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While watching Nova on HS football, IMO it's time to scrap football or change it to a non contact (Original Post) CK_John Aug 2013 OP
Our daughter is an athletic trainer working in a middle and high school. It's football season! phylny Aug 2013 #1
and try not to let the testosterone splash on me." Thats funny bahrbearian Aug 2013 #4
Player weight limit wouldn't do anything Spider Jerusalem Aug 2013 #2
My son played football all the way through college. Two blown out B Calm Aug 2013 #3
Our daughter (see above, ATC) played soccer - two blown and repaired ACLs, phylny Aug 2013 #5
My niece, who is 9, just had her second concussion playing soccer. Robb Aug 2013 #9
When I was in HS I played Football for all 4 years and Im fine today. Walter-White Aug 2013 #93
My son would say the same thing. He was a running back and took some B Calm Aug 2013 #96
When The Money Of Liability Settlements... KharmaTrain Aug 2013 #6
Don't the families still have to sign a legal waiver? House of Roberts Aug 2013 #52
Limited Liability... KharmaTrain Aug 2013 #55
Yeah, good luck with that YarnAddict Aug 2013 #7
Never could be as long as tomorrow. CK_John Aug 2013 #14
Maybe we could wrap them in bubble wrap... Sotf Aug 2013 #8
For general out-and-out cruelty, your post ranks right up there with the average HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #10
Seems to me... Sotf Aug 2013 #11
Your cruelty (cloaked as it is in quasi-Libertarian rationale) deserves harsh censure. Consider HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #12
Public schools have no right to disable/maim a student for life. CK_John Aug 2013 #16
At which point did they put a gun to anyone's head... Sotf Aug 2013 #17
You don't understand group dynamics. CK_John Aug 2013 #18
K... Sotf Aug 2013 #19
Welcome to DU! Orrex Aug 2013 #56
Extending that logic would mean that motorcycle helmet laws and seat belt laws would be dropped. hedgehog Aug 2013 #95
Wow, so if any athlete has died in any activity that activity should be banned? Brilliant logic! n-t Logical Aug 2013 #20
Way to create a strawman (speaking of 'brilliant logic'). My post was in reply to HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #23
"Libtard"? wow. (nt) pintobean Aug 2013 #25
I don't know what else you call someone whose philosophy about dangerous HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #26
I've only see that word pintobean Aug 2013 #34
I thought it was used to denigrate Libertarians, which is how I intended it. I consider myself HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #35
I object to your use to of the suffix "tard" in this context. Brickbat Aug 2013 #28
In deference to your politely-worded objection, I'm editing all HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #32
Thanks for your consideration. Brickbat Aug 2013 #36
I'm actually leaving a sub-thread intact where pintobean and I discuss what HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #41
I gotta think there's a middle ground between banning football altogether and a mad max free for all Kber Aug 2013 #30
I agree concussions are an issue.... Logical Aug 2013 #37
Agree. Not another "ban" added to the Democratic Party's reputation. Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #61
I see pizza being delivered pretty soon GCP Aug 2013 #49
I agree with Sotf Purrfessor Aug 2013 #70
I was the one posting about lawns. thucythucy Aug 2013 #82
Did I mention you at all? I don't think so... Purrfessor Aug 2013 #83
Yes, you did. thucythucy Aug 2013 #88
You lose on this count... Purrfessor Aug 2013 #90
Whatever. thucythucy Aug 2013 #92
I played all the way from childhood in the parks to a year in college honestly I enjoyed it yes Arcanetrance Aug 2013 #13
Except for the spelling bee. progressoid Aug 2013 #57
Concussions.... Sotf Aug 2013 #60
Thanks for posting. No time like now to raise more awareness of the HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #15
I loved playing football. It was all I really had in high school that helped me fit in. I still... Logical Aug 2013 #21
Todays football is nothing like 10yrs ago. These are football factories. Players are 30% bigger, CK_John Aug 2013 #22
You are saying most high schools in the usa do not have a football team? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #24
True, major cities can't afford it, nor the liability. CK_John Aug 2013 #33
There are 29,000 high schools in America, 14,000 of them have football teams. Also.... Logical Aug 2013 #42
What do you call a "major city"? former9thward Aug 2013 #44
NYC. CK_John Aug 2013 #62
Except it does. former9thward Aug 2013 #63
Didn't know that. New since I went to HS(50's). CK_John Aug 2013 #66
That was 60 years ago! woolldog Aug 2013 #91
Interesting. The football program in our district is nothing like that. Brickbat Aug 2013 #29
There are high schools without football or sports programs?? Where might that be. madinmaryland Aug 2013 #31
Most schools don't have teams? Sheldon Cooper Aug 2013 #39
Really? Kber Aug 2013 #40
It's never too late to relive those HS years. ileus Aug 2013 #69
There's a reason it never catches on with the rest of the world BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #27
Thank you for your concern, but football is going nowhere LittleBlue Aug 2013 #38
Do you believe in science and the Scientific Method? - nt HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #43
lol what a stupid question LittleBlue Aug 2013 #45
Ask your pediatrician or neurologist how he or she feels about scholastic contact sports. I think HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #46
No, it's that I understand the risks LittleBlue Aug 2013 #47
Sorry, I don't think school should be a place where children risk death, whether HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #48
Then don't have your kid play football LittleBlue Aug 2013 #50
I don't need to talk to my representative, as the NSA has already fully HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #51
Science has examined football and soccer LittleBlue Aug 2013 #53
Should we ignore education in this discussion? Purrfessor Aug 2013 #74
Your post is one of the reasons I so enjoy and appreciate DU, as it often forces me out of HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #84
Thank you for your response... Purrfessor Aug 2013 #85
During my last protracted bout of unemployment before this current one, I investigated becoming HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #86
As I am sitting here, watching Sportscenter.... blueamy66 Aug 2013 #54
Congrats on your nephew LittleBlue Aug 2013 #58
Thanks. He's a good boy... blueamy66 Aug 2013 #73
Cheerleaders have just as many injuries. nt Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #59
Is Cheerleading More Dangerous than Football Go Vols Aug 2013 #64
Yes, it is. nt Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #67
One can, however, have cheerleading without acrobatics. One cannot have football without contact. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #75
I am hoping the new "body airbag" technology might make it safer Taverner Aug 2013 #65
My sons season just started yesterday...we have a good line this year ileus Aug 2013 #68
The day my son dropped soccer was a day Mr. Brickbat and I (privately) celebrated. Brickbat Aug 2013 #72
Many, if not most, non-contact sports are far from "boring." Baskeball, skiing, gymnastics, golf, WinkyDink Aug 2013 #76
cycling is in no way boring... ileus Aug 2013 #87
Soccer's boring!? Try track Kber Aug 2013 #78
BREAKING NEWS: High school football player dies after tackle AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #71
Man Dies After He Tripped On Sidewalk Purrfessor Aug 2013 #77
Being Inhuman is popular in America nowadays AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #80
I'm simply pointing that life in general, even activities we take for granted... Purrfessor Aug 2013 #81
I have a solution wercal Aug 2013 #79
First they came for the football players, woolldog Aug 2013 #89
Get rid of helmets and pads FarCenter Aug 2013 #94
Now wait just a minute Orrex Aug 2013 #97

