Detention of Greenwald's husband 'extraordinary', says UK Chairman of Home Affairs Select Committee

[Catherina]

Detention of Guardian journalist's partner 'extraordinary', says Keith Vaz

Senior MP to seek explanation from police after detention of Glenn Greenwald's partner, David Miranda, at Heathrow airport

Alexandra Topping and Guardian staff
theguardian.com, Monday 19 August 2013 08.46 BST

...

(The chairman of the home affairs select committee) Keith Vaz called the detention of Miranda "extraordinary" and said he would be writing immediately to police to request information about why Miranda was held under anti-terrorism laws when there appeared to be little evidence that he was involved in terrorism.

...

Vaz said he was not aware that personal property could be confiscated under the laws. "What is extraordinary is they knew he was the partner (of Greenwald) and therefore it is clear not only people who are directly involved are being sought but also the partners of those involved," he said. "Bearing in mind it is a new use of terrorism legislation to detain someone in these circumstances (...) I'm certainly interested in knowing, so I will write to the police to ask for the justification of the use of terrorism legislation – they may have a perfectly reasonable explanation. But if we are going to use the act in this way ... then at least we need to know so everyone is prepared."

...

Widney Brown, Amnesty International's senior director of international law and policy, said:

"It is utterly improbable that David Michael Miranda, a Brazilian national transiting through London, was detained at random, given the role his partner has played in revealing the truth about the unlawful nature of NSA surveillance.

"David's detention was unlawful and inexcusable. He was detained under a law that violates any principle of fairness and his detention shows how the law can be abused for petty, vindictive reasons.

"There is simply no basis for believing that David Michael Miranda presents any threat whatsoever to the UK government. The only possible intent behind this detention was to harass him and his partner, Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald, for his role in analysing the data released by Edward Snowden."

...

Labour MP Tom Watson said he was shocked at the news and called for it to be made clear if any ministers were involved in authorising the detention.

He said: "It's almost impossible, even without full knowledge of the case, to conclude that Glenn Greenwald's partner was a terrorist suspect.

"I think that we need to know if any ministers knew about this decision, and exactly who authorised it."

...

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/19/detention-david-miranda-keith-vaz-glenn-greenwald?CMP=twt_fd

[last1standing]

1. This can't be right! Miranda's a TERRORIST!

Why else would they have detained him under the Terrorist Act?

I'm going find a way to make up an insult out of Keith Vas's name now to PROVE that Miranda's a terrorist. Then I'll post a bunch of smilies to show that I'm laughing at anyone who disagrees with me.

Finally, I'll head over to the BOG and post about how everyone at DU is so mean to me.

I love adult politics.

[Catherina]

4. Don't forget Tom Watson lol

Labour's Tom Watson demanded answers from the Prime Minister

The Guardian has also published stories about blanket electronic surveillance by Britain's GCHQ based on documents from Mr Snowden.

A Guardian spokesperson said: "We were dismayed that the partner of a Guardian journalist who has been writing about the security services was detained for nearly nine hours while passing through Heathrow airport.

"We are urgently seeking clarification from the British authorities."

On Twitter, influential Labour MP Tom Watson demanded answers from Prime Minister David Cameron about what ministers knew of Mr Miranda's detention.

...

http://news.sky.com/story/1130270/heathrow-glenn-greenwald-partner-questioned

Heck, while you're at it, don't forget EU Parliament members either. Hannes Swoboda is already on it.

[Vinnie From Indy]

32. What is the BOG?

Cheers!

[last1standing]

33. In Britain it's slang for a toilet.

I'm not entirely sure we shouldn't use the same slang at DU.

[Dragonfli]

38. Not sure, but based entirely on the comments made by those that claim to be Boggers

I would guess Bieberesque Orwellian Groupies.

They swoon and swarm, love domestic spying, free trade, Republicans in charge of cabinet positions and appear to hate whistle blowers almost as much as they love bankers like Larry Summers.

They prefer least untruthful lies to statements of truth and appear to think neoliberalism is a progressive trait.

They may not even exist outside of some DU urban legend. If you can learn the truth of this likely fictitious subset, please enlighten me as I am also curious.

