Forever 21 letter to all full time/non-management employees

[4dsc]

Time for call and boycott this retailer.

[denverbill]

1. No, it's time for a change in laws. Everyone gets benefits, part-time and full-time.

You work 40 hours a week, you get full benefits. You work 32, you get 4/5. 24 hours, 3/5.

That way companies have no financial incentive to use part-time workers.

In the meantime, until there are no Republicans in Congress that is, a boycott is about all we can do.

[Initech]

2. [phone]

[Scuba]

13. + another

[corkhead]

14. better yet, lets not have healthcare tied to employment at all

[denverbill]

16. Yes, I'd prefer that as well, but part-timers would still not get retirement, or paid time off.

If you give companies any incentive to make employees part-time, they will. Maybe not as many if we had universal health care, but some still would.

[corkhead]

31. agreed!

[hfojvt]

15. except then they have an incentive

to not offer anybody any benefits. 4/5 of nothing is still nothing.

Which is what they are doing now anyway, I guess.

I think I would like to see employer provided insurance go away. As it stands now, there are huge inequities in that system.

One incentive for part time is the flexibility to schedule for rush hours.

Suppose you are managing a restaurant and there is a big crowd for lunch and another one for dinner. With part timers you can schedule a whole bunch of people to work from 10-2 without needing to pay people basically for doing nothing from 8-10 and also from 2-4.

Another way to do that though would be with VTO. Voluntary Time Off. Which Citi used to do almost every day, and most people took it.

[denverbill]

21. Employers must offer healthcare to employees under HCA or face fines.

At least employers with more than a certain number of employees.

No doubt part time workers are needed in lots of situations. I don't have any problem with hiring part time workers in a situation where the need for employees varies like in restaurants. But I don't see any reason why part-time employees should get less per hour in total compensation than full-time employees.

[Puzzledtraveller]

34. We gave them a 1 year waiver remember?

The have time to kick all their peeps off their plans but individuals still have to have insurance next year so they will have use the exchanges and pay for their own.

[hfojvt]

41. and that's just another thing that makes ACA suck

IMO.

It just brings more people into an already crappy arrangement. And offering 4/5 of a bad insurance policy would still be unaffordable.

Under ACA how much of the premium do employers have to pay? And for which employees?

For example, my employer, bless their heart, covered half the insurance costs for a part-time employee (even one who worked more than 20 hours a week on average). But that still made MY half pretty darn expensive for somebody living on a part-time salary.

[Yo_Mama]

57. Not part-time workers

So under ACA, the incentive exists to cut as many workers as you can to below the statutory level for ACA employer mandate - 30 hours.

[denverbill]

60. Which explains my post suggesting we change the way part time workers are compensated.

If you work part-time, you get compensated proportionately.

[Yo_Mama]

65. ACA should never have contained the exemption for part-time workers

If you work a third of a week, the fine should have been 1/3rd of that for a full-time employee, if half a week, 1/2 of that for a full-time employee, etc.

What we have done with this law is clearly inflicting a great deal of damage upon the most vulnerable.

I don't really blame the companies. I blame the whole thing. We had our options. We could have shifted away from an employer-based system, but we didn't do that. We could have gone to a payroll tax for employees who had to use the exchange to get affordable coverage, but we didn't do that. Instead we pretended to take care of the problem while institutionalizing a two-class employment system, and this is now kicking millions of people in the gonads, and eventually we will all suffer for it.

[jeff47]

61. I'd rather have that

Tying healthcare to employment is insane.

If companies stop offering insurance, and the exchanges work like they are supposed to, I think we're better off. Especially because those exchanges have the most direct route to single-payer.

[hfojvt]

72. it is not even "tied to employment"

except perhaps now with ACA.

During the 1990s and until 2004, I had jobs, sometimes even full time jobs - with no health care. In order to get healthcare with your job, you had to get a GOOD job. Some people got those jobs, others were SOL. I spent the first twenty years of my work life being SOL. Okay, maybe it was only 18 and a half. From the time I quit my good job in November 1986 until I got promoted to full time work in July 2004.

Actually "only" 17.75 years.

I did work full time from February 1993 to January 1995 and that employer may have offered insurance at a cost of $400 a year or something, which, at $5.10 an hour was $400 that I did not want to pay.

