The Missouri NAACP claims the Obama rodeo clown act was a hate crime

[cali]

and they lose me there and with the demand that the DoJ and Secret Service investigate.

Yes, it was racist crap. No, it wasn't a crime even if Missouri state dollars help fund the State Fair. I mean what the hell?

The President of the Missouri Chapter of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) says a rodeo clown act depicting President Barack Obama at the Missouri State Fair Saturday night was a hate crime.

“I think that a hate crime occurred,” Mary Ratliff told KXNT Radio in Las Vegas Thursday. ”I think a hate crime occurs when you use a person’s race to depict who they are and to make degrading comments, gestures, et cetera, against them.”

<snip>

Ratliff says that is why her organization is asking the Department of Justice to conduct an investigation. She has also asked the Secret Service to investigate the incident in Sedalia.

“With all of the hateful and mean things that are happening and happened in Missouri here at the rodeo, we believe that the Justice Department should look into the discriminatory practices against our sitting African-American president,” Ratliff added. “In this country, discrimination is still illegal.”

<snip>

http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/08/15/head-of-n-a-a-c-p-in-missouri-calls-obama-clown-mask-stunt-a-hate-crime/

Sorry, Ms. Ratcliff is an idiot who doesn't have a clue what the first amendment protects. This was an ugly stunt and the idiot clown has been banned for life from the State Fair. The announcer who is a Superintendent of Schools for some county is under investigation. That seems about right.

[clarice]

1. I've thought a lot about this...

and I just don't see what all of the fuss is about. Haven't we
been "parodying" political figures for years?

[cali]

3. Much of the reaction is about the racist aspects and the crowd

[Safetykitten]

5. So the crowd has no free speech? Just goingthe other direction...ideas you know.

[cali]

6. Is anyone suggesting they don't?

I'm just explaining why there's been such a reaction.

[clarice]

7. Was it racist when Eddie Murphy parodied Mr. Rogers? nt

[cali]

9. huh? could you explain why you're comparing the two?

[Safetykitten]

11. Why would you be asking, you are the one with the "no biggie" on the hate thing.

[clarice]

13. Because this is still a free Country. nt

[cali]

50. bzzzt. Fail, kitten.

I made it clear that I find the acts of the rodeo clown and announcer and the reaction of the crowd, ugly, racist and disturbing.

Stating that it doesn't rise to being a hate crime is NOT, kitten, saying it's "no biggie". please, please, try to think.

[clarice]

12. I was simply stating that one could find racism...

anywhere if you look hard enuff. The Eddie Murphy reference
was a silly example of that.

[Safetykitten]

2. Free speech.

[Puzzledtraveller]

4. I agree with your assessment Cali.

[Safetykitten]

8. Actually in truth, it is a hate crime. By one rodeo clown. Racist pure and simple.

If you don't get that....

[clarice]

14. Actually, it is in YOUR view. nt

[cali]

16. no it's not. try and grasp what the law says is a hate crime.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Shepard_and_James_Byrd,_Jr._Hate_Crimes_Prevention_Act

I guarantee you that the DoJ won't touch this with a 1,000 foot pole. Not a single federal prosecutor would bring charges for this. I don't know what Missouri state laws are, but I'll bet that this doesn't stand a chance of being prosecuted.

Was the clown intent on inciting violence against President Obama or African Americans? Good luck finding evidence for that.

Did his act lead to anyone being harmed?

Pure and simple, your claim that this was a crime is garbage.

[Safetykitten]

29. You think the person bringing it up is and "idiot" for bringing it up.

[LordGlenconner]

39. Make up your mind

IN one post you say it's free speech. In another it's a hate crime. Say what you mean.

[kelly1mm]

70. You do know that it is generally not against the law to be a racist, right? For

something to be a "hate crime" you generally need two things 1) a crime (like assault) and 2) be able to prove that the underlying crime was motivated be racial animus of the perpetrator.

So, what was the underlying crime here?????????

[Bake]

78. Racist, yes. Crime, hardly.

Calling it a hate crime is way over the top and just weakens your case.

Bake

[1awake]

10. What about the one who wore a Hillary mask? n/t

[Safetykitten]

15. Why are these ideas, opinions and things even being discussed?

Why is this allowed? Some people think it was racist, some not. Some think it was satire, some think it is something else. But by all means if a person does not like it, hide it.

[cali]

17. wah, wah, wah. You can't frickin' figure out why it's allowed?

It's allowed because it doesn't violate any DU rules.

bitter much?

