
Volaris
(10,260 posts)but the thing is that a lot of Republican voters who consider themsleves forgotten about or trampled over by Big Government in the past 30 years are actually just people who don't know who is really stepping on them. The Corporations USE that anger and mis-education to maintain a kind of faux war between Liberal and Conservative, because a unified realization of how badly they are fucking over EVERYONE would be incredibly bad for the Corps.
For me, it's like being mad at someone still living in Plato's Cave for not understanding how Sunlight works, but there's a hole drilled in the ceiling. They know now it's dark, and they are figuring out that that's bad, but they don't know that if they go outside it won't be that way amymore.
I agree the Tea Party is a corporate invention. The people who support it, are not (IMHO). They are just not smart enough to know better at this point. I say we start educating them, and in the meantime, we get every god's-honest, actual LIBERAL elected to Congress that we can.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The essential thing is to end the NSA surveillance program and the next thing is to end some trade agreements we already have and prevent this one from every being enacted. We can have fair labor, fair trade, environmentally positive trade agreements, but not these one-sided pro-corporate laws foisted on us without our democratic input point by point.
We need to have federal referendum votes on certain things. That was technically just too difficult to implement when our Constitution was written, but technical limitations would not be an impediment any more.
The Congress is not representing us carefully enough. They make deals we citizens would never agree to.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)and increased militarization of police. Once the people figure out we've been royally fucked, the PTB need the ability to clamp down on the mobs. Corporations don't want an uprising on US soil. WE are the enemy they fear, not a couple dozen terrorists living in a cave in Pakistan.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)US Democracy is just an illusion.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)It would be a disaster for the middle class.
She is completely sold out to the corporations. Completely.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)completely.
pipoman
(16,038 posts)Dems deserve what they get by not demanding the party oppose this...it is evidenced by the silence right here on DU. Time for a Labor Party to emerge and the second it does I will be their biggest advocate. Shameful corporate greed by the President, and every Democrat who isn't actively opposing this.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)The Dems have not been the party of labor since the inception of the DLC.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)WCLinolVir
(951 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)DU mods (apparently) and Obama's shills (for sure) do not like to see links to progressive sites such as that. My posting a few days ago was locked because it linked to that site.
Here's their reasoning for the lock:
"Locking, per consensus of GD hosts."
"There was a lot of debate in the hosts' forum in regard to locking your OP due to your source, OpEdNews, which is considered by many as being an outlet for conspiracy theories. "
Locked Post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023439122
Keep up the good fight though!
cali
(114,904 posts)I'll be pretty shocked if they lock this, but I'm sure it's been alerted on
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Are the names of the administrators of various groups posted somewhere?
There were some crazy theories in the article cited from the source, like a reference to chem trails (which a scientist can easily explain to anyone who really wants to know), but I have a lot of confidence in DUers to discern between passing remarks that are crazy in a posted article and facts and discussion that raise points deserving discussion. I have a higher opinion of DUers than that.
cui bono
(19,926 posts)This site has really gone so far downhill it's not even amusing any more.
SunSeeker
(51,378 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)but what the hey or hay or whatever.
Nuclear Unicorn
(19,497 posts)Especially over such strong objections from his base. I'm not prepared to ascribe nefarious motives to President Obama but neither am I willing to say its some cloth-eared naiveté.
Is there some data he's seeing that we aren't?
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm as sad and baffled by this as you are.
As the negotiations are secret and what we know came out from leaks last summer, it's difficult to know what data the President has that we don't, but it's awfully hard to see any good in this thing from what we do know.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)pampango
(24,692 posts)republicans will hate it and it will never pass the House. (Although without TPA, the House could strip out the labor and environmental requirements and pass the rest.) If they are not in the final agreement, Democrats should hate it and reject it.
http://www.pewglobal.org/2012/12/10/u-s-china-economic-relations-in-the-wake-of-the-u-s-election/
Obama seems to know that we cannot compete with China by lowering standards. China will always win that race. China is vulnerable to an agreement that raises standards since it cannot join unless it does the same. This is the what European countries get out of the EU. Membership brings the removal of tariff barriers but high labor and environmental standards.
...the negotiation is subject to the U.S. domestic politics. At the very beginning of the negotiation, the United States reminded other countries that the U.S. Congress would not accept a TPP without strong labor and environmental measures. Obviously, the United States aims to lower the comparative advantages of developing countries so as to create more job opportunities for itself.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90777/8113289.html
And China knows that the TPP is not a good deal for them. "Obviously, the United States aims to lower the comparative advantages of developing countries so as to create more job opportunities for itself."
Octafish
(55,745 posts)To help enrich the owners and operators of Wall Street.
for those susceptible to psyops.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Have to hold his feet to the fire here...
cali
(114,904 posts)(US Trade Rep), crafting it and pushing it, but here's how it works: First the both Houses of Congress have to pass something called the TPA (Trade Promotion Authority) also known as fast track. Only the Senate actually votes on trade agreements. If the TPA passes, the Senate can only vote Yea or Nay on the TPP as presented to them- no amendments and no filibustering per the TPA. The TPA will thankfully be quite difficult to pass in the House. Expect MAJOR arm twisting from the leaders of both parties. There's an odd coalition opposed to it, comprised of liberal dems and tea party types.