phylny

(8,442 posts)
1. Our daughter is an athletic trainer working in a middle and high school. It's football season!
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:02 AM
Aug 2013

This week, one possible concussion, and one confirmed concussion, bloody injury, broken finger, kid who wanted both ankles wrapped because he'd "already broken both of them" and of course, a fight broke out. And this was a scrimmage. I asked, "What do you do when a fight breaks out?" She answered, "Back away, shake my head, and try not to let the testosterone splash on me."

Of course, during football season, since it's a helmeted sport, girls' volleyball and cross country only get the athletic trainers when they call and ask, i.e., if there's an emergent situation or injury.

 

Spider Jerusalem

(21,786 posts)
2. Player weight limit wouldn't do anything
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:32 AM
Aug 2013

the game would have to be changed from its current form; American football is dangerous because of two things...tackles, and the nature of the rushing formations (where players just put their heads down and run straight into opposing players). Hitting another person who's moving in the opposite direction at a similar rate of speed isn't going to NOT generate some significant force, even with a weight limit...and the research on chronic traumatic encephalopathy indicates that the cumulative effect of hundreds or thousands of sub-concussive hits is as bad or worse than that of actual concussions.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
3. My son played football all the way through college. Two blown out
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:10 AM
Aug 2013

ACL's, one in high school and the other knee in college. He now coaches HS track and wants nothing to do with football.

phylny

(8,442 posts)
5. Our daughter (see above, ATC) played soccer - two blown and repaired ACLs,
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:19 AM
Aug 2013

was supposed to play in college, but the pain from the second repair was too much and she had to quit. She would love to play still.

Robb

(39,665 posts)
9. My niece, who is 9, just had her second concussion playing soccer.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:33 AM
Aug 2013

Did this always happen in kids sports, and I simply don't remember it because my own head got rattled so much, or what?