[Safetykitten]

18. This post promotes racism, as you find no racism there. I will alert.

[Boom Sound 416]

20. This post is anything but the promotion of racism

[cali]

22. which post promotes racism?

do explain how you find racism in ANY post of mine. EVER.

alert away. I'm sure it's not retaliation.

[Safetykitten]

25. "Sorry, Ms. Ratcliff is an idiot who doesn't have a clue "

[cali]

33. Seriously? You think that's racist?

Explain what's racist about it. Are you suggesting that it's racist to say someone who is African American is an idiot? That's been said here thousands of times. Do you actually believe that idiocy is only the purview of those who are Caucasian? Ever hear of Alan West? Clarence Thomas ring any bells, kitten? How about that fucking moron, Reverend Manning?

Go ahead, explain to all of us how that statement was racist.

[Safetykitten]

42. In this case yes. This is a serious charge. Your casual "idiot" is mocking racist and patronizing,

as is your words above.

[cali]

47. that would be "as are" not "as is"

Sorry, kitten, but there's nothing remotely racist about my calling Ms. Ratcliff an idiot. YOUR claim is rooted in anger and vindictiveness.

funny how YOU are the only person, kitten, in the thread making that bullshit, disgusting accusation.

[Safetykitten]

52. And everyone here agrees with you? The entire DU spectrum?

[joeglow3]

53. I do.

[cali]

57. Did I say anything of the kind, kitten? Of course not.

I pointed out that no one in this thread but YOU is accusing me of racism. It's disgusting and lame, but oh so fitting as it comes from YOU.

[Safetykitten]

58. Racism can be sublime, generally speaking.

[cali]

62. No it cannot. That's patently absurd.

sub·lime (s-blm)
adj.
1. Characterized by nobility; majestic.
2.
a. Of high spiritual, moral, or intellectual worth.
b. Not to be excelled; supreme.
3. Inspiring awe; impressive.
4. Archaic Raised aloft; set high.
5. Obsolete Of lofty appearance or bearing; haughty: "not terrible,/That I should fear . . . /But solemn and sublime" (John Milton).

[Safetykitten]

63. You just defined yourself and your position, Yes.

[cali]

64. ok, you're off the boards so completely

that you aren't making any sense. You're just embarrassing yourself.

I get it. You're pissed at me because I did something you think is unfair. Fine, but running around calling me a racist, a ridiculous and totally bullshit charge, isn't going to change a thing.

I'm done. Not that I don't engage in "stooping to conquer"- I do it too often- but this is just silly and fruitless.

Carry on if you wish. Good luck to you.

[Safetykitten]

66. That you call an African American an idiot, because THEY have the "idiotic" idea

that what they saw was a hate crime is not WHAT YOU THINK, is quite a feat.

You have standards. Well, keep them to yourself you can't take the heat. You don't like posts that blame certain politicians for certain things that are measurable...unemployment, economy, things like that...

But you have no fucking problem saying someone from the NAACP is an "idiot" for what they THINK! Which they have every right to think. And the part that is priceless. It was a rodeo clown with a President Obama mask and a broom stick in the clowns ass!

[kelly1mm]

71. And what is the crime in that? There was no CRIME!!! There may be hate, but no crime. You need

to have an underlying crime for there to be a hate crime. That is what people are calling her an idiot for. She does not seem to grasp that simple fact and that is what is idiotic.

[tularetom]

19. I think we're going a bit overboard here

The clown has been fired for his tasteless and offensive stunt. You can't do anything about the assholes who laughed and cheered for it.

It was crude and racist but it wasn't any kind of a crime, let alone a hate crime.

Yes, I was as offended as the next guy, but IMO the message was received. There's plenty of real hate crimes to get pissed off about without making one up. This kind of crying wolf lets people ignore the real problems.

[Boom Sound 416]

21. !!

[theHandpuppet]

23. Racist? Hell yes. Hate crime? I have to say no.

This is an instance where I have to say that no matter how racist, vulgar and offensive -- both the act AND the crowd -- this simply does not qualify as a crime and ergo, not a hate crime. I fear to pursue this as a hate crime will diminish the credibility of those seeking to prosecute the many genuine hate crimes that take place across our country every day.

[limpyhobbler]

24. People should be allowed to mock Presidents without fear of investigation.

All Presidents are clowns.

[Safetykitten]

26. Stay on that line if you can. Mock or question?

[limpyhobbler]

32. huh? both. of course.

I don't really know the details of the rodeo incident.

