School Has Become Too Hostile to Boys

[sarisataka]

School Has Become Too Hostile to Boys

And efforts to re-engineer the young-male imagination are doomed to fail

By Christina Hoff Sommers @chsommersAug. 19, 2013190 Comments

As school begins in the coming weeks, parents of boys should ask themselves a question: Is my son really welcome? A flurry of incidents last spring suggests that the answer is no. In May, Christopher Marshall, age 7, was suspended from his Virginia school for picking up a pencil and using it to “shoot” a “bad guy” — his friend, who was also suspended. A few months earlier, Josh Welch, also 7, was sent home from his Maryland school for nibbling off the corners of a strawberry Pop-Tart to shape it into a gun. At about the same time, Colorado’s Alex Evans, age 7, was suspended for throwing an imaginary hand grenade at “bad guys” in order to “save the world.”

In all these cases, school officials found the children to be in violation of the school’s zero-tolerance policies for firearms, which is clearly a ludicrous application of the rule. But common sense isn’t the only thing at stake here. In the name of zero tolerance, our schools are becoming hostile environments for young boys.


Girls occasionally run afoul of these draconian policies; but it is mostly boys who are ensnared. Boys are nearly five times more likely to be expelled from preschool than girls. In grades K-12, boys account for nearly 70% of suspensions, often for minor acts of insubordination and defiance. In the cases of Christopher, Josh and Alex, there was no insubordination or defiance whatsoever. They were guilty of nothing more than being typical 7-year-old boys. But in today’s school environment, that can be a punishable offense.

http://ideas.time.com/2013/08/19/school-has-become-too-hostile-to-boys/?hpt=hp_t3
So are current school policies actually preventing boy from being... well, boys?

[The Magistrate]

1. A.E.I. 'I Hates Feminists To Pieces' Shill, Sir

Comments by her must be taken with several mines full of salt....

[sarisataka]

4. It is clearly

as much, or more, an opinion piece as news but it does beg the question, are zero tolerance policies unevenly enforced?

For myself, I believe zero tolerance=zero thinking, and it just gives administrators a wall to hide behind. They can issue canned discipline that ignores the severity of an offence and if it is excessive sit back to say it is THE POLICY...

I am pleased to be sending my children to a school which has a faculty and staff that is actively involved with the students. They have no problem calling in parents to discuss problems and solutions.

Last year my son was involved in a fight- policy says suspension. What was happening was a rather one sided slug-fest against the smallest child in the class. My son stepped in, he is the largest in the class, pulled the aggressor off and to the ground until the teacher arrived. After a conference with the parents, punishments were determined, no suspensions for anyone and two days later the three of them were playing TMNT together like nothing had ever happened.

I doubt that a "by the book" approach would have had the same end result.

[The Magistrate]

5. A Lot Of School Administrators, And Policies, Are Idiotic, Sir

That hardly endows this shill's calculated political propagandas with any legitimacy.

[sarisataka]

6. I look at it like the broken clock

if the clock says 12:00 and a celestial object is directly overhead, it really is 12:00. However whether the object is the sun or the moon still is a very important point and worthy of scrutiny.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. Christina Hoff Sommers is more like a broken record than a broken clock.

If her argument has merit, surely there's a legit researcher who has made similar observations.
She views the problem as the zero tolerance rules rather than the social conditioning which leads boys to that behavior. That's not right even twice a day.

[cyberswede]

15. "are zero tolerance policies unevenly enforced?"

It's hard to say - what percentage of girl students vs. boy students engage in the kind of playing described in the article in the first place?

If there are girls all over the place shooting toy guns in school, and they're NOT being disciplined the same way, then yes.

(disclaimer: I had to sit in time out in Kindergarten because I pointed an L-shaped block at another kid to "shoot" him while we were playing cops-n-robbers. This was in 1971, and the consequence wasn't as severe, but they enforced the rule when I did it, even though I was a little girl)

[sarisataka]

19. Boys do tend to more aggressive play

Though I recall the girls could hold their own in physical games.

