It's all hype

[ProSense]

With every report, it's: "OMG Obama lied."

It's all designed to show that Snowden's leak was the most important thing in our lives.

It's hype.

That's is why not a single Senator has demanded the establishment of a new Church Committee or called for an independent investigation.

With every report, the reaction is: That's why we need the reforms proposed, and those calls go ignored.

Waiting for the next hype.

In fact, of all the things reported today, it's interesting that Diane Feinstein's statement (http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023473058) seems to track closely with details in Charlie Savage's report (posted here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023471576)

[cantbeserious]

1. Speak For Yourself - Many Do Not Agree - Including Me

eom

[Just Saying]

34. Don't we all speak for ourselves here?

[cantbeserious]

37. Not Necessarily When The Topic Is Domestic Surveillance And The 4th Amendment

eom

[Just Saying]

39. Not sure what that answer means

But this is just a message board. It's not that serious.

[cantbeserious]

42. Desecration Of The 4th Amendment Is Very Serious To Many

eom

[Just Saying]

45. Now you're just being intentionally obtuse.

Our Constitution is important. Posts on a message board not so much.

[cantbeserious]

49. Thank You For Impugning My Character - Behavior Noted

eom

[Just Saying]

50. I did no such thing.

Waste of my time trying to get you to actually say something noted.

[cantbeserious]

52. Oh But It Is Just A Message Board - Are You Sure

eom

[Just Saying]

53. Yes.

eom

[cantbeserious]

54. Enjoy Your Illusions

eom

[Just Saying]

55. Will do.

eom

[whatchamacallit]

2. Lol!

"I'm melting, melting..."

[bvar22]

84. LOL.

Perfect.
Just perfect.

[Mojorabbit]

153. + a gazillion. LOL nt

[bhikkhu]

3. I agree; the bipartisan senate committee has much more to do with it than Obama

and if it leads to a greater awareness of how things actually work, and to some reform of the process where it needs reform, then its all good. A little sunshine on the issue is welcome, but simply using it as another tactic for Obama-bashing serves no purpose.

[Logical]

4. The ass-kicking you are taking on this topic is amazing. Your desperation to turn it around is....

interesting to watch.

[ProSense]

7. I guess, this new talking point of yours "ass-kicking"

is to make you feel better about this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023393947#post3

[Logical]

10. It is funny. Every day more and more bad NSA crap comes out and you keep trying to.....

make it sound like the NSA is no problem and Snowden has nothing to do with it.

LOL, what do you admit you are wrong? Ever?

[ProSense]

19. Yeah,

"LOL, what do you admit you are wrong? Ever?"

...when there is proof that isn't simply hype or an investigation concludes that the President lied.

Until then, collecting metadata isn't illegal.

It's explicitly illegal to spy on Americans. The collection of metadata is not illegal.

Trying to hype compliance issues and the minimization procedures as illegal spying is absurd.

[Logical]

23. LOL, I still think you are just fucking with us. n-t

[ProSense]

24. No, I wouldn't want to set you off, past history and all. n/t

[Logical]

28. You getting defensive! I love it. The more shit that comes out about the NSA has to be driving...

you insane!

[sheshe2]

117. I thought it wasn't about Snowed-In anymore!!!!!????

It is about him then it's not. Then it is, then it's not, then it is~~~~

Yikes! When do you ever admit it is wrong???!

eom

[freshwest]

44. ProSense? What DUer doesn't care about how unfair sentencing ruins lives?

Liberals do care about such issues, this is basic human rights. Not going to get into that thread, but thanks for linking here and for kicking it over there.

Even though I still didn't see the thread earlier. Are you adding these OPs to your Journal?

I hope you are, if so, I'll subscribe to access your fact based posts here for references. TIA.

[Cha]

164. Isn't he crossing the line again.. talking about your "ass" now, PS?

His fucking stalker, bully mentality is demented. I wish Skinner would read this. I don't think he would take too kindly to all the obessiveness that this poster(among many) has about you.

You're a inspiraton for strong Women to stand up to that shit, girl.

