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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsRoundup: You Won’t BELIEVE What’s Going On with Government Spying on Americans
This is a remarkable round-up of the situation. Each point contains one or more links (not included - click through to the original article to see them) giving the background on which it is based. The writer has really been doing his homework. The USA owes an enormous debt of gratitude to Snowden and Greenwald for tearing the lid off this putrid can of worms.
- Just weeks after NSA boss Alexander said that a review of NSA spying found not even one violation, the Washington Post published an internal NSA audit showing that the agency has broken its own rules thousands of times each year
- Each violation could have resulted in many Americans being spied upon. The ACLU notes, “some of these incidents seem to have implicated the privacy of thousands or millions of innocent people”
- EFF points out: “The thousands of violations only include the NSA’s main office in Maryland—not the other—potentially hundreds—of other NSA offices across the country. And even more importantly, the documents published by the Post reveal violations increasing every year”
- 2 Senators on the intelligence committee said the violations revealed in the Post article were just the “tip of the iceberg”
- Glenn Greenwald notes: “One key to the WashPost story: the reports are internal, NSA audits, which means high likelihood of both under-counting & white-washing”.(Even so, the White House tried to do damage control by retroactively changing on-the-record quotes)
- The government is spying on essentially everything we do. It is not just “metadata” … although that is enough to destroy your privacy
- The government has adopted a secret interpretation of the Patriot Act which allows it to pretend that “everything” is relevant … so it
spies on everyone - NSA whistleblowers say that the NSA collects all of our conversations word-for-word
- It’s not just the NSA … Many other agencies, like the FBI and IRS – concerned only with domestic issues – spy on Americans as well
- The information gained through spying is shared with federal, state and local agencies, and they are using that information to prosecute petty crimes such as drugs and taxes. The agencies are instructed to intentionally “launder” the information gained through spying, i.e. to pretend that they got the information in a more legitimate way … and to hide that from defense attorneys and judges
- Top counter-terror experts say that the government’s mass spying doesn’t keep us safe
- Indeed, they say that mass spying actually hurts U.S. counter-terror efforts.
- They say we can, instead, keep everyone safe without violating the Constitution … more cheaply and efficiently than the current system
- There is no real oversight by Congress, the courts, or the executive branch of government. And see this and this.
- Indeed, most Congress members have no idea what the NSA is doing. Even staunch defenders of the NSA now say they’ve been kept in the dark
- A Federal judge who was on the secret spying court for 3 years says that it’s a kangaroo court
- Even the current judges on the secret spying court now admit that they’re out of the loop and powerless to exercise real oversight
- A former U.S. president says that the spying program shows that we no longer have a functioning democracy
- The chairs of the 9/11 Commission say that NSA spying has gone way too far
- Top constitutional experts say that Obama and Bush are worse than Nixon … and the Stasi East Germans
- While the government initially claimed that mass surveillance on Americans prevented more than 50 terror attacks, the NSA’s deputy director John Inglis walked that position back all the way to saying that – at the most – one (1) plot might have been disrupted by the bulk phone records collection alone. In other words, the NSA can’t prove that stopped any terror attacks. The government greatly exaggerated an alleged recent terror plot for political purposes (and promoted the fearmongering of serial liars). The argument that recent terror warnings show that NSA spying is necessary is so weak that American counter-terrorism experts have slammed it as “crazy pants”
- Even President Obama admits that you’re much less likely to be killed by terrorists than a car accident. So the government has resorted to lamer and lamer excuses to try to justify mass surveillance
- Experts say that the spying program is illegal, and is exactly the kind of thing which King George imposed on the American colonists … which led to the Revolutionary War
- The top counter-terrorism Czar under Clinton and Bush says that revealing NSA spying programs does not harm national security
- The feds are considering prosecuting the owner of a private email company – who shut down his business rather than turning over records to the NSA – for refusing to fork over the information and keep quiet. This is a little like trying to throw someone in jail because he’s died and is no longer paying taxes
- Whistleblowers on illegal spying have no “legal” way to get the information out
- There are indications that the government isn’t just passively gathering the information … but is actively using it for mischievous purposes
- Spying started before 9/11 … and various excuses have been used to spy on Americans over the years
- Governments and big corporations are doing everything they can to destroy anonymity
