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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKUCINICH: Abolish The NSA And Give Snowden A Parade
Rep. Dennis Kucinich: Abolish The NSA And Give Snowden A Parade
from the taking-a-stand dept
There was a showing of the new documentary, Terms and Conditions May Apply late last week in Washington DC, and Rep. Dennis Kucinich stopped by and made some very pointed remarks while discussing the NSA's surveillance activities. The (well-timed) documentary, of course, looks at how companies and the government use and abuse everyone's digital data. Kucinich's remarks are well worth listening to, as he suggests that Congress should abolish the NSA, while also saying that Ed Snowden deserves a ticker-tape parade.
The key quotes come in response to the film's director, Cullen Hoback, asking what would it take for Congress to hold James Clapper accountable for lying to Congress:
Well, you know it's illegal to lie to Congress, but everyone lies to Congress. As soon as they raise their right hand, watch out! Clapper should be held responsible, but he won't be, because that's the condition we're in right now. In a just world, Snowden, we'd be having ticker tape parades for him. But that's not what's going to happen.
.................We have the CIA, the FBI, a dozen other intelligence infrastructures. Frankly -- and I'm saying this with a lifetime's experience in government here
They've destroyed the idea of privacy. We need some kind of symbolic and profound approach here, that says, 'look, you've violated something that's very dear to the American people -- you don't get to do that.' We talk about the death penalty for individuals, which I oppose, but I think there needs to be for government agencies that so broadly betray the public interest, there needs to be a measure of responsibility. And if they go beyond the pale, which the NSA has, they just ought to be abolished. We don't need the spying.
more:
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130819/01445524226/rep-dennis-kucinich-abolish-nsa-give-snowden-parade.shtml
flame away, but the man is right about this:
-- it's time to punch the NSA's ticket here. They've ruined the brand.
mho, kpete
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)Not sure Techdirt is exactly up there with The Gray Lady.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)A post reflects what is in the author's brain. Enough said.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)He has integrity, honesty, and is a Democrat.
cyclezealot
(4,802 posts)tomp
(9,512 posts)can you say judith miller. only a fool would trust the gray lady. "only a fool would say that" if the gray lady isn't covering it it can't be newsworthy.
two steely dan references in one post, pretty good.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Even without that I'd side with Dennis Kucinich, any day.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)cui bono
(19,926 posts)You do know who Kucinich is, don't you? And his record of fighting for the people?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)GOP on their redistricting plan, and played footsie with Muommar Gaddhafi and Bashir al Assad.
He's on Fox News to (1) say bad things about current Democrats and (2) act like the crazy tool he is to discredit Democrats in general.
Abolishing the NSA is about as mature a response as insisting the government would never lie to us.
Progressive dog
(6,861 posts)former9thward
(31,798 posts)Just to give it more credibility.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)List of accomplishments:
none
Collaborating with Gaddhafi:
http://m.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/08/report-suggests-kucinich-worked-qaddafi-regime-block-libyan-intervention/41953/
http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2011/08/31/qaddafi-files-kucinich-wanted-dirt-on-rebels/
Canoodling with Assad:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/dennis-kucinich-syria-problem
former9thward
(31,798 posts)You pick out bits and pieces without any context. It can be done with anyone.
Here is President Obama meeting with Gaddhafi: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/moammar-gaddafi-president-obama-and-the-2012-election/2011/10/20/gIQAIqJL0L_blog.html
Kerry before he was Secretary of State met with Assad five times from 2009-2011. Even though the State Department opposed it Pelosi met with Assad. "We came in friendship, hope, and determined that the road to Damascus is a road to peace," Pelosi told reporters after her talks with Assad. "
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/2007-04-04-pelosi-syria_N.htm
Are you going to put the by her statements? I didn't think so.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Nevertheless, it looks in hindsight that Bush's criticisms of Pelosi's trip were somewhat warranted. Especially with Pelosi acting as an envoy from Israel, as if that's her fucking job.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)I don't think his actions were some sort of PR stunt. Was everything he did in that respect correct? Probably not. Every administration since the end of WW II has failed in their missions to find lasting peace in the Middle East. I don't blame others for trying different ways.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)They're the most easily played.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Many of our politicians can make honest mistakes.