[jeff47]

75. And that would be the point of reform

The "crappy" full time job I had in 2004-2005 would have required about 90% of my pay to go to their health insurance. So I didn't buy it.

The entire point of the ACA is to create a non-employment-based market for health insurance that functions.....and then have the government take that over when the "single-payer demons" fail to materialize.

[Puzzledtraveller]

29. We had our shot and we got the ACA

But's it's awesome because (D) passed it!

[denverbill]

37. Actually I don't think I've ever seen any DUer call it 'awesome', until you.

But it is better than nothing.

[Puzzledtraveller]

38. it has it's staunch defenders.

[denverbill]

44. Yes, and it has people that want it eliminated and not replaced with anything.

[progressoid]

66. Sure they do.

A quick search found a bunch. www.democraticunderground.com/1002613579 http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2299652 http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022906853 etc

But most DUers that call it awesome are doing so sarcastically.

[brush]

43. A hole money grubbing corporations always figure out a way to screw workers

It's not the fault of ACA.

The next step is to get legislation passed to prevent this crap.

We all know ACA is a stepping stone to single payer. We should also know that the repug-baggers and their paymasters are not going to just roll over without a fight.

And it'll be just as tough a fight as FDR had with all the New Deal legislation of the '30s.

[jeff47]

64. Oh please.

The ACA is step 1. There's a bunch of steps to come.

Social Security is nothing like the original law. It offers far more benefit to far more people.
Medicare is nothing like the original law. It offers far more benefit to far more people.

Guess what's going to happen to the ACA in the future?

And just to answer my question, the exchanges will end up with "government options" in the blue states. Those will be successful enough to create de-facto single-payer in those states. The right has used various boogeymen to scare the public away from single-payer, and once those fail to arrive it will be much, much easier to sell single-payer to the public at large. Which is exactly how Canada got single-payer.

[SteveG]

69. Or you could pass a law

that makes reducing a person from full time to less than 29 hours the same as laying them off, allowing the worker to go onto unemployment (at the employer's expense).

[itsrobert]

3. I would boycott, but I don't shop there to begin with.

thanks

[dixiegrrrrl]

4. For those who may not know of this company

Forever 21 is an American chain of clothing retailers with branches in major cities in the Americas, Europe, Asia, and the Middle East that offers clothing and accessories for young women, men, and teen girls.
Sells very cheap clothing, from what I saw on teh web site. ( polyester dresses, etc)

[Egalitarian Thug]

5. Gee, if only someone could have foreseen this kind of thing...

[Safetykitten]

9. I know. This is mystifying that NOBODY saw this coming. Utterly out of left field.

[Egalitarian Thug]

12. Well, you know that nobody could've predicted this.

It's an unknown unknown...

[Puzzledtraveller]

20. Seriously

and there will be more. They have a year to do this now after all.

[Safetykitten]

33. But we can boycott all these places. Everywhere, everything.

Amazing that this is the response. Boycott.

[winterpark]

6. I read this and immediately texted my daughter that she cannot shop there any longer.

I'm not sure how many more places I can boycott. I'm already boycotting Disney, Darden restaurants, regal cinemas, anything with angie harmon, fox, walmart to a certain extent and now forever 21.

[Puzzledtraveller]

18. most places are going to do this in one way shape or form

[dkf]

32. Hey you might as well tell her she can't buy clothes any more.

Only Costco or high end perhaps? Or boutiques run by owners?

[Dreamer Tatum]

36. WalMart "to a certain extent"?

Then I'd argue you're not really boycotting anything.

[winterpark]

54. There are certain things I can only get at a walmart - vs a publix. And while it may be

a partial boycott, it is still significant to my pocketbook. I pay more for groceries shopping at publix than I did at walmart and every week I was laying down at least $100 bucks in groceries and household necessities at walmart. So while you may ridicule me, I believe I am still doing my small part in keeping most of my money out of their store

[aggiesal]

56. Don't kid yourself, your still paying just as much at Walmart . . .

as any other supermarket.

Walmarts' is more insidious.

Pay more at publix, otherwise you're just supporting
Walmarts' business model of putting people on welfare.