I do not know if there is uneven enforcement but can picture boys being noticed and possibly punished sooner as they face more scrutiny for aggressive actions. Girls might get off with a warning since it would be more out of character.

[Sheldon Cooper]

7. Seriously. Christina Hoff Summers is decidedly biased and frankly, full of excrement.

[Newest Reality]

2. The madness is found

in the symbolic nature of behaviors.

It seems that some people are in a trance when it comes to ignoring the reification of abstraction and being unable to understand the profound difference between what is physically tangible and what is always abstract, no matter how concrete they would like to believe it is.

Though it may be a deliberate, manipulative methodology, the underlying fallacy can be seen as evident.

Who has the problem when a breakfast pastry fashioned into a gun-like image, etc., is confused with an actual object and an a dangerous and deadly action? What are these rampant reifiers teaching children and how will that turn out? Thought control and even deeper manipulation? Or just more confusion about what is real and what is merely conceptual?

Here we go!

[elehhhhna]

67. are you owed beer and travel money?

[Newest Reality]

70. I know who you are

referring to.

If you think my post is similar to that stuff, then maybe you are due the beer, travel money and even, many experiences.

Thanks for the humor, though. If one does not understand the subject and concepts it most likely will seem very abstruse and difficult to fathom.

[elehhhhna]

73. i LOVED your post but could not help myself

xox

[Harmony Blue]

3. Boys and girls at an early age are different

and many educators have told me this explicitly. There are exceptions to this as I was very quiet as a child and was like a lot of the girls in the class room. Maybe that is why I never identified with the over aggressive nature of my male peers. But on the field where we played soccer outside I had no problem being an aggressive competitor. And the most aggressive soccer player out there was actually a girl, Katie...she was soo fast haha I couldn't catch her. But girls have a growth spurt at an earlier age than boys so physically they have an edge.

Once we become older we start to drift away from social conditioning and start to develop and shape into your own image we envision.

[longship]

8. Gees, Louise!

Sexism is bad no matter which the gender.

I would not want males to be maligned for their gender anymore than I would want females; anymore than I would want people whose gender might not be male or female.

But guys have had a very long run. And there's that testosterone thingy. Maybe it's time that women took over the world. Seemingly that guys have screwed things up so thoroughly in the past -- throughout history actually -- maybe it's time for males to set aside their testosterone and give in to the more noble gender, or any gender other than male.

BTW, I'm a guy and I'm ashamed of my fellow guys.

I learned feminism at my mother's knee. That, and having two sisters -- one, my twin -- and no brothers. Cultural influences seem to pale in comparison to genetic ones.

Regardless, I have experienced both my sisters' and my mother fighting gender bias. I am proud that all came through the ordeal on top -- a very good thing, IMHO.

There's no bias against males anywhere. Those who posit such a thing are likely males.

[sarisataka]

10. The author is female

though as pointed out above, worthy of more than average scrutiny for bias views...

There's no bias against males anywhere.

To say such is dismissing the possibility that such may exist. I will not argue that there is more bias against males than females, or nearly even as close because to say so would be ludicrous. To say there is none anywhere however may be a bit much.

Now to turn a blind eye towards policies which may affect one gender more than the other based on historical failings is not just either. As said, sexism is bad.

I am all for blurring gender roles. My daughter loves to fish and do archery. My son prefers to often play with a large collection of baby dolls. I teach her she is the equal of anyone she chooses and to aggressively stand up for herself and what is right. I teach him that there is no shame in gentleness and expressing emotion; also the solution to every problem is not to hit it with a club.

We tend to be much more complete beings when we do not box ourselves into a stereotype.

[Californeeway]

55. Patriarchy puts both man and woman in a box

gives them a clearly-defined and limited role to play and punishes whoever steps outside their assigned role. It's a control method of the elite. It doesn't just stop with women, they are trying to control everyone. Carefully controlled caste systems are central to wide-spread control.