[DevonRex]

31. No. She is exactly right.

I feel very sorry for everyone who doesn't get it, those who have genuinely been duped by all the hype. For those who are deliberately doing the hyping for their own purposes I feel nothing but contempt.

And for the ones deliberately leaking disinformation and half truths, knowing that the full truth cannot be told, contempt doesn't even come close to describing what I think of them.

[Logical]

35. LOL, I love denial. You can love the NSA all you want. Mst realize what they are doing. n-t

[DevonRex]

77. LOL. One thing I can say with 100% certainty

is that you have no clue whatsoever. 100% certainty.

[Logical]

80. You have no clue how gullible you and others are. You remind me of the GOP supporters who....

were 100% sure there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq!

[ProSense]

141. What do

you "remind" people of: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023393947#post3

[Logical]

143. LOL, I would love to see your alert failure rate! 95%? n-t

[ProSense]

144. Projecting again? n/t

[Enrique]

5. the Worst Congress Ever is ok with it

so you should be ok with it too.

[bhikkhu]

97. If the Worst Congress Ever is forced to take a look at it and improve the regulations

then I'd be willing to say that Snowden did us a favor in the long run. Improved regulation was clearly needed, but overall it still had little to do with the president. All the nuts and bolts of the NSA's workings are managed (or not) by congress.

[leftstreet]

6. But, sadly, it looks like Obama did lie

Regardless of the word parsing and retroactive statements that are coming out, and will continue to come out til the end of time...

Obama chose a popular entertainment venue to tell Americans a lie

He shouldn't have done that, and whatever adviser suggested it is screwed

Obama To Leno: 'There Is No Spying On Americans'

by Greg Henderson
August 07, 201312:44 AM


President Obama defended the US government's surveillance program, telling NBC's Jay Leno on Tuesday that: "There is no spying on Americans."

"We don't have a domestic spying program," Obama said on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. "What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terrorist attack. ... That information is useful."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/06/209692380/obama-to-leno-there-is-no-spying-on-americans

wtf was he thinking?

[ProSense]

8. Where is the "lie"? n/t

[leftstreet]

13. Obama To Leno: 'There Is No Spying On Americans' n/t

[ProSense]

15. Again, where is the "lie"? n/t

[leftstreet]

26. Are you serious?

N.S.A. Said to Search Content of Messages to and From U.S.
By CHARLIE SAVAGE
Published: August 8, 2013

WASHINGTON — The National Security Agency is searching the contents of vast amounts of Americans’ e-mail and text communications into and out of the country, hunting for people who mention information about foreigners under surveillance, according to intelligence officials.

The N.S.A. is not just intercepting the communications of Americans who are in direct contact with foreigners targeted overseas, a practice that government officials have openly acknowledged. It is also casting a far wider net for people who cite information linked to those foreigners, like a little used e-mail address, according to a senior intelligence official.

While it has long been known that the agency conducts extensive computer searches of data it vacuums up overseas, that it is systematically searching — without warrants — through the contents of Americans’ communications that cross the border reveals more about the scale of its secret operations.

It also adds another element to the unfolding debate, provoked by the disclosures of Edward J. Snowden, the former N.S.A. contractor, about whether the agency has infringed on Americans’ privacy as it scoops up e-mails and phone data in its quest to ferret out foreign intelligence.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/08/us/broader-sifting-of-data-abroad-is-seen-by-nsa.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

That's a 'domestic' program

[WilliamPitt]

9. Artist's rendition of the last 12 hours of your life, thanks to the WaPo reports

Just a guess.

P.S. Where does this fit into your 'hype' explanation?

White House Tried To Interfere With Washington Post's Report, And To Change Quotes From NSA
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130816/01314924200/white-house-tried-to-interfere-with-washington-posts-report-to-change-quotes-nsa.shtml

[Logical]

12. LOL, no shit. She is still doubling down on it. Wow, some people have trouble admitting they are....

wrong.

