Egypt's 'Day of Rage' turns violent, dozens of protesters killed

[Eugene]

Source: Reuters

Egypt's 'Day of Rage' turns violent, dozens of protesters killed

By Tom Perry and Alexander Dziadosz
CAIRO | Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:02pm EDT

(Reuters) - Muslim Brotherhood protests plunged into violence across Egypt on Friday, with around 50 killed in Cairo alone on a "Day of Rage" called by Islamist followers of ousted President Mohamed Mursi to denounce a police crackdown.

Automatic gunfire echoed across Cairo and black smoke billowed from the capital's huge Ramses Square, a military helicopter hovering low overhead looking down on the chaos.

A Reuters witness saw the bodies of 27 people, apparently hit by gunfire and birdshot, wrapped in white sheets in a mosque. A Reuters photographer said security forces opened fire from numerous directions when a police station was attacked.

At least 20 people died in clashes elsewhere in Egypt.

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Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/us-egypt-protests-idUSBRE97C09A20130816

[clarice]

1. I'm always amazed when articles like this....

get no response from other DUer's

[hfojvt]

9. it's kinda more amazing

that we are more concerned about Egypt than we are about our own healthcare system.

Maybe because we are largely a group that has good insurance.

edit: oh look, I got 3 whole replies trying to start a discussion about healthcare.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023465891

Of course, it might help if 65 star members did not have me on ignore.

[clarice]

13. Sorry, I'm kinda new...

First, what is a "star member"? Second, why do "they" have you on ignore? Third, why don't "they" want to talk about health care?
Seems kind of important to me.

[hfojvt]

15. star members are paid members

they may have me on ignore for any number of reasons.

Most likely they read one or more of my posts and said to themself "what a frigging idiot, I am putting this moron on ignore" or perhaps they even got into an argument with me an insults were exchanged or snark was employed and then they said "what a dickwad, I am putting him on ignore".

Sad but true, and with one or two likely causes

1) my own writing is not effective in persuading people
2) some people do not like to hear points of view that differ from their own - it scares, disgusts or angers them.
3) some combination of the two above.

As for why they do not want to discuss healthcare. EOR explains it thusly.

"People come and go in this Forest, and they say 'it's only Eeyore, so it doesn't count.'"

Perhaps they see the title, or the author and think "I am not gonna read this OP".

In any case, my OP seems to have less views, and certainly fewer replies than the one line OP which says "what if the hokey pokey really IS what it is all about?"

But an OP which requires no effort, and no thought and allows the responders to simply make clever wisecracks is bound to be more popular - even with me.

All I can do is try.

[clarice]

16. Thanks....BTW

I was the one who posted the Hokey Pokey thread. I knew that it was silly, but there was soooo much bad news that day, I just felt like lightening things up.

[hfojvt]

17. now THAT

was irony.

[clarice]

18. How so? Did I miss it? nt

[hfojvt]

23. what are the odds

that I would complain about a thread, and just heppen to be complaining to the very person who started said thread.

Well, it does not seem to fit either of the Oxford Desk Dictionary's definitions of irony, the first of which conflates irony with sarcasm just like the TA of my literature class.

Still I find that circumstance to be ironic.

In a humorous sort of way. Like I just walked right into a pie in the face.

[clarice]

28. LOL...... no worries mate. nt

[Comrade Grumpy]

2. The response of the US government has been pathetic.

Where is the "red line" in Egypt, Mr. Obama?

US law requires us to cut assistance to countries that have undergone coups, not to play mealy-mouthed semantic games about whether a coup is a coup or not.

The red line in Egypt has been drawn with the blood of hundreds, and the generals have stepped far beyond it.

[dipsydoodle]

5. Current death total since the coup is +1000

and that may be well understated. Morgues are full which means death certificates cannot be issued if nothing else to keep a tally.

I'm assuming the US will wait until the death toll reaches something in excess of the subsequent levels in Chile after 9/11/73 ,
c. 7000 to which the US contributed by involvement in the deposing of a Salvador Allende the democratically head of state , before they class it as a coup.

Meanwhile , back on the ranch , the UK, France and Germany are meeting for preliminary discussions on the EU ending aid to Egypt. Brings me hope when I can see some of our politicians are a full shilling.

[dipsydoodle]

3. In Cairo there were issues on a bridge

with the protestors boxed in by machine guns at one end and teargas at the other.

