Stop the Lies - "Clapper lied to Congress"

[jazzimov]

I have noticed that there is a meme being circulated "Clapper lied to Congress".

Here is the question that Wyden asked clapper:

Wyden: So what I wanted to see is if you could give me a yes or no answer to the question, does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?

Realistically, there is no simple "yes or no" answer to this question. As much as we try to automate this process, you still have to rely on human which means there will be mistakes. Technically, the honest answer would be "Yes, BUT..." and the BUT would take a couple of hours to explain - which Congress would be bored with and would cut jhim pff before he was able to finish his explanation. Which I can't hold against them, because they're only HUMAN.

But what about the rest of the conversation?

Wyden: So what I wanted to see is if you could give me a yes or no answer to the question, does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?

Clapper: No, sir.

Wyden: It does not?

Clapper: Not wittingly. There are cases where they could inadvertently perhaps collect, but not wittingly.

There you have it. Clapper says they do not do it "wittingly". He tried to clarify this later, but no one wanted to listen. They just jumped to the conclusion that "Clapper lied to Congress".

And that's the problem. So many people are so ready to jump on that bandwagon that they don't look at the facts.

I think we need to look at the laws and the need, but we need to look at it FACTUALLY and not just running around with our hair on fire. Because it is a serious conversation that needs to be done, and inaccuracy does NOT need to be a part of it.

[PoliticAverse]

1. Clapper lied to Congress. n/t

[BlueStreak]

2. That is quite a pile there.

They most certainly do WITTINGLY and systematically collect records on millions of Americans and have been doing so for years.

Since you don't know what that word "wittingly" means, here is the definition: "with full knowledge and deliberation".

Those phone records didn't collect themselves. That was the direct result of full knowledge and deliberation by the NSA.

I think you would do much better arguing that Clapper lied for the good of the country because Americans can't handle the truth.

[rgbecker]

3. Blue...you are right on> Americans can't handle the truth. LOL +100

Also, apparently, some on the DU are having trouble with the rawness of it all.

[Igel]

4. Clapper also explains their definition of "collect."

"Collect" would mean store the entire message, not just metadata.

He said they collected some phone calls unwittingly; they gather all the metadata, but do not collect the phone calls.

It's jargon. And he did the right thing by using his terms and defining them.

He "lied" only if you think he used the words with the usual sense. If he didn't use the words in the common, everyday meaning then he didn't lie but has been widely misunderstood.

However, to claim he lied you have to have proof that he used the word in a way other than according to his defintion. Again: He said they gathered metadata, but only collected--stored the content of--phone calls "unwittingly."

If you like Snowden, one of his slides says the same thing. And others have said that any phone calls so collected could be accessed but only by court order. It's consistent.

[Fumesucker]

5. Clapper is Humpty Dumpty?

Which is to be master, that's all.

[BlueStreak]

6. Riiiiight. That's right up there with Obama referringto the military coup in Egypt as ...

"an intervention".

Wyden's question was perfectly clear to anyone. Arguing that Clapper didn't really lie is like Clinton defending his "I never had sexual relations" comment.

You are arguing, basically, that a blowjob is not sexual relations. It only makes the person making that argument look really foolish.