Most of our politicians make dishonest mistakes. They simply allow themselves to be purchased.
Kucinich may sometimes have ideas that I don't agree with, but he is an honest man and has proved that over and over beginning with his days in Cleveland.
tblue
(16,350 posts)People who attach themselves unconditionally to individual politicians (and writers, etc.) assume everyone else does too. They believe either you swallow someone whole or you swallow someone else whole. There is no gray area. They cannot conceive of anyone not being 100% in lockstep on every issue with people they agree with on something. To disagree with the object of one's affection (publicly anyway) means severing all ties. To agree with another person on one issue is to 100% support that individual and everything they have ever said or done or thought.
That's why some people can't understand anything we say. It's why they view everything as a criticism of Obama. They don't understand that some of us don't glom onto a pol and never is heard a discouraging word. That's why they call people like Dennis Kucinich names because he met with some bad guy. Dennis probably has done things I don't agree withI really don't study his every move. But I don't worship the man; I just agree with him on this issue and some others.
Make sense? There are probably 10 examples on the Greatest Threads page right now.
former9thward
(31,798 posts)silvershadow
(10,336 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Kucinich wanted.
Do you have a link on Kucinich collaborating with Kasich on the redistricting.
The present NSA should be abolished. The president should form something new to replace it.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)cyclezealot
(4,802 posts)is screwing over Cleveland. Stretching from Toledo to Parma. Kaptur to this day has not set up an office in the Cleveland area. Western Cleveland is without representation . You think Kaptur care all that much about Cleveland when her base is in Ohio.
Either plan in the Goober dominated Legislature would have screwed over Democrats in the state delegation. Whether it be the Kasich plan or any other, the result would have been the same. But, under the plan Kucinich favored, the Cleveland area would have had two congress members..
Get a brain.
Capn Sunshine
(14,378 posts)and starting with a new one. Thank goodness DUers have no influence over anything larger than crazytown on the net.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)cyclezealot
(4,802 posts)private contractors such as Booz Allen. Darn good idea. Get it back under control of the government and put that agency on a leash. God, only knows after what Dick Cheney did to the CIA apparatus it does more damage than good as to understanding the nature of the World.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Carlyle Group Booze Allen should be severely restricted. Private contractors should never be in control of our private information. This seems fundamental to me.
eridani
(51,907 posts)A small sliver of his old district was connected to Marcy Kaptur's Toledo district via a strand of Lake Erie beach that is under water at high tide. I'll bet he was just thrilled with that.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Have to ask him why he thought that was fair to the people who donated money to him.
pocoloco
(3,180 posts)busterbrown
(8,515 posts)Now hes the nut case liberal on Fox.. Next hell be on Dancing with the Stars...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)on Fox many, many times.
We have DUers here who are on Fox.
Actually I've seen many, many Democrats on Fox.
What is your point?
Kucinich is one of the most Progressive Democrats who has been right on most of the issues over the past decade.
I hope he runs for the Senate. He certainly is far more trustworthy than many of the current members of Congress. Very consistent on the issues that matter to Democrats.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Please. What's YOUR point? That Dennis isn't a complete toady who will toss his "principles" out the window to work for one of the most despicable agencies in American public life?
He'd rather jettison his principles than actually have to do any WORK--that's the truth. He's all talk, and no walk--that's what he's always been.
He never worked with his own delegation, which is why he had no friends when his district disappeared. No help from the PACS, no Ted Kennedys or Nancy Pelosis getting out there to stump for him. Instead, it was "Don't let the door hit ya, ya selfish turd."
Dennis is all about Dennis--always has been. A major bullshitter. Silver tongued do-nothing, a lot like Anthony Weiner. Puts on a great show, but words mean nothing when deeds don't follow. He couldn't get elected dogcatcher, never mind senator. He's a has-been.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)getting stuff done in Congress, but once the gravy train whistle started blowing, he became all bipartisany.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Democratic delegation. Caucus leaders wouldn't assign him or his staff anything critical, because he wouldn't show up for meetings and he wouldn't complete his assignments.
