Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:36 PM

jazzimov (1,456 posts)

The Democratic Party is a Big Tent

There is no “purity test” to be a Democrat. When people start talking about a “True Democrat”, they need to read up on The No True Scotsman Fallacy.

The fact is that we NEED the DLC, the Centrists, and all the other types of Democrats. Although you personally may not agree with some of their stances, remember that if you are a free-thinker then NO ONE will agree with everything you stand for.

If someone disagrees with you, then you must at least try to change their mind. If someone is diametrically opposed to a particular stance, it’s must more difficult than some who is closer to your stance. Which means that it is much easier to convince someone who is a Centrist than someone who is extremely Right Wing. BUT do not begin your debate by denigrating them and calling them names. ESPECIALLY do not call someone names or try to lump them into a particular group simply because they disagree with you on a single point. DO NOT simply dismiss them because they disagree with you on a single point. They may actually agree with you on every other point and potentially could be a powerful ally.

It is also important that you LISTEN to their points. This is important for several reasons - the most important one I can think of is that everyone wants to feel that they are being LISTENED to. The second, IMHO, is that it gives you leverage in the debate, so that you can understand what is the most important point to them personally, and try to refute that point. There are many more advantages to this tactic that I will leave to others to point out.

Finally, argue with LOGIC and FACTS. Be prepared that FACTS can change, as more about a certain issue is revealed. This is where it can really get tricky. Don’t be prepared to accept FACTS at face value, although you may be forced to argue against the facts that are presented. If the facts presented don’t fit the logical narrative, then there may be more facts presented in the future OR the facts are being misrepresented. The latter is the most commonly used tactic by idealists on both sides. This is commonly known as “spin”. It is our job to make sure that ALL the facts are available.

Also, remember that the majority of Independent voters are Centrist. We need those Independent Centrists to win elections. Many people consider this as “voting for the lesser of 2 evils”. Again, I refer the reader back to my earlier statement that NO-ONE will match all of your ideals. Which means that no matter who you vote for, it will ALWAYS be the lesser of 2 evils in your mind., since they will never match all of your ideals unless you are a “lock-step” or single-issue voter.

If we try to impose purity tests as the Right wing has done, we will end up breaking into different factions with no power. Although the majority of US citizens support Liberal policies, we will be broken up into smaller factions which are powerless against the minority. Just as a for instance, let’s say that the Socialist Party gets 20%. The Green Party gets 20%. The Democratic Party gets 20%. That means that 60% of the population supports some kind of Liberal Agenda, although it doesn’t agree on the what the Liberal Agenda should be. Meanwhile, the unified Right Wing gets 40%, which means they win.

Perhaps we should change the Electoral Process - I would support that. BUT, we have to WIN in order to impose that change.

BOTTOM LINE - if we want effective change, we must win elections. Period. If we want to change peoples minds, then we must do so individually, with logic, and recognize that no everyone will agree with us. TO CHANGE THEIR MINDS we must first LISTEN to them, and then challenge their belief system armed with LOGIC and facts.

But we HAVE to win elections. Sorry if that contradicts your preferences, but welcome to reality!