The death count is difficult to tally. The morgues are full up and without entry to a morgue a death certificate cannot be issued. Seems to be a case for the Red Cross to set up temporary morgues there.

The military are now issuing permits to journalists in an attempt to control what is published.

The military have also said that any remaining in the square after nightfall when curfew starts, quite soon now, will be shot as terrorists. Whether the military will actually allow them to leave the square is a different matter.

Not sure about the US but here in the UK we've had running coverage since prayers ended there and the protest began 5 or so hours ago on Sky, BBC , Al Jazeera and France 24.

[clarice]

4. So what's the answer to this mess? nt

[dipsydoodle]

6. Were it not for Wednesday's events

there might have been some remote hope of reconciliation. Not now though. Keeping Morsi locked up certainly isn't helping.

Steps are already in motion in London to take the Egyptian Military to the Hague.

[clarice]

7. I'm with you. I see very few hopeful signs. nt

[hfojvt]

8. quelle surprise

Who would ever expect a "day of rage" to "turn violent"?

The way I see it "don't start nothing and there won't be nothing."

[clarice]

10. Irony much ? NT

[hfojvt]

11. nope

I don't even own an iron.

[clarice]

14. Sorry, I didn't mean that YOU were being ironic...

I meant the whole "day of rage" thing.

[Comrade Grumpy]

20. Yes, just kowtow to your military overlords and everything will be hunky-dory.

So what if they've just murdered a thousand people or so...for demonstrating for the restoration of democracy?

[hfojvt]

22. demonstrating is one thing

camping for six weeks is another.

"Egypt's new government refused to back down, criticizing elements of the protest movement and specifically ordering them to leave two spots where they'd been gathering in Cairo for six weeks, or else they'd force them out."


The right of an obnoxious minority to disrupt society is not absolute. Go home, and protest another day, another way.

[Igel]

24. I could have sworn that if a government fired on its own people it would lose legitimacy.

That's what we were told by President Obama. When there were protestors and Assad's men fired on them, his government lost legitimacy and should be treated as a pariah. It's utterly immoral to fire on your own people when they're just exercising a human right--the freedom to assembly peacefully and speak.

Our current President, however, seems to think that killing protestors is just part of a democratic transition.

So hard to know when the democratic thing is to kill protestors and when the democratic thing is to let them protest.

Maybe it's only okay when they're conservative Muslims?

Or maybe it's only bad to kill liberals? But then again, a lot of liberal dissidents were mixed in with the conservative Muslims yesterday, so that can't be it.

Hard to know when massacring innocents is good and when its is bad, when they're wrong to daring to assemble and speak and when, well, they should know better than to assemble and speak so they deserve all the lead they can eat. Too bad the current president lacks the moral clarity of President Obama. I mean, he even gave a really powerful speech in Cairo.

That does not lessen my commitment, however, to governments that reflect the will of the people. Each nation gives life to this principle in its own way, grounded in the traditions of its own people. America does not presume to know what is best for everyone, just as we would not presume to pick the outcome of a peaceful election. But I do have an unyielding belief that all people yearn for certain things: the ability to speak your mind and have a say in how you are governed; confidence in the rule of law and the equal administration of justice; government that is transparent and doesn't steal from the people; the freedom to live as you choose. These are not just American ideas; they are human rights. And that is why we will support them everywhere. (Applause.)
Now, there is no straight line to realize this promise. But this much is clear: Governments that protect these rights are ultimately more stable, successful and secure. Suppressing ideas never succeeds in making them go away. America respects the right of all peaceful and law-abiding voices to be heard around the world, even if we disagree with them. And we will welcome all elected, peaceful governments -- provided they govern with respect for all their people.
This last point is important because there are some who advocate for democracy only when they're out of power; once in power, they are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others. (Applause.) So no matter where it takes hold, government of the people and by the people sets a single standard for all who would hold power: You must maintain your power through consent, not coercion; you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy.

I must have missed the 2012 election.

[Comrade Grumpy]

19. A stupid stupid

comment

[Blaspherian]

21. Thanks chump

[NYC_SKP]

27. I won't miss you, Blaspherian.

[NuclearDem]

26. Wow, that's not something I would've expected to read on FR or anything

[typeviic]

25. Remember the right wing...

Carnival barkers in the media during the build up to GWB's Iraq invasion and occupation? All you heard was; "Well,...we have to go in there because he (Saddam/Iraq Gov) was/is killing his own people".