A lot of men want to stay at home and raise their kids. They take shit in similar ways that a woman takes shit for being a "ballbuster" in the office. No one stops to think that it's the place of the individual to choose for themselves what makes them happy. Once people realize that it is about individuals having the freedom to choose without outside control, they realize that everyone, not just women have powerful reasons for wanting rid of Patriarchy.

[sarisataka]

56. I agree

a very long time friend, and was my best man, is a stay at home dad of five. He gets many sideways looks where he is out with the horde. His wife has a very good job and he enjoys taking care of the kids, but many find that hard to grasp.

[seabeyond]

57. roles have never left an impression with me. my aunt was the one that needed to work, and uncle

has always been the nurturer. my middle brother should have been a stay at home. and my other brother raised his daughter.

we had a significant amount of texas fathers that were picking up the kids. i do not know if just had more flexible schedule, were stay at home or working odd hours. but stay at home dads are becoming more a norm and not raising eyebrows. i am all for it.

[chervilant]

64. So good

to see a post from you, sea!

[seabeyond]

71. thank you chervilant

it has been a very peaceful summer, lol.

[lumberjack_jeff]

14. The guys in question have NOT had a very long run at all.

Even a 5 year old on his kindergarten orientation can quickly see that the tall people who succeed in the education business are unlike him.

Those who explained to you why it's good to defer to those of "any gender other than male" were women.

"Ashamed of my fellow guys"? I hear you.

[cyberswede]

18. Why aren't there more male elementary school teachers?

I really don't know - has there been anything published about possible reasons? I'm legitimately curious.

My daughter had a male teacher for 2nd and now 5th grade, and my son had a male teacher only in 3rd grade (he has several now, in junior high), so the stats don't particularly surprise me.

I do wonder if 5 year olds really conceive of a teacher as "someone who succeeds in the education business," though.

[lumberjack_jeff]

20. Male teachers elect to be high school teachers

Primarily because of gender stereotype and fear of false allegations.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705310434/Teachers-fear-allegations-of-sex-with-students.html?pg=all

And yes, girls think that they are smarter by age 4, and boys come around to this way of thinking by seven or eight.

[cyberswede]

23. Hmm - fasle allegations are MORE likely in elem than middle or high school?

I'm skeptical. I think the article to which you linked was talking about high school (and one middle school) teachers.

And while I don't doubt that young girls could think they're smarter than boys, could it be based on observation of boys' behavior (the article mentions that girls are seen as more conscientious, for example), or that girls' are complimented on their smarts to boost their self-esteem, since males have traditionally held the power positions in society?

Or maybe we can blame the Grateful Dead!

[lumberjack_jeff]

27. You skipped right over the relevant bit.

If you ask seven or eight year old boys who is smarter and harder working, they say girls. They aren't doing it to boost girls self esteem - it isn't in need of repair.

In fact they would probably be surprised to find that they (boys) do better on tests despite the fact that the teachers give them worse grades.

Teachers give grades based on factors other than apprehension of the subject matter.

[cyberswede]

30. I see what you mean

but maybe the boys actually observe the girls working harder, and that's why they think they're harder working (and possibly smarter).

And grades should be based on things besides test scores (which may or may not actually reflect apprehension of the subject matter, by the way). Things like behavior, class participation, turning work in on time, etc.

You seem to be saying that teachers somehow make boys think they're not as smart as girls - I just find that hard to swallow.

[lumberjack_jeff]

34. For centuries schoolgirls have watched boys outperform them in math.

Oddly, we haven't accepted this as a satisfactory reason to tell girls (or encourage them to tell themselves) that girls just suck at math.

Yes. Teachers tell boys that they're not as smart as girls with every report card. If this deficit had a relationship with the actual learning they obtain from the class, it might have some merit.

[cyberswede]

35. Are you saying

that if a boy receives a lower grade, it's because the teacher is encouraging him to tell himself he's not smart?

