UPDATE 2-China seen probing IBM, Oracle, EMC after Snowden leaks

[ProSense]

UPDATE 2-China seen probing IBM, Oracle, EMC after Snowden leaks

Aug 16 (Reuters) - China's Ministry of Public Security and a cabinet-level research centre are preparing to investigate IBM Corp, Oracle Corp and EMC Corp over security issues, the official Shanghai Securities News said on Friday.

The report follows revelations by former U.S. spy agency contractor Edward Snowden of widespread surveillance by the National Security Agency. It also comes as Beijing probes Western drugmakers over allegations of bribery and over-pricing.

Documents leaked by Snowden revealed that the NSA has had access to vast amounts of Internet data such as emails, chat rooms and video from companies including Facebook Inc and Google Inc, under a government program known as Prism.

<...>

China has been a focal point for the Snowden case since he stopped in Hong Kong en route to Moscow. He also claimed that the NSA hacked into critical network infrastructure at universities in China and in Hong Kong.

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http://in.reuters.com/article/2013/08/16/china-ioe-idINL4N0GH22V20130816

Snowden plans more leaks...will let foreign press decide if leaks endanger Americans
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023084875

Snowden: I never gave any information to Chinese or Russian governments
http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023215155

Does anyone see a distinction between the government and the press in China?

What are the chances that the Chinese press didn't turn the information over to the government?

Did he think about that or is he naive? Could that be the reason for his repeated denials?

<...>

Within hours of news breaking that the US had filed charges against Snowden, the South China Morning Post reported that the whistleblower had handed over a series of documents to the paper detailing how the US had targeted Chinese phone companies as part of a widespread attempt to get its hands on a mass of data.

Text messaging is the most popular form of communication in mainland China where more than 900bn SMS messages were exchanged in 2012.Snowden reportedly told the paper: "The NSA does all kinds of things like hack Chinese cellphone companies to steal all of your SMS data."

The paper said Snowden had also passed on information detailing NSA attacks on China's prestigious Tsinghua University, the hub of a major digital network from which data on millions of Chinese citizens could be harvested.

As Snowden made his latest disclosures, the US issued an extradition request to Hong Kong and piled pressure on the territory to respond swiftly. "If Hong Kong doesn't act soon, it will complicate our bilateral relations and raise questions about Hong Kong's commitment to the rule of law," a senior Obama administration official said.

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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jun/22/edward-snowden-us-china

Rep. John Lewis: No Praise for Snowden
Aug 8, 2013

“News reports about my interview with The Guardian are misleading, and they do not reflect my complete opinion. Let me be clear. I do not agree with what Mr. Snowden did. He has damaged American international relations and compromised our national security. He leaked classified information and may have jeopardized human lives. That must be condemned.

“ I never praised Mr. Snowden or said his actions rise to those of Mohandas Gandhi or other civil rights leaders. In fact, The Guardian itself agreed to retract the word “praise” from its headline.

“At the end of an interview about the 50th anniversary of the March on Washington, I was asked what I thought about Mr. Snowden’s actions. I said he has a right as an individual to act according to the dictates of his conscience, but he must be prepared to pay the price for taking that action. In the movement, we were arrested, we went to jail, we were prepared to pay the price, even lose our lives if necessary. I cannot say and I did not say that what Mr. Snowden did is right. Others will be the judge of that.”

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023427908

[leveymg]

2. Gee, I guess that Chinese Intel needed Snowden to tell them that NSA is hacking their networks?

And that US-based IT companies were part of the game.

Who would've thought such a thing . . .?

[ProSense]

3. Well,

"Gee, I guess that Chinese Intel needed Snowden to tell them that NSA is hacking their networks?"

...do you expect China not to take advantage?

China, repeatedly accused by the United States of hacking, was given considerable ammunition by Snowden's allegations, which Beijing has used to point the finger at Washington for hypocrisy.

[GeorgeGist]

4. Well,

"China, repeatedly accused by the United States of hacking, was given considerable ammunition by Snowden's allegations, which Beijing has used to point the finger at Washington for hypocrisy."