There had to be some racism mixed in there. But we shouldn't censor mocking Presidents at rodeos just because some racists are also there gettin' their hate on.

There are racists gettin' their hate on right on the floor of the Republican National Convention, and we don't censor that.

[Safetykitten]

37. So no censoring of mocking Presidents?

[limpyhobbler]

40. Of course not. This is America not Saudi Arabia. Mocking politicians is a national tradition.

[Safetykitten]

45. Talking about them, blaming them?

[geek tragedy]

80. racist hate speech at taxpayer funded and sponsored events is never acceptable.

That kind of stuff should be censored and forbidden on the part of those conducting the fair.

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. No censoring of mocking Presidents. Ever.

[Safetykitten]

46. Anywhere?

[Safetykitten]

49. So if I post a picture of the clown with a broomstick, that's not an issue?

[cherokeeprogressive]

54. A clown with a broomstick has what to do with mocking a President?

I'm not getting you. Mockery in and of itself is protected speech no matter who it mocks. Politicians SHOULD be mocked. All of them.

[cali]

59. that picture has been posted, kitten- as an illustration of the ugly

racist stunt at the Missouri State Fair rodeo.

Now if you posted that picture with a comment about how funny you thought it was, yes, that would be an issue here.

[cherokeeprogressive]

51. Anywhere

[Safetykitten]

61. Even here? On DU?

[geek tragedy]

81. It's not censorship when it's a taxpayer funded and sponsored event.

When you speak on behalf of the state/government, you lose the right to engage in racist hate speech. QED.

[oldhippie]

82. Yeah, that only fair .....

.... nobody here ever mocked Bush.

[leftynyc]

27. Calling this a hate crime is a mistake

and minimizes crimes that are actual hate crimes. The clown got fired - that was appropriate. We cannot control the actions of the crowd - being an asshole is not a hate crime and the NAACP is shooting themselves in the foot by claiming otherwise.

[Safetykitten]

31. Hmmm...people bring up points about race...not good.

[leftynyc]

35. I have no idea what

point you're trying to make. The person responsible was fired - what more do you want?

[cali]

36. what??!! Are you actually saying it's "not good" to discuss race, kitten?

[Safetykitten]

38. Of course. Because YOUR opinion is that the person that called it a hate crime is an idiot. So case

closed. We have to agree here correct? Isn't that the process?

[cali]

44. Nope don't have to agree and fuck no, the case isn't closed because YOU claim it is.

not even close to being closed, kitten.

Alert on my post if it's racist and let a jury decide, kitten. Ok, kitten?

[Safetykitten]

48. You have no issue calling a African American with a valid claim an "idiot"

And see no issue.

I say Obama is to blame for our economy, and a post is vaporized.

A clown with an Obama mask has a broom stick inserted in his ass, and people here think its bad but....

I say that Obama is to blame for our economy.

You don't do open ideas well. Or getting the point.

[cali]

56. get over it.

she doesn't have a valid claim, that's my point.

You don't have a clue, a valid point at all, and you're motivated by obvious vindictiveness.

Lame. And that's being kind about it.

[Safetykitten]

60. Maybe you should get over some things.

[oldhippie]

83. Kitty, seriously .....

.... you've dug yourself into a hole and you are covering yourself up.

I'm a fairly tolerant guy, but I think you are becoming embarrassing to the site.

[kelly1mm]

72. It is NOT a valid claim. That is where she (and I assume you) fail. There is NO CRIME here. Hense

no hate crime.

[theHandpuppet]

68. Unfortunate as it may seem, even racist bigots have a right to free speech

I agree with you that this does not qualify as a hate crime. If vile, bigoted speech (or even a demonstration) were a hate crime, Fred Phelps and his despicable brood would have been in jail long ago. So would most of the people working for Faux News, not to mention Rush Limbaugh. There are even men of the cloth who have called for the internment or death of gays.
There are instances were hate speech might be considered a crime -- inciting a riot, something of that nature. It can get a bit tricky due to the way the federal laws are written. I do believe that some religious leaders in this country have crossed the line but they manage to hide behind the cloak of their religious beliefs.
From a purely practical standpoint, I would rather not see limited resources directed at pursuing what happened in Missouri as a hate crime. There are people in this country who, on a daily basis, are being threatened, beaten, intimidated, even killed for the color of their skin, for being GLBT, for their gender. If anyone thinks it will be legally difficult to charge Zimmermann with a hate crime, how much of a chance would this case have? None.