Test scores really only measure how well a student takes tests, not actual learning. Some kids are great test takers, but not terrific students. Some kids are great students, but lousy test takers. That's why you can't get an accurate measure of ability using only test scores (or only grades) - assessment has to be based on several factors, right? Isn't it possible that's the reason for the discrepancy above?

I'm not an educator, and I don't really know anything about pedagogy or educational measurement, but it seems simplistic to infer that if scores are high and grades are low, it must be the teacher's fault.

[lumberjack_jeff]

47. Conversely, if the students you are giving poor grades to are the ones doing most of the learning...

... it stands to reason that awarding grades on the basis of "boosting self esteem" does the recipients a disservice.

Testing may have its faults, but it is the only way to measure what the student has learned.

"are you saying..." in my experience is usually followed by a strawman argument. I'm saying what I said. Teachers reward the behavior that they prefer, and those behaviors are demonstrably disconnected from a student's understanding and retention of the subject in question.

"We don't want boys students disrupting the girls class because it detracts from their education."

Oddly, the disruptors are apparently getting two lessons: a) a greater benefit of the subject being taught and b) that school isn't meant for them.

Boys on average test 40 points higher on the SAT than girls, (and the gap widened last year). Yet they can't go to college because their grades are comparatively poor and there are fewer scholarship opportunities.

[cyberswede]

60. I disagree

First, your notion that those receiving poor grades are the ones doing most of the learning isn't supportable. And I never said grades should be awarded to boost self esteem.

Second, testing is NOT the only way to measure what a student has learned. There are also performance-based methods for educational assessment (portfolios, projects, demonstrations, case studies, etc).

Of course teachers reward the behavior they prefer (turning in work on time, behaving, participating in class, showing critical thinking, etc), but I don't see how that is "demonstrably disconnected from a student's understanding and retention" of the material just because you say test scores are more indicative of learning than grades are.

As for this:

"We don't want boys students disrupting the girls class because it detracts from their education."

I'm not sure who you're quoting, but I guarantee that teachers don't want girls disrupting the class any more than they want boys to do so. Nor do they want disruption to detract from boys' education.

Finally, there's a reason why ACT/SAT scores alone aren't the sole determiner of who gets scholarships. Lower grades may suggest that the students didn't apply themselves, or that they couldn't complete their work on time, or that they weren't self-motivated - all of which are necessary skills in college.

[liberalhistorian]

26. My parents were both teachers

beginning in the early 60's through the early part of the 2000's, and this was always a major fear of my stepdad. From the beginning, he never talked with a student alone, he never touched students, he always kept his door open, he never gave rides home to lone students, when he needed to have a serious discussion with one he'd do it in the office within sight of the principal's office and secretary, etc., etc. And many of his fellow teachers, both male and female but especially male, did the same thing. He hated to be that way, especially the no touching at all, because he really cared about his students, but he simply did not want and could not afford any false accusations.

It's an open secret among teachers and their families that these kinds of false allegations are a lot more common than you'd think and it's very hard and costly to defend yourself once accused, even if innocent. Even if you're cleared, you're forever tainted in a lot of circles. It used to be that students were almost never believed in genuine cases of abuse and molestation; now we've gone 180 degrees the other way and almost always believe the student no matter what, which is just as wrong. Yes, there are definitely abusive and predatory teachers, but all of them shouldn't have to suffer for the bad apples.

[seabeyond]

42. not to mention the fact that there is a lot of inappropriate going on also.

no one can pretend otherwise. is it really really unfortunate? you betcha. gosh, to have a world where we do not have to worry about predators around our kids. wouldnt it be nice?

so, your step father and many of the others do what they need to do to protect themselves adn they will have backing if there is an issue, cause the repeatedly and consistently follow their own rules.

[Fawke Em]

33. Money.

Middle and high school teachers are paid more.

And, you only need a teaching certificate (if you have a previous bachelor's degree) to teach elementary school in some states (they take your bachelor's degree, no matter what it's in, and you do an extra 18 months to earn your teaching certificate). However, this doesn't earn you as much money.