Uncooperative, bellicose asshole. Funny how the Senate caucus will chip in from their PACS to support Third Partier Bernie Sanders, but no one over on the House side wanted to give old Denny the time of day when he lost his district. He couldn't even get a staff job because he doesn't have a reputation as a worker. Even disgraced hypocritical former Congressman Ed Schrock (R) was able to find a job on the Hill after his public scandal, because he rarely missed a vote and actually WORKED while he was in office.
Kucinich is a jerk, a total phony.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)A very good chunk of this site is willing to embrace anyone who tells them what they want to hear, uncritically so.
MADem
(135,425 posts)firebrand oratory--and absolutely ZERO walk.
As my old daddy used to say, "If bullshit were electricity, they'd be powerhouses!"
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)In my opinion.... They are a corporation which revolves around promoting pain and suffering..
busterbrown
(8,515 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)I do, and it sucks.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)of the Republican party.
It's like getting a paycheck from Reince Priebus.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)He's on Fox to advocate his own viewpoint.
I take a paycheck from a man who has Bill O'Reilly books on full display in his office, fully in the knowledge that I help him make money that he sends to the RNC and probably anti-abortion/pro-gun organizations. My wife would be really pissed if I told her that there was no more money for her tuition because I couldn't take a paycheck from a hardened right-winger.
It doesn't work that way in the real world.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)He probably winds up a lot of righties. It's standard practice to have a shock jock type to ramp up ratings.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)progressive causes?
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)It doesn't seem likely that someone like him will sway popular opinion, as he is highly polarizing and isn't very eloquent or photogenic. He's probably there strictly for ratings.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)face of American liberalism.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)by now knows it's a conservative channel. Everyone knows his views as he spent 15 years in congress, and he has been a talking head guest more times than I can count. It's not like neutrals are tuning in to watch Hannity, and it's not like they don't know Dennis Kucinich already, so I fail to see how much damage he could do to any political alignment.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)that can be distributed later.
Usually, along the lines of "see what those wacky, dope-addled hippies want to do" or "even Obama's fellow socialists think he's gone too far this time."
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Talking to reporters and being invited as a guest on to political talkshows.
His views are out there one way or another.
Really, you're grasping at straws. This argument isn't persuasive at all.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)complicity with the rightwing propaganda effort.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I used to attend these parties with them. Formal affairs, that would go on forever. A shitload of drinking--more than I liked to do, really, but I got good at pacing myself.
At every party, there was always a junior officer who would get impossibly drunk and puke on his shoes, or in a planter, or pull down his pants, or do something horrifically inappropriate and memorable, so that people in attendance would talk about it for days.
One of my counterparts told me, to my great surprise, that this was the junior officer's job--if he made a spectacle of himself, no one would notice if the captains or admirals got a little stupid or sloppy; and the overall dignity of the proceedings for the "important folk" would remain intact.
I get the sense that Dennis is the "junior officer" in the Faux News wardroom....puke on your shoes, Dennis, and collect your paycheck!
Response to geek tragedy (Reply #2)
Jack Rabbit This message was self-deleted by its author.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts). . . then it's a very different and much better place than it was yesterday.
One more thing, Mr. Tragedy, I am 5'3" tall. I resent your characterization of Mr. Kucinish, who is just as tall as I, as an "unaccomplished twerp." If you believe the former congressman to be unaccomplished, you may refer to as an unaccomplished former congressman. There is no reason I should feel the slap you intended for him.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I associate it with insignificance, not even conscious that it began with a connotation regarding physical size.
Jack Rabbit
(45,984 posts)I am a forgiving sort. After all, Jesus preached forgiveness, and he was also 5'3", as befits one is God made man.
G_j
(40,366 posts)the snarckers, they are..
