I'm beginning to see the attacks on Greenwald, Miranda, Assange et al as homophobic slurs

[grasswire]

How many times on DU has Greenwald excitedly been characterized as a drama queen, hysterical, out of control, attention grabbing? (translation gay)

How many times has Assange been disparaged for his sexual orientation? Now he's called Mr. Blond here on DU.

How many times has Miranda been referred to as Greenwald's boyfriend, when in fact he is his spouse?

Think about it as you read the descriptive phrases and the slurs about these men. This is ugly, ugly stuff originating in prejudice and bigotry.

[JoePhilly]

1. Makes about as much sense as suggesting that all of the

criticism aimed at President Obama is racism.

[quinnox]

5. well, good to see you admit that

Yup, 90% of the meme of "criticizing Obama = racism" is bullshit.

[JoePhilly]

12. Some of the criticism certainly is ... but I would not attempt

to put a % against it.

On DU, the % of folks criticism the President based on his race, would be very small. Out in the real world, its significantly higher.

Same here. I doubt very many here on DU disagree with or are critical of Greenwald based on his sexual orientation.

[quinnox]

19. I put a 10% factor just because it is possible

there could be a tiny amount of racists on here who do criticize Obama mainly because of race. I also think the same is true for Greenwald though (but in terms of bigotry towards his sexual preference). I don't rule it out completely.

[JoePhilly]

25. I would not argue with those numbers.

And I can imagine some of them starting from the race or homophobia angle, and then working towards starting a fight that they can sit back and watch.

[leftstreet]

8. OMG what a startling admission n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. Right?

[JoePhilly]

18. What did I admit that was startling?

[Cali_Democrat]

40. Nothing

They're trying to pretend as if you said in the past that all criticism of Obama is racism.

Of course you never said any such thing, but they want to make it seem that way.

I also don't think the majority of the criticism against Obama here is racist, but like you said, outside of DU much of it is.

[JoePhilly]

48. Yea, pretty much how I saw it.

Pretty standard these days.

[sabrina 1]

94. I hope you called out those who did that and all those who rec'd that false claim. I agree

with you, sweeping generalizations should never be used to try to 'win' an argument. They are grossly unfair. I didn't see much objection to them though from those who were defending the NSA.

[JoePhilly]

99. First, I don't know that I've seen very many ... "All of the

critics of President Obama are racists", OPs. Show me one and I'll call it out.

Having said that, when I see some one referring to that particular racism point, I do tend to mention that the vast majority of DU folks would not be coming from that perspective.

Honestly, I see more critics of Obama claiming that they have been called racists (or claiming that they are going to be called racists for what they just posted about the President) than I have seen people actually calling them racists.

[malaise]

2. You left out Manning

[RKP5637]

85. +1, n/t

[mike_c]

3. character assassination always looks for some smear to hit on....

If it wasn't teh gay, it would be something else. I really don't think it's deliberate homophobia so much as just plain old ugly character assassination, and if gayness resonates with some readers, then that's all it takes. Some of the same folks smeared Snowden for having a "pole dancing girlfriend." It's pretty transparent, especially when the same posters track a fast moving character assassination target day after day.

[geek tragedy]

4. "How many times has Assange been disparaged for his sexual orientation?"

None, since he's a heterosexual (his alleged rape victims are women).

[Pretzel_Warrior]

6. Really?

Mr. Blond as a nickname does not strike me as homophobic.

[SidDithers]

7. Assange is gay?...

Does he know that?

Sid

[grasswire]

11. my apology

I meant Manning.

And you do know that there are other manifestations to sexual orientation than straight and gay?

[SidDithers]

21. Sure. But I don't think "rapist" falls in the spectrum...nt

Sid

[Octafish]

43. ''Rapist,'' as spun by those using a story from a CIA contact.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022890845

[SidDithers]

53. Nawww. "Rapist" as spun by the British court that upheld the European Arrest Warrant...

Sid

[Octafish]

81. What European court was that?

The British supreme court? The same body that let Tony Blair get away with lying the UK into an illegal war? That supreme court?

[SidDithers]

98. I said British court, not European court

Here's the Finding of Facts and Reasons, from the City of Westminster Magistrates' Court.
http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/jud-aut-sweden-v-assange-judgment.pdf

Is this the first time you're seeing this?

Sid

[reusrename]

105. They're a joke, and a bad one at that.

I suppose you also agree that it's unconstitutional to count legally cast votes in a presidential election because that's what the Rhenquist court ruled in Bush v Gore.

Of course you don't think that, at least I hope you don't.

But seriously, the judicial decision you want to hang your hat on is fundamentally flawed, much more so than even the case in Bush v Gore. In their decision, those magistrates never even mention the principle of non-refoulement, which is the entire reason for this extradition hearing in the first place.

The court just set up their own strawman and then handily knocked it over without ever even addressing the whole substance of the extradition. Assange never claimed that he was afraid to face his accusers in Sweden. He only wanted assurances that he would not be sent to the US once he was in Swedish custody.

[Octafish]

115. Sorry I did not know Britain was not in Europe, SidDithers.

Yes. That is the first time I saw that PDF. Doesn't really do much, other than repeat the CIA-affiliated rape charge against Assange, does it?