[mcar]

38. No they are not

Middle and high school teachers are not paid more in public schools. Teachers with masters degrees generally get a slightly higher salary than do teachers with bachelor's degrees.

Some middle and high teachers get stipends that add to their income because they coach sports or do after school tutoring but the salaries are the same.

[MichiganVote]

39. You are seriously misinformed as is anyone who listens to you.

[seabeyond]

40. low pay, not manly enough job. it is being suggested that men be paid MORE

because there is not enough male elementary teachers. seriously being suggested. like we do not already have the problem. even in teaching men are paid more. but to get them in elementary we are suppose to pay them more, consciously, than a woman. i hate the excuse that they are fearful of being called sexual abusers. i have yet to see that as a problem or a reason.

http://www.edutopia.org/male-teacher-shortage

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/opinion/letters/story/2012-08-19/male-teachers-elementary-school/57145422/1

[sarisataka]

48. Male teachers should be paid more...

and the female ones as well. I served on the school board for two years and it is disgraceful to see what the teachers make. It should be a gender neutral pay scale based on documented qualifications, tenure and about 50% higher than it is now.

[seabeyond]

51. you did not hear me argue teachers get paid too much. agreed, teachers should be paid more.

that was not what i was talking about as you well know.

so, i agree with your post.

and you agree with mine. the people advocating, men advocating paying male teachers more to get them into the profession, LEAVING womens pay where it is, ... is absurd.

[sarisataka]

52. We are in agreement

I just couldn't resist poking a bit with the title

Raise the pay to where it deserves to be and more good men, and women, will go into education. Schools will then be able to select outstanding candidates regardless of gender

[seabeyond]

54. i had actually thought about editing and

adding

more than women. but... i was too lazy.

gotcha. to you too. lol.

[liberal_at_heart]

22. I tend to think the heart of the problem is a lack of funding on the school's side and poverty

on the student's side rather than blatant sexism problem. But there is no doubt there is a problem and boys do tend to get punished more. Because our schools don't have the resources they need kids are expected to sit down, shut up, memorize whatever is being thrown at them, and pass the standardized test. Classrooms are too big, curriculums are too big, there's not enough time to teach the curriculum, there's no time for physical activity, teachers are stressed, kids are stressed at school and at home. Some kids have major problems at home due to poverty. When stressed and pushed to the limit boys don't just sit down and shut up. They act out. But instead of fixing our schools we just punish the students who are acting out.

[geek tragedy]

9. Christina Hoff Summers is to women what Dinesh D'Souza is to people of color, nt

[Blue_Tires]

25. +1

[Capt. Obvious]

11. Next they'll take away the urinals

[liberal_at_heart]

12. School is hostile to all kids now. No Child Left Behind, Race to the Top, and the defunding

of our schools is what has destroyed our schools.

[sarisataka]

16. You have a point

Many schools are more concerned with the catchy program than whether or not the kids learn more than how to pass the test that grades the school

[lumberjack_jeff]

17. That hostility is selective.

Suspensions by sex and race.


Who is school designed for? People who look like the teachers.

[cigsandcoffee]

36. Asians? n/t

[1-Old-Man]

21. Back when I was a kid I drew a picture of a man with a shotgun when I was at school

I guess it was probably a monday and this would have been a very early grade of school, 1st or 2nd I'd guess. We were drawing pictures and the preceding weekend my family went to a "Turkey Shoot" at a gun club. You shoot at targets at Turkey Shoots and the Turkey's are the prizes. My Grandfather (who along with my Grandmother raised my sister and I) won a turkey. It was a really big weekend for us.

My teacher looked at the picture and asked me what was going on in it. I quickly explained and she stopped me and had me do a "show and tell" so the rest of the class could share the interesting experience.

Things certainly have changed.

[davidn3600]

24. The war on boys

— and boys across America are losing ground. It's a situation so dire that three dozen national experts have formed a bipartisan commission to bolster their proposal that President Obama establish a White House Council on Boys and Men. There's already one for females, focused on education, health and career.