 

Walter-White

(17 posts)
93. When I was in HS I played Football for all 4 years and Im fine today.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 10:20 AM
Aug 2013

I played as a DL. It probably was the most rewarding experience in my life. Any sport you are taking a risk with your body. I knew the risk when playing Football but I accepted that.

 

B Calm

(28,762 posts)
96. My son would say the same thing. He was a running back and took some
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 12:17 PM
Aug 2013

pretty hard blows, especially in college!

One game in high school he ran for 472 yards and the coach took him out with over 5 minutes left in the game. The next day the coach called here at home and apologized for taking him out of the game, he said you're going to read about it in the paper. He said he should have known better, I agree. I guess he only needed a few more yards for a state record. He was all state first team and had all kinds of college offers, then in practice 3 days before the sectional title game he blew out his ACL. He went ahead and played in the sectional with a blown out knee. The next day he had surgery, but the college offers went away.

He ended up playing for a small college that didn't offer athletic scholarships. He made the starting roster the first year of college and was doing great. In his junior year he blew out the other knee and had to give up football. I asked him once when he was playing in college, how do you stand all those 300/400 pound guys tackling you? He said the bigger they are the softer they are, ha.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
6. When The Money Of Liability Settlements...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:22 AM
Aug 2013

...supercedes the revenues a school makes off their football program is when you'll see changes. Unfortunately, in some areas high school sports is a big revenue generator and a dash of civic pride that has to be overcome. I think we'll see more and more schools downsize football as more studies show the long term affects of the traumatic injuries this sport creates...

House of Roberts

(5,369 posts)
52. Don't the families still have to sign a legal waiver?
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:11 PM
Aug 2013

No school system is going to allow that kind of liability to remain uncovered.

KharmaTrain

(31,706 posts)
55. Limited Liability...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:17 PM
Aug 2013

...I recall having to sign those for my kids but I would think that if the school can still be sued for wrongful death or injury if there's some kind of negligence involved. I would think a sharp lawyer could cut tons of holes through those riders...

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
10. For general out-and-out cruelty, your post ranks right up there with the average
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 09:58 AM
Aug 2013

Republican sociopath's.

One of my high school friends died in 1975 from a brain injury he received during a football practice. So your post is doubly cruel. I only hope and pray his family is not reading DU to see this.

 

Sotf

(76 posts)
11. Seems to me...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:05 AM
Aug 2013

... that this falls neatly in the category of "Don't like it? Don't do it..."

Don't like football? Fine, don't play it or watch it and leave that same choice to others instead of dictating what is "best" for them.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
12. Your cruelty (cloaked as it is in quasi-Libertarian rationale) deserves harsh censure. Consider
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:12 AM
Aug 2013

this comment my censure of you.

Have you no shame, Sir or Madam? At long last, have you no sense of decency?

 

Sotf

(76 posts)
17. At which point did they put a gun to anyone's head...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:22 AM
Aug 2013

... and march them out there?

It's voluntary and every player in the world knows that you can get injured playing virtually any sport.

 

Sotf

(76 posts)
19. K...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:38 AM
Aug 2013

So since there are benefits to playing football we should remove that choice because someone might get injured... even though in the end it is their decision "group dynamics" or not.

I have an idea. People should grow a spine and at the exact same moment take their noses out of other people's business.

hedgehog

(36,286 posts)
95. Extending that logic would mean that motorcycle helmet laws and seat belt laws would be dropped.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 10:28 AM
Aug 2013
 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
20. Wow, so if any athlete has died in any activity that activity should be banned? Brilliant logic! n-t
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:41 AM
Aug 2013
 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
23. Way to create a strawman (speaking of 'brilliant logic'). My post was in reply to
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:53 AM
Aug 2013

the pseudo-Libertarian Sotf who referred to serious brain injuries as 'boo boos' and then doubled down on his pseudo-Libertarian logic when I called him or her on it.

But, since you mention it, I think there is a strong case to be made for banning tackle football in secondary schools, given the emerging evidence that it plays a causative role in traumatic brain injuries and chronic neuorlogical health issues in later life.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
26. I don't know what else you call someone whose philosophy about dangerous
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:03 AM
Aug 2013

school sports like high-school football can be paraphrased thus:

"If you don't want to die, then don't play."

Speaking of 'wow'

 

pintobean

(18,101 posts)
34. I've only see that word
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:10 AM
Aug 2013

used by right wingers to describe liberals. I've seen it used on DU by very low post count trolls.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
35. I thought it was used to denigrate Libertarians, which is how I intended it. I consider myself
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:13 AM
Aug 2013

a political radical (on the left) but have enough in common with Liberals that I would never diss them in such a fashion. I'm going to leave our little sub-thread up for thread integrity purposes, but am editing my other reference to it.