Here's part of why I side with Assange:

John Pilger: Why the Assange Case Is Important

By Dagens Nyheter, Truthout | Interview
Wednesday, 30 May 2012 13:26

EXCERPT...

DN: Julian Assange has been fighting extradition to Sweden at a number of British courts. Why do you think it is important he wins?

JP: Because the attempt to extradite Assange is unjust and political. I have read almost every scrap of evidence in this case and it's clear, in terms of natural justice, that no crime was committed. The case would not have got this far had it not been for the intervention of Claes Borgstrom, a politician who saw an opportunity when the Stockholm prosecutor threw out almost all the police allegations. Borgstrom was then in the middle of an election campaign. When asked why the case was proceeding when both women had said that the sex had been consensual with Assange, he replied, "Ah, but they're not lawyers." If the Supreme Court in London rejects Assange's appeal, the one hope is the independence of the Swedish courts. However, as the London Independent has revealed, Sweden and the US have already begun talks on Assange's "temporary surrender" to the US - where he faces concocted charges and the prospect of unlimited solitary confinement. And for what? For telling epic truths. Every Swede who cares about justice and the reputation of his or her society should care deeply about this.

DN: You have said that Julian Assange's human rights have been breached. In what way?

JP: One of the most fundamental human rights - that of the presumption of innocence - has been breached over and over again in Assange's case. Convicted of no crime, he has been the object of character assassination -perfidious and inhuman - and highly political smear, of which the evidence is voluminous. This is what Britain's most distinguished and experienced human rights lawyer, Gareth Peirce, has written: "Given the extent of the public discussion, frequently on the basis of entirely false assumptions ... it is very hard to preserve for [Assange] any presumption of innocence. He has now hanging over him not one but two Damocles swords of potential extradition to two different jurisdictions in turn for two different alleged crimes, neither of which are crimes in his own country. [And] his personal safety has become at risk in circumstances that are highly politically charged."

SNIP...

DN: IF the Supreme Court decides that Julian Assange can be extradited to Sweden, what consequences/risks do you see for him?

JP: First, I would draw on my regard for ordinary Swedes' sense of fairness and justice. Alas, overshadowing that is a Swedish elite that has forged sinister and obsequious links with Washington. These powerful people have every reason to see Julian Assange as a threat. For one thing, their vaunted reputation for neutrality has been repeatedly exposed as a sham in US cables leaked by WikiLeaks. One cable revealed that "the extent of (Sweden's military and intelligence) co-operation (with NATO) is not widely known" and unless kept secret "would open up the government to domestic criticism." Another was entitled "WikiLeaks puts neutrality in the dustbin of history." Don't the Swedish public have a right to know what the powerful say in private in their name?

CONTINUED...

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/9476-john-pilger-why-the-assange-case-is-important

The journalist John Pilger, I'm sure you know, was one of the people who put up bond for Assange. Probably lost it, too, right?

For those interested in hearing Assange and Pilger for themselves:

http://vimeo.com/18269080#

[Comrade Grumpy]

63. Uh, that's "alleged rapist."

[SidDithers]

107. Yes, he's only an "alleged rapist" until he goes to Sweden...

But, not being a court of law, I'm not bound by such distinctions.

I think he's a rapist. Maybe I'll be proven wrong.

Sid

[avaistheone1]

137. I am confident you will be.

The charges are an orchestrated sham.

[boston bean]

9. Also, what I started noticing is people calling Greenwald a "shyster"

Which is many times used to describe a unscrupulous jewish lawyer. I view it as anti semetic. Many don't, but I think the history of the meaning of the word, especially when used to describe a jewish lawyer, proves me right.

[grasswire]

10. yeah, there's plenty of prejudice in the propaganda..

...that's being flung here daily.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

15. Not saying it didn't happen, but your post

Is the first I've seen that term used about Greenwald. And I have read a lot of posts here attacking Greenwald.

[boston bean]

22. I've seen it used quite often, and here is a link where I called it out:

http://sync.democraticunderground.com/10023358168#post118

and here check out this search

http://www.google.com/search?q=greenwald+%2B+shyster&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com

[geek tragedy]

26. 'Shyster' is completely anti-semitic.

It's an unfortunate reality that even in 'progressive' circles racist, homophobic, anti-semitic, and misogynist language to describe disfavored persons is too common.

"Well, I really hate Sarah Palin and her horrid rightwing politics, so I get a pass on degrading her as a woman."

[KittyWampus]

58. Shyster- a person who is professionally unscrupulous especially in the practice of law or politics

sounds exactly like Greenwald.

[Maedhros]

108. You and your small cadre of unprincipled smear artists

are the only people leveling charges of "unscrupulous" at Greenwald.

Many, many other people whom I respect much more than you (e.g. Senator Wyden, Daniel Ellsberg, Jimmy Carter) have applauded his efforts.

I'm sorry, but just because you're taking a page out of Goebbels book and repeating the lie, it doesn't make it true.