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)UFO is the free square.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)zappaman
(20,605 posts)HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)Kerry, Hillary Clinton, et. al.) were dead (read: genocidally) wrong.
He's not taken seriously because America is listening to its genocidal side and has been since at least 1981 when Reagan took office. I hope America stops listening soon, but I'm not holding my breath.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)zappaman
(20,605 posts)We're like
AppetiteForApathy
(22 posts)Or... do they?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)There are most definitely a few people around here that agree with the NSA hoovering. How Democratic is that?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)without going off the deep end and pretending we don't need to spy on anyone anywhere on the planet.
I'm sure al Qaeda would love it if Kucinich got his way.
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)it is ludicrous to pretend we do not need defensive measures against really really bad folks.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Which agencies are making it worse?
RC
(25,592 posts)And al Quaeta is our doings against the Russians in Afghanistan.
Why do so many people think we need enemies to function as a country? Most other countries don't.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)For example: do we need to spy on Ayman al Zawahiri?
RC
(25,592 posts)How else are we to know what and when to stir thing up over there?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Otherwise, not so much. If the government wants to look at various extremist organizations, there are ways to do that without spying on all Americans. In fact, floating the line that all Americans must be spied on in order to find "al Qaeda" is a very new thing. Maybe we didn't use to have such a gullible populace, not sure.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)I also don't think it's been close to proven that the government is spying on all Americans. But my definition of spying revolves around intent and targeting.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)Jump little fraidy cats, 'How high? answer the fraidy cats."
Amukans are so weak and predictable.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)But al Qaeda's wet dream could not know the difference.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)to whip out the old enigma machine.
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)Making mature, valid points like that....can't have that, now, can we?
Pretzel_Warrior
(8,361 posts)just to be clear.
The things Kucinich was right on: 1)choice of wife, 2)voting no on Iraq
Things Kucinich was wrong on:
RC
(25,592 posts)My, how times have changed.
But that still does not excuse blowing off the information in the OP and attacking the messenger.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)RC
(25,592 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)That explains the atttraction to Kucinich.
RC
(25,592 posts)It is you that is down playing his years in Congress. He was nowhere near as bad as you seem to think.
SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Mnemosyne
(21,363 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)that Opposing NSA Surveillance = Trashing Obama For Shallow Political Reasons.
They are being good partisan loyalists, and are attacking the people who are Trashing Obama. Yes, it's misguided and counterproductive to progressive attempts to move the country forward, but there you have it.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)they disappeared his very solid district into thin air .. poof. .. out from under him.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Hindsight is always 20/20.
However, it WAS the REPUBLICANS who DREW UP the new districts, Dennis just
weirdly decided to support the plan, to his own detriment re reelection.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)reminds me of "bad idea jeans"
zappaman
(20,605 posts)SunSeeker
(51,367 posts)What an insane move that was by Dennis. He should have been screaming bloody murder and threatening to sue over the redistricting.
JI7
(89,172 posts)geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)According to The Plain Dealer, Kucinich's campaign has placed robo-calls targeting lawmakers including Democrats Nickie Antonio of Lakewood and Mike Foley of Cleveland. The two who opposed the GOP plan say they also got personal calls from Kucinich.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Either positively on behalf of the few IN congress who are not corrupt, or negatively, which I take is what you mean.
You don't know much about the oath you take in any level of government, based on your comment. You are, therefore misinformed.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)What shallow rhetoric this has attracted. Kucinich is only expressing
his pov. BUT, since he uttered the idea of a ticker tape parade for
Snowden and the demise of the NSA, he's to be hung out to dry.
These remarks sound remarkably fashioned from the freerepublic.
How dreadful.
karynnj
(59,474 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)I guess because I always liked Kucinich in the House, I looked again
at his record. He was after all mayor of Cleveland and ran 6 successful
campaigns for representative from Ohio. He also sought impeachment
of bush and cheney! He fought to bring back the fairness doctrine. He
did lots of good acts.....doesn't deserve the belittling here today. imho
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)I think people really must not understand what dire straits we are in. How can anyone believe we have leaders who are on the right track? That the system just needs a few tweaks, and a good election result will make all the really bad stuff right, so shut up and be thankful we are in such good hands? They must have a special optimism and/or faith, based on what I have no idea. I think that would be my question: Based on what?
