I've decided to become a Demotarian

[last1standing]

I've been a Democrat my entire life but now, thanks to the many wonderful folks on DU calling me a Libertarian, I've come to realize I'm actually a Demotarian.

From what I gather a Demotarian supports real safeguards against domestic spying instead of letting the republican who's been doing said spying set up a panel to discuss how to make said spying less offensive.

A Demotarian supports giving every US citizen a trial instead of killing them with remote controlled bombers based on secret information.

A Demotarian doesn't support double-taps.

A Demotarian doesn't support Chained CPI

A Demotarian believes that universal healthcare covers everybody.

Oddly, a Demotarian believes there are plenty of Democrats that can handle security positions. We don't need people like Clapper or Hagel to take them.

A Demotarian supports public schools, not charters

A Demotarian believes the War on Drugs has wiped out generations of talent and human rights so we won't terrorize states that reject it.

A Demotarian supports whistle-blowers and transparency.

A Demotarian would never force down the presidential airplane of an ally nation.

There are so many things that a Demotarian would do that are different from what is now considered a Democratic position that I can only thank the good people here at DU for repeatedly telling me I'm not a Democrat. Until they kindly informed me that Democrats now stand for warrantless domestic spying, unilateral murder of US citizens abroad, double-tapping rescue missions, lowering Social Security payments to seniors, leaving up to 20 million without healthcare, appointing republicans to the "serious" positions in government, breaking teachers unions, covering up illegal actions, and creating international incidents just to prove a point, I really thought I was one of them.

I am proud to say that I will never be that type of Democrat.

[Scootaloo]

1. I just call myself a leftist

Seems to get the point across rather nicely.

[last1standing]

3. Haven't you heard?

Us dirty leftists are now Libertarians as well. I don't know how it happened but I'm guessing it has to do with Rand Paul's dreamy hair.

[Scootaloo]

5. I don't worry about what other people call me, I worry about what I call myself

And admire Rand Paul for his hair. it takes a certain level of confidence to transpant hair from your crotch to your scalp. either way, it's covering nuts.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

7. That Rand comment is hilarious

[deurbano]

35. LOL! Did you make that up?

[Aerows]

36. DUzy!

LMFAO "Either way it's covering nuts".

[Jamastiene]

48. !

[Samantha]

93. Well I am a proud liberal and I certainly am not dirty

Rand Paul's hair wasn't that dreamy until he started to touch it up. At that moment, I knew he was going to make a run for President and I almost panicked at the thought.

The next time I saw him, I noticed he had some work done on his eyebrows and that cemented my earlier suspicions he was going to make a run. Republican politicians don't usually let go of a buck to get cosmetic improvements unless they are eyeballing the real estate at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

The idea of Rand Paul even thinking of residing there makes me ill, and I do not understand how any progressive could give him any encouragement.

Sam

[Savannahmann]

96. I've always like the term Liberal.

But I understand that isn't vogue now.

[Scootaloo]

103. Nah, it might imply you have a meaningful stance about something.

it's much more fashionable to not give a shit, but to talk like you do. So you have "progressive," the label of choice for those who want to be apathetic, but in a forward-leaning sort of way.

...This is half-joking, I know there are lots of truly earnest people who call themselves "progressives." I just really, really hate the term; to me it looks like an admission that "liberal" is indeed a dirty word.

[RC]

2. Count me in.

Too bad the Democrats stand for so many of the Republican values now a days.

[DissidentVoice]

55. They only do that because of "me too-ism."

Ever since the so-called "Reagan Revolution," but especially since the trouncing of Walter Mondale and Mike Dukakis (thank you, Lee Atwater), the Democratic Party has tried (and succeeded) in becoming "GOP lite."

The formation of the DLC was the ultimate in "me too-ism," except they called it "electability."

[RC]

69. They still call it "electability", like somehow anything Left of Center is somehow not electable.

But how would they know? They make sure we do not have that chance.
As things stand now, only a few people decide who we get to vote for. Those few only give lip service to anyone Left of Center. The rest get most of the positive exposure to ensure a better chance at being elected.

[sabrina 1]

86. They KNOW the country would vote for a real Democrat, like FDR if they got the chance so they

the install people in both parties now, to tell the lie that this is a Conservative country.

THEY are Conservative, because THEY care about two things, money and the power to use government to make it and keep it.

In polls that ask about issues, hands down Liberals win every time.