[DevonRex]

114. Matt Hale: Neo-Nazi, Greenwald client, convicted for soliticing murder of FBI agent.

Glenn represented Hale and The World Church of the Creator many times, in ordinary civil masters as well as criminal matters.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2005-03-09-hale_x.htm?csp=34

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/09/national/09hale.html?pagewanted=print&position=

And from the SPLC

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/profiles/matt-haleIn His Own Words
"It is time to fan the flames of anti-Semitism far and wide. It is time to expose the Jews as being the evil incarnate of the world."
— "Fanning the Flames of Anti-Semitism," The Struggle, 2002

"Once we get the White Race thinking straight, the White Race will cease to subsidize the mud races, and they shall wither on the vine."
— Statement to the media, 1999

"The mud races may very well offer some resistance and that resistance will have to be destroyed."
— Statement to the media, 1999

"Just as Adolph Hitler knew that before he could win Germany, he must win his home turf, Munich and then Bavaria as a whole, before we can win the world, I fervently believe that we must win our capital, Illinois."
— Hale's call for his followers to relocate to the East Peoria, Ill., area, where the "World Headquarters" of his group was located in his father's house

[boston bean]

116. ok, and this makes it ok to use anti semitic slurs againt him, how?

[DevonRex]

121. Who said that? What I've seen is people poo-poohing his voluntary

representation of violent anti-semites when others bring that subject up. I haven't seen ANY antisemitism towards him. Anti-semites would, in fact, love him - up to a point.

I have met one person in my life who was Jewish yet sold Nazi weapons and Neo-Nazi material. He was vile but not because he was born into a Jewish family. His parents and sister are wonderful people.

[boston bean]

123. Devon, I really like and respect you. But we are going to have a difference of opinion

here.

To me shyster is anti-semitic. You can find the reasons for it being so all over the net.

I am not calling you or anyone else who may feel differently an anti-semite. I am saying it is an anti-semitic slur, whether one believes so or not.

My previous response may have been seen as a challenge to you, but I do wonder why you would bring that up in this context.

To me, it doesn't change my feelings about the words, I don't care if Greenwald defended Hitler in Nuremberg, it's still not right. I can't think of another reason you brought it up here in this context. Maybe I am missing something.

[DevonRex]

131. Online Etimology and Wikipedia disagree about the origin of the word.

**I wasn't aware of this, either. So, I was in the middle of a reply agreeing with you when I looked it up to provide proof of antisemitic origins. I had been told it had something to do with Merchant of Venice. Nope, not unless Merchant was written much later than we know.

Anyway, my reason for replying in the first place wasn't to defend the use of that word, which I still thought was bad. Just that many of us are actually kind of sick that he would have had that organization as a client because we ARE sensitive to antisemitism and cannot abide violent Neo-Nazi groups.

And here I find out that word doesn't mean what I thought. I still don't like it since it seems many are under the misconception both of us were. Man, this gets complicated, doesn't it?

And I like you, too. You're why I miss meta. It was a bonding experience and a place for finding common ground. I miss you, too.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=shyster&searchmode=term
Shyster
"unscrupulous lawyer," 1843, U.S. slang, probably altered from German Scheisser "incompetent worthless person," from Scheisse "shit," from Old High German skizzan "to defecate" (see shit)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shyster
Etymology
The etymology of the word is not generally agreed upon. The Merriam-Webster Dictionary says it is based on the German Scheißer (literally "defecator" but also used to refer to deceivers),[1] but the Oxford English Dictionary describes it as "of obscure origin", possibly deriving from a historical sense of "shy" meaning disreputable.[2] Various false etymologies have suggested an anti-Semitic origin, but there is no proof for that.[3] One source claims that the term originated in Philadelphia in 1843 from a disreputable attorney named "Schuster."[4]

The Soviet nuclear missile R-5 Pobeda was given the NATO reporting name "Shyster".[5]

[boston bean]

134. ........

[frazzled]

13. And when you hear about "dark secrets" in Obama's NSA ...

you see racist slurs? Ugly, ugly stuff originating in prejudice and bigotry?

Get a grip. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. People can disagree with someone who happens to be gay and not be homophobic.

PS: Assange is not gay.

[one_voice]

64. +1

[The Link]

14. Of course it is.

[pnwmom]

27. Garbage. Where is a single post that would support your claim? nt

[The Link]

30. Notice anyone calling him GeeGee any more?

[Whisp]

16. weak sauce bullshit!

I don't read every post here by any means, but I have not seen any such kind of reference and if there was one that post would be burnt toast in a matter of minutes.

DESPERATIONS!

And James Blond is an awesome name for Assange! Whoever came up with that one deserves a prize.

[msanthrope]

24. I have a thread for you---this might be what the OP means--

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023488346

[Whisp]

46. o jeeze...

no words.

[George II]

103. So where is the homophobic-ness of that post?

[msanthrope]

20. I called Assange "James Blond." Is that homophobic? nt

[one_voice]

68. I thought it was a play on ...

James Bond. What the hell do I know..

I'm apparently homophobic. Because I think Greenwald is an attention grabbing asshole.


bolded part: I had no idea that attention grabbing meant gay (according to the OP)=gay slur. When did that happen?