Just so the record is clear, I have absolute and utter contempt for Libertarian philosophy and ethics, as oxymoronic as those phrases may seem.

Thanks for the annotation. I'll be sure not to use the word in the future.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
32. In deference to your politely-worded objection, I'm editing all
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:10 AM
Aug 2013

posts in this subthread.

I know it's somewhat outre to use the word and I only used it to exhibit my absolute contempt for Libertarian philosophy and ethics.

But thanks for flagging it. No disrespect was intended to the cognitively disabled.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
41. I'm actually leaving a sub-thread intact where pintobean and I discuss what
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:18 AM
Aug 2013

the word means in a political context. I was using it to display contempt for Libertarians, not realizing that the term has been used elsewhere to denigrate liberals, which was most definitely not my intent.

The closest I would ever come to denigrating liberals (from my radical perspective) might be to refer to them, in good-natured exasperation, as 'damned liiberals'

Kber

(5,043 posts)
30. I gotta think there's a middle ground between banning football altogether and a mad max free for all
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:09 AM
Aug 2013

Lots of research about mini concussions is driving a move to limit the number of hits sustained in HS ball and at the NFL level. Most HS teams enforce water breaks better than the used to. The NFL just made running with a lowered helmet a penalty.

Admittedly college ball, in all division s is behind the NFL and most HS leagues in terms of safety rules, though. This needs to be addresses, for sure.

I agree that we need to continue to find ways to protect our kids when they play, but athletics can be a powerfully positive force in a young person's life and I find the sometimes knew jerk reaction to simply ban the activity all together both an over action and, frankly, an over simplification made by people who personally don't enjoy or value the game. That's ok. Football specifically and athletics generally aren't for everyone and that diversity is what makes us better and stronger. But as a "football mom" who has researched safety and risks extensively, and has had to weigh those risks against the benefits (better academic focus, strong friendships, the ability to manage time, school, workouts, practice, I could go on, but I won't bore you!), football has been a net positive for my son.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
37. I agree concussions are an issue....
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:13 AM
Aug 2013

when I played no one even cared about a concussion. Now, at least they have a process to test for them after a injury. But many players hide the symptoms so they can play.

Most football deaths are heat related or heart related, not contact related.

The heat ones can be solved if coaches follow the right process.

The hidden heart issues might be harder to solve.

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
70. I agree with Sotf
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:09 PM
Aug 2013

People are and should be allowed to make their own decisions. Yesterday I saw a thread complaining about people mowing their lawns and using fertilizer and weed killer and how the noise was so distracting. And why not just let the grass grow? Well maybe some folks like to mow their yards, maybe some folks like the look of a well maintained lawn. But, oh no, if some people don't like a particular thing they want to slap controls on it or prevent it altogether because they feel they know what is best.

It's my guess that many of those complaining about the dangers of playing football, and who want to deny kids the opportunity to decide for themselves whether to participate (with their parents' approval, of course), fervently oppose anyone who wishes to deny a woman's right to make her own medical decisions. Oh, but that is different, they'll say. No it isn't. This is about the right to make one's own decisions in life providing those decisions fall within the boundaries of legality.

Should high school golf also be banned because, aside from placing kids in a "toxic" environment (fertilizers and weed killers and such), it
might also encourage them to grow up and want to have a nice golf-course looking lawn of their own, at which point it will require the use of mowers, weedeaters and blowers, oh my?

If one looks hard enough he can find a reason to ban almost anything. But this is not how we operate in this country. At least not yet.

thucythucy

(8,341 posts)
82. I was the one posting about lawns.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 03:05 PM
Aug 2013

Part of that OP, and the discussion which followed, was about the air pollution, carbon footprint, fertilizer run-off, and the incredible waste of water inherent in our obsession with the perfectly manicured lawn, as well as the noise and general obnoxiousness of living in a society where any sunny day is seen by many as an excuse for cranking up a two-stroke engine.

If you bother to read the thread, you might learn something about the environmental impact of "lawn maintenance." I know I did. I had no idea, for instance, that fully one third of all the water used in Texas was used to water people's lawns. Years from now, when the aquifers run dry and the glaciers are gone, people are going to be amazed at the short-sighted narcissism of this current generation of Americans. Or are you one of those folks who thinks global warming is a liberal hoax, and that natural resources, such as water and petroleum, are infinite?

We live in a society. We are all interconnected. "Live and let live" only works if there is at least a modicum of consideration for others, and if your "living" doesn't destroy the environment we all have to share. Or, in the case of serious and entirely avoidable sports injuries, if it doesn't raise the cost of health care insurance for all of us.