Time to stop buying the Bullshit and start working for real Democrats and stop donating to Party chosen Third Way candidates.

[Dragonfli]

77. I remember well how the Republicanisation of the party leadership began back then and observe

how successful it has been and continues to be growing a second GOP within even as it conspires to collaborate with the external GOP to enact Right wing legislature and policies.

The model on which the Democratic Leadership Council was built was the Coalition for a Democratic Majority. Founded by "Scoop" Jackson Democrats in response to George McGovern's massive loss to Richard Nixon in 1972, the CDM was dismayed by two presidential election losses and the organization's goal was to steer the party away from the New Left influence that had permeated the Democratic party since the late 1960s.

In the early 1980s, some of the youngest members of Congress, including Representative William Gray of Pennsylvania, Tim Wirth of Colorado, Al Gore of Tennessee, Richard Gephardt of Missouri, and Gillis Long of Louisiana helped found the House Democratic Caucus' Committee on Party Effectiveness. Formed by Long and his allies after the 1980 presidential election, the CPE hoped to become the main vehicle for the rejuvenation of the Democratic Party.[7] The CPE has been called "the first organizational embodiment of the New Democrats."[8]

The DLC started as a group of forty-three elected officials and two staffers, Al From and Will Marshall, and shared their predecessor's goal of reclaiming the Democratic Party from the left's influence prevalent since the late 1960s. Their original focus was to secure the 1988 presidential nomination of a southern conservative Democrat such as Nunn or Robb. After the success of Jesse Jackson, a vocal critic of the DLC, in winning a number of southern states in 1988's "Super Tuesday" primary, the group began to shift its focus towards influencing public debate. In 1989, Marshall founded the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank which has since turned out policy blueprints for the DLC. Its most extensive series of papers is the series of New Economy Policy Reports.

It is the opinion of the DLC that economic populism is not politically viable, citing the defeated Presidential campaigns of Senator George McGovern in 1972 and Vice-President Walter Mondale in 1984. The DLC states that it “seeks to define and galvanize popular support for a new public philosophy built on mainstream values, and innovative, non-bureaucratic, market-based solutions.

The Third Way/DLC political philosophy refers to various political positions which try to reconcile right-wing and left-wing politics by advocating a varying synthesis of right-wing economic and left-wing social policies.[1] Third Way was created in response to the right wing doctrine that doubts the economic viability of the state; economic interventionist policies that had previously been popularized by Keynesianism and contrasted with the corresponding rise of popularity for neoliberalism and the New Right.[2] The Third Way is promoted by some social democratic and social liberal movements but only shares common ground with other self proclaimed Dewmocrars on social issues alone, they are very right wing on everything else.

[sabrina 1]

81. Well, they've now had several decades to show us how beneficial their policies would be for the

country, and we've witnessed them in action. So what was 'new' back then, is not just 'old' right now, it is disastrous, not just for this country, but for the world.

So, it's past time to return to some mainstream, down to earth, policies are good for America and good for the rest of the world.

Sometimes these radical ideas have to play out before they become completely rejected. I think we are at that point now, and hopefully it will be a long time before anyone wants to go back to these horrible policies again.

They were bad ideas then, and they are worse now.

Time for something new and something that is actually successful.

[sgtbenobo]

4. I'm with you....

.... and my son says he'll hold our coats.


Carry on!

[Taverner]

6. I'm a leftist, but if you want my official title it's Anarcho-Socialist

[WinkyDink]

34. Don't you mean.....anarcho-syndicalist:

[Taverner]

40. I thought we were a fully autonomous anarcho syndicalist commune...

[NuclearDem]

8. I prefer socialist and civil libertarian.

Though I know using the L word is toxic.

[limpyhobbler]

9. This is the problem with labels. People never agree with what they mean.

I like your idea of inventing a new label, and giving it a clear definition, it's one way around that.

[last1standing]

11. Lol! They know we're not libertarians, they're trying to dehumanize us.

It's a basic propaganda tactic designed to make it easier to hate the enemy. If you can make people believe they're less than human they won't object so much when you ostracize them - or worse.

Since you can't argue issues or logic with propagandists, I'm finding it more effective to make fun of their talking points.

[Bunnahabhain]

37. It's only propaganda when it happens to you.

When you (rhetorical you) do it to the other side it's just "speaking truth to power."