[Demo_Chris]

28. Ludicrous. nt

[Sunlei]

30. It made me feel terrible and felt like a hate crime. GOOD let the DOJ do what we pay them for.

And fire that screaming announcer, the dumbass school superintendent. What kind of adult example is he for all the kids?

You noticed that clown didn't even make a statement yet.

I doubt the mask or suit jacket and School superintendent kkk announcer was the clowns, personal idea.

Those rodeos have a 'rodeo board' who set the agenda for the show.

[Safetykitten]

34. Yes, I agree, like the clown suddenly had an Obama mask and the announcer was freestyling.

[cali]

41. It made me feel terrible too. I found the account by the

guy who was there with the foreign student heartbreaking. That doesn't make it a hate crime. The DoJ won't touch this. Rightfully so. It doesn't meet the federal law requirements.

The School Superintendent is being investigated and I agree that he sets a very poor example.

This was a racist stunt. It was ugly. It did not rise to being a hate crime.

The first amendment protects speech even ugly hateful speech. I agree with the late SC Justice, Louis Brandeis:

If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the process of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."

[kelly1mm]

74. Ummm, what? You think it is a crime for you to feel terrible? Really? What crime was committed for

there to be a possible hate crime? The hate crime statute is pretty clear - 1) you need an underlying crime (like assault) and 2) it has to have been motivated by racial animus. What crime was there here?

[markiv]

55. A poor use of political capital

I think they'd call it a hate crime if you called the NAACP's board 'colored people'

bad precidents are always set by the most sympathetic cases

i agree with the others here, that the precident would be a chill on criticism of all future presidents

other countries can get you jailed for that - we dont want to go down that road

[tridim]

65. Pure hate and racism, but not a crime. nt

[bullwinkle428]

67. Um, correct me if I'm wrong Ms. Ratliff, but doesn't an actual CRIME have to

take place in order for something to be considered a possible hate crime? The rodeo clown act was incredibly tasteless with a side helping of racism, but I'm still looking for the criminal act part of it.

Certainly the James Byrd and Matthew Shepherd murders are the ultimate benchmarks for the true definition of "hate crime", but that term can also be used for any kind of assault or even property destruction (like a cross-burning) against someone or group for who they are, simply for the purpose of intimidating every other member of that group. BUT A CRIME STILL HAS TO TAKE PLACE!

[CBGLuthier]

75. You ARE wrong

If I go up to a person of color and start calling them derogatory names based on their ethnicity I have committed a hate crime. I do not have to hit them. I do not have to hurt them physically.

The HATE is the fucking CRIME. get it? No, I don't imagine you would.

[kelly1mm]

76. Got a link for that claim? Every hate crime statute I have read (both state and federal) calls for

two elements for the crime to be a hate crime. 1) an underlying crime (like assault) and 2) the underlying crime was motivated by the racial animus of the perpetrator.

There is a link above to the federal hate crimes law which has my version (saying there must be a underlying crime). Do you have a link supporting your version?

[cali]

77. cite the statute under which that is a crime.

no, hate itself whatever it's based on is not a crime. It's deplorable but it's not a crime in this country. In certain European countries it is a crime. For instance, this celebrated case:

A Paris court has found British fashion designer John Galliano guilty of hate crimes for publicly uttering anti-Semitic and racist slurs, officials said.

People.com reported the 50-year-old celebrity stylist, who was fired from the Dior fashion house after his arrest in February, was fined $8,500 in the case Thursday, but won't have to pay it as long as he is not found guilty of any crime in France for five years.

He also was ordered to pay court costs and one symbolic euro each to the people he offended when he went on drunken tirades during two separate incidents in the same Paris cafe, People.com said.

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Entertainment_News/2011/09/08/Galliano-fined-for-hate-crimes/UPI-15681315499917/#ixzz2cA7MGDLj

In the U.S. what he did is not something that can be prosecuted in any state or under federal laws.

quite simply, you're wrong about what constitutes a hate crime.

[Lee-Lee]

84. You are totally wrong here

So no, nobody else will get it.

Hate crimes are typical add-ons or enhancements to existing crimes when it can be proven they were motivated by hate.

Just calling somebody racist names isn't a hate crime.

Doing it while beating them with a club is.

[Lee-Lee]

69. How to lose credibility with people 101

Make claims that are as stupid as this.

Stupid and racist sure. Most everybody will agree.

A crime deserving prosecution, much less Federal prosecution? You just lost all those people, and made them think you are radical and out of touch.

[David Krout]

73. The prosecutor will have a heck of a hard time proving "Hate crime"

On this one.