Response to kpete (Original post)
ocpagu This message was self-deleted by its author.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)NealK
(1,788 posts)liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Progressive dog
(6,861 posts)I assume that's what the latest Faux News celebrity means.
struggle4progress
(118,032 posts)Any issues, that need to be addressed, should be addressed in a more intelligent way than Kucinich suggests
another_liberal
(8,821 posts)Congressman Kucinich is correct, Snowden is an American Hero. We would be a better country were there many more like him (which applies to both Kucinich and Snowden).
kentuck
(110,947 posts)In my opinion.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)time.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)mendacious fuckers.
And he expects to be taken seriously? That's some strong kool aid he handed out over the years....
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)On December 11, 2006 in a speech delivered at Cleveland City Hall, Kucinich announced he would seek the nomination of the Democratic Party for President in 2008. His platform[73] for 2008 included:
Creating a single-payer not-for-profit system of universal health care that provides full coverage for all Americans by passage of the United States National Health Care Act.
The immediate, phased withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq; replacing them with an international security force.
Guaranteed quality education for all; including free pre-kindergarten and college for all who want it.
Immediate withdrawal from the World Trade Organization (WTO) and North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA).
Immediate repeal of the USA PATRIOT Act.
Fostering a world of international cooperation.
Abolishing the death penalty.
Environmental renewal and clean energy.
Creating a moratorium on Genetically Modified Organism (GMO).
Implementation of H.R. 676, which integrates traditional medicine with complementary and alternative medicine (CAM).
Ban offshore drilling.
Halt all Biochemical Aerial Spraying of Pesticides and other toxins.
Preventing the privatization of social security.
Providing full social security benefits at age 65.
Creating a cabinet-level "Department of Peace"
Ratifying the ABM Treaty and the Kyoto Protocol.
Introducing reforms to bring about instant-runoff voting.
Protecting a woman's "right to choose" while decreasing the number of abortions performed in the U.S.
Lowering the voting age to 16
Ending the War on Drugs.
Legalizing same-sex marriage.
Strongly promoting workers' rights.
Ending the H-1B and L-1 visa Programs
Restoring rural communities and family farms.
Strengthening gun control.
Legalizing medicinal marijuana and decriminalizing non-medical possession.
Damned right-winger!
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)Those positions scare the hell out of the conservadems.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)flvegan
(64,389 posts)Say bad things about this man! I always get a chuckle from the "FOXnews Dennis?" folks who fucking forget time and again who bought and paid for their war apologist.
Maybe listen to the guy on FOX. Oh no, not you, you purist. LOL.
4 MORE YEARS! 4 MORE YEARS!
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)one word covers it very well, "change" Mr. Obama and Congress, we want change.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)bhikkhu
(10,708 posts)...as the NSA does some legitimate work. If the US turns out the lights, so to speak, on intelligence gathering outside of our country, who thinks the Chinese or Russians wouldn't take advantage? Not to advocate fear, but its just irresponsible to end intelligence programs. The party that does so owns the problems that might come after.
On the other hand, Kucinich isn't really advocating ending spying programs, he's calling for the symbolic abolishing of the NSA, and the farming out of its activities to the FBI and the CIA. A rose by any other name, of course, but it would be a pretty hollow symbol. We could just drop the hyperbole and regulate it competently, as it should be.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)rather than actual work to get things done in the real world.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts).
Vashta Nerada
(3,922 posts)And I still do.
K and R.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)We need more of Dennis!
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)John F. Kennedy, who said that the CIA should be scattered in the wind.
I'll take Kucinich over ANY person in Congress.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)questionseverything
(9,631 posts)eom
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)a true underdog who emerges, with bus tread marks all over him, to speak for us!
I think tread marks should be the on the flag of the left, as a mark of honor for a liberal