And BTW, I don't recall mentioning anything in my OP about banning anything, or "slapping controls" on it or "stopping it altogether." That's your own mis-characterization. I simply asked why Americans have such an obsession with their lawns. I thought the response from my fellow-DUers was thought provoking, informative, and at times pretty damn funny. Given that it now has close to 40 recs, and more than a 120 responses, most of them positive, I don't think I did DU any great disservice by starting this conversation.

I certainly don't appreciate one OP being turned into a straw man so you can discount serious issues being raised in another.

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
83. Did I mention you at all? I don't think so...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 03:31 PM
Aug 2013

Yet somehow according to you I didn't bother to read your thread, nor do I know anything about lawn maintenance. And on top of that you question my beliefs on global warming. Why? Because I had the nerve to reference your thread.

I simply said "some people" would like to control or ban things they don't agree with. Unless your username is "some people" I was not speaking of you directly.

Straw man? Ha!

I get that you don't like lawns and from your tirade you probably don't like people who have lawns. But there is no need to ridicule them?

thucythucy

(8,341 posts)
88. Yes, you did.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:54 PM
Aug 2013

"Yesterday I saw a thread complaining about people mowing their lawns and using fertilizer and weed killer and how the noise was so distracting. And why not just let the grass grow? Well maybe some folks like to mow their yards.... But, oh no, if some people don't like a particular thing they want to slap controls on it or prevent it altogether because they feel they know what is best..."

That's me. That "thread complaining about people mowing their lawns..." was me. So yes, you did mention me. In fact, in this last post, immediately after saying you didn't mention me, you then admit you "referenced my thread." Jeez, make up your mind! And then you proceed to put a slew of words into my mouth, and ascribe to me positions I've never held. I never said anything about "slapping controls" on anything. So yeah, I noticed the reference to my OP, and your distortions, and I called you on it.

And as I said, it's about more than "not liking lawns." It's about the environmental impact of a facet of American life so common, so sacrosanct, that people like you get themselves all in a huff if you even try to bring it up.

I happen to believe that, in the context of global warming, we need to take a good hard look at ALL aspects of the American "lifestyle." Global climate change is probably the most significant threat we face today, and so it's about time we start examining the things we do personally and politically that contribute to it, especially things that are less than essential. I'm sure you've heard the phrase: "Think globally, act locally." Well, there's nothing more global than world wide climate change, and nothing more local than my own and my own neighbor's lawn.

BTW, I like lots of people who have lawns. I just wish some of them would take a minute to reflect on whether they need to be quite so compulsive about tending them. During WWII people were asked to conserve gas, to ask themselves "Is this trip really necessary?" In fact, they were asked to do less lawn care, and grow Victory Gardens instead. I'd love to see similar efforts catch on today, before every glacier melts and every south sea island is submerged. You disagree?

That's basically what I'm asking people to do here. To THINK about the impact their actions are having on the environment, which BTW includes the noise they make.

Sorry you seem to have such a problem with that.

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
90. You lose on this count...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:26 PM
Aug 2013

I referenced the many complaints in the thread, not any one in particular. Nowhere in my post will you find your name. Sounds to me like you are just looking for a reason to be offended. Good luck with that.

thucythucy

(8,341 posts)
92. Whatever.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 09:28 AM
Aug 2013

Two general thoughts might help you on your way:

1. If you want to complain about someone's OP, or have a derogatory comment to make, you might consider making it in the OP itself, rather than making a vague and inaccurate reference in another thread;

2. When you do make such references, you might remember to think that the person who wrote the OP you're referencing might actually be there reading.

Best wishes.

Arcanetrance

(2,670 posts)
13. I played all the way from childhood in the parks to a year in college honestly I enjoyed it yes
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:17 AM
Aug 2013

I have two fucked up knees but I enjoyed the game itself it was the locker room culture that made me quit. There's no such thing as sports without injury all of them have their risk. Just living we risk injury and death everyday.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
15. Thanks for posting. No time like now to raise more awareness of the
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:20 AM
Aug 2013

risks of TBI from such frivolous pursuits.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
21. I loved playing football. It was all I really had in high school that helped me fit in. I still...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:43 AM
Aug 2013

have friends from high school I played with. It was a good experience for me.

CK_John

(10,005 posts)
22. Todays football is nothing like 10yrs ago. These are football factories. Players are 30% bigger,
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:52 AM
Aug 2013

coaching is pro ball level, training is a all year activity, and class work is minimized.

Football is a regional activity, most schools do not have football teams.

