General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy Britain didn't need any encouragement from the US when they were deciding
whether to detain Miranda: they had their own motive for being concerned about the stolen documents, which Greenwald has now confirmed.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023491903
I am going to publish things on England, too. I have many documents on England's spy system.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)Thanks for the post.
pnwmom
(108,959 posts)I disagree that that was helpful to anyone but Russia and China.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)It is embarrassing over there. Cameras everywhere, they can hold you and question you for any reason, and other such nonsense.
frylock
(34,825 posts)can't wait to see what he has to embarrass those idiots.
Number23
(24,544 posts)counter-productive and I hope that the Brit government hear that from their citizens.
But I am also beyond disgusted that whenever a country farts, that it's somehow the fucking United States' doing. Britain is not a "lackey" of the US. They would have ample reasons of their own for detaining Miranda particularly if they'd suspected that he was carrying stolen documents from a close ally.
The clueless stupidity that passes for "discussion" around here is simply mortifying. I am sick and tired of the "every country deserves the benefit of the doubt but America" crowd here and I'm about the least damn patriotic person in the world. It is so obvious that so many people here need to get out more and see more of the world beyond their computer screens.
one_voice
(20,043 posts)But I am also beyond disgusted that whenever a country farts, that it's somehow the fucking United States' doing. Britain is not a "lackey" of the US. They would have ample reasons of their own for detaining Miranda particularly if they'd suspected that he was carrying stolen documents from a close ally.
The clueless stupidity that passes for "discussion" around here is simply mortifying. I am sick and tired of the "every country deserves the benefit of the doubt but America" crowd here and I'm about the least damn patriotic person in the world. It is so obvious that so many people here need to get out more and see more of the world beyond their computer screens
We have women losing their rights. We have voter rights act gutted. We have mid-terms coming up in 2014. Our schools are failing. The list goes on and on.
And while what happened to Mr. Miranda was wrong, it's for the people of the UK to deal with. We have zero power there. Mr. Miranda has a country to represent him as they did when he was detained.
Now, I'm sure I'll get a picture of the nazi slaute and be told I don't care about freedom of the press, even though that's not even close to what I said.
Andy823
(11,495 posts)However those who have put Greenwald up on a pedestal as some kind of hero will never get it. We have much more serious problems here and we should be worried more about that then Greenwald. And what ever happened to that other guy, what was his name now, something with snow in it I think! I guess all those Greenwald fans were right, it wasn't about Snowden after all, it's all about Greenwald!
Number23
(24,544 posts)Exactly. But just as Obama himself went up into a control tower and ordered Evo Morales' plane down (or some of the more delusional around here have convinced themselves even though by EVERY CREDIBLE MEASURE it was the Spanish, the Austrians, the French and/or the Portuguese that were involved) these same folks will now say that Obama ordered Miranda to be restrained, even though ONCE AGAIN there are no credible sources saying anything of the sort. God Almighty.
Apparently every country on earth is a subsidiary of the United States government -- until they do something right.
I mean it is simply MORTIFYING to see some of the conversations around here. And by the same crowd about to break their damn arms patting themselves on the back with how "informed" they are.
pnwmom
(108,959 posts)And Britain is not our lackey.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)Might as well be signed in blood.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement
United Kingdom United States of America Agreement (UKUSA, /juːkuːˈsɑː/ ew-koo-sah)[1][2] is a multilateral agreement for cooperation in signals intelligence between the United Kingdom, the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. The alliance of intelligence operations is also known as Five Eyes (FVEY). It was first signed in March 1946 by the United Kingdom and the United States and later extended to encompass the three Commonwealth realms of Canada, Australia and New Zealand. The UKUSA Agreement was a follow-up of the 1943 BRUSA Agreement, the World War II agreement on cooperation over intelligence matters.[3] This was a secret treaty, allegedly so secret that it was kept secret from the Australian Prime Ministers until 1973.[citation needed]
The agreement established an alliance of five English-speaking countries for the purpose of sharing intelligence, especially signals intelligence. It formalized the intelligence sharing agreement in the Atlantic Charter, signed in 1941, before the entry of the U.S. into the conflict.[4]
History
The agreement originated from a ten-page BritishU.S. Communication Intelligence Agreement, also known as BRUSA, that connected the signal intercept networks of the U.K. Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) and the U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) at the beginning of the Cold War. The document was signed on March 5, 1946 by Colonel Patrick Marr-Johnson for the U.K.'s London Signals Intelligence Board and Lieutenant General Hoyt Vandenberg for the U.S. StateArmyNavy Communication Intelligence Board. Although the original agreement states that the exchange would not be "prejudicial to national interests", the United States often blocked information sharing from Commonwealth countries. The full text of the agreement was released to the public on June 25, 2010.[5]
Under the agreement, the GCHQ and the NSA shared intelligence on the Soviet Union, the People's Republic of China, and several eastern European countries (known as Exotics).[6] The network was expanded in the 1960s into the Echelon collection and analysis network.[7]
In July 2013, as part of the 2013 Edward Snowden revelations, it emerged that the NSA is paying GCHQ for its services, with at least £100 million of payments made between 201013. [8]
Collection mechanisms
The UKUSA alliance is often associated with the ECHELON system; however, processed intelligence is reliant on multiple sources of information and the intelligence shared is not restricted to signals intelligence.
The "Five Eyes" in question are
USA National Security Agency
United Kingdom Government Communications Headquarters
Canada Communications Security Establishment
Australia Defence Signals Directorate
New Zealand Government Communications Security Bureau
Global coverage
Each member of the UKUSA alliance is officially assigned lead responsibility for intelligence collection and analysis in different parts of the globe.
Australia
Australia hunts for communications originating in Indochina, Indonesia, and southern China.
Canada
Formerly the northern portions of the former Soviet Union and conducting sweeps of all communications traffic that could be picked up from embassies around the world. In the post-Cold War era, a greater emphasis has been placed on monitoring satellite, radio and cellphone traffic originating from Central and South America, primarily in an effort to track drugs and non-aligned paramilitary groups in the region.
New Zealand
The Waihopai Valley Facilitybase of the New Zealand branch of the ECHELON Program.
New Zealand is responsible for the western Pacific. Listening posts in the South Island at Waihopai Valley just south-west of Blenheim, and on the North Island at Tangimoana. The Anti-Bases Campaign holds regular protests in order to have the listening posts closed down.
United Kingdom
Europe, Africa, and European Russia.
United States
Monitors most of Latin America, Asia, Asiatic Russia, and northern China.
MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Too bad for them!
neverforget
(9,436 posts)to an ongoing leak in the US. We share highly classified intelligence with them and their goals are mostly the same as ours. This leak affects them too.