[winterpark]

86. Yes I know about their business practices, hence my not going very often, however publix

does not carry my large detergent and softener, etc. And if I were to double up on the small ones at publix, I'd pay 3 times as much. I do what I can. I also support my local farmers market, a local produce market, and buy my meat at a privately owned local market which sources no hormone meats, grass fed beef and lots of organic and regular produce. Like I said. I do what I can when I can and according to what's in my pocket book.

[CrispyQ]

48. angie harmon

Politics aside, she is such a bad actress!

[Glimmer of Hope]

7. What a crappy thing to do.

Especially when you are on the Forbes list of top private companies. Shame on them.

Forever 21

Revenue $3.4 B As of November 2012

[link:http://www.forbes.com/companies/forever-21/|

[global1]

8. And The Director Of Human Resources For Forever 21 Didn't Even Have The Guts To Sign.....

this letter.

One thought - given the unemployment numbers and the many people still out of work - we need to re-designate what constitutes a "full-time employee" to 29.5 hours a week instead of 40 hours a week.

Don't let these corporate criminals get away with this kind of crap.

These people will not be able to afford health coverage and they've only been given 15 days to prepare. If your spouse or SO doesn't work or have alternative coverage - you're just screwed.

Something needs to be done about these types of action by employers. This is why we need 'single payer' government sponsored healthcare - or Medicare for everyone.

[Yo_Mama]

62. If you do that they will just cut to 25 hours a week

The legislation was flawed from the beginning - there should have always been a provision for the fine for part-time employees. In other words, if the fine for a full-time employee is $2,000, the fine for a part-time employee should have been $1,000.

The companies and ins cos lobbied for this, and they got what they wanted.

[HardTimes99]

10. Wow! Talk about a blatant, in-your-face 'Fuck You' to your staff. Hope what's

happened to JC Penney and Macy's in the most recent quarter happens to them as well.

[GermanDem]

11. Awful!

Not only are they losing they their healthcare and will have a lower income; what I find disgusting is that there is no single line in the letter along the lines of "We are sorry that we have to do this." The employees are disposed of as if they were cattle.

[Puzzledtraveller]

17. How could they have not seen this coming?

[MrNJ]

19. How generous of them

As a one time exception they are not stealing the accrued vacation days


*must fight the urge to go and smash their windows*

[aggiesal]

80. When I began my career, we got . . .

2 weeks vacation per year (accrued throughout the year) and we could roll over
up to 1 year of vacation. So we could have as much as 2 years on the books.
After 5 years of service that went up to 3 weeks.
After 9 years, 4 weeks, and after 14 years 5 weeks.

2 weeks sick time, instantly given on Jan. 1 each year, no matter how much
you used. So it didn't matter if you had 1 hours of sick time on 12/31 or 39 hours
on 12/31, the next day 1/1, your sick hours reset to 40 hours of sick time.

We also got 13 paid holidays. Believe it or not, Good Friday back then was a
holiday. It later changed to Spring Break.
We also got Presidents day off, sometimes 2, because we celebrated both
Washington & Lincoln's birthday.

In the state of California, Vacation is a benefit, but sick time was mandated.
So, companies had to pay you for each vacation hour you earned, and
companies would compete for top talent with better vacation benefits.

Back then, when we reached our 2 year limit, and we accrued hours that
exceeded our 2 year limit, we would not lose those hours, because
they were EARNED.
Instead the company would pay you the equivalent of the hours accrued, from
your vacation account, to free up space to put in the hours that were accrued
into your account.
So, I would never ever lose what I had earned.

**************************************************************
Fast forward to 29 years of Reaganomics, and what do we get?
3 weeks of PERSONAL TIME per year, with a maximum of 2 years on the books.
Now, if you accrue time that exceed your limit, you don't get to keep them.
"The-use-it-or-lose-it" implementation. I don't know how this is legal because
these are benefits that we've earned.

0 Sick weeks because, now sick and vacation time are rolled into Personal Time,
and maybe 10 holidays per year, if the calendar works out.

WELCOME TO REAGANOMICS. Enjoy your stay!