 

Logical

(22,457 posts)
42. There are 29,000 high schools in America, 14,000 of them have football teams. Also....
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:22 AM
Aug 2013

The most common sport, according to the survey, is basketball: 18,150 schools have a boys basketball team and 17,767 schools have a girls basketball team. Football has the most participants among all high school sports, with more than 1.1 million students playing at 14,000 schools.

http://www.usnews.com/education/blogs/high-school-notes/2011/09/02/high-school-sports-participation-increases-for-22nd-straight-year

So football is not dropping off.

 

woolldog

(8,791 posts)
91. That was 60 years ago!
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:26 PM
Aug 2013


your info is a little out of date, I'd say. That doesn't bother me. What bothers me is how certain you are of what you say, yet it's clear you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

madinmaryland

(64,981 posts)
31. There are high schools without football or sports programs?? Where might that be.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:10 AM
Aug 2013

At least in public schools, everywhere I have been, there have been football and sports programs, which are considered an integral part of public education.

Kber

(5,043 posts)
40. Really?
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:15 AM
Aug 2013

Every public high school in my state has a football team.

Plus they have limited the number of "hits" a player can receive in practice. There are more water breaks. There are fewer full pads practices and a greater emphasis on cardio training and stretching than simply weight work.

Every kid takes a pre concussion test prior to practice, so there is a baseline for comparison purposes after a head injury and a player cannot return until they return to their baseline, which can be weeks after other concussion symptoms are gone.

I agree that it's different, but not in the way you seem to think.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
69. It's never too late to relive those HS years.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:00 PM
Aug 2013
http://www.alumnifootballusa.com


We had our first alumni football game this year. While I didn't play it sure was fun seeing friends and neighbors out on the field having a blast and raising money for our junior teams (3-6th grade)



BeyondGeography

(39,540 posts)
27. There's a reason it never catches on with the rest of the world
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:04 AM
Aug 2013

Oh, they'll watch it (until they realize the commercial interruptions never fucking stop). But they won't play it.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
38. Thank you for your concern, but football is going nowhere
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:14 AM
Aug 2013

As it should be.

You can't scrap football, people will organize and play it somewhere. Banning it at HS would just cause it to be organized away from HS.

The politician who tries to do this would only succeed in committing political suicide. Deservedly.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
45. lol what a stupid question
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:35 AM
Aug 2013

How would you stop people organizing HS football away from the school, like they do other sports? You've as much chance to ban football as apple pie.

I'll kick my feet up tonight with millions of others and watch some football in honor of the bedwetters.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
46. Ask your pediatrician or neurologist how he or she feels about scholastic contact sports. I think
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:37 AM
Aug 2013

you might be surprised to hear what he or she has to say on the subject.

I guess you don't believe in science or the Scientific Method, judging by your contemptuous dismissal of the question.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
47. No, it's that I understand the risks
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:48 AM
Aug 2013

but think people should be allowed to take those risks. Soccer is the same. Heading the ball causes long term damage to the brain, and knee injuries/broken bones are common.

This is the same mentality you could use to ban alcohol, as it is far more destructive than any sport. You feel that it's your choice, and that if others don't choose similarly, they should be deprived of that choice.

Too bad for you folks, we live in a free country.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
48. Sorry, I don't think school should be a place where children risk death, whether
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 11:53 AM
Aug 2013

by choice, peer presssure, societal prejudice or any other influence.

School should be a place where children learn. I pay property taxes to the State of California each year and I don't feel my tax dollars should be spent placing children at risk of traumatic brain injury.

Still haven't heard you say 'yay' or 'nay' to the Scientific Method and science. Maybe because you know all too well what medical science has to say about the dangers of scholastic contact sports.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
50. Then don't have your kid play football
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:03 PM
Aug 2013

That's what those little consent forms are for. My parents signed off on mine, but you aren't forced to make that choice.

You don't want to pay for this sport? Go talk to your representative. There are plenty of things I don't want to pay taxes for, them's the breaks.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
51. I don't need to talk to my representative, as the NSA has already fully
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:08 PM
Aug 2013

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:45 PM - Edit history (1)

apprised them of my views. (The silver lining to all this NSA spying and snooping.)

So you have no problem with schools sponsoring activities that place children at risk of traumatic brain injuries? OK. Me, I have faith in the advance of science and scientific knowledge to influence behaviors and attitudes. Often the changes lag the advances in science by many years or decades -- witness global climate change -- but my hope is that society will put a halt to sports that injure students so badly. If not now, then maybe in 20-25 years from now.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
53. Science has examined football and soccer
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:15 PM
Aug 2013

and found them dangerous. Doesn't change the fact that people will still take the risk. I did, and if my children decide to take it, they will get my enthusiastic support.