[FirstLight]

10. maybe this will clear thing up

I hate being called names and labels too...
but I took this test and realized I am more Left then the lot of 'em!

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

[Mnpaul]

53. It doesn't take much

Just being left of center makes you more left than most of them. I'm just a little below and to the left of Nader

[truebluegreen]

60. I love this, but I must point out

that it is candidates from the 2008 election. In the 2012 election Obama's position had moved--based on his policies and actions--to right up there by Mittens.

Also want to point out that Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama are all clustered around Nader, Kucinich and you, Mnpaul.

Also want to point out that everyone I have shown this to, who has taken the test and found his or her own position on the graph, was lower down and to the left of our fearless leaders. Everyone. Including my bigoted anti-minority anti-gay redneck BIL in Alabama.

(One thing I've begged this site (politicalcompass.org) to do is include past leaders like FDR, Eisenhower, and Nixon to give us an historical perspective. But I think they are just a bunch of guys from the UK doing it for free...)

edited for spelling

[Mnpaul]

68. Your neighbor

could be a libertarian that is pro labor which would put him below and to the left of our fearless leaders. I don't remember how many questions dealt with race and homosexuality. It would also depend on how truthful he was in answering the questions. Some are in denial of their real positions on issues. Just look at the number of Republicans running around claiming that they aren't racist.

[truebluegreen]

75. Neighbor? I didn't mention a neighbor.

My BIL "could be" a pro-labor libertarian...except he isn't. And what I like about the test is the lack of labels and dog whistles, helped no doubt by the fact that it is a UK site.

My point--confirmed by everyone I know who has taken the test--is that the American public is solidly center-left no matter what the elites try to tell us. Even the nastiest bigot I know--named "Bubba"! and also from Alabama--was proud to proclaim his moderation in all things by producing his score "right in the crosshairs" (his words--also a gun nut).

[Mnpaul]

85. Sorry about that

Misread the post. I meant your BIL. The problem lies with the media. Only the authoritarian view gets airtime. If you questioned people on cutting S.S., you would probably get the same results, most people being to the left of our leaders. Same goes for "free trade."

[truebluegreen]

89. Yup, I agree.

I don't think the vast majority of the people of this country, particularly moderates and so-called conservatives have ANY idea what their own values are in terms of policy, and how that contrasts with their leaders.

That's the biggest problem because if they did know we would be headed off down a very different road.

[Comrade Grumpy]

73. Uh-oh. The only political figure near to my place on the chart is Ralph Nader.

And he's still more statist authoritarian and free market than I am.

I wonder where Bernie Sanders would fit on this.

[LostOne4Ever]

100. Woo hoo

Im practically touching the bottom now =D

Anarcho-liberal ftw!

http://www.politicalcompass.org/crowdchart.php?showform&Mitt+Romney=7.0%2C6.5&Barack+Obama=6.0%2C6.0&Virgil+Goode=9.0%2C9.0&Gary+Johnson=9.5%2C0.0&Rocky+Anderson=4.5%2C-2.0&Jill+Stein=-3.0%2C-3.0&Stewart+Alexander=-5.0%2C-2.0&You=-8.12%2C-9.54

[bravenak]

80. Whoa!

I'm at the bottom left hand corner. Left libertarian? I hate libertarians! So much self hate for me to deal with. I have to re assess.

[FirstLight]

83. LOL

don't be too hard on yourself...it's not worth it!

[G_j]

50. I like that. nt

[Jackpine Radical]

58. Like we used to say--If it feels good,

feel it.

[Whisp]

13. good, I hope this means you will no longer eat the figuritive meat off of Obama's bones

any longer.

[last1standing]

15. That sounds macabre, but slightly erotic.

Other than that, I can only guess that you're trying to bully me into submission and that's why I'm proud to be a Demotarian. We don't believe in your bullying tactics.

And I'd like to personally thank you for helping me, and others, realize that we have little in common with your New Democratic Party.

[Whisp]

18. Oh, I misunderstood you OP.

I thought you were becoming a Vegetarian! so sorry.

It's my party? Wow, where's the punch bowl?

[last1standing]

22. I've been locked out of the supplies cupboard so I can't tell you.

Demotarian Party members will drink straight from the bottle.

[JimDandy]

42. LOL

Great OP too.

[ZombieHorde]

29. Wait! We're only supposed to eat the figuritive meat?!

Another zombie party foul.