[msanthrope]

74. Me, too--here, I am castigated for noting that OUT magazine used the word 'boyfriend'

for referring to Mr. Greenwald's now-partner in 2011.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3488346

[one_voice]

97. I had no idea...

it was homophobic to refer to someone's spouse as boyfriend/girlfriend if they'd gotten married. When did that happen? What if you didn't know?


Though, one of those people spits out the word 'straight' as if it's acid on their tongue.

[Californeeway]

135. disingenuous people can twist the meaning of things around

till just about any statement you could make at all becomes insensitive or a statement of intolerance. It's so stupid because it undermines the effort to push back against real intolerance and bullying.

People don't like Greenwald because they are getting the feeling that he is yanking their chain and being less than truthful on an important issue.. I couldn't give a shit who he goes home to at night.

[pnwmom]

23. It certainly is not on DU.

It could be among the Freepers.

[grasswire]

29. weak defense, there nt

[pnwmom]

31. No weaker than the offense. Where's a post that would support the OP? n/t

[Whisp]

104. give some examples.

I see none. It's just you saying this.

[WillyT]

28. Oh... It's Gonna Get Worse...

[cbdo2007]

32. Lol

This is nuckin futs!

[karynnj]

33. I thought Assange was charged in Sweden for refusing to use a condom with 2 women

I don't know if I am alone, but until yesterday, I had no idea that Greenwald was gay -- yet I would have agreed with a description of him as attention getting.

As to boyfriend vs spouse - I saw the word partner - and did not even think whether or not they were married. I wrote nothing, but if I did I would have used his name - not his status relative to Greenwald.

[pnwmom]

34. Really, this is overblown.

I think Greenwald and Assange are narcissistic and attention-grabbing -- that isn't code for gay, it means exactly what it says. Greenwald is gay but Assange is straight, according to the women who say he raped them.

Calling Miranda a boyfriend isn't a slur. Lots of gay men introduce their partners that way. I didn't know they were married, actually. The news media and Greenwald's recent reports refer to him as his partner.

Somewhere, some jerk probably is reacting to Greenwald from homophobia. But is this behind most of the attacks here? NO WAY.

[stevenleser]

41. Exactly. I didn't know they were married either. That != homophobia. nt

[one_voice]

35. Are you fucking kidding me with this shit?!

Jesus Christ Stretch Armstrong couldn't stretch like this.

Greenwald is getting shit because he's a self centered asswipe. Hysterical, out of control, attention grabbing--does not translate to gay S-T-R-E-T-C-H

Assange and the Mr. Blonde name; I always thought it was a play on Mr. Bond. Assange isn't gay why would anyone make homophobic slurs against him. S-T-R-E-T-C-H

As for Miranda, maybe everyone doesn't know that they're married, I didn't till just now. S-T-R-E-T-C-H

What YOU'RE insinuating about other DU'ers because YOU don't like the criticism of these men IS UGLY UGLY stuff.

This is beyond insulting to those of us with gay family members/friends who we love dearly. Those of us who marched and have supported the gay community/family/friends even when no one else did. Fucking shameful!



This makes DU suck!

[boston bean]

38. My gay family members and friends, would agree with the OP.

You not so much.

[one_voice]

39. Shocking.

edited to add: how'd you like be called a racist for your disagreements with Obama? Didja like that?

[boston bean]

44. happened all the time, but not because of examples that actually are racist.

I can see it used as a tactic to make some shut up, and sometimes, I did a ittle self reflection to see how it was I was being read. And sometimes I agreed that what was being pointed out in others was racist. Just like here, I find these examples to be reflective of homophobia on some level.

[one_voice]

50. Well I see this as a tactic to make some shut up...

I don't see any of what's here homophobic. Maybe drama queen comes closest..and that's a HUGE stretch. Otherwise it's a ploy to make people shut up.

Substitute what was thought to be racism in (place of what's being called homophobic). Maybe THEY though on some level it was racism. I guess it's all in what you think. You are so quick to dismiss them, but not so much here.

I actually agree you on the shyster thing--that is anti semitic.

But here, we're not going to agree. I'm not going to be quiet while someone calls me homophobic because I disagree with someone. No way.

[boston bean]

54. I think most would like some reflection, and look at it from their POV.

Afterall, these stereotypes can have a foundation in homophobia. Do I think everyone is homophobic, no. But I do think it helps to try to understand why people may feel a certain way. Whetehr you agree or not.

[one_voice]

73. Curious to know what your...

black family members thought of the racism claims?

I don't think what the OP has laid out are stereotypes, that's why it stops at the door. It's a non starter. Grasping at straws.

As I said before, the closest to a stereotype might be drama queen and that's really a stretch.

[boston bean]

76. I'm white, I don't have any black family members.

But myself, I've explained above how I felt. Sometimes I definitely believe there is merit. Sometimes not, but I still do understand where it is coming from and try to be sensitive to it. I've grown and learned a lot over the years.

How about you?

Your post comes across like you are questioning whether I have gay family members. My older sister is gay, and two of my cousins are gay. My brother n law is gay. My uncle is gay.