[LondonReign2]

40. Well done

[dtom67]

2. to me, the use of the terror law in this manner

Is the only interesting part of the story. The Nanny - Cam crowd can attack the players all they want; the exposure of the surveillance state remains the main story. They can try to change the focus all they want.

This clearly shows the intentional deprivation of civil liberties.


Hell, even the garbage cans spy on you in London.........

[Catherina]

5. +1. The abuse of the terror laws in this new world is the whole point

Not pole-dancing, not Greenwarld, but their abuse of terror laws they imposed on us. This thing isn't going away any time soon.

[Swagman]

18. the UK is the Surveilance State

[ljm2002]

37. I misread your statement:

"This clearly shows the intentional deprivation of civil liberties."

as

"This clearly shows the international deprivation of civil liberties."

which also works.

Also to me, it illustrates where we are going, as the multinationals continue to take the reins of power, IMO. Nation states have served their people to some extent; multinationals will never do that. Yet they continue to buy governments and dictate policy and there seems to be little will to stop them, since the politicians here and abroad are in their pockets, and the people are kept ignorant of who really wields power in this brave new world.

[randome]

3. Being in receipt of stolen material DOES require confiscation.

It would be the same for trying to smuggle a weapon through the U.K. as it would be for trying to smuggle national security documents.

Pontificating politicians in the U.K. do not make reliable sources of information any more than they do in the U.S.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[last1standing]

6. Then why not hold him under suspicion of smuggling classified documents?

I'm sure there's a law in Great Britain covering this practice. Why hold him under the Terrorism Act?

[randome]

8. How would I know? Either way, you stop someone entering the country with stolen material.

Maybe Miranda was especially uncooperative until he learned he would be formally charged if he didn't hand over the material. Maybe he clutched those thumb drives firmly in his hands and refused to let go.

My guess is that stretching his detention out to the maximum of nine hours was as much his fault as anyone else's. Maybe he hoped Greenwald would be able to ride to his rescue or something. It's possible he could have said, "It's a fair cop" and been cleared to go after an hour if he had handed over the stolen material.

That's just conjecture on my part.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]The truth doesn’t always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one you’re already in.[/center][/font][hr]

[last1standing]

14. Thanks for stating that your comments are conjecture.

No snark there, I seriously do appreciate it as so many state conjecture as absolute fact.

But even taking your conjecture and assuming it as fact, there was still no reason to use the Terrorism Act to detain him that I can see other than intimidation purposes (conjecture on my part). It seems equivalent to arresting a pot smoker for murder.

These laws are outrageously bad. They allow governments a legal way to intimidate and bully individuals without recourse. I can't speak for Great Britain but the Patriot Act must go.

[justiceischeap]

20. 'Cause apparently that falls under the "Terrorism" umbrella

if it's bad or threatening or embarrassing, it's terrorism. The thing is, people, I think, are getting tired of things being done under the moniker of terrorism. And this was blazingly obvious what it was all about.

[last1standing]

21. I have to agree that Miranda was terrorized so if that's the purpose of the law, it worked.

n/t

[morningfog]

12. It is nothing like trying to smuggle a weapon.

[muriel_volestrangler]

28. I don't think what Greenwald of Poitras has is 'stolen', under English law

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3488096

A comparison to smuggled weapons is absurd. Notice that the police have never claimed this was about looking for stolen material.

It's not just politicians:

The Independent Reviewer of Terrorism legislation, David Anderson QC, told the BBC it was very unusual for a passenger to be held for nine hours under schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act 2000 and he wanted to "get to the bottom" of what had happened.

He said he has asked the Home Office and Scotland Yard for a full briefing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23750289

[randome]

34. The optics of holding him for the maximum amount of time are bad.

That's why I suspect Miranda had as much to do with the length of time as anything. But details are only now starting to trickle in so let's see how it shakes out.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Don't ever underestimate the long-term effects of a good night's sleep.[/center][/font][hr]

[Bolo Boffin]

7. It was a thuggish, dickish thing for the UK authorities to do.

As John Cole said over at Balloon Juice:

But seriously, what is going on is not right, not normal, and not permissible. Even if it is legal and even if Glenn Greenwald is the biggest flaming asshole to ever walk the earth...