This might concern you, but I'm also buying cars for my kids while they're in HS. Yes, this puts them at a far greater risk of death than football, but that's the way I roll.

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
74. Should we ignore education in this discussion?
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:27 PM
Aug 2013

There are many kids who drive themselves extremely hard to maintain an 4.0 average, join school sponsored clubs, take on every form of extra credit and do as much community work as time allows in an effort to earn admittance and/or a scholarship to an Ivy League school. For some of them the stress factor is as mentally damaging as football injuries are to high school players.

How do you propose we protect these kids? Surely not by banning education.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
84. Your post is one of the reasons I so enjoy and appreciate DU, as it often forces me out of
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 04:48 PM
Aug 2013

my comfort zone a bit and makes me think! (Something not to be underestimated in this age of diddling Iphones and mindless XBox vapidity).

I have long said that American higher education is badly in need of some latter-day Martin Luther to come along and tack up a new 95 Theses on the doors of academe. I think in regards to your question that I stand with Henri Giroux and other like-minded leftist education reformers who seek a complete and thorough overhaul of the entire educational apparatus. Without going into a lot of specifics, such leftist critiques of the educational system tend to situate it within a larger sub- and superstructural dialectic, such that most serious leftist proposals to reform American education predicate the proposal upon a simultaneous reform of the economic substructure and various other super-structural outgrowths. (Sorry to lapse into Marxist jargon, but figure this may resonate with you a little, given your screen name.)

Just out of curiosity, are you merely playing Devil's Advocate with your post, or do you have a proposal to handle the stressors caused by the modern American educational system? If so, maybe we should start our own thread and carry on the debate there.

Once again, though, thanks for the question. Very a propos and badly needed asking.

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
85. Thank you for your response...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:28 PM
Aug 2013

I was simply pointing out that along with the obvious dangers of sports participation, there are other activities, if you wish to call them that, which often receive little mention yet which have their own inherent dangers.

I have witnessed my own ninth-grade daughter (a sophomore this year) in tears because she received a B+ on a test rather than the A for which she had studied so hard.

As the US population expands the competition to gain acceptance to an elite school increases exponentially. In response we, as a society, have placed evermore burdensome and stressful demands on our kids in an attempt to differentiate the top 1/2 (1/4 maybe?) of 1 percent from the rest.

I do not know the answer to solving this problem. And now, on top of the stressful drive to be accepted by a Harvard or Yale or other similarly prestigious university, we create the problem of how to pay for it. We provide banks zero percent loans yet force college students who will become major contributing forces in our economy into loans that can eventually reach nearly 9 percent.

This is backwards.

Anyway, I appreciate your response and apologize for the last two sentences in my previous post. Upon rereading them I realize they sound rather harsh.

 

HardTimes99

(2,049 posts)
86. During my last protracted bout of unemployment before this current one, I investigated becoming
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:42 PM
Aug 2013

a teacher in the Los Angeles school system (without going through a formal credentialing program). Turned out to be a protracted bout of bureaucratic hoop-jumping that led nowhere but, in the process of jumping through the hoops, I 'observed' two high-school English classes. Each teacher told me after the class that he\she spent the vast majority of his or her time teaching to the various 'tests' the state now mandates. This was a sobering sentiment coming from two teachers who had conducted what to my admittedly untutored eye looked like great class sessions the days I observed.

I really feel for your daughter and for today's youth. Nothing I say will ease the sting for your daughter, but FWIW, there is life after high school and for the most part it's a vast improvement in just about every respect.

The American educational system sits atop an economic sub-structure where 1% control 40% of the wealth at the exact same time that 1 out of 5 American children experience at least one episode of hunger per month. So I don't think the solutions are going to be easy or simple and I don't think tinkering with things at the margins will really improve matters (hence my radical left-wing stance).

I did not take your final two sentences harshly but more as a wake-up call to me to get off my anti-football high horse and do some real thinking.


 

blueamy66

(6,795 posts)
54. As I am sitting here, watching Sportscenter....
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:16 PM
Aug 2013

Great games on Friday and Saturday and can't wait for today's game!

My nephew plays freshman football in AZ and it will be my pleasure to go out to watch every game that he plays in.

There is no way in hell high schools will EVER get rid of football....no way in hell....anyone that thinks differently is delusional

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
58. Congrats on your nephew
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:28 PM
Aug 2013

He's entering the most fun period of his life. School, girls, sports, and video games all with few responsibilities.