[one_voice]

89. Not questioning that at...

why would I doubt that? This is 2013, everyone has gay family members, even if they don't know it--provided their family consists of more than a few people.

I'm white and I have black family members, spanish family members, asian family members, and a few others mixed in.

Like I said it's 2013 most families are all kinds of mixed up. I just figured I ask.

Some of my black family members see more racism than others. But all of my family agree that it still exist at levels higher than people believe.

The whole 'we have a black president' so it doesn't exist is so untrue. Have we come a long way. Of course. But we have so much further to go.

Here's a quick example. My husband is hispanic. My son's girlfriends mother almost had a fucking coronary that her beautiful white daughter was dating some dirty Puerto Rican (he's half I'm white). Took all my strength not to punch that woman in the face. That was my baby she was talking about.

At any rate, she loves my son to death now. They've been dating since they were juniors in high school, she just finished college and he has a semester left. Good thing I have will power and didn't punch her in the face.

My son and our family help change her view on people....all people. That's a good thing.

You have to want to change though. <<<<<------not directed at you.

[boston bean]

91. I see people calling BO weak, and I think I may have been guilty of it myself.

Do I think that everyone who has said it racist, no. However, I think I have come to a place where I find see certain stereotypes being used, and I don't question the person who says it's racist or think they are crying wolf. They have many different life experiences. And also, I don't think the person who is saying it is racist is calling someone a racist.

But pointing out how these thing work, and wish that some might be a bit more careful in how they express themselves.

Because to me, words have meanings. They are used by some to advance biases, whether or not one person in a conversation is doing it to advance a bias or not, is not really the issue. They fact remains they help to perpetuate it.

[one_voice]

95. There are people who don't understand...

why it was ok to call Bush a chimp but not Obama.

I've seen it here. I'd have to look to find the links and I know for certain that one or two were banned (not newbies either)

If someone doesn't know why one is ok--Bush (you know what I mean by ok) and the other isn't--Obama. That's a problem.

Words have meaning in context historical and otherwise.

Which is why I cannot agree with what this OP is saying. I don't see any of the things as homophobic. When has 'attention grabbing' been homophobic? Hysterical? Come on.

I don't see it, and it's insulting. It's using something that is very hurtful--homophobia to further a cause.

[boston bean]

96. I certainly do see hysterical as a negative stereotype of gay men.

It is also, sexist. Pisses me off everytime I see it. Why that word to describe him? Think about the connotations. I've got to vehemently disagree with you on this point.

As far as chimp, anyone who dos that is a racist. Not a question of perpetuating racism, but plain old racism, imho.

[one_voice]

100. I guess because I use the word...

to describe myself. As in, I was crying hysterically (crying really hard), I was laughing hysterically (laughing really hard), I was looking around hysterically (looking around frantically) till I found it.

He's not better than me, and if it's good enough for me...

I don't see it as sexist or homophobic. Using that one word (which I haven't) sure as shit doesn't make me sexist or homophobic. As you said in your previous post, different experiences. I've never seen that word used in a negative way, as I've shown above.

I'm not getting into a shouting match with you over this word. We're going to disagree. I don't see it the same way as you, because I've never seen it used in a negative way. I've seen both sexes use it. I've never seen it used to hurt someone. I'm having a really hard time trying to see how it can hurt someone.

It pisses you off, it doesn't piss me off.

[boston bean]

109. Well, I wasn't yelling at you. I was making my opinion known, emphatically.

Jesus, just when I thought you and I were having a conversation, you prove to me its just not possible for you and I.

Have a good one.

[one_voice]

117. I'm sorry I didn't mean it that..

way. I just meant, that we're going to disagree.

I know you weren't yelling/shouting at me. I just know that sometimes those sorts of conversations can get heated, I meant shouting match for both of us not just you. I guess I could have/should have worded that better.

I hope you have a nice day as well.

[tblue37]

113. "Shyster" is not antisemitic unless the person using the term

is aware of that association--and I bet hardly anyone is aware of it these days. All most people know is that the term is often used as a slur against lawyers, so their insult is aimed at lawyers, not at Jews.

Some wouldn't even know that the word is insulting. They think it's just a more colorful slang term to add variety to their language, like "gumshoe" for detective, since both terms are frequently used in a certain type of story or movie.

[one_voice]

118. Hmmm...

I googled and what you said did come up--about the lawyers.

Still when I was growing up I was told it was a slur against Jewish people. Therefore I've never used it.

I will take it under advisement and go one of my Jewish friends and get their input. I've never had to do that before since the subject has never come up.

[tblue37]

128. Because I am aware of the supposed antisemitic association,

I would never use the term--even if I wanted to indicate revulsion over a lawyer's sleazy behavior, because I would realize that the term refers not just to a certain unsavory lawyer type, but might also be an antisemitic slur.

However, there is no real evidence that the term actually is or ever was antisemitic. I would avoid it simply because I know that many people would take it as antisemitic, and certainly I do not want anything I said to carry such associations for anyone, even if those associations are not historically (etymologically) accurate.