[ArsSkeptica]

14. With regard to the political compass

http://arsskeptica.wordpress.com/2013/01/05/your-humble-author-on-the-political-compass-where-are-you/

Where do Dems stand on the observation that Romney/Obama are nearly indistinguishable using this measure?

[Blue_In_AK]

45. I just took that test again.

I'm even more libertarian left than I was the last time I took it. I guess that makes me a demotarian, too. It is kind of disconcerting to see how close President Obama and Mitt Romney are on that chart. Both the exact opposite of me.

[truebluegreen]

63. Same here.

And every person I have shown this to has found him or herself well to the left of, and more libertarian than what they thought.

It is reflective of those polls that, minus conservative or liberal labels, show the American public to be solidly center left, while our leaders are at best center right.

[truebluegreen]

61. This "dem" stands with Political Compass

since (as stated above) in 2008 Candidate Obama's position was based on his campaign, and President Obama's 2012 position (as explained on the website) is based on his actions and policies.

It is exactly what many on this board and elsewhere have been complaining about for years, and especially lately. Call it an inconvenient truth.

[Rain Mcloud]

64. I have not taken this kind of test since i went insane in the 2000 election

[link:http://politicalcompass.org/printablegraph?ec=-7.75&soc=-6.31|

[Mnpaul]

87. I love the quiz you link to at the bottom of your post.

The first question is a good one.
http://politicalcompass.org/iconochasms

This guy being considered for anything shows us what we are up against.

[LostOne4Ever]

101. My opinion?

A combination of power corrupting and that there are certain political realities that force our politicians to push to the fascist right if they are to win an election.

However, all SCotUS justices Obama picks will be MUCH more liberal than any Romney would have picked and as the dems gain more power they will pull the country to the left.

Im also mindful of the fact that the long a party is in power the more authoritarian they become. So we got to stick to their asses like white on rice to keep them in line and not let them become too drunk with power.

[gulliver]

16. I wish every Demotarian had your class.

They could go start their own website and then all 20,000 of them nationwide would have a place to get the latest Demotarian news. Voters would also have a chance to see the Demotarian philosophy distilled in its pure form, not hampered by all of this Democratic criticism. Ed Snowden, Area 51 and Bigfoot would finally get the attention they deserve.

[last1standing]

19. To be fair, so far it looks like there are only four of us.

But we'll put your suggestions before our decision making committee as soon as we scrape up the funds for a table and chairs.

[WinkyDink]

26. So you think Edward Snowden is a mythical creature?

[gulliver]

30. Wait. What are trying to say about Bigfoot?

[WinkyDink]

49. Oops! *whistlesinnocently*

[uponit7771]

17. Great, sounds conservative enough to me

[Whisp]

20. Libertarians like Fuck Ron Paul

would totally erase Social Security and Road Warrior Mad Max world here we come, every man and woman and child for themselves and Let the Free Market Reign completely unfettered. Let it rain fire and brimstone on everyone and let gawd sort them out.

That tells you something right there about how well thought out this Grand Plan is. jaysus.

[last1standing]

21. Yes, universal healthcare is generally considered conservative.

As are trial before sentencing, public schools, social safety nets, and appointing Democrats to security positions.

Thank you for pointing out how little we Demotarians have in common with you liberal New Democrats.

[WinkyDink]

25. Public schools and universal health-care? Those are "conservative" faves?!

[JimDandy]

46. So, Liberal ideas are Conservative to you.

Sounds like drinking the kool-aid thinking to me.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. We represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party. nt.

[michigandem58]

24. PAUL / WARREN 2016

[Warren Stupidity]

27. nice smear of Senator Warren.

[arely staircase]

28. It sounds like you have been demoted.

[napoleon_in_rags]

102. Eh, better than "Libercrat". nt

[DevonRex]

31. I don't give a rat's ass what you call yourself.

Knock yourself out.

[totodeinhere]

111. Your comment is unnecessary snark. The OP gives every indication

of being a sincere caring person and that's all you can say to them?

[PowerToThePeople]

32. I guess I have been Demoted. n/t

[KittyWampus]

33. I other words, everyone has to have your stance on all the issues even in the face of a wellfunded

opposition party.

[RC]

43. Nice binary (b/w) response you have there.

"everyone" "has to have" "all" No wiggle room there.
"How Liberal is that", or how "New Democrat" is that? Two opposing answers.