Those were the days

Go Vols

(5,902 posts)
64. Is Cheerleading More Dangerous than Football
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:49 PM
Aug 2013
According to a recent study, cheerleading is definitely more dangerous than football, that is if by "danger" you are talking about risk of injury.


http://cheerleading.lovetoknow.com/Is_Cheerleading_More_Dangerous_than_Football
 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
75. One can, however, have cheerleading without acrobatics. One cannot have football without contact.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:35 PM
Aug 2013

One can have A sport, but the result would not be football.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
68. My sons season just started yesterday...we have a good line this year
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 12:56 PM
Aug 2013

not the best running or QB but they'll learn.


Nothing like going to the kids football games.

The evening he got his pads this year after practice he said "I can't wait, practice is going to be great tomorrow!"

Me "Why's that?"

"I get to hit people." LOL

The already have a non contact form of football we Americans call it soccer...we also call it boring.

Oh and both my kids have played 4 years of soccer...even when it's your own kids it still blows.

Brickbat

(19,339 posts)
72. The day my son dropped soccer was a day Mr. Brickbat and I (privately) celebrated.
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:17 PM
Aug 2013

I'm OK watching high school, but those games full of 9-year-olds watching the ball roll around are ridic.

 

WinkyDink

(51,311 posts)
76. Many, if not most, non-contact sports are far from "boring." Baskeball, skiing, gymnastics, golf,
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:38 PM
Aug 2013

speed-skating, cycling, tennis, ..........

Like what you like, but hold the ignorance.

ileus

(15,396 posts)
87. cycling is in no way boring...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 05:48 PM
Aug 2013

a good road race is always exciting. I love to watch and play golf, and who doesn't love Bball or Baseball?

Speed skating every four years I catch a race or two.

Gymnastics every four years or when my girl took it when she was 7-9.

I never said everyone found soccer boring, I said I find soccer boring. I try an try and watch it, but IMHO kind of like hockey all the sport (excitement) is taken out by rules that don't make sense.

Motocross is pretty exciting but I'm not sure it's really a non-contact sport.

Edit:

Oops I just read what I'd posted...crap I didn't mean to make it sound like all of America found it boring, but that's how it reads. I apologize I can see now how you come to the conclusion of my ignorance on the subject now.


Kber

(5,043 posts)
78. Soccer's boring!? Try track
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:43 PM
Aug 2013

Speaking as a former mid distance runner and a track mom, ugh! I really had no appreciation for my mom's devoted attendance until my daughter started running.

On the bright side, she's in her first musical tomorrow and I'm genuinely looking forward to it.

Back on topic, my football playing son did suffer a concussion in a game when he was younger and it was pretty scary, I must admit. It was mild, thank goodness.

My daughter, on the other hand, banged her head with another students in music class and ended up vomiting for several hours. Where's the outrage there, I ask!?

on that last bit, just in case.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
71. BREAKING NEWS: High school football player dies after tackle
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:17 PM
Aug 2013
http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/17/us/high-school-football-death

"Atlanta (CNN) -- A suburban Atlanta high school football player has died from injuries suffered while making a tackle during a scrimmage game, according to medical examiners.

Deantre Turman's death came Friday after he made a tackle during a pre-season game, said Mike Alsip, a forensic investigator for the Fulton County Medical Examiner's Office. The teenager broke his neck, Alsip said.

The accident happened at a school in the Atlanta suburb of College Park, Georgia, according to CNN affiliate WSB."

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
77. Man Dies After He Tripped On Sidewalk
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:43 PM
Aug 2013
http://www.sanduskyregister.com/article/1753306

Life is dangerous, even when out walking.

Richard Petrak and friends were visiting South Bass Island on June 4, 2011 and docked at B Dock, part of the DeRivera Park in the village...Early that morning, he tripped on the sidewalk, broke his neck and died..."Yes, he had been drinking," attorney Tom DeBacco said.

Drinking and walking, a double whammy. Two activities to ban for the price of one.

Purrfessor

(1,189 posts)
81. I'm simply pointing that life in general, even activities we take for granted...
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:56 PM
Aug 2013

can end in tragedy. But I assure you I am human.

wercal

(1,370 posts)
79. I have a solution
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 01:44 PM
Aug 2013

Slow the players down.

I have designed artificial football and baseball fields. The baseball fields inckude sand added to the rubber pellets, to prevent the ball from bouncing unnaturally fast off the turf. It seems the same sand could slow down play on artificial turf ( which is becoming more common at the high school level). The same concept has been used fir years at demolition derbies, where they get everything good and muddy. Another option is to reduce cleat height...less speed and less ability for foot to stay planted while recieving a disabling hit.

 

woolldog

(8,791 posts)
89. First they came for the football players,
Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:24 PM
Aug 2013

and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a football player.....

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