But I honestly doubt that most people nowadays realize that anyone thinks is any such antisemitic intention in the term, so I doubt that most people who use the term intend it to be antisemitic.

Since some people do think it is antisemitic, it is better to avoid the term rather than to insult people or hurt their feelings, even inadvertently.

BTW, I suspect that a major reason why some people take the term to be antisemitic is that they (probably wrongly) associate it with Shakespeare's Shylock (in The Merchant of Venice). But if that is the source of the antisemitic association, then we can be fairly sure that most people are unaware of it, since most people read only the Shakespeare plays they are forced to read in school--and The Merchant of Venice is not a play that is assigned reading in most high school or college English courses that are general literature courses, not specifically about Shakespeare's plays.

[one_voice]

130. That's pretty much...

what my friend said.

It has been used as an anti semetic term, whether that was the original intent is debatable. It's one of those words, context, target, and intent all matter.

Since it can be hurtful, I'd just as soon stay away from it.

I think we're in agreement here.

[tblue37]

132. Yes, I think we both try to avoid being offensive, even if the cause of the

offense was not originally or inherently offensive.

Context and intent really are what determines the offensiveness of such terms.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

52. My Mexican cousin is offended by your username

[KittyWampus]

55. Do your "gay family members" think being gay equals being hysterical

as the OP asserts?

[boston bean]

60. My family thinks homophobic stereotypes exist.

And one should be careful in using those stereotypes in a negative fashion against a person, that belongs to that group. it's called being sensitive and not sub-consciously lending to credence to these negative sterreotypes.

[Behind the Aegis]

70. Russia

If the OP wants to see real uses of homophobia here s/he only needs to traipse back the last few weeks (or pop over to the LGBT group) and read the homophobic shit hurled at the GLBTA population here in regards to The Olympics and the Russian anti-gay law. See, we are too stupid to actually be criticizing The Olympics or Russia because it is only a ploy to get at Snowden. There was post after post, and a few threads, where were reminded that homophobia is MUCH worse in other parts of the world, and the US is even more homophobic than the Russia (FDA ban on gay blood). NOW, we are being told homophobia is bad again, but have no examples of it.

I will say I have seen some homophobia in regards to Greenwald and that was in the form of calling him "GiGi." The first time I saw his initials spelled out, it was "GeeGee," which I didn't take as homophobic because I saw it as a play on the expression "gee" meaning 'exasperated dis/belief.' However, when the other (GiGi) started being used, I did see that as homophobic as it is a woman's nickname, but even that was played off by some. Thankfully, most saw it for what it was, and I haven't really seen it since.

I will say, I disagree with your assertion about Assange, that isn't a stretch, it is flat out bullshit! First, he isn't gay. Second, addressing our hair color has never been about homophobia (except when stereotyped as hairdressers). IMO, it waters down real homophobia by calling something that isn't homophobic. homophobia.

I get so sick of our rights being used as a fucking weapon, but ONLY when it is convenient.

[stevenleser]

77. Thank you. Well said.

That B.S. was getting so deep one needed stilts to walk above it.

[one_voice]

79. Boom goes the

dynamite!

I agree with everything you said especially this part:

See, we are too stupid to actually be criticizing The Olympics or Russia because it is only a ploy to get at Snowden. There was post after post, and a few threads, where were reminded that homophobia is MUCH worse in other parts of the world, and the US is even more homophobic than the Russia (FDA ban on gay blood). NOW, we are being told homophobia is bad again, but have no examples of it.

Everything is now about the three amigos, the hero worship/personality cult. Everything revolves around them. You cannot have an opinion separate of them. If you disagree with them you're an authoritarian nazi. Complain about Russia's homophobia, it's because you don't like Snowden. On and on.

Your post should be it's own OP. This is an assault on the GLBTA community and everyone that supports them.

It's like a child having a temper tantrum and yelling the most hateful vile things.

[Hekate]

88. +1

agree that you might consider making this a separate OP, if you can stand the ghastly responses

[Cha]

119. Mahalo, Behind the Aegis! nm

[Puglover]

122. Agreed my friend.

[OregonBlue]

36. Not everything is a homophobic conspiracy unless you are looking for homophobic

conspiracies. I haven't seen any of what you describe. I guess it's possible but I think there are lots of people who just don't like Assange and Greenwald. They make up silly names for them. Not a conspiracy, just disdain for two egotists.

[wercal]

37. I had no idea

Until yesterday I did not know Greenwald was gay.

And I didn't know Assange was until this post.

Now I don't lump them together. Assange is a foreigner publishing our secrets concerning how we interact with other nations.....and making money at it. Very bad.

Snowden and Greenwald are revealling unconstitutional domestic spying. I'm still on the fence, but Snowden and Greenwald don't deserve the same scorn Assange does.

[MADem]

110. Assange is not gay, he's an alleged rapist of Swedish women.

This is just a nonsensical accusation--it's right up there in "some people say" territory.

[wercal]

124. Well then the OP is indignant about something he is just imagining

I don't know whose gay, nor do I care. The OP seems to think it is a very important part of how we interact with each other...and I took his statement to be true. I shouldn't have.

