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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDavid Miranda's Side Of The Story: 'They said I would be put in jail if I didn't cooperate'
David Miranda: 'They said I would be put in jail if I didn't cooperate'Partner of Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald gives his first interview on nine-hour interrogation at Heathrow airport
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"They were threatening me all the time and saying I would be put in jail if I didn't co-operate," said Miranda. "They treated me like I was a criminal or someone about to attack the UK It was exhausting and frustrating, but I knew I wasn't doing anything wrong."
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During that time, he said, he was not allowed to call his partner, who is a qualified lawyer in the US, nor was he given an interpreter, despite being promised one because he felt uncomfortable speaking in a second language.
"I was in a different country with different laws, in a room with seven agents coming and going who kept asking me questions. I thought anything could happen. I thought I might be detained for a very long time," he said.
...........
"They got me to tell them the passwords for my computer and mobile phone," Miranda said. "They said I was obliged to answer all their questions and used the words 'prison' and 'station' all the time."
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More:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/david-miranda-interview-detention-heathrow
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)Probably not have worked for him. GG is becoming a liability, I would not trust him.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)edit to add: Who would chose the lawyer they offered and why should he trust any lawyer that he has no way of checking out first?
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Little Star
(17,055 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)grantcart
(53,061 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)I don't believe a word any of them say.
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)...to the UK authorities, then I can heartily agree!
(Yes I know: as if)
tridim
(45,358 posts)bhikkhu
(10,708 posts)...to be fair.
Not to draw out the drama or anything, but it all seems like a clown show on that end of things. On the other hand, if we wind up with better regulation and oversight for surveillance activities, as we are likely to, then that will be a good thing. And I do hope that no one winds up going to jail over it.
FSogol
(45,360 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)only choose one from this list." And you would be okay with that.
Noice.
Pholus
(4,062 posts)All thanks to the surveillance state and its buddies on DU.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)We should trust in the British government that never lies... Iraq does know that quite well...
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)when it comes to situations like this. Let's say they haven't earned much trust around the globe since their old Colonial days which some of them still seem to yearn for.
This is a disgrace and I hope they get sued. People around the world would contribute to that lawsuit. They have succeeded in doing one thing, they have made a hero out of Miranda, someone who was not known until now.
I am glad they did this. It proves how right Democrats have been all along about the dangers of these these 'terror' laws.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)Even one representing himself.
Only a few can reach that level of paranoid.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)then yes, I'd prefer my own lawyer rather than one approved by authorities.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)he was not provided with a translator, even though one was promised to him. So yeah, especially under those circumstances, I'd be insisting on a lawyer of my own choosing and to have him present in the room.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)to contact a lawyer of his choice or have that lawyer present.
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Ya' Think?
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)Who would accept a cup of water from these thugs?
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)The language thing makes this all the more outrageous. I hadn't
thought about that part.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)at Rio airport and detain them for 9 hours, and confiscate all their laptops, etc. ... its not like Britain is in any position to protest or anything...
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Whisp
(24,096 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)What's Britain gonna do....complain about security thugs?
VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)be treated exactly the same.
dsc
(52,130 posts)the law only applies to terrorism, and the law permits questioning without a lawyer and with no right against self incrimination. He could have been taken to prison for up to 3 months for refusing to answer.
ocpagu
(1,954 posts)The only thing Brazil needs to do is saying they think this British citizen is a terrorist. See? It's that easy.
hootinholler
(26,449 posts)IMHO That really is a silly claim as a valid reason for the stop.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)like to know.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)nice
You read this part?
"It is clear why those took me. It's because I'm Glenn's partner. Because I went to Berlin. Because Laura lives there. So they think I have a big connection," he said. "But I don't have a role. I don't look at documents. I don't even know if it was documents that I was carrying. It could have been for the movie that Laura is working on."
Little Star
(17,055 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)What price is freedom?
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)if that's even possible.
This is the behavior of totalitarianism.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)And disproving the Paulbots with maps!
I wonder what you get for selling your soul? A plastic trophy?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)He should have been advised this was a possibility before being sent to get the drives--immigration/border control is notorious for being a civil liberties dead zone.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/03/ripa-decryption_keys_power/
MADem
(135,425 posts)to Miranda type warnings (the rights, not the guy--irony there) and things of that nature.