Volaris
(10,260 posts)because SOME of the Tea Party types are just Republicans who were smart enough to boo Mittens when he stood on that Hay Bale and said "Corporations are People, my friends."
They are Republicans who just haven't been told in 75 years that they are ALSO LIBERALS. Lets start educating the FUCK out of them, to the detriment of the likes of Glenn Beck, Mitch McConnell, Rupert Murdoch Jamie Dimon, Eric Cantor and Rand Paul.
Because when THAT happens, that woman who "wanted her Country back."? She will get it.
cali
(114,904 posts)How so? Opposing the TPA sure doesn't make them liberals. These are anti-regulation, anti-labor people. Nothing liberal about them.
Volaris
(10,260 posts)Perhaps, "burgeoning Anti-Corporatist" would be a more appropriate turn of phrase?
cali
(114,904 posts)block, oppose and stymie Obama in any way they can. Most of them want lower corporate taxes (or none), want to do away with all or most regulations and regulatory agencies from the EPA to OSHA. Hard to see them as anti-corporate.
I like your sunny hopeful pov though.
Volaris
(10,260 posts)by bitching about, and actually going to court over, having to pay an extra DOLLAR A YEAR to fund the County Library, (theres a thread posted in Breaking News? I think) and I have a deep-seated and unquenchable thirst for their absolute political destruction.
Some, I think, can be brought around. The others, probably not so much. If you and I split the difference, I can live with that, AND I think the ones we save will be enough to get a functional government back into DC. And THAT I will count as a win for all of us.
But yeah, there are days when they don't make saving/educating them easy, I'll admit.
tritsofme
(17,325 posts)In fact, as these sorts of agreements typically involve revenue (tariffs) they must originate in the House.
But you are correct, a new TPA would prohibit amendments and guarantee a timely up-or-down vote in the Senate and House. This gives the president the authority to negotiate a firm agreement that will not be butchered by Congress. Without TPA these sorts of agreements are completely unworkable.
pampango
(24,692 posts)Heck, the republican congress would not renew TPA for Clinton even though he pushed through NAFTA. And this House distrusts, to put it mildly, Obama even more than the Gingrich congress did Clinton.
Therefore, I think it will not pass in this congress. Perhaps if the republican opposition to labor and environmental standards in the TPP that will be another nail in their electoral coffin. The AFL-CIO is "fighting hard" for "enforceable" labor standards. If they succeed, the tea-party-led House will either delete these provisions (without TPA) or reject the whole agreement. If the AFL-CIO does not succeed in this, Democrats should reject the deal.
mick063
(2,424 posts)If so, where is it coming from?
If the TPP is enacted, what is the means to reel it back?
Can this be done unilaterally?
cali
(114,904 posts)TPA, also known as fast track.
mick063
(2,424 posts)Chained CPI for one. The linked tax increase was too much for them to swallow.
Perhaps the TPP as well?
cali
(114,904 posts)reps who don't want to vote for anything put forth by the admin and partly liberal dems. In some article I read the author called it a Baptists and bootleggers campaign.
If you haven't, perhaps you'd consider contacting all three of your congress critters and letting them know you strongly oppose the TPP and the enabling legislation, the TPA. I believe the Electronic Frontier Foundation has a pretty good form letter, if you're interested.
Hotler
(11,354 posts)to show up and defend the president's position. Especially the part about this administration keeping details secret.
cali
(114,904 posts)They rarely show up on TPP, TPA or TTIP threads. When they do, it's passing strange. I've had people just deny links and facts. Weird.
Marr
(20,317 posts)their "hair on fire" wait to see how it turns out before complaining... which is asinine. Wait until its decided and done before you say anything-- but if it turns out badly, it's because you didn't 'hold his feet to the fire'.
90-percent
(6,828 posts)Does any public figure or politician exist that speaks in favor of this TPP?
What public figure is out there that believes in TPP enough to advocate for all it's benefits?
I don't know of any, but I'm in my liberal bubble and get almost all my news from DU links.
-90% Jimmy
cali
(114,904 posts)who support it and are working to pass the TPA
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)They know it would hurt us, the working class citizens, they know it would compromise the sovereignty of the nation, but they are hell bent on making it law.
We don't want more of George H W Bush's New World Order®. We don't even want the part of it we already have, that has already damaged the nation.
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm actually cautiously optimistic that the TPA will not pass.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)IMO.
cali
(114,904 posts)but honestly, how does proclaiming that, help stop the TPA or TPP or TTIP, in any way?
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)of losing their constitutional rights of representative government due to a trade deal that gives corporations supremacy.
The American people of every political stripe now recognize that their elected representatives have sold their souls.