Did you expect China not to notice Obama's hypocrisy?

[ProSense]

5. "Did you expect China not to notice Obama's hypocrisy?"

Is that a statement in support of China and revealing U.S. state secrets over to that government?

[leveymg]

6. Do you really think either side is going to stop hacking? Snowden is significant for his domestic

spying disclosures, and the fact that data about everyone inside the US is being held inside the NSA databases, not for the stuff about NSA hacking into Chinese military and academic (same thing, really) networks - everybody knew about NSA spying on militarily and economically significant targets in China and Russia, etc. That should be no surprise to anyone, and is simply how the game has been played for six decades.

Both sides will try to take advantage as far as they can. I don't see any details in what I have read that has been disclosed by Snowden that leads me to believe that he's tipped any balance or really given away anything of any value in the international spying game, that will, in any case, go on pretty much as before. In fact, I think part of the reason why Snowden had to leave HK and didn't go to China was that he didn't produce much of anything of any real value to the Chinese.

My take is that Russia took him in simply to thumb their nose at the US. Simple as that.

Snowden may well have some things of value, particularly about joint CIA-NSA collection operations he was part of when he worked in Switzerland, but he won't trade it all away, not at first, and will hold back the most important stuff until he's satisfied that he gotten what he wants most - his own survival and safety.

[ProSense]

7. Snowden's actions overseas are "significant" to his case.

"Both sides will try to take advantage as far as they can. I don't see any details in what I have read that has been disclosed by Snowden that leads me to believe that he's tipped any balance or really given away anything of any value in the international spying game, that will, in any case, go on pretty much as before. In fact, I think part of the reason why Snowden had to leave HK and didn't go to China was that he didn't produce much of anything of any real value to the Chinese."

Regardless of your opinion of the impact, the fact is that he did reveal information to China.

[leveymg]

9. There's a concept in law called materiality. If the exposure of information has little or no

material value to a hostile power (because it is already known or is trivial), then its exposure is of lesser consequence. It's a breach of Snowden's nondisclosure agreement.

If someone can point to something specific that Snowden has revealed that had an apparent, immediate effect on national security with a demonstrable serious harm to any specific program or individual, I would like to see it. Those who accuse him of Treason bear the burden of producing such evidence.

Anyone? Anything?

[ProSense]

10. You can't say it had "no material value"

because China is using the information to their advantage. That alone adds value. You also don't know what he released to them.

[leveymg]

11. I said the burden is on the accuser to demonstrate the materiality of the information released.

Practically anything can be twisted, puffed up and confused so it might have propaganda value. A photo of a politician eating has potential gross-out value, so the WH and most other institutions have rules that ban taking photos while meals are served at official state functions. Do you want to make that a Crime of High Treason, too?

I did not say that he hadn't released anything of material value, just that I have not seen anything, so far, that proves that.

[ProSense]

12. Sure, but again

"I said the burden is on the accuser to demonstrate the materiality of the information released. Practically anything can be twisted, puffed up and confused so it might have propaganda value....I did not say that he hadn't released anything of material value, just that I have not seen anything, so far, that proves that.

...the fact that he released leaked information to China is a crime.

[leveymg]

13. He knew that when he did it. But, no more so than unauthorized release of classified information

by any official with a security clearance is a violation of the law if it's proven to be prejudicial to the US, and benefits a foreign government to the detriment of the US.

USC 18 USC § 798:

(a) Whoever knowingly and willfully communicates, furnishes, transmits, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or publishes, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States or for the benefit of any foreign government to the detriment of the United States any classified information—
(1) concerning the nature, preparation, or use of any code, cipher, or cryptographic system of the United States or any foreign government

< . . .>
(b) As used in subsection (a) of this section—

The term “classified information” means information which, at the time of a violation of this section, is, for reasons of national security, specifically designated by a United States Government Agency for limited or restricted dissemination or distribution;

Legally, here, the questions are the applicability and meaning in this specific context of the qualifying terms: prejudicial, benefit, and detriment.

[Vinnie From Indy]

8. The Black Knight