[ProSense]

14. Well, this is

exactly the type of response I've come to expect from you: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002122711#post91

[burnodo]

22. holy wow

[Logical]

29. Threats? Are you lying or do you have links? n-t

[DisgustipatedinCA]

72. Will Pitt? He's been an undercover EmoProg Republitarian for a long time

Do you have any idea how difficult it is to stay undercover with your hair on fire? But I digress. Back in the day, Will Pitt always struck everyone as a solid liberal. He hit all the high notes--he was against the war, he was against the Bush Administration, he was for progressive policy, and he was a great writer with lots of passion. He had almost everyone fooled, but I wasn't asleep at the switch. I started noticing odd things about him around 2002 or so. I found him in a corner of the Lounge one day, curled up, rocking back and forth, and whispering "I stand with Rand", over and over. I didn't make too much of it at the time, just assumed he must have been exhausted. The next year, I went to see him speak in Bloomington, Indiana. It's been awhile now, but if I'm not mistaken, he brought up something about the 4th Amendment in his speech. I'm no dummy, and I know a dog whistle when I hear it. Anyone who talks about the 4th Amendment is an America hater, as we've all read in these pages in recent months. And if you're the doubtful type who requires more irrefutable proof, here it is: have you noticed that Mr Pitt likes to say "Derp" a lot? You may have thought it was a throwaway line, a low-level insult. It is not. Rather, it's a religious mantra he likes to chant while attacking the President, an acronym short for Dios Est Rand Paul--DERP. Don't even get me started on the numerology related to Pitt's favorite Boston sports figures' jersey numbers as they relate to his fundraising on behalf of Julian's Ecuadorian Rapecastle in central London--just trust me, all the pieces fit. We're through the smelling glass.

Have a nice weekend.

[WilliamPitt]

76. Gotta double up on the .gifs here

"Rather, it's a religious mantra he likes to chant while attacking the President, an acronym short for Dios Est Rand Paul--DERP."

[Matariki]

165. I'm glad *someone* is on to Mr. William Rivers Pitt.

Dios Est Rand Paul--DERP

[bigtree]

32. there was an answer to that question of his . . . about you ever opposing Obama

. . . your obsessive opposition to the President's SS 'compromise - which drove me batty (not just yours).

here's one of those posts . . .

Fri Dec 21, 2012, 01:18 PM

Star Member ProSense (103,961 posts)

Here's an example of how dead chained CPI is, and why it should be.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022048462

There must be dozens of these . . .


To my DU hero, WPitt:

. . . there are better battles than to get bogged down with this type of personalization of posters we disagree with . . . I can remember times where others here were pestered about motivations and allegiances behind words written or posted on these pages. Such a waste . . .

[WilliamPitt]

73. I asked you a question.

[WilliamPitt]

149. I asked you a question.

You've had a few hours to think about it.

[ProSense]

150. While you're waiting, post another silly gif. n/t

[grasswire]

16. oh lordy, that animation! nt

[David Krout]

33. +1 nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

36. ...

[Egalitarian Thug]

63. The real question is; Will she get to actually meet him with 200,000 posts?

It's pretty unfair that she works so hard for so long and gets nothing for it.

[Marr]

82. +1

[sheshe2]

87. Hey Will,

Not a very nice response from you. You are suppose to be the editorial wizard here.

And the picture, gruesome.

Just saying!

[Demo_Chris]

11. Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this...

Look Dave, I can see you're really upset about this. I honestly think you ought to sit down calmly, take a stress pill, and think things over.

[Fumesucker]

18. Just shut up and open the pod bay doors, Hal

[rug]

17. What's the opposite of hype? Why, it's secrecy!

http://thesaurus.com/browse/hype

[bvar22]

21. And the Melt Down continues.

I know I should avert my eyes from the slow motion Train Wreck,
but I can't.

[laundry_queen]

58. Ditto.

Call me a rubbernecker.

[Hydra]

66. Here, have some of this:

The problem with facts is...if you argue against them, they're still there afterwards.

[KarKar]

25. It must take a lot of effort

on your part

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. If senate won't act it's obvious we need more whistle blowers like Snowden who will.