[dbackjon]

22. Yet they claim to be a Christian company

Printing John 3:16 on all bags


They also use sweat shops, been sued for stealing designs, requiring off the clock work

[BuddhaGirl]

23. Link to their Facebook page!

They are already hearing about this shitty move

https://www.facebook.com/Forever21?fref=ts

[RockaFowler]

35. I was going to post this as well

Lots of great comments on there

Greedy SOB's

[Generic Other]

42. Thanks

I left them an earful. Now on to corporate.

[JNelson6563]

50. Thanks for link!

I shared a thought or two.

Julie

[BuddhaGirl]

52. You're welcome!

[MarianJack]

24. This is truly and purly...

...corporate level chickenshit greed! The only way that I may feel bad for saying that is because I not only have too much respect for chickens, I have too much respect for shit!

PEACE!

[hedgehog]

25. Beat me to it!

Thanks for posting!

[BuddhaGirl]

26. Call the number on the memo 213-763-2899

and let them know what you think!!!

[Puzzledtraveller]

40. the exchanges open October 1st

They will just have to buy their own insurance. Companies got a year waiver so they have all of 2014 to dump their healthcare plans.

[Dreamer Tatum]

27. They're responding to incentives provided by legislation.

Change the law, change the behavior.

Sorry - you can boycott all you want, but you're going to end up boycotting everything at that rate.

[Safetykitten]

30. But you can. You will not have anywhere to shop, get gas, or live, but you can boycott.

[Generic Other]

28. Write to them to tell them what you think. Here's the contact

http://www.forever21.com/CustomerService/CustomerService.aspx?br=f21&content=contact

[Puzzledtraveller]

46. the teens that shop there won't care

Most parents won't care, you'll have to convince people to not work for them.

[Generic Other]

49. A great Bible verse for hypocrites

James 5:4

Hear the cries of the field workers whom you have cheated of their pay. The wages you held back cry out against you.

[KamaAina]

39. They have a location directly across from the cable car turnaround in San Francisco

ideally suited for direct action. Just sayin'.

[Chan790]

79. I really liked the idea one poster on their Facebook page had.

She wasn't going to boycott...she was going to stand outside their store nearest her on public property and hand out copies of their letter during their back-to-school sale. (I'd blow it up and put it on a sandwich board too.) If it encourages 10% of people who were going to shop there to not shop there, that will look bad. If it were replicated nationally with the same result that would be sufficient to cause them to have a [font color="red"]bad 3Q[/font]. If they don't reverse course, doing the same thing during the holidays [font color="red"]blows their fiscal year and will cause institutional investors to drop their stock and analysts to down grade their projections. [/font] A bad holiday and two bad consecutive fiscal quarters is enough for Wall St. analysts to declare you dead in that sector; margins are thin.

That gets CEOs fired while boycotts usually fail. It doesn't require a sustained effort, it just requires a brief intense effort. Cost them sales in the small handful of weeks that matter and you're doing real damage with little sustained effort.

[BuddhaGirl]

92. Yes! The other ones near me (East Bay and Marin are in malls, which I suppose are private property)

but the Market/Powell store is on a public street

[KamaAina]

93. A very public street

at any given moment, tourists from across the country and around the world are there, lined up for the cable cars.

Go for it!

edit: If you play your cards right, the cable car operators will clang their bells in solidarity with you. I remember years ago marching up Market chanting "No contra aid! No contra aid!" Then when we got to the turnaround, we heard "Ding ding da-ding! Ding ding da-ding!"

[BuddhaGirl]

94. LOL awesome story

Great suggestion!!!

[Safetykitten]

45. Well, why not write a letter to the architect of this edifice of HC...one President Obama, and thank

him?

[Puzzledtraveller]

51. The exchanges open October 1

I'm a medicaid worker and I start training next month on the application process for both the HBE's and our expanded Medicaid. These people can apply on October 1 for healthcare, since they are working they will have to buy their own. I doubt they will qualify for subsidies. Some will, many won't.They will purchase insurance from a private insurance company, no worry, we will help them do that and if they haven't done this by 2014 we will take it out of their tax refunds. So, no need to worry.