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70 replies	Author	Time	Post
The Democratic Party is a Big Tent (Original post)	jazzimov	Aug 2013	OP
There are two parties, the Democratic Party is not required to make room for members of the other	sabrina 1	Aug 2013	#1
This message was self-deleted by its author	Adam051188	Aug 2013	#5
No, not "required"	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#6
Well, that's different. I'm all for working with other Parties and supporting any good ideas they	sabrina 1	Aug 2013	#69
Wrong. We don't "need" the DLC. That's what the GOP is for.	NorthCarolina	Aug 2013	#2
Damn right!	hobbit709	Aug 2013	#3
Amd that tells me that you are exaclty	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#9
I just want to see the Democratic Party return to advocating for the public.	NorthCarolina	Aug 2013	#12
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#14
The ideology and personal convictions of these folks will not change,	NorthCarolina	Aug 2013	#16
So it seems that you WILL not change your mind	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#61
+1	forestpath	Aug 2013	#20
+1 Reagan Democrats can return to the GOP soon	leftstreet	Aug 2013	#49
The DLC is NOT the GOP.	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#66
Their economic policies are pretty similar	Mojorabbit	Aug 2013	#68
Sorry. Anybody who comes in here with a misogynistic or homophobic or anti-repro-choice	kestrel91316	Aug 2013	#4
I can understand most of that,	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#17
Do you not understand that "both barrels" is a figure of speech and not to be taken literally.	kestrel91316	Aug 2013	#47
there comes a point where in standing for everything and everyone, you end up standing for nothing	quinnox	Aug 2013	#7
that is a very good point	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#27
Getting there will probably be a long and slow process	quinnox	Aug 2013	#39
I don't mind their "stances". It's what they do when elected.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Aug 2013	#8
And what do you expect when they are elected?	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#29
I expect them to do what 3d Way politicians do. Collaborate with their pals across the aisle.	Tierra_y_Libertad	Aug 2013	#50
I don't need the DLC at all seeing as how I am no longer a democrat. I am free to vote for	liberal_at_heart	Aug 2013	#10
Then why are you posting on DEMOCRATIC Underground?	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#30
you do realize there are independents on this message board right? Independents just waiting for a	liberal_at_heart	Aug 2013	#31
I want those things, too	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#67
Many DUers would rather lose elections...	SidDithers	Aug 2013	#11
Some people live miserable lives	zappaman	Aug 2013	#15
True dat! n/t	FSogol	Aug 2013	#19
Some people live in the real world	Fumesucker	Aug 2013	#33
And a very few DUers have no stake at all and simply stir up shit for their own amusement. n/t	Egalitarian Thug	Aug 2013	#25
Everyone needs a hobby I guess. I think I shall become an avid fan of curling star elections	Dragonfli	Aug 2013	#42
ROTFLMAO! Well done!	Egalitarian Thug	Aug 2013	#52
Some of you people are comedy gold...nt	SidDithers	Aug 2013	#53
You are exactly right.	Summer Hathaway	Aug 2013	#45
Interesting	Andy823	Aug 2013	#51
A lot of independent voters are "moderate", but NOT corporatist (unlike the DLC "moderates")...	cascadiance	Aug 2013	#13
No, the DLC needs us to win elections. We don't need them for anything. nt	bemildred	Aug 2013	#18
The DLC needs us, true -	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#34
For what? The country is just awash already in corrupt venal politicians. nt	bemildred	Aug 2013	#35
Sure, lets kowtow to the DLC. We NEED them, right?	Deny and Shred	Aug 2013	#60
Big tent, my ass. I will never vote for anti-choice candidate. Period.	forestpath	Aug 2013	#21
OK, then, Democratic Party. Bye!	MotherPetrie	Aug 2013	#22
Then you never supported the Democratic Party.	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#36
Actually, the person you should address your comments to is the OP, who is eager	MotherPetrie	Aug 2013	#38
LOL! I am the OP!	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#64
here we go yet again. If we don't vote for your candidate then we are aiding the enemy.	liberal_at_heart	Aug 2013	#40
You're correct, other things being equal -- but other things aren't equal	Jim Lane	Aug 2013	#23
Thank you, although I have to disagee	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#43
Thank you for so clearly demonstrating why there is no hope within the system.	Egalitarian Thug	Aug 2013	#24
yeah it's pretty evident that the people in government right now both republican and democrat care	liberal_at_heart	Aug 2013	#26
Exactly. There is no other occupation I can think of where the rewards are so large, the risks	Egalitarian Thug	Aug 2013	#32
The Democratic Party IS a Big Tent, but	bvar22	Aug 2013	#28
You're right, jazzimov	Summer Hathaway	Aug 2013	#37
This is, unfortunately, a very accurate assessment.	CakeGrrl	Aug 2013	#44
Exactly, CakeGrrl.	Summer Hathaway	Aug 2013	#48
You had some of these folks actually saying that Obama was going to lose last year	Number23	Aug 2013	#58
This should be an OP...	SidDithers	Aug 2013	#54
In another DU world	Summer Hathaway	Aug 2013	#56
I think I love you.	Number23	Aug 2013	#57
Message auto-removed	Name removed	Aug 2013	#41
This OP makes me think of the Grand Bargain	mick063	Aug 2013	#46
Then don't bitch when you lose	jazzimov	Aug 2013	#65
I shall bitch as I please	mick063	Aug 2013	#70
Couldn't have said it better myself,	Jamaal510	Aug 2013	#55
The reality is that	LWolf	Aug 2013	#59
Me either, they lay down too easy for big money.	Rex	Aug 2013	#62
The only purity test is this: Demo-crat	AZ Progressive	Aug 2013	#63