[NoOneMan]

30. Doh. If you say so

[bigtree]

40. this is a weak defense of President Obama and a soft-pedaling of the NSA violations

. . . doing a disservice here to both interests; defending the president and advocating for some reform (as you have done, in a backhand sort of way).

Better to get out ahead of the issue of NSA reform and leave the President to defend himself. Nothing is to be gained by allowing the NSA and the government to excuse away violations of these regulations and laws by pointing to calls for reform efforts they KNOW well are bogged down in a compromising and prevaricating legislature.

[KarKar]

41. This is a turn around

I thought you were a staunch defender of the President.

[bvar22]

46. He is, but this is a sign of integrity,

and I salute him for having lines he will not cross.

[KarKar]

56. Oh, then carry on, bigtree

I misjudged you.

[bigtree]

85. ha!

par for the course

[Hydra]

69. Me too

A surprising number of people finding their way to solid ground again. It's very encouraging.

[bigtree]

65. that's the goddamn problem personalizing responses to posters here

Most people here who put posters in one bag or the other don't bother to even take ONE look beneath the surface to discern ANYTHING substantive or true about the beliefs, allegiances, motivations, etc, of the posters they so readily dismiss as 'in the bag' for some politician, or for some issue or the other.

I don't know what the fuck you bothered to read from me, but I am as complex a person as my political viewpoint and political focus. The fact that you can't step outside of your OWN bias has obscured your view of the many issues that I have challenged President Obama on in this forum and others on DU and elsewhere.

Yeah, I'm a little sensitive to the witchhunting around here.

[Rex]

120. Some old timers have changed their tune as of late

noticed that too.

[ProSense]

48. Oh please, stick to rebutting the point made. n/t

[bvar22]

59. Like that has ever stopped you from hijacking & diverting a thread.

QED X 1000

[Just Saying]

67. Who sticks to the point around here?

Seems to me the same crowd constantly screaming about character assassination does it plenty to anyone who disagrees with them.

Gets old, doesn't it?

[bigtree]

70. ha!

no, I'm going to leave the NSA twisting in the wind on this.

You ever see what happens to a flag that's been unceremoniously flown outside of a vehicle? Fraying . . . that's what's going to happen to this argument of theirs.

[Marr]

89. Ok, you just convinced me that you're doing performance art.

I mean Jesus, there's projection and then there's Prosense telling people to stick to the topic, lmao.

[neverforget]

130. Oh God. My drink is all over my screen.

That's the funniest shit I've read today.



Just for you --->

[hootinholler]

43. OK, Who's got the list?

There are at least two going around, I'm referring to the one with the talking points, I think this one is an addition.

[PoliticAverse]

47. Your claim isn't true. On June 12th thirteen Senators did call for an 'independent investigation'...

by the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board.

http://www.cantwell.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2013/6/cantwell-senators-call-for-investigation-into-nsa-phone-records-data-collection

WASHINGTON, D.C. – Today, U.S. Senator Maria Cantwell (D-WA) joined 12 other senators in calling for an independent investigation by the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board into the National Security Agency’s (NSA) data collection and phone records programs.

You can see the letter and the signatories here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/147446726/2013-Letter-to-Privacy-and-Civil-Liberties-Oversight-Board

[ProSense]

51. "by the Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board "

That's a board appointed by the President, and that review was dimissed like everything else: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023071334

[Egalitarian Thug]

57. Oh. the irony is just so irrestable...

"It's all hype"

[LondonReign2]

60. Dig dig dig that hole

Hopefully someone is buying you a bigger shovel, yours just can't do the job in the face of the mounting pile of shit you are trying to shovel up after.

[PoliticAverse]

61. Sen. Leahy calls new hearing on NSA, wants ‘straight answers’

Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) announced Friday that he plans to hold another hearing on the National Security Agency's surveillance programs, saying he's concerned that "we are still not getting straight answers."

Leahy's announcement about the additional hearing comes a day after an internal NSA audit published by The Washington Post revealed that the spy agency had repeatedly broken privacy rules or overstepped its authority.

"The American people rely on the intelligence community to provide forthright and complete information so that Congress and the courts can properly conduct oversight. I remain concerned that we are still not getting straightforward answers from the NSA," Leahy said in a statement.