- Mass spying creates an easy mark for hackers. Indeed, the Pentagon now sees the collection of “big data” as a “national security threat” … but the NSA is the biggest data collector on the planet, and thus provides a tempting mother lode of information for foreign hackers
- Mass surveillance by the NSA directly harms internet companies, Silicon Valley, California … and the entire U.S. economy. And see these reports from Boingboing and the Guardian
- IT and security professionals are quite concerned about government spying
- Some people make a lot of money off of mass spying. But the government isn’t using the spying program to stop the worst types of lawlessness
- Polls show that the public doesn’t believe the NSA … and thinks that the government has gone way too far in the name of terrorism
- While leaker Edward Snowden is treated as a traitor by the fatcats and elites, he is considered a hero by the American public
- Congress members are getting an earful from their constituents about mass surveillance
- The heads of the intelligence services have repeatedly been caught lying about spying. And even liberal publications are starting to say that Obama has been intentionally lying about spying
- Only 11% of Americans trust Obama to actually do anything to rein in spying
- A huge majority of Americans wants the director of intelligence – Clapper – prosecuted for perjury
- While the Obama administration is spying on everyone in the country – it is at the same time the most secretive administration ever (background). That’s despite Obama saying he’s running the most transparent administration ever
- A Congressman noted that – even if a mass surveillance program is started for good purposes – it will inevitably turn into a witch hunt
- Surveillance can be used to frame you if someone in government happens to take a dislike to you
- Government spying has always focused on crushing dissent … not on keeping us safe
- An NSA whistleblower says that the NSA is spying on – and blackmailing – top government officials and military officers (and see this)
- High-level US government officials have warned for 40 years that mass surveillance would lead to tyranny in America
- A top NSA whistleblower says that the only way to fix things is to fire all of the corrupt government officials who let it happen. As the polls above show, the American public is starting to wake up to that fact
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MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)
TheBlackAdder
(28,194 posts)
DJ13
(23,671 posts) 
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)a "terrorist" tomorrow?
RKP5637
(67,108 posts)understand that fact ... claiming they have nothing to hide. People are being digitized and quantized into packets/labels.
Autumn
(45,083 posts)mick063
(2,424 posts)We cannot proceed further without one.
Already, there are some within the GOP that have applied the label to people within the occupy movement and pro life movement.
The definition must be universally agreed upon. The definition cannot, must not be subject to change.
All of this massive infrastructure buildup can be used maliciously with the redefinition of a single, simple word.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)RKP5637
(67,108 posts)
caseymoz
(5,763 posts)You forgot to put the laughing icon at the end of that, I hope? Please tell me.
There's no way a definition is going to rein this in. People don't spend massive funds and commit such manpower to building a surveillance infrastructure like this when they have any intention of having it limited.
And even if they did, a one word definition is not going to stop people with access from being tempted, and that temptation will be constant, and will exert itself from the bottom of the chain of command to the top.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)As soon as the Patriot Act was available to read, I sat with a group of people who should have known. They were all enthusiastic. I was the only one who pointed out that the definition of terrorism, especially domestic terrorism, was vague and overly broad.
This is a major problem. How can anyone read that definition and not immediately see it has problems. It is so ambiguous as to be meaningless.
18 USC § 2331 - Definitions
5) the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that—
(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
(B) appear to be intended—
(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2331
OK. Driving while drunk is against the law and dangerous to human life. From then on, it all depends on the intention of the person committing the act. I can think of some pretty stupid scenarios that could qualify a person for a harrowing experience as a defendant in a terrorism case. Yet the man who shot Gabby Giffords was not tried as a terrorist. He may have been insane, but he had to know that he was shooting a member of Congress.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Maybe better to drop the term (not likely, of course) altogether. Call a bombing a bombing. A shooting a shooting.
A journalist a journalist.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Thank you, GliderGuider, for a Most Important Post.
The nation is being run into the ground by warmongers who use the spy machine to consolidate power and make a mint.
Money trumps peace is no way to run a democracy.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)
G_j
(40,367 posts)very helpful in understanding the course of revelations.