[MADem]

125. No biggie--don't let it worry ya!

[Capt. Obvious]

42. That does ring a Bell

but no need to "foam at the mouth" over it.

[Harmony Blue]

47. I find this sad to be honest

I would have never dreamed it would come from those that identify themselves as Democrats.

[KittyWampus]

51. What? Using the bogus assertion of homophobia because you can't handle having your illusions

about Greenwald shattered?

I posted once about the Obama hate being about racism and it was sarcastic.

People on DU are obviously in the first stages of grief when it comes to Greenwald.

[KittyWampus]

49. LOL! I didn't even know Greenwald was gay until a week ago. And Gay does NOT equal "hysterical"

so frankly, I think you're the homophobe.

[Nancy Waterman]

56. Same here

I didn't know he was gay until yesterday when the story about his partner came out. But I haven't much liked him for a very long time. Too full of himself and his own righteousness for my taste.

[Cali_Democrat]

62. Good point

Implying gays are "hysterical" and "out of control" is the real homophobia here.

[Cha]

120. I knew greenwald is Gay but that has nothing to do with why

I don't trust him.

And, I'm not the only one..

snip//

"The thing we have been most concerned about is that the people who have influence over Ed will try to use him for their own means," Mattie Fein, the wife and spokeswoman of Lon Snowden's attorney, told WSJ. "These guys have their own agenda here and we aren't so sure that it has Ed's best interest in mind."

She is referring to Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald and Wikileaks founder Julian Assange.

http://www.sfgate.com/technology/businessinsider/article/Edward-Snowden-s-Father-Doesn-t-Trust-His-Son-s-4736926.php

You're right.. "Gay does not equal hysterical".

[progressoid]

57. It ocassionally happens by our less than upstanding citizens

But I don't think it's an overwhelming theme.

[KittyWampus]

59. Oh, and Assange is a rapist but I don't think he is gay.

[Comrade Grumpy]

65. I didn't realize Assange had been convicted of anything. But stay on your high road.

[KittyWampus]

66. he's a coward hiding in an embassy. How could he be convicted?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

75. Still waitin' for all the facts to come in, I see.

[pnwmom]

69. He hasn't. But when a person avoids a trial on rape charges,

saying he hasn't been convicted of rape is not much of a defense.

[boston bean]

67. Like being gay is somehow on the same level as being a rapist.

Really, are you processing what you are writing?

[Cali_Democrat]

71. Nobody said being gay is the same thing as being a rapist

That's just silly.

[boston bean]

72. He's not gay, he's a rapist... nt

[Hekate]

82. Was the OP processing what he was writing?

"How many times has Assange been disparaged for his sexual orientation? Now he's called Mr. Blond here on DU. " --> OP

[quinnox]

83. Generally, in the West, we consider people innocent until proven guilty of crimes they are accused

of. You don't know with certainty that he committed any crimes such as rape. But I understand you want to smear Assange, since he released secret government info via wikileaks, and have already convicted him in your mind.

[Quantess]

61. Calling him "GiGi" for short.

There was one DUer who really got creative with the gay-inspired comments, while criticizing him. He is probably still at it if he still posts here.

[Cleita]

78. All those attacks come from one camp whose

real agenda and purpose for posting on DU, I question. I hope the MIR realizes eventually that they are disruptors as much as any other Internet troll. They are just a little more expert especially in using the character assassination ploy.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

80. Jury results:

At Mon Aug 19, 2013, 01:44 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

I'm beginning to see the attacks on Greenwald, Miranda, Assange et al as homophobic slurs
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023489969

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

flamebait. alert on offensive posts instead of using a broad brush against those who disagree with Greenwald/Assange

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Aug 19, 2013, 01:56 PM, and the Jury voted 3-3 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: If you're gonna dish it, better have your spoon ready for your own serving. If some can accuse others of being "Hair-On-Fire, Paulbot, Libtards...", then it seems many opinions/questions are as valid.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: I've not been aware of all those "times" the OP refers to, but agree w/the alerter--flamebait.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: ITA with alerter.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.



I was Juror #2.

Before anyone replies with '2 wrongs don't make a right'... Let me direct you to this very short, and very worthwhile, video posted by a DU'r in another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3489844


I have no intention of sorting through and examining all the shit flung here to determine which is table ready. Shit is shit, flamebait is flamebait and it all seems acceptable on the DU these days.

[BlueCheese]

84. I don't agree.

Perhaps among a fringe element, but I haven't seen much homophobia involved. If it matters, I also think all of the surveillance programs are terrifying and antithetical to democratic principles.

[otohara]

86. Attention Grabbing Is Not A Homophobic Slur

There's too many attention grabbers in today's media world and the majority are not gay. Math

Had no idea the man was married or even had a boyfriend - I just found out about Bradley Manning being transgender.
Not everyone keeps up with the sexual preferences of Wiki and friends.

Verbal attacks are run amok on the internet. Everybody slams somebody everyday on the Internet - we have
become an uncivil society. 300 million guns give 150 million people an extra adrenalin rush to be assholes on the net, in their cars,
on the phone. I read comments on other sites and nothing is held back. It's ugly out there, but I think DU is one of the better sites - we aren't a mean bunch.