"I plan to hold another hearing on these matters in the Judiciary Committee and will continue to demand honest and forthright answers from the intelligence community."

Read more: http://thehill.com/blogs/hillicon-valley/technology/317397-senate-judiciary-chairman-plans-additional-oversight-hearing-on-nsa-surveillance-programs

[ProSense]

68. Actually,

I posted that this morning: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023467541

It proves the OP point.

[delrem]

122. Leahy looked very stern and imposing when cross-examining Roberto Gonzales.

It was great TV.
But what came of it?

It's all goddamn theatre when it passes from G.W.Bush "secret interpretations" of legal terminology to B.H.Obama "secret interpretations" of legal terminology.

[Marrah_G]

62. Mom told me if I don't have anything nice to say, not to say anything at all. nt

[stupidicus]

64. I'd say your desperation is only exceeded by the number of efforts

required to hide it.

Is BHO taking license with the truth, or is he just an incompetent, out of the loop nincompoop? http://www.salon.com/2013/08/16/what_if_the_president_lied_to_us/

here's some more of those dreaded blue links for you

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/16/1231732/-Senators-Wyden-and-Udall-Post-s-NSA-story-the-tip-of-the-iceburg

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/15/1231487/-Transparency-The-word-games-behind-the-defense-of-NSA-surveillance

and what will you do when and if a commission/investigation is called for? A claim that more are buying "the hype"?

Feel free to point out the "hype" in any of that, and do be specific and spare me the use of blue links that are usually a tad off that mark to say the least.

[xocet]

71. Thus spake the self-referential matrix of blue links without a hint of irony. n/t

[ZombieHorde]

74. It is hype to those who view it as hype,

and it is not hype to those who don't view it as hype. Hype comes from our minds, as opposed to a quality of matter.

[msongs]

75. "collecting metadata" is spying, whether its done by bush 1, bush 2, or their proteges nt

[bvar22]

90. Me & Joe (version 2006) agree with you.

[Hissyspit]

78. "That's is why not a single Senator has demanded the establishment of a new Church Committee or call

"That's is why not a single Senator has demanded the establishment of a new Church Committee or called for an independent investigation."

That's the only possible reason?

You can't thing of any other possibilities?

[ProSense]

81. No, help me out. n/t

[Hissyspit]

86. We couldn't get the House to impeach Bush.

Couldn't get the Senate to do this:

Etc.

[ProSense]

94. What does that mean? n/t

[Hissyspit]

96. Your fallacy of causality doesn't take in other possible motivations for inaction

on the part of our elected officials.

[ProSense]

98. So instead of action they're just going to keep yelling?

Sorry that's not an excuse. You're talking about Congress, you know: the body that cut funding for Guantanamo.

[MisterP]

106. I mean that'd require we look at the actual quality of our Senators...

[progressoid]

79. These are the same Senators that thought the Iraq War Resolution was a good idea.

I don't think it's about "Obama lied", but more about a federal agency run amok.

[Fumesucker]

83. ...

[Le Taz Hot]

93. Hey now!

[cherokeeprogressive]

88. BULLSHIT. I don't give a FUCK whether or not Presiden Obama lied... On Leno or anywhere else.

For you though, President Obama's well-being is ALL this is about. His political well-being. You see no other thing. There is no person you will not trash or throw under the bus, including Matt Damon, for the tiniest perceived slight. President Obama's DU Legacy is all you can see. It's the strangest fucking thing I've ever encountered.

No, I don't give a FUCK about President Obama's part in how we got to the point we are now. I'd venture a guess that most other DUers who care about the Fourth Amendment and their right to privacy don't either. Most DUers understand how government works and understand that this is a situation that was in place when he assumed office. We're not stupid.

It's pretty fucking obvious, I should think, that the American Public is getting fed up with the notion that the NSA is running roughshod over our Fourth Amendment Right to Privacy (in the context of SPECIFICITY) while being told we have no right to know EXACTLY what, why, when, or how, and it's for our own good and we wouldn't understand if we WERE told. OUR tax dollars, being spent hand over fist, on things we aren't allowed to know about.