Detaining David Miranda like that was inexcusable. Holding him for exactly as long as they could without charges and then releasing him is open harassment. I'm glad to know that some people in the British government are trying to hold these people accountable.

[morningfog]

11. Totally agreed.

[LeftishBrit]

19. Indeed.

[idwiyo]

9. K&R

[David Krout]

10. Snowden should have gone to a law-abiding country such as the UK instead of Russia! nt

[darkangel218]

15. Yah right?

What was he thinking!!!11

[Turbineguy]

13. Will he jump up on the table and rip off all his clothes?

No, I think what we need here is more hysteria.

[oberliner]

16. Husband?

He's never referenced him that way.

[Laughing Mirror]

22. Miranda was called Greenwald's "companion" in the French paper

where I first read this story:

http://www.liberation.fr/monde/2013/08/19/affaire-snowden-vives-protestations-apres-l-arrestation-du-compagnon-d-un-journaliste-du-guardian_925575

I have not heard Greenwald refer to Miranda as his companion, either. Have you?

[oberliner]

24. Partner seems to be the word he uses

I wonder if its a language thing with that French paper.

[Laughing Mirror]

27. Amnesty International quoted in French paper says "mari" (husband), as well

And that French paper also calls Miranda Greenwald's "ami."

So if your question is where does the signification of husband come from, who knows? Maybe it comes from Miranda. Perhaps Miranda calls Greenwald his husband. Perhaps they are married. Is this that important, really?

[oberliner]

43. Not a huge deal - just jumped out at me

I hadn't seen that word used in that context before. Not that important though.

[Catherina]

44. I know he uses the word partner but that word covers married people too

David is his husband. Our backwardness with same-sex marriage was the reason he moved to Brazil. I used "husband" because I'm sick of seeing David referred to as his "boyfriend".

Example here: "Glenn Greenwald: Answers Demanded After Journalist's Boyfriend Detainment"

[Downwinder]

17. Anyone who embarrasses the state or disturbs the status quo is a terrorist.

[xchrom]

23. du rec.

[Demeter]

25. There's Only One Person Stupid Enough to Have Ordered This

He who Must Not Be Named in a Negative Context on DU, for Fear of Retribution.

Who else has shown such petty vengefulness, such fits of pique? Who else has the power and the motivation? Who else hates Snowden with an all-burning passion, so that even HWMNBNIANCODU's wife must be getting jealous...

[msanthrope]

29. Who are you talking about? nt

[morningfog]

30. It seems clear that the poster is referring to Obama.

Although, I think they overstate Obama's position, I don't doubt that the US was involved in this.

[LondonReign2]

41. Agreed

While the poster is referencing Obama, it would more likely have been triggered by Alexander. Or even the British spooks themselves -- although most of the kerfluffle has been focused on the US, the UK is fully complicit in the spying as well.

[snooper2]

42. RedneckRickem?

[WillyT]

26. K & R !!!

[snappyturtle]

31. Thanks Catherina. K&R

I think David Miranda's name showed up on a "list". I'm assuming
he has no criminal record so I have to wonder why he would be on
a list other than his association with Greenwald. And, why didn't
the German or Brazilian authorities stop him? Hmm. I'm also assuming
Miranda flew to London on his way to Berlin. No trouble then?? Maybe
the intelligence community wasn't yet aware he had left Brazil....just
intriquing. Will be interesting to learn more facts.

Here's hoping this detainment angers the British citizens.

[Catherina]

36. Yes, a very specific list, with a very deliberate purpose

"They never asked him about a single question at all about terrorism or anything relating to a terrorist organisation," he told the BBC World Service's Newsday programme.

"They spent the entire day asking about the reporting I was doing and other Guardian journalists were doing on the NSA stories.

"The principal point, since they kept him for the full nine hours, is to try and send a message of intimation and bullying.

"I don't understand why they don't realise that all it's going to accomplish is the exact opposite effect - I'm going to report more aggressively and with a more emboldened mind," Mr Greenwald told the BBC.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-23750289

[nashville_brook]

35. k and r

[Fire Walk With Me]

39. And they detained Bolivian President Morales for 12 hours after grounding his State jet.

Who says the surveillance state cannot oh-so-easily flip into being a police state? It's practicing right fucking now.

[Catherina]

45. +1 n/t