Rex
(65,616 posts)nt.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)Demo_Chris
(6,234 posts)
wtmusic
(39,166 posts)
onyourleft
(726 posts)...so much for posting.
Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)Great find!
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Great Compilation all in one convenient spot.
Thanks.
It is UNDENIABLE, yet some still try.
You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)
pansypoo53219
(20,976 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)The reporter is the same James Risen the Obama administration is working to prosecute for doing his job as a reporter.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/10/james-risen-prison-journalism-criminalised
That's not exactly respecting the First Amendment, the rest of the Bill of Rights or the Constitution, let alone democracy in action.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)Valhallakey
(70 posts)I believe I know the answers but lack anything definitive other than no denials...
Are we collecting everything including content of phone conversations, emails etc? The NSA admits to analyzing only the meta data without warrant, however if a warrant is obtained does the NSA have access to content of phone conversations, emails etc... that has potentially been collected for years and kept ready just in case?
Are we using the British Intelligence services to spy on US citizens without any of the legal hassles that impede our government from doing so?
Response to Valhallakey (Reply #24)
Name removed Message auto-removed
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)these points and not see the danger of the NSA spying is beyond me.
Why hasn't there been more whistleblowers? Blackmail?
easychoice
(1,043 posts)This realllly sucks!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempora
tblue
(16,350 posts)that is a Tea Party site.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Washington's Blog is liberal, progressive, and a lot more of whatever it ain't tea party.
Detroit: Government Chooses Big Banks Over the American People Once Again
http://www.globalresearch.ca/detroit-government-chooses-big-banks-over-the-american-people-once-again/5346143
The tax dodging bastards who pay for the Tea Party racists are why Detroit is in the condition it's in.
tblue
(16,350 posts)when I clicked on the op link earlier, it said "Tea Party Patriots" at the top of the page. Now I looked again and it doesn't. I thought I must be going 
. So I googled around and found the same blog post is different kinds of sites--Tea Party, Freep, and some more liberal sites too. So what I first saw about the TP must've been an ad, unless I was temporarily insane. Haha.
The reason I didn't put "Tea Party" in my previous post's subject line is because I agree with the op. My intention was to post a headsup to the original poster.
Anyway, keep fighting the good fight.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)...I appreciate the heads-up. Several important sources and many good DUers have been thrown under the bus because they've been accused of being greens, anarchists, conspiracy theorists, etc. The liars who falsely accuse are most un-democratic.
Please forgive me for jumping on your post. In so doing, I did what they do.
tblue
(16,350 posts)You and I are pretty simpatico. It's getting awfully crowded here under the bus, but that's where all the fun, sharp, witty, and freethinking people are.
Response to tblue (Reply #29)
rhett o rick This message was self-deleted by its author.
Valhallakey
(70 posts)Why do you think the founders of this country put in the 4th amendment to the Constitution?
After the war for independence was fought the US Constitution was adopted with the very important 4th amendment. Certainly it would have benefited the founders of this country to be able to search everyone's homes and papers and shop keeper records to see whom was collaborating with or whose sympathies lay with the British after we had won our freedom from Britain. Even more so during the war of 1812 since this was a time with really serious enemies with troops on the ground in the US capable of taking over cities or whole states. So why was the 4th amendment so important? If people were not supporting the enemy then why would this amendment be so important? Are there fundamental elements to being free that cannot be encroached upon? Are we the "Land of the surveilled home of the scared or are we brave enough as a nation to truly live with the liberties defined in our Constitution and paid for many times over with the blood of our troops? Or is the 4th amendment an antiquated idea from another era and we cannot afford to live up to the intent of this ideal?
chimpymustgo
(12,774 posts)is a critical element of any need for the government to conduct a search.
And I think you know "the age of terror" is a manufactured pile of crap to extort and intimidate the rest of us. We WILL not surrender our constitutional rights.
And welcome to DU.
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)"It's time we stopped, hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look what's goin' down..."
dixiegrrrrl
(60,010 posts)The "big picture"...really sucks, but I am not the least surprised.
whttevrr
(2,345 posts)A unique IP address for every device connected to the web, broken down by continent, region, ISP, and locality.