[KittyWampus]

97. I am not the reptile here. Reread the OP.

[RC]

108. I did.

The OP does not sound anything like what a reptile would write. He sounds comfortably Liberal. Why do you have a problem with his points?

[NorthCarolina]

52. I would love to hear which of the issues in the OP,

related to what is posited as DEMOTARIAN VALUES, that you are NOT in agreement with.

[BOG PERSON]

39. why not just be a small-d democrat

instead of a big-d democrat

oops, that didn't come out right

[last1standing]

78. LOL! I think it came out just fine.

n/t

[jtuck004]

41. I just call myself an American. Seems to work. n/t

[loudsue]

44. Sign me up!! Democrats have gone so far to the right, I KNOW I'm not one of them anymore.

All those things a Demotarian supports, I support as well.

[MotherPetrie]

47. K&R

[Spitfire of ATJ]

51. And miss out on all the young people rediscovering the word "Liberal"?

[Rex]

62. LOL!

[Kennah]

54. Will explosives be issued in the Demotarian Party?

[last1standing]

76. You're thinking of the Demolitarian Party down the hall.

They have their own bathroom while we have to share with the Republocrats. You wouldn't believe the mess they leave behind.

[Egalitarian Thug]

82. I came in here for an argument.

[liberal_at_heart]

88. oh my gosh thank you so much for that. I love that bit.

[Mnpaul]

56. I can't believe it

Someone tried to hide a post by a Democrat promoting Democratic principles on a Democratic site. I guess the truth hurts.

[last1standing]

95. This is why I've become a Demotarian

It allows me to believe in democratic principles without having to fall in line with the New Democratic Party's agenda. I'm very grateful for those posters who called me a Paulbot. They really made a difference.

[Cryptoad]

57. Well since you have finally

come out of the Demotarian closet, would explain to us how lack of oversight of NSA by mostly GOP judges is the fault of the Democrats.

btw ,,, maybe yall should open your own web site,,,, the Demotarian Underground, or what ever!

[truebluegreen]

66. Maybe because they condoned it.

About the only people in government who have any credibility on this issue are Senators Mark Udall and Ron Wyden (and damn I wish we still had Russ Feingold in there).

[Cryptoad]

74. Condoning is a little

strong, The administration is a realist in how much power they have to deal with this issue. If you were the administration what course of action would you take?

[truebluegreen]

79. If I were the King of the Forest

I would start with the assumption that just because we can do a thing doesn't mean we should.

I would demand an immediate review of the procedures, the scope of the program, the Constitutionality, the protections, the costs, the possible abuses, everything...I'm guessing that, not being a crackpot realist, I would see the inherent dangers far out-weighing the possible returns.

And then I would go to Congress with what I had learned, lay it out and make the case for at least drastically rewriting the law. If it is as bad as my Senator (Mark Udall) seems to think I would push for repeal. If Congress won't go along (likely in this climate) I would rewrite the rules and direct monies elsewhere--the Executive Branch has a lot of leeway as to how it executes the laws.

What would you do?

p.s. "Silence gives Consent."

[Cryptoad]

84. Funny that

you assume the inherent dangers would far out weigh the possible returns before your study is complete. You know what they call that, heh?

But most of the things on you wish list have or are being done.

Funnier that that, is you then are going to go to Congress which has 2 people who might support your ideas and demand reform. I would bet the farm you would be impeached and your party would be farther into a death spiral with the American People than the GOP is now.

What would I do?
I am doing know..... fight the GOP with every oz of strength I have. I know that changes only comes in our system by playing the system from the inside. The true NSA oversight reform will not change until it becomes a liberal court. that will take many years of hard work and many battles.

Silence may be consent

but your own ignorance is your enemies strength
get real about how real change can take place.

[truebluegreen]

90. Damn right I would guess the inherent dangers far outweigh

Last edited Sun Aug 18, 2013, 10:58 PM - Edit history (1)

possible returns. History has taught me that and none of the current information contradicts it.

And you have an odd view of Congress if you think that the Senate, in Democratic hands, would choose to convict by a 2/3 vote after the House impeaches, which I grant you is a possibility--although with mixed feelings on both sides of the aisle over universal surveillance that is not a slam dunk. Two-thirds of the Senate can't even agree that the sky is blue. Furthermore, if the King of the Forest got on the airwaves and claimed to be protecting the people's rights not to have government sticking their noses in everywhere, do you seriously think that would be an unpopular position?