If they haul you downtown, to "assist the police with their enquiries," and you tell them to piss up a rope, they're allowed to take your lack of cooperation into consideration (i.e. to suspect that you're guilty)!!! You really don't have the right to remain silent....
FarCenter
(19,429 posts)Part 3, Section 49 of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act (RIPA) includes provisions for the decryption requirements, which are applied differently based on the kind of investigation underway. As we reported last year, the five-year imprisonment penalty is reserved for cases involving anti-terrorism efforts. All other failures to comply can be met with a maximum two-year sentence.
The law can only be applied to data residing in the UK, hosted on UK servers, or stored on devices located within the UK. The law does not authorize the UK government to intercept encrypted materials in transit on the Internet via the UK and to attempt to have them decrypted under the auspices of the jail time penalty.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2007/10/uk-can-now-demand-data-decryption-on-penalty-of-jail-time/
Perhaps they let him go if he was in the transit area and not officially in the UK. Or they may have believed that he did no have the decryption keys to the files.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)ocpagu
(1,954 posts)FarCenter
(19,429 posts)In the Middle Ages they had much more persuasive ways than jailing you.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)I don't think so, for one his license was suspended and for another what shitty advice from that 'lawyer'...
MADem
(135,425 posts)will writing--a UK lawyer would have been a better bet.
I understand Miranda's not very educated; I've no idea if he's naive or not. He should have just kept yammering on in Portuguese; pretended to not understand or pretended to have trouble with the accents; that way he would have gotten a translator, and could listen to the questions and have time to think while hearing the translation.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)I hope you don't mean when wound down his practice and therefore didn't pay the fee, because that would be an obvious attempt to make a misleading statement on your part.
Whisp
(24,096 posts)GG and you can have whatever meaning you want for that word, but there is a dictionary definition.
I've seen links with that here before, but don't have the desire to go looking around for you. Bleeve it not, doesn't make a difference to me.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)when it wasn't?
Kind of makes it sound like you're attacking the person, not his actions.
Can you see where someone seeing you say that would assume you're arguing dishonestly?
Whisp
(24,096 posts)suspended past participle, past tense of sus·pend (Verb)
Verb
Temporarily prevent from continuing or being in force or effect: "work on the dam was suspended".
Officially prohibit (someone) from holding their usual post or carrying out their usual role for a particular length of time.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)myself from teaching by not renewing my license for the next school
year and not paying the associated fee.
Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)From dictionary.com (though I'll pull out an old hard copy dictionary if the internet version isn't sufficient as source):
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/suspend
sus·pend
[suh-spend]
verb (used with object)
1.to hang by attachment to something above: to suspend a chandelier from the ceiling.
2.to attach so as to allow free movement: to suspend a door on a hinge.
3.to keep from falling, sinking, forming a deposit, etc., as if by hanging: to suspend solid particles in a liquid.
4.to hold or keep undetermined; refrain from forming or concluding definitely: to suspend one's judgment.
5.to defer or postpone: to suspend sentence on a convicted person.
6.to cause to cease or bring to a stop or stay, usually for a time: to suspend payment.
7.to cause to cease for a time from operation or effect, as a law, rule, privilege, service, or the like: to suspend ferry service.
8.to debar, usually for a limited time, from the exercise of an office or function or the enjoyment of a privilege: The student was suspended from school.
9.to keep in a mood or feeling of expectation or incompleteness; keep waiting in suspense: Finish the story; don't suspend us in midair.
10.Music. to prolong (a note or tone) into the next chord.
verb (used without object)
11.to come to a stop, usually temporarily; cease from operation for a time.
---------------
I imagine there might be a couple more if I were to look into legal or scientific dictionaries.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)"retirement" or "resigns," thus refraining from practice, and stopping the renewal fees.
"Suspension" in NY State is not indicative of someone who did a windown--or at least, an intelligent one. You have to file a motion to get your license back in NY for non-payment, and that's a pain in the ass.