[JNelson6563]

87. I'm surprised it took this long.

Well let me confess here and now, I have been prone to consider GG an "attention whore". Of course I apply that term freely anywhere I think it's applicable and one's gender, religion, sexual orientation, political views, etc. have nothing to do with it. I suspect it has more to do with mummy didn't like them when they were little or something but that's beside the point.

Frankly all I hear about these days is GG. He has BECOME the story. I haven't been hearing all the promised/threatened revelations. Just lots of hyperbole and drama. Kinda makes one wonder what the real purpose was...

Julie

[MisterP]

90. I remember in '11 they were blaming gay voters for '10, but the backdraft put an end to that

[sabrina 1]

92. Well, I did see one comment that made me wonder, considering the source of the comment has a

well known history of homophobia.

I don't think however, that everyone who supports the NSA is homophobic, that is not a fair statement imo.

I do however cringe when I see any statement about Greenwald and Miranda from at least that one person. Being 'clever' with words doesn't hide everything. Or constantly affirming one's 'support' for something only makes me wonder 'why the need to do that'.

Other than that, as far as DU goes, I would hesitate to paint everyone with that broad brush. It simply isn't fair.

However, if you mean those behind the attacks, consider who supports the NSA eg, Cheney, King, Palin et al, it would not surprise me at all and ordinary people might be inadvertently being used to push their agenda.

[LittleBlue]

93. Even though I support Greenwald and Snowden 100%

I always attributed this to security state fascist types, not necessarily homophobia.

Who knows everyone's motivation, really.

[MADem]

101. There's one big stinking problem with your "theory" there....

Assange is the alleged HETEROSEXUAL rapist.

The James Blond joke has everything to do with his "secret agent" affectations and his platinum hair. It's a play on JAMES BOND--who, AFAIK, isn't gay.

Glenn Greenwald IS a drama queen--he gets furious and takes to Twitter, excoriating frantically in a less-than-journalistic fashion.

Why in the world, I wonder, did you think Assange was gay? Did you sleep through the very reason he's hiding out in the Ecuadorian Embassy?

Greenwald calls Miranda his husband/spouse, but they aren't married. He's a domestic partner. See--he even calls him "partner" here: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/david-miranda-detained-uk-nsa


I think you are flailing, desperately, for outrage. You haven't gotten your facts straight so I can't take your remarks very seriously, sorry.

[George II]

102. Utterly ridiculous, that is REALLY stretching to create a "story" - isn't Assange heterosexual?

[another_liberal]

106. Definitely . . .

Some of the attacks on these individuals are definitely intended to take advantage of anti-gay sentiments where those exist.

[Enrique]

111. i see it occasionally

I think it actually originates in defending Obama, and then in the course of doing that, people's minds go in various unrelated directions, for example showbiz gossip about Matt Damon. And yes, occasionally it goes in less harmless directions like the ones in your OP. In once case someone made some ignorant comment about all of Latin America, in the midst of the plane grounding flap. Was it really about Latin America? No, more likely it was about Obama.

[Bluenorthwest]

133. ""Latin America is but a cyst on the anus of the world." Is the quote. How is that a defense of

Obama? How is it anything other than pure xenophobia and bigotry of the most Coulter like kind? To blame Obama for such language is a horrible misuse of the President, those who say shit like that need to own it. The one who did sure stood by it. Great way to welcome that Latino vote! Such tactics should be seen only in the Republican Party.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023172626#post29

[Helen Borg]

112. Assange?

Not sure I follow. He is in trouble because he is accused of rape by two women and you say he is gay? News to me and rather bizarre.

[Aerows]

126. That has always been an element of it

and it has disgusted me from the get go. Ask the perpetrators, they are the most liberal people in the universe, and they really embrace those sissies, f???, and d???s.

[Bluenorthwest]

127. Here is one of the first of the 'Greenwald is gay!!!' threads, from 2011.

A taste below, many of the same characters from that thread are around DU still harping on the same string:
"I have found out that Greenwald is Gay, and I know from a lot of posts here at DU that many of the LGBT community here at DU are disenchanted with Obama. I find that interesting, because all of the LGBT community outside of DU strongly - and I mean STRONGLY - support him! I have many friends and co-workers who are LGB ( I had two friends who were T in the past, but we have lost touch as happens so often with friends) and they are appalled at Greenwald’s portrayals of Obama’s policies."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/100297376

[last1standing]

129. I think there are a few who have used homophobic terminology but not many.

And I doubt very many here are trying to be homophobic with the exception of those posting things like "GiGi" and "Mr. Blonde."

Just as I opposed throwing out the race card against DUers who support NSA safeguards and whistle blowers, I oppose trying to tar those who don't agree with me on this issue as homophobes.

[JoeyT]

136. The only thing stopping openly homophobic slurs

is the fact that the only prize it will win them here is a banhammer. On less enlightened message boards, that isn't really the case, and the NSA supporters are a bit more open in their language.

You forgot referring to Greenwald as "GiGi", btw. Which is about as close to openly homophobic as one can get and still maintain plausible deniability.