[Skeeter Barnes]

58. Take it out of their tax refunds?

[Puzzledtraveller]

63. the penalty for not having insurance could be assessed on tax refunds

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/13/readers-ask-we-answer-what-happens-if-you-dont-pay-obamacares-tax-penalty/

If an individual does not carry insurance coverage and does not have exemptions, that’s where a tax penalty could come into play. In 2014, the health law includes a $95 penalty for not carrying health insurance. This penalty is administered by the Internal Revenue Service through the tax return system. In order to collect, the IRS will typically dock that amount from an individual’s tax return.

[Skeeter Barnes]

74. What are people looking at paying out of pocket for the insurance, co pays, deductibles?

What about a person that is out of work for a year or more?

[Skeeter Barnes]

95. Is there any potential for these insurance policies to be prohibitively expensive to actually use?

[dem in texas]

47. Going Shopping with my teenage granddaughter next Tuesday

We are going for our annual back to school shopping trip at Northpark Mall in Dallas. Avery likes to go to the big F21 store, but my dollars will not be spent there anymore. This letter is heart breaking and will create severe hardships on the people who are already having the hardest time getting by. The bad thing about it is so many large chains are doing the same thing. I saw an interview on PBS news of a man who worked for Subway and he was getting cut back to 29 hours and losing his medical insurance. I wish someone would publish the names of all the chains that are doing this, so we, the consumers, can boycott them.

[Generic Other]

55. Companies getting bad press for doing this

John Metz' Denny's and Hurricane Grill and Wings (40 in Florida) made a similar announcement and the Dennys CEO quickly announced he did not speak for the parent company.

Olive Garden and Red Lobster saw a 37% decline in business after their announcement. They reversed as a result.

Jimmy Johns already mostly using part time people have stated they will cut hours so as not to be eligible for healthcare.

AAA cut 500 of their employees to half-time.

Hardee's and Carl, Jr. also plan to cut hours.

Pillar Hotels and Resorts has walked back on earlier announcements that they would hire only part-time workers.

Papa John's found out that boycotts are effective. A very vocal opponent of ACA, the loss of business had an effect. “...we have no plans to cut team hours as a result of the Affordable Care Act” said their CEO after weeks of petulant threats.

Applebee's changed their mind too. “It’s the law of the land and we’re doing exactly what we need to do,”

Taco Bell franchises in OKlahoma.

Regal Entertainment Group whose CEO earns $750,000 per year to cut hours.

<snip>But there’s currently a bill in the California legislature that could bring such employers to heel. California Assembly Bill 880 would fine large companies (those with 500 or more workers) up to $6,000 for every employee on Medicaid. The law is specifically designed to discourage companies like, say, Regal Entertainment from executing employment policies that force the state to subsidize their low-wage employment strategies. The Los Angeles Times reports that “firms would face fines based on 110% of the average cost of health insurance for every employee who is enrolled in Medi-Cal and works more than eight hours a week.”<snip>

Guess Walmart will have to stop helping their employees file for medicaid gratis the American taxpayer.


http://www.alternet.org/labor/companies-threaten-cut-hours?page=0%2C0

[AgingAmerican]

53. The new Republican/corporate business model

nt

[BrotherIvan]

59. We'll see if Americans care about workers over cheap goods

In the case of fashion, your reputation is the only thing that separates you from your competitors who also peddle crap. So once that is gone, it's gone.

Perhaps, if more people see what is happening, single payer can become a reality. I still don't understand why all corps aren't demanding it.

[The CCC]

67. Forever 21 letter to all full time/non-management employees

Nation wide boycott of Forever 21. Drive them out of business.

[nolabear]

68. Link somewhere so I can spread this around?

[valerief]

70. I never heard of them but I found this on

Wikipedia:

On August 15, 2013, a letter apparently sent to all non-management full time employees appeared on Forever 21's facebook page stating that effective August 18, 2013 all full-time, permanent, non-management employees would be "demoted" to parttime status with hours not to exceed 29.5 hours and would lose all benefits granted to fulltime staff.

[TxDemChem]

71. I've never shopped there before,

And sure as hell won't now. My boycott list is getting mighty long.

[tomm2thumbs]

73. I'm sure their employees will treat customers accordingly

Talk about a way to deeply stab your own company in the gut by pretending it is a good business decision to treat employees like filth... and THEN, to expect women, who especially know the importance of health care, to continue to spend money at that company as customers.