The proposal and the research backing it say boys are at a crisis point in education, in physical and emotional health, in employment and in the lack of dads participating in their lives. Boys are losing ground in schools geared to how girls learn and too many are growing up without male mentors in either homes or classrooms. Name a daunting number — higher suicide rates, how many drop out of high school or graduate from college or even take medication for attention deficit — and girls fare better than boys.

It is not deliberate, but society seems to have declared a war on boys.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765552031/The-war-on-boys-young-men-are-facing-a-new-crisis.html?pg=all

Schools are now geared to helping girls learn...and boys are being ignored. And it's NOT that girls are catching up (which feminists claim), when you look at the statistics across the board...boys are SLIDING DOWN. Boys are getting lower grades. Boys are getting lower academic achievements. Boys are getting into trouble more. Boys are committed suicide in higher rates. And boys are going to college less. The slide downward is even more profound with African-American boys....especially in reading rates.

The trend is impossible to ignore.


[img][/img]

[DirkGently]

28. Sounds like "zero-tolerance," not gender discrimination

is the problem.

[lumberjack_jeff]

29. I think we should have zero tolerance for hello kitty.

It has well-known ties to the gun industry.


Who could possibly object? It's not gender discrimination!

[CrispyQ]

31. That was my thought, too.

Zero tolerance policies for children? How are they ever going to learn if they aren't allowed to make mistakes?

Some of these administrators are clearly on some kind of power trip & some don't seem to have a smidgen of common sense. Nibbling a pop-tart into the shape of a gun got a boy suspended? By five, how many hours have little boys watched male heroes shoot/blowup/whatever the bad guy on TV & in the movies? They emulate this at school & get suspended for it? Maybe we should have a national discussion on our violent culture, instead of implementing zero tolerance policies on children.


This country has lost it's mind.

[DirkGently]

32. We keep pretending that if we overreact to small things,

somehow that ensures large things won't happen. The thinking seems to be that if you expel a kid for a Pop-tart "weapon" or a butter knife or what have you, somehow the switchblade or the gun won't get through.

Same with drugs. They keep bringing the hammer down on Midol and aspirin, like that's going to stop crack and meth.

Except of course that reality doesn't work that way. The Pop-tart gun kid isn't the same kid that's bringing the real gun, and even if he was, he's not going to have been deterred by getting slammed over the Pop-tart.

We're idiots.

[seabeyond]

37. hmmm, all the schools protecting our boys when they rape, revictimizing our girls,

creating an environment that the answer is a suicide. and she shrugs....

i raised two boys. one has completed high school and did it exceptionally well. one is a sophmore. in all their years they NEVER had ONE issue with the school. as a matter of fact, they have only encountered praise. and the oldest ego proves it out. now, it is a healthy ego that will allow success, but, if there was any kind of discrimination, i would have addressed.

[MichiganVote]

41. So what do you want Mr. or Mrs. Public?

Suspension? Not really. But and its a big BUT, in case you haven't noticed, in the homes of America, kids are getting an entirely different message of anything goes in the matter of guns, guns are cool, people with guns are cool, guns are fun, people who play with guns are cool, games with guns are the coolest, guns are safe around children, guns solve conflicts, etc. etc.

Its not as if boys or girls are watching the Baby Boomer movies about the Wild Wild West you know. They aren't playing Lone Ranger. And in terms of toy marketing, guns are way down on the list in comparison to other playtime activities...so where are the kids getting the messages from? You?

Guns have NO place in schools. Imaginary guns have NO place in schools.

So unless or until you all come up with a better message to the kids or to the schools, zero tolerance is what will happen. And let's face it, while these news stories are horrific for some to read or for the kids and their families, the vast majority of US kids are either not mimicking gun play at school or are getting the proverbial 'talking to' by school officials and/or their parents.