President Obama has the power to get in front of this right now and put an end to needless and questionable (not to mention mindlessly expensive) actions in the name of this bullshit War on Terror. We've spent TRILLIONS over little more than a decade and to what end? He can get this turned around. Promote a whole new agenda that doesn't include a war at all. Spend OUR money on US.

or

He can continue going on Late Night Talk Shows and acting (IN YOUR OWN WORDS) "uppity" while telling us what we now know is NOT TRUE. He can protect the 1%ers who employ the contractors who gather the information and continue to get richer and richer on our tax dollars.

[ProSense]

92. Well, I must say

"President Obama has the power to get in front of this right now and put an end to needless and questionable (not to mention mindlessly expensive) actions in the name of this bullshit War on Terror."

...spare me. The President's proposals were dismissed. In fact they mocked them. They being the media. Yet every organization that has an actual stake in pushing for reform, ackowledged the proposals are a start, and praised support for a FISC adversary: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023462757

In his statement today, Wyden again called for a FISC advocate: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023473562

Does anyone care?

[Iliyah]

100. Yes he has ProSense

but a few will ignore and continue with the outrage.

[cherokeeprogressive]

102. More bullshit, and no I don't care. Someone else might; I don't. I told you what I think: End it.

FISC "adversary"? FISC "advocate"? Fuck all that. Are you serious? More pretty words leading to nothing more than more secrecy. I'm tired of the secrecy, and I think the majority of the American public is as well. Do you not get that?

And do I even need to mention that you failed to address even one thing in my post? STOP SPENDING BILLIONS UPON BILLIONS ON SECRET INFORMATION VACUUM CLEANERS WHILE PEOPLE STARVE, BRIDGES CRUMBLE, SCHOOLS CLOSE, AND THE WORLD WATCHES OUR COUNTRY CIRCLE THE DRAIN.

End this bullshit already.

[ProSense]

105. And I told you what I think: spare me. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

107. The fuck you did. Here's your post. Where in the following is a statement of what you THINK?

"President Obama has the power to get in front of this right now and put an end to needless and questionable (not to mention mindlessly expensive) actions in the name of this bullshit War on Terror."

...spare me. The President's proposals were dismissed. In fact they mocked them. They being the media. Yet every organization that has an actual stake in pushing for reform, ackowledged the proposals are a start, and praised support for a FISC adversary: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023462757

In his statement today, Wyden again called for a FISC advocate: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023473562

Does anyone care?

[ProSense]

109. You seem upset. Spare me. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

110. Boom-shak-a-laka...

[ProSense]

111. LOL! n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

115. I'm guessing about a third of your over a hundred grand are comprised of LOL and a smiley or n/t

[ProSense]

118. Enjoy. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

125. You too.

[ProSense]

132. Nothing left, huh? n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

145. When you shot a blank with #109 there was hardly any point... perch like you get tossed back.

[ProSense]

146. LOL! You're patting yourself on the back for your own straw man. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

147. Why don't you provide a real answer for a change then.

[Tiredofthesame]

126. You're perpetuating your own "hype".

Which presidents proposals were dismissed?
You mean the proposal where Clapper heads the committee to inquire about what liberties and privacies are being trampled, the man who squirmed in front of Congress? That one?
What other proposals has Obama made, that are getting shot down? You mean like when the only article mentioned in his proposal was section 215 of the patriot act? Not anything about section 702 in FISA? Senator Wyden called him out in these issues. I don't remember a whole lot of proposals other than the "word salad" I have been hearing about how we need to investigate. The media should be mocking them.

Who cares?
I think the very people you mention care. I care. Most people here care. People who want their Constitutional Freedoms upheld by our needed government care.

When I was younger, when I stopped listening/paying attention to my brother's antics, he went away.

[ProSense]

131. "Which presidents proposals were dismissed? "

The ones you're dismissing.

Welcome to DU.

[ProSense]

138. Enjoy your stay. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

148. heh.