And spare me that my wish list is being done. Liar Clapper is going to appoint an independent commission? Puhleeze.

Funny that you would say "your party" instead of "our party". And your ad hominem slam is noted.

Welcome to DU.

[Cryptoad]

106. Thank you

Funny everything that doesn't agree with your position is a "ad hominem slam"

It was the fact that you order a study but already have made your conclusions that is the hypocrisy of your statement. (among others)

If you are going to post such flawed logic , expect somebody to point it out.

Welcome to the Real World!

[truebluegreen]

109. Reading comprehension must not be one of your strong points.

My "assumption" was to start from the position that just because we can do a thing (i.e. we have the technology) doesn't mean we should do it.

My "guess" as to what we would find in a study is A) a guess, and B) based on Real World realities known to every student of such programs: they are routinely abused and not nearly as efficacious as their proponents and profiteers claim.

Your concern that &quot my) own ignorance is (my) enemies strength" (sic) is noted.
Enjoy your stay.

[Cryptoad]

110. You are one writing

the post that reflects your lack of knowledge,, don't blame me.

btw , Your Hate is showing.

and your snark, i have already noted!

,,,,,,,bye

[liberal_at_heart]

65. great quote.

[Michigan-Arizona]

67. K&R n/t

[SidDithers]

70. Now all you need are a whole pile of Demotarian candidates...

running for the Demotarian Party, in elections across America.

You've got some work to do. Best get started right away.

Sid

[last1standing]

92. DU rec... n/t

Last

[joshcryer]

94. Yep.

The Libertarians are using this shit specifically to divide and conquer. There's not going to be a third party and the Democrats will eventually evolve to be the way we want. The reason the Democrats are forced to move to the right on social and economic issues are that the Republicans drive the social narrative and Libertarians drive the economic narrative. And we fall for it. Well, some of the little minded people who can't have a decent conversation and back up their pitiful positions anyway.

[liberal_at_heart]

71. I've decided to call myself an independent.

[Demo_Chris]

72. Works for me.

Hell, people can call me Libertarian if their minds are so narrow that they need tidy labels for everything. I don't march in lockstep with anyone.

[cascadiance]

91. Earlier, too many Democrats were abused by CointelPro. Too many today want to use it as a template!

Really hard when today's media doesn't want to make sure that history is known by those wanting to "revise" what it is to be a Democrat today.

[joshcryer]

98. +1

[ridhithomas]

99. nice to hear

LOL.
Glad to hear

[LostOne4Ever]

104. Left wing Libertarianism

[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]last1standing[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]I've been a Democrat my entire life but now, thanks to the many wonderful folks on DU calling me a Libertarian, I've come to realize I'm actually a Demotarian.

And what is wrong with being a libertarian? Or more precisely a LEFT WING libertarian? AKA Civil Libertarianism.

The traditional definition of term simply means "anti-authoritarian", and was used as an way of describing a left-wing liberal ideology. True libertarianism is the ideology exemplified by the ACLU which outdates the LP by around 40 years!!! Anywhere else in the world libertarianism describes a liberal philosophy. Hell, as recently as the 1970s libertarianism referred to a liberal position.

The right wing lying hypocrites hacks like the pauls have STOLEN the title from us and we should reclaim it! They LIE about supporting social liberties and then defend the most authoritarian of position by claiming states rights? Thats not libertarianism, that is pseudo position held by Republicans who want to smoke dope.

They DON'T SUPPORT ACTUAL LIBERTY!!! They are corrupting a great term to promote enslaving people to the will of corporations and the rich! They are the definition of authoritarian.

Everything you described is the position of left wing libertarianism. We don't need a new word for it, we need to reclaim a word that belongs to us!

[longship]

105. This thread is the type of respectful discussion that brings me back to DU.

Thank you for posting this. Not because I agree with you -- actually I probably do, but no matter -- but that you have framed your argument well and the discussion here has been appropriately respectful.

I am tiring of the name calling and ad hominem attacks here on DU. It is threads like this that bring me back.

Thanks. I tip my hat and raise my glass to you.

[Buddyblazon]

107. Welcome to the club...

there are many of us out here in the Mountain West. Have always called myself a Liberal because it's relative. In this region, it seems that most start as Libertarians, and lean either left or right from there.

I deal with national and international touring acts and when they come to our venue I greet their crews by saying, "Welcome to Colorado...where the Liberals love guns and the Conservatives smoke pot.". lol