[sarisataka]

50. Discipline is fine

just not a one size fits all that does not consider the age or maturity of the offender nor the severity of the offense.

I do believe you are correct that the majority do not get directly caught in the zero tolerance net, but all students see it happening. They are confused why some students get punished for just playing and they learn (like Ralphie did) it is best to not get caught.

[MichiganVote]

59. Or they learn that when the teacher in kindergarten said, no guns

She meant it. It's not like the kids are going to prison.

[Starry Messenger]

43. She's a winger.

That being said, do you think the young man who leered at me today during Ceramics class and asked me once yesterday and twice today if I'd seen the pottery scene in "Ghost", which is a sex scene, should just be allowed to do that because otherwise I'm an oppressive female bword teacher?

[liberal_at_heart]

44. with the proper support system put in place that could be a teachable moment. I heard a great story

on NPR once about a boy who often acted out in class. The teacher took the time to get to know the boy and came to find out he didn't have any running water at his house, was coming to class dirty and was just an all around angry person because of his situation. The teacher had all the students in the class talk out the situation. The boy told the class what was going on and the students were a little more understanding and compassionate and they also came up with a way of letting him know when his temper was getting out of hand and he learned to recognize when he was acting out of frustration and learned to self regulate his emotions. I'm sure you're saying sure like I can this with this kid. Maybe not with the current system in place but it is possible to set up a support system so that children don't feel so isolated, angry, and hopeless.

[Starry Messenger]

46. He's 17 and looked pretty cheerful to me.

He's a senior and in another year his behavior will be illegal when he turns 18.

I haven't done anything yet, because I do take my time before I decide it needs to go above my pay grade, but why should my workplace being a school mean I need to just take sexual harassment because "boys need to be boys"?

[seabeyond]

45. early 2000's i was seeing my sons peers totally embrace stupid. i blame bushco years

where my boys had to fight the mentality that there was something wrong with them because they were not disrespectful to parents and teachers. because they wanted to do well in school. because they were not gonna promote themselves as just stupid boys. i see a lot of issue with our children of both gender, but i really do not promote that teachers are the blame. pisses me off. i have watched these teachers try every creative way to get all students interested. and the biggest issue i see is needing a parents involvement and participation.

and no... the kid should not have gotten away with it yesterday or today. you should have called his mom and told her that was totally inappropriate, wouldnt be allowed and you expect her to have a conversation with little johnny, who feels oh so privileged. not like he is not watching the stupid ass teen boy movies where they are promoting this behavior. or milf, a bunch of pimply assed, punk ass kids talking about fucking grown women, minding their own business.

[sarisataka]

49. You answered your own question

the "young man", he is no longer a boy and should already know how to behave in a civilized fashion.

It is sad that you have to put up with such behavior and shouldn't have to wait to go to administration.

I am not in your shoes but in my imagination I would respond to his question with "Yes, is there something about it I need to explain to you?"

Thank you for your service to our children and community

[Starry Messenger]

62. Well the article says "In grades K-12"

so she's not exempting the teachers like me who teach my demographic.

The student is still a minor and will get consideration as such, which is fine. And I'm not saying he's a rotten human being or anything, but articles like this put the wind up in me.

If you said something like that, you could get into trouble, actually, depending on how much of a hardass your administration is.

I enjoy my job, but like it less when I read things about female teachers destroying the hopes and dreams of male youth.

I think some parents take a very "boys will be boys" approach and don't support teachers. Someone must have let the minor male child watch the movie.

[sarisataka]

65. I feel your pain

my wife spent a couple years as a behavioral specialist in K-6. It is hard to modify behavior with lukewarm, at best, support from the district and often none from the parent's side.

My comment was wishful thinking- I know the real world doesn't work that way and plenty of female teachers are accused, sometimes validly, of improper conduct. As was mentioned in another post, once accused you are never truly exonerated, it will follow you.

[muntrv]

53. The American Enterprise Institute shill wrote this column. I take it with

a grain of salt.