[Divernan]

134. Excellent, powerful retort - one of the best posts I've seen on DU in over 10 years here.

[Safetykitten]

140. THANK YOU!

[MuseRider]

91. This is just freaking sad to see,

Not unexpected, just sad.

I think that must be all I have to say about this.

[Lonr]

95. BS

Snowden's revelations ARE the most important in a generation. People are pissed, and rightfully so! We can either handle this peacefully through investigation/reform or, if that fails, the U.S. Constitution does afford, even task, us with other options...

[Just Saying]

104. What options would those be? n/t

[Skip Intro]

99. oh, the irony. n/t

[OnyxCollie]

101. Here's a joke.

Knock! knock!

Who's there?

ProSense

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[fascisthunter]

103. still here...lol

[99th_Monkey]

108. If it's "all hype" (nothing to see here) then why is Snowden being criminalized? eom

[ProSense]

113. Because he stole documents and revealed U.S. state secrets to other countries. n/t

[Iliyah]

116. ProSense you do bring them

out - LOL

[99th_Monkey]

119. But your "all hype" meme suggests that "it's no big deal"

but then you turn right around to insist that he must be "criminalized because he
stole secrets", which you know is completely at odds with a "it's no big deal" meme.

I don't think you can have it both ways: either it's no big deal, so Obama should lighten
up on Snowden, OR it IS a big fucking deal, so therefore we need to criminalize the shit
out of a 29 y.o. whistleblower.

[Rex]

123. Caught up in their own web you say?

nt.

[ProSense]

128. No, that's your misreading of the point.

Revealing U.S. state secrets has nothing to do with debating domestic surveillance issues. Nothing.

[Rex]

139. Completely the opposite actually.

nt.

[99th_Monkey]

142. ok. I get it. 2+2=5

said state secrets were related to domestic surveillance, and you know it.

I think this is where we agree to not waste any more time on this epic
dead-ender.

[bvar22]

151. Please document your claim that ...

Snowden "revealed U.S. state secrets to other countries."

The only documentation I have seen is explicit in that Snowden turned over classified documents to The Guardian and a couple of other established News Agencies, and these News Agencies then decided what they would publish in the People's Interest and the people's Right to Know.

I haven't seen a report from any credible source that claims that Snowden gave any classified information to any foreign governments,
and Snowden himself has denied this.
I HAVE seen this persistent false claim stated many times of DU,
but that doesn't make it true.

Giving classified documents to a News Outlet,
and letting them decide what to publish in the people's Interest and Right to Know makes one a "Whistle Blower",
and is VERY different from handing it to a foreign government.

So, please provide some documentation for your claim
from an credible news Source.

[cherokeeprogressive]

154. Can you hear that noise? What is that? Could it be? Why, I think it is... Yes, it is. It's

CRICKETS!

[bvar22]

155. I am surprised that this FALSE claim persists at DU.

Over and over the catapulters of this propaganda have been confronted with the False and undocumented basis of this claim (that Snowden has given classified information to foreign governments),
but that doesn't seem to do any good.

I don't think they care if what they are posting to DU is FALSE or not.
At this point, I can no longer believe that this is an honest mistake born of ignorance.

I can no longer accept them as honest brokers of information,
looking for honest discussion and debate.
They are pursuing another very dishonorable agenda,
and are not worthy of our time or respect.

[ProSense]

163. LOL! I guess this is tacit admission that such

"I am surprised that this FALSE claim persists at DU."

...a claim would be damaging to his case.

Snowden plans more leaks...will let foreign press decide if leaks endanger Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023084875

Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023215155

Does anyone see a distinction between the government and the press in China?

What are the chances that the Chinese press didn't turn the information over to the government?

Did he think about that or is he naive? Could that be the reason for his repeated denials?

<...>

Within hours of news breaking that the US had filed charges against Snowden, the South China Morning Post reported that the whistleblower had handed over a series of documents to the paper detailing how the US had targeted Chinese phone companies as part of a widespread attempt to get its hands on a mass of data.