Say it after me, "The TPP is an act of treason!"
cali
(114,904 posts)I'm not sure what the right language to use to wake people up is, but it's certainly a discussion worth having. You've made me think about it and for that I thank you.
If, in the very off chance, I come up with something pithy and compelling, I'll let you know.
AdHocSolver
(2,561 posts)Works for the Republicans and the Tea Party.
K and R.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)It's a nearly verboten subject.
historylovr
(1,557 posts)L0oniX
(31,493 posts)Does anyone even think that a corporation really personally cares about people? They are by nature sociopathic from the top down.
cali
(114,904 posts)Would you say that about these corporations?
High Mowing Seeds is a wonderful corporation and it fights Monsanto!
http://www.highmowingseeds.com/
http://www.non-gmoreport.com/articles/february2011/savingthesafeseeds.php
Seventh Generation is a corporation that has shown its dedication to the environment and its employees.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh_Generation_Inc.
And there's this:
http://www.gardeners.com/
and this:
http://americanflatbread.com/
and this:
http://www.cellarsatjasperhill.com/
OK, so these are Vermont companies and pretty small. I think that Seventh Generation has the largest profits- around $150 million a year, but there is a really interesting growing business culture in Vermont with an emphasis on social responsibility.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)We have corporations helping to write bills ...our diplomats shilling for corporations ...our government spending its time on deals for corporations ...our house reps voting for what ever will get them more money for their campaigns and future high paying jobs
Maybe I could have worded it better by inferring that it is the large multinational corporations. I have no problem with the old school corporations who return to society a portion of their wealth, who care about their employees and environmental impact ...but they are rare to be found if you are even looking anymore. Maybe I am just not looking or expecting it anymore.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)underwraps and trying to pass it within the confines of the shadows away from the light.
cali
(114,904 posts)I think we'll be seeing this whole thing come under the public spotlight. It's going to be ugly and they can't avoid it being public.
Catherina
(35,568 posts)Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)focusing on it. However, it does seem that a lot of people here are paying more and more attention and this thread does have a lot of recs.
Now if only people could see how awful, how unconscionable the U.S. drone policy is.
thanks.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)..I know that NAFTA turned out to be CRAPTA, but this looks hideous in comparison...
And what's with the eternal push to 'normalize' GMO's that sicken us? Is that part of the plan too? You know, get 'em sick with the food they have no choice but to consume ($$$$ to the growers/producers), and then pump 'em full of drugs to get 'em 'well' again($$$$ to Big Pharma)...
Very, very worrying...
FlyByNight
(1,756 posts)...by the administration and money-rotted media: it's every bit as bad as it looks.
To be fair, I know the president hasn't signed this (yet) but I'll be (pleasantly) shocked if he doesn't. This "trade" "deal" is appalling and a big FU to the 99% of us.
cali
(114,904 posts)has to be renewed by the Congress. 2) If that happens then the Senate has to vote yay or nay (no other options allowed under the TPA).
this is his creation, crafted by his appointees. Of course he'll sign it if it's passed.
Fortunately there's broad opposition in the House to the TPA.
Utopian Leftist
(534 posts)He thoroughly warned us against NAFTA.
If you ever get the chance, read his essay, "GATT, NAFTA and the Subversion of the Democratic Process." It's 20 years old now but it is the same thing that is happening today, just on a smaller scale.
This horrendous TPP is like GATT (General Agreement on Trade and Tariffs) on steroids!
cali
(114,904 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)At the time, I was somewhat bemused by the Perot supporters. However, everything he said aboit NAFTA turned out to be true. Wish I would have listened closer.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)...but Bill was SMOOOOOOOTH!
He actually convinced a gullible America that competing with 3rd World Slave Labor for OUR jobs would be a Good Thing, all the while smiling and telling us that he "felt our pain".
Now THAT is smoooth.
Who is he hanging with today?
Is he still feeling our pain?
You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
Phlem
(6,323 posts)Bill on the other hand, I can't stand the term "big dog", he fucked us too. What's with all the hero worship of ...politicians ? Fucking politicians!?
I know a few teachers at my girls school that are worthy, but politicians?
keep up the great work bvar22
-p
LongTomH
(8,636 posts)Sidetracking the Multilateral Agreement on Investment in 1998.
Derailing an expansion of the World Trade Organization in 1999 and again in 2010.
Defeating the Free Trade Area of the Americas (a 14-nation expansion of NAFTA) in 1999.
Halting such multi-nation trade deals as AFTA (Andean countries) and NAFTA-style deals with APEC (an earlier attempt at the TPP with 18 Pacific Rim Countries), SACU (Southern Africa), Malaysia, and Thailand.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)We have to conduct a massive campaign against it. This and the surveillance nullify our Constitution.
Fascism is on the march, and it is carrying a "liberal" banner. Don't be fooled.
The TPP will be a nightmare for you and me.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)-p
tritsofme
(17,325 posts)I feel like these negotiations are an exercise in futility.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)policies catering to the rich are.