Response to jazzimov (Original post)

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:37 PM

sabrina 1 (62,325 posts)

1. There are two parties, the Democratic Party is not required to make room for members of the other

Party, they have their own party. And what does 'winning' mean to you btw?

The Democratic Party is a Big Tent

1. There are two parties, the Democratic Party is not required to make room for members of the other

6. No, not "required"

69. Well, that's different. I'm all for working with other Parties and supporting any good ideas they

2. Wrong. We don't "need" the DLC. That's what the GOP is for.

3. Damn right!

9. Amd that tells me that you are exaclty

12. I just want to see the Democratic Party return to advocating for the public.

16. The ideology and personal convictions of these folks will not change,

61. So it seems that you WILL not change your mind

20. +1

49. +1 Reagan Democrats can return to the GOP soon

66. The DLC is NOT the GOP.

68. Their economic policies are pretty similar

4. Sorry. Anybody who comes in here with a misogynistic or homophobic or anti-repro-choice

17. I can understand most of that,

47. Do you not understand that "both barrels" is a figure of speech and not to be taken literally.

7. there comes a point where in standing for everything and everyone, you end up standing for nothing

27. that is a very good point

39. Getting there will probably be a long and slow process

8. I don't mind their "stances". It's what they do when elected.

29. And what do you expect when they are elected?

50. I expect them to do what 3d Way politicians do. Collaborate with their pals across the aisle.

10. I don't need the DLC at all seeing as how I am no longer a democrat. I am free to vote for

30. Then why are you posting on DEMOCRATIC Underground?

31. you do realize there are independents on this message board right? Independents just waiting for a

67. I want those things, too

11. Many DUers would rather lose elections...

15. Some people live miserable lives

19. True dat! n/t

33. Some people live in the real world

25. And a very few DUers have no stake at all and simply stir up shit for their own amusement. n/t

42. Everyone needs a hobby I guess. I think I shall become an avid fan of curling star elections

52. ROTFLMAO! Well done!

53. Some of you people are comedy gold...nt

45. You are exactly right.

51. Interesting

13. A lot of independent voters are "moderate", but NOT corporatist (unlike the DLC "moderates")...

18. No, the DLC needs us to win elections. We don't need them for anything. nt

34. The DLC needs us, true -

35. For what? The country is just awash already in corrupt venal politicians. nt

60. Sure, lets kowtow to the DLC. We NEED them, right?

21. Big tent, my ass. I will never vote for anti-choice candidate. Period.

22. OK, then, Democratic Party. Bye!

36. Then you never supported the Democratic Party.

38. Actually, the person you should address your comments to is the OP, who is eager

64. LOL! I am the OP!

40. here we go yet again. If we don't vote for your candidate then we are aiding the enemy.

23. You're correct, other things being equal -- but other things aren't equal

43. Thank you, although I have to disagee

24. Thank you for so clearly demonstrating why there is no hope within the system.

26. yeah it's pretty evident that the people in government right now both republican and democrat care

32. Exactly. There is no other occupation I can think of where the rewards are so large, the risks

28. The Democratic Party IS a Big Tent, but

37. You're right, jazzimov

44. This is, unfortunately, a very accurate assessment.

48. Exactly, CakeGrrl.

58. You had some of these folks actually saying that Obama was going to lose last year

54. This should be an OP...

56. In another DU world

57. I think I love you.

46. This OP makes me think of the Grand Bargain

65. Then don't bitch when you lose

70. I shall bitch as I please

55. Couldn't have said it better myself,

59. The reality is that

62. Me either, they lay down too easy for big money.

63. The only purity test is this: Demo-crat