2^128 unique addresses to serve them all. Your device MAC address becomes a part of your IP address.
YOU: "It wasn't me officer!"
OFFICER: "Well, according to our records, you bought that tablet on April 7th, 2013 with your Hello Kitty Bank of America Mastercard and accessed the local network on june 17th, 2013 to post on the terrorist website Democratic Underground, your recipe for snickerdoodles. Are you denying this?"
leftstreet
(36,108 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)
Catherina
(35,568 posts)
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)NoMoreWarNow
(1,259 posts)so obviously this invalidates the content.... wait, no one said that yet?
I'm shocked! 
Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Civilization2
(649 posts)I am less concerned with the "legal" or admitted uses of these corporate-military systems, than I am with how they can be, are, and will be used covertly to disrupt and destroy all opposition to the fascist bankster agenda. Reporter dies in fiery car wreck after posting about hot new lead on developing story about government,. protest groups infiltrated and made ineffectual, and dissolved,. political opponent of bankster agenda exposed in scandal,. etc. all these are the types of spook crap that keeps the 1% running the show. MKULTRA is well documented; We KNOW this is how the left was crushed back in the 60/70s and we can assume ever since. These new powers of the police state and their corporate-mercenaries will just make ever rebuilding a democracy fully impossible. Having nothing to hide as nothing to do with it.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)think_critically
(118 posts)The NSA by nature is going to spy on communications. Period. That is what they do. For all of the people who are upset by this stuff do you think we should just eliminate the NSA all together. Should we have no government agency looking at communications that have anything to do with American's. I say lets end it all and just let the chips fall where they may.
On the Road
(20,783 posts)That kind of puts it in context.
panader0
(25,816 posts)FreakinDJ
(17,644 posts)
Squinch
(50,949 posts)through the nose for all these disturbing developments.
JEB
(4,748 posts)Way past time for a major house cleaning, top to bottom.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I was thinking of posting a timeline with revelations, but this is even better because it covers most of the subjects.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)A couple of great points, a few decent ones, a few too laughably over-the-top to take seriously (Stasi comparisons? jesus.h.christ!) and the remaining two-thirds are things we already knew even long before Snowden came on the scene...
GliderGuider
(21,088 posts)Okey-dokey then, I'll go back to sleep now.
frylock
(34,825 posts)The National Security Agency's domestic surveillance capabilities would have been "a dream come true" for East Germany, a former lieutenant colonel in the defunct communist country's secret police told Matthew Schofield of McClatchy.
The Stasi was one of the most effective and repressive intelligence and secret police agencies in the world.
Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal called them "worse than the Gestapo," referring to the secret police of Nazi Germany.
“You know, for us, this would have been a dream come true,” Wolfgang Schmidt said. “So much information, on so many people.”
<more>
http://www.businessinsider.com/stasi-talks-about-nsa-surveillance-state-2013-6#ixzz2cQrll7OF
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)But just because a former East German is impressed with modern technology, it doesn't necessarily mean that NSA=Stasi...The Stasi's tactics and methodologies went far, far beyond massive data collection (not to mention their purposes were completely different) and to compare the two merely cheapens the ordeal of those who had to suffer every day under them....
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)never happened?
I am more worried about what we still havent found out. Give some conservative authoritarians an unlimited budget and limited oversight, I expect the worse. In almost every administration there have been dirty tricksters. And if it makes a difference, Pres Obama was/is probably kept in the dark about what these spy agencies are doing. But they are spy agencies with unlimited budgets ripe for corruption.
Democracy and authoritarianism dont mix.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)Without the added hyperbole and embellishment...Whoever typed that didn't take the time to seperate fact from speculative opinion...
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)I would be very interested in seeing that. I think there are a lot of valid points expressed in the OP and personally dont mind the speculation.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)seriously?
paranoia runs deep!
TM99
(8,352 posts)this is a list of actual FACTS.
I have been informed over and over on DU that there are no facts to back up Snowden, Greenwald, and the Paulbots. 
Well done! I have bookmarked this for future reference. Thanks.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)Exactly!
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)