I suspect that Mr. Greenwald didn't pay the fees one renewal, and then was unable to renew his license due to the NYS tax lien against him. That's amazingly sloppy, and means that he is not licensed to practice law in America.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)as to both of you.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)He's claimed it was over fees, but that sounds like an amazingly stupid reason to have your license listed as "suspended" for years when you have other options.
What I suspect is that he didn't pay the fees, and when the tax liens hit, he could not renew. So he'd probably have to settle the liens, and pay his fees in order to get back in good standing.
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)bullshit.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)attorney would be so sloppy over something so trivial....I mean, we are talking a few hundred dollars for renewal, and some pretty simple paperwork to "retire" or "resign."
DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Got it.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)Green -Come on, it wasn't that bad, We'll fight the World together and make some bank!
Miranda -Dude, I just want a cold brew and to be back on the fucking beach fuck this
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Octafish
(55,745 posts)Miranda stood up to Secret Government. That makes him more of a democrat than those who think secret laws, secret courts and secret government surveillance are OK.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)I would be beyond upset if this had happened to my husband. I am sure he was also. Don't bother replying because I won't be answering someone who is so obviously devoid of empathy.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Miranda knows what's up, when will you?
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)...this zombie water carrier is...
tridim
(45,358 posts)I don't worship people.
Miranda does have a kind of WTF you didn't tell me This could happen, dude! look on his face, eh?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)and you know it's serious...
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)What kind of a jack-off comment is that?
It's like you know the story already when you don't know anything at all. What kind of person jumps up and down on that dildo?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)in a thread a bit back..about spying. So...they say they know all about it. Or...they are exaggerating. Take your pick.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)peacebird
(14,195 posts)JoeyT
(6,785 posts)You and the people cheering it on should be ashamed of yourselves.
How did this thread turn into such an asshole magnet?
neverforget
(9,434 posts)ordeal. The lack of empathy and mocking has a conservative smell to it.......
Harmony Blue
(3,978 posts)though.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)bobduca
(1,763 posts)Ignore makes the Authoritarian jerks go away.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)the opposing point of view....which changes frequently around here...
work one angle, then another, and if that doesn't create enough
distraction, yet another! Very prolific. I couldn't keep it up if I
were them and wasn't paid....must be terribly tiresome.
bobduca
(1,763 posts)but I do enjoy having a baseline that filters out those bad actors who have shown they won't participate in discussion honestly.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)KoKo
(84,711 posts)because there are some who don't listen to discussion...are past the point of even trying to engage with...because their minds are closed...they are clueless beyond reason...or there is a "profit motive." (sadly)
So...to stay sane or not waste precious time from work...it's better to do the "Ignore." I hate to use is also...but..one does what one has to do in these times.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)the ignorance they promote. I hate to see that. If I thought
shunning would work, I'd try that....but the OTT ones would
talk to themselves, I think! Too much cognitive dissonance,
projection and snark to top it all off. These folks turn DU into
a circus at times and that is not good for the site. imho
These are very serious times. I've lived a long time and know
enough to realize this time is 'different' from other times of
national discord. Today I am deeply concerned about the 1st
and 4th amendments...we must preserve them.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)leftstreet
(36,081 posts)creepy
felix_numinous
(5,198 posts)/creeping sociopathy is very disturbing.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)very correct.
ProSense
(116,464 posts)He was used, and despite Greenwald's attempt to explain away the NYT story, it's clear Miranda had documents.
@MichaelKelleyBI @AntDeRosa The NYT got that wrong - I never told them what he was carrying - only that our work was about Snowden/NSA
https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/369591413438033920
They confiscated something, and by the reaction of everyone from Greenwald to Guardian editors, I'd say it's likely significant.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)DirkGently
(12,151 posts)Police states behave like this. Someone will opine that authorities behaving like this doesn't per se mean you live in a police state, but that's not a great conversation to even need to be having.
This IS what authoritarianism looks like.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)You knew that... now, what the hell is a matter with the others on this thread?
KoKo
(84,711 posts)so ...yeah. We are in it or close to it. Boston Bombing was a Test Run for LOCK DOWN!
It's definitely concerning these days.