Text messaging is the most popular form of communication in mainland China where more than 900bn SMS messages were exchanged in 2012.Snowden reportedly told the paper: "The NSA does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cellphone companies to steal all of your SMS data."

The paper said Snowden had also passed on information detailing NSA attacks on China's prestigious Tsinghua University, the hub of a major digital network from which data on millions of Chinese citizens could be harvested.

As Snowden made his latest disclosures, the US issued an extradition request to Hong Kong and piled pressure on the territory to respond swiftly. "If Hong Kong doesn't act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong's commitment to the rule of law," a senior Obama administration official said.

- more -

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-us-china

Rep. John Lewis: No Praise for Snowden
Aug 8, 2013

“News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.

“ I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline.

“At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowden’s actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908

[bvar22]

166. NOTED: No documentation or support for YOUR claim...

...that Snowden "revealed U.S. state secrets to other countries,"
and yet you persist in catapulting this [font size=3]False Statement[/font] at DU.

A while back I asked you if you ever knowingly posted FALSE INFORMATION at DU. You refused to answer that question, but you HAVE answered it today by the above demonstration.
The answer to that question is...[font size=3]YES. You have, and continue to knowingly post FALSE INFORMATION at DU.[/font]

I take that seriously.
You should take that seriously.
DU should take that seriously.

[Union Scribe]

112. Passengers Of Wrecked Cruise Ship Told "Everything Is Fine"

http://gothamist.com/2012/01/21/video_passengers_of_wrecked_cruise.php

[PowerToThePeople]

114. I love Big Brother.

You happy now?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
No. Fuck that. 2 + 2 = 4. EAT IT !!!!!

[caseymoz]

121. At this point, I begin to suspect

. . . you're on Obama's payroll. That's the only explanation I have for your post.

Of course, it's easier to be on somebody's payroll when you're a diehard believer. It's also harder to admit you're wrong.

[wandy]

124. Somewhere Karl Rove is laughing his ass off at us........

There can be no doubt that the duties of the NSA should be re assessed.
These people need their wings clipped, big time.
Ha, but what is the point of all of this.
The scandals.
Benghazi.
The IRS selectively targeting the Tea Party.
Michael Hastings is the new Vince Foster. Don't you know, the Clintons kill off their enemys!
Trust me on this. Soon a blue dress will be found in Obamas lower left hand desk drawer.

IMPEACH!!

I think I've heard this song before.
We might have a difficult time fixing our problems.
But can we please not fall for the republican bull shit again.

[Cryptoad]

129. So.....

So..... it boils down to some " feel good" shuffles with the Courts and NSA ,,,then back to biz as usual....... more things change the more they remain the same.. The only thing you need to think about is who is going to be appointing judges that will end up on these FISA courts. ........ You can work to keep upcoming appointments being made by The Democrats or go back to The GOP appointments........ that's your only real input you have coming!

[bobduca]

133. Maybe less lying would help

[tridim]

136. Seems like you touched a nerve with this Pro!

at the lockstep Neo-DU freak-out.

[rhett o rick]

152. It's an anti-authoritarian* freak-out. Did Sid give you permission to use

that ridicule emoticon? Is it a "lock-step" badge of some sort?

*anti-authoritarian is a title that was given to those that want to investigate the NSA, by a non-anti-authoritarian (they prefer not to be called authoritarians, so I call them non-anti-authoritarians).

[mick063]

137. Just remember the old political axiom

"If you are defending, you are losing"

[Rosa Luxemburg]

156. It's Congress's fault

they are the lawmakers and the FISA 'guardians'

[RetroLounge]

157. What a fucking joke

RL

[ProSense]

159. LOL! n/t

[RetroLounge]

162. oh, look, there's another...

pathetic



RL

[RudynJack]

158. Kudos for not using a block quote

[Safetykitten]

160. I would love to see you have a tv show...no really.

[ProSense]

161. Another NSA "Bombshell" Starts to Fizzle Out, as Greenwald Pushes Government Conspiracy Theory

Another NSA "Bombshell" Starts to Fizzle Out, as Greenwald Pushes Government Conspiracy Theory
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023478767