[MissMarple]

58. Kids will always make guns, knives and swords. Hippy parents found this out in the 60's.

Usually it is more boys than girls, but it is not going to stop. It is what little humans do. Punishing is silly, redirecting and shaping behavior is more effective.

[TransitJohn]

61. The criminilization of play and imagination continues apace.

[LittleBlue]

63. It's the product of supernanny types running schools

Meanwhile bullying seems to get worse and worse. Kids committing suicide after getting beaten and tossed in a ditch. Suddenly the supernanny types are powerless.

Useless bureaucrats who care more about their own paychecks than every kid at the schools.

[sarisataka]

66. It is funny

-funny as in inexplicable- that minor transgressions can be dealt with immediate draconian punishment but felony level conduct is too complex for a solution.

I could be cynical and say the majority of bullying and sex offences seem to come from student athletes but that would be oversimplifying the issue. It is one (major?) factor but not the only one.

[Cerridwen]

68. And you fell for it; hook, line and sinker.

hoff sommers and aei aren't a stopped clock, they don't give two shits about you; aei and all their shills put a friendly face on hatred.

And you fell for it.

Here's the source of the editorial you just posted: http://aei.org/article/society-and-culture/school-has-become-to-hostile-to-boys/

It's a hit piece on those "touchy feely libruls" and their damned "public schools" that put knowledge and learning and peace before ignorance, hatred, borg-like conformity.

And you fell for it.

Here's the report from two of the teachers evaluating themselves and how teachers interact with their students; ya, know, so they could maybe learn to do better like those "touchy feely libruls" is (sic) prone to do: http://ecrp.uiuc.edu/v13n1/logue.html

Here's the research summary (the rest is behind a pay wall that I won't pay because I'm not so gullible to believe anything aei writes): http://www.ocdelresearch.org/Lists/Research%20Summaries/DispForm.aspx?ID=40

Here's what prompted the survey in the first place: http://ecrp.uiuc.edu/v13n1/logue.html

This entire piece is a hit on "librul edumacation" and their, what were they called? Oh yes, nanny-state practices and policies.

And you fell for it.

aei is where storm front goes to get their talking points about "racism against whites" and how those "rich white men" are just making the economy wonderful for the rest of the "poor unwashed masses." storm front figures a Ph.D means objectivity and honest knowledge.

And you fell for it.

Look up what a con-artist is. It is someone who gains your confidence, and you fall for it, then they take everything you have because "they were so nice and so informed and so educated and they wouldn't lie to me would they?"

aei is not a "stopped clock." they are living and breathing animals who would lie to you to take your house, your car, your wife/husband, children, pets, the clothes on your back if it would make them a penny.

And you fell for it.

[noiretextatique]

74. +!0000000000000000000 nt

[Tien1985]

69. So lets go back to

The good old days, when boys did well in school because they were paddled when they didn't do what they were told and hazing was accepted as "boys being boys".

:eyeroll:

Boys aren't doing so hot because parents aren't teaching boys that no means no. No guns, means no guns. Sit down, means sit down. Stop means stop.

Society is perpetuating the idea that boys are loud, stupid and hyper. That they just cant rein in all their energy. They come to school acting that way because they told what clever little men they are for acting the fool. When the teacher talks to mom and dad, "oh, he's all boy!" No, he's a unmannered brat. Teach your child to behave themselves, it's not that hard.

[seabeyond]

72. point. that is why Ops like this make me so mad. just more excuses for boys to do whatever and

parents do not have to parent because after all, the boys are just being boys.

i have two boys. and neither felt the need to misbehave and be disruptive any more than normal. be it girls or boys.

forever the boys have been successful in life and made it thru graduation over girls. cause girls were not allowed to go to college. now... with the same system the boys are not beating the girls in degrees. cause the girls are encouraged to go to college. so it must be the school letting the boys down, all of a sudden. not the fact that today girls can go to college.

back in the old days, boys sat in a desk and was expected to learn. i do not get what this magical difference is.