Having the word 'Forever' in their name is ironic for a company doing everything in its power to undo it's own existence.

Contact information:
http://www.forever21.com/CustomerService/CustomerService.aspx?br=f21&content=contact

[Safetykitten]

76. Many people posted on this very type of action MONTHS ago...

And THEY WORKED in the stores/companies that were doing it. I posted that my company and my friend who is at a phone center was doing this a long time ago. Are you going to boycott a phone center? Are you going to stop going to go to every big box that exists?

We said this would happen. It is happening. We either subsidize the poor people in these horrible situations that lose their full time status or do what California will be doing. It does not hurt to letter write, but this will become epidemic and the law needs to be changed.

[Puzzledtraveller]

78. ^^this^^

[on point]

77. Another business to boycott. Time for single payer, or benefits paid by hr

Take away this game employers are using

[KG]

81. ACA is a clusterfuck.

[Safetykitten]

83. Of course it is. It was from the begining, but the apologists are not around, and have insurance...

anyway. Only when the water line of this debacle gets to them will they get it. 2014 will be rife with this.

[liberal N proud]

82. Sounds like what many companies are doing silently

Many are doing this very thing and just have not had the guts to publish it in writing.

It is going to take a massive worker strike, at every level to wake this country up and stop these oligarchs from abusing their employees.

[davidn3600]

84. Yep. Lots of companies are doing this

They will do whatever helps the bottom line. They never care about the employees. No loyalty to workers but expect full loyalty in return.

[Safetykitten]

85. It's a vicious circle. The companies want you to be available at all times for them part-time.

This effectively locks you into being on call for a part-time job. But as many here do not have that experience, this concept is lost on them. "Why not get two jobs?"

[Dawson Leery]

87. Use your dollars, boycott/reject this company

Also, do not be surprised that a "Christian" company is doing this. People who wear religious on their sleeves are ALWAYS full of s**t!

[sarisataka]

88. Well this makes it all better

Thank you for reaching out to us ****. Forever 21, like all retailers, staffs its stores based on projected store sales, completely independent of the Affordable Care Act. After a recent evaluation, Forever 21 realigned its staffing needs to better reflect sales expectations. This realignment impacted less than 1% of all U.S. store employees. Forever 21 values all of its employees and made every effort to affect as few employees as possible in this realignment.

[SummerSnow]

89. Of course they will blame Obamacare

[Go Vols]

90. yep

[justiceischeap]

91. Sounds like they're going with the Gap business model

Gap hires the majority of employees as part-timers. You get a couple of 2-3 hour shifts a day, then they expect you in super early on Sunday's to straighten the stock in the back room (which counts as part of your 2-3 hours a week). Then you're required to buy their clothes without an employee discount (cause only full-timers get that).

[AzDon]

96. Part-Time tactic probably wont work

New Here, Hi!
I had a small businessman tell me recently that he'd hafta go out of business because the fines for not insuring his two employees was going to bankrupt him! I did a little research, found this excellent primer on the subject from NFIB and printed it, and gave him a copy. He was so invested in believing that Obamacare would bankrupt him, that he wanted to argue!
Anyway, here's the NFIB explanation of employer penalties:
http://www.nfib.com/portals/0/pdf/allusers/free%20rider%20provision.pdf

The way I read this, If Forever21 has even one employee making less than 400% of poverty that applies for govt premium assistance at the govt exchange and receives it, Forever21 will be fined FOR EACH EMPLOYEE THAT COULD RECEIVE THE SAME ASSISTANCE!
Also, every 120 labor hours/mo constitutes a full time position even if it's split between employees.
It's hard to beleive that a retailer would so boldly send out such a cold-hearted letter expressing willingness to screw their employees using a tactic that probably won't work!

[MNBrewer]

97. What a Christ-centered company....

[WinkyDink]

98. Employers should not be responsible for the health-care of American citizens. THE FEDERAL GOVT

SHOULD BE.

AND OUR TAXES SHOULD ALREADY BE ABLE TO PAY FOR SUCH CARE.

OH, I'M SORRY. DID THE PENTAGON JUST SAY SOMETHING?