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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIs it time to throw Obama under the bus? Is it time for Obama to throw people under the bus? Bush?
The context of these two questions, of course, is with regard to spying on everyone, everywhere, all the time.
The questions are simplified for those of/among us who had sufficient insider knowledge or information (leaks) to have full knowledge spying on everyone, everywhere, all the time was happening. The military-intelligence electronic infrastructure was designed to be monitored before it evolved into the Internet with public access. The capability to monitor everything is more recent. Some of us knew directly or via leaked information that Bush was doing this illegally or quasi-illegally, and reported same. Some remained in the dark or choose to not believe it. To get to the simplification, some of us had well-informed opinions of this matter when George W. Bush was President, and we sure metaphorically threw him under their bus. Which brings us to a third question.
What kind of person are you, one whose thinking is shaped by political tendency to favor a party or politician, or one who has their own independent political opinions that are a guide to one's own multitudinous opinions of politicians and political parties and their diverse activities? Well, at the end of the day their are just human agents taking actions while political parties are conceptual entities, tools of human agency. Thus the narrower question, a focus on Obama and by inference any politician, focuses directly on the individuals not parties, while parties are relevant to our individual responses to knowledge of the spying. If you knew or believed the spying was happening on Bush's watch, this question is easier to answer (albeit contextualized by illegalities and changes in law under Bush).
The next question depends a lot on how you answer the last one. So, the topic is best confined to the already very broad discussion outlined above and restated as:
Regarding spying, Who needs to be thrown under this bus? There's lots of room.
This all moves us on from the implicit question in all this, "Is the United States of America spying on everyone, everywhere, all the time?"? After Snowden the situation seems to be "asked and answered" instead of "leaks and whistleblowers indicate."
Personally, I think Obama should throw Bush under the bus and reverse course on spying by turning it into a national and global dialogue a la democracia.
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Little Star
(17,055 posts)Coyotl
(15,262 posts)We need Obama fixing this mess.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)He needs to think the mess is more than a public relations nightmare first. I am not sure he thinks it is anymore than that.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)he's only made changes to expand it. sigh.
The whole Patriot Act, not much good change there.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)Should be thrown under an actual bus.
Literally.
Not you. But everybody else.
Yup.
I don't think there's any more room under the bus.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)
bhikkhu
(10,711 posts)which the repugs are busy organizing as a last ditch (and potentially permanent) tactic to derail the ACA program?
That would be my question.
The NSA thing does call for more regulatory oversight, but it doesn't have nearly the impact that killing the ACA would. The health care law is the biggest reform in a long time, nearly achieved, to impact a long tradition of inequality in this country. I'm prone to think its more important. The repugs are dead set against it for a reason.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Obama had his change to renounce the spying, blame it on Bush, and institute legitimate reforms. He did not do so. In fact, he doubled down on the spying, lied to Congress, Courts, and the American people, and declared war on journalists and whistle-blowers who exposed this policy. He now owns it.
The question is, does the Democratic Party want to own it too? Now that facts are coming to light, there is time for Democratic Congressmen and Senators to denounce this and rein in the abuse of power and shredding of the Bill Of Rights. If they do so, they will largely remain untarnished by the scandal. If they fail to do so, they will also own it.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)It ain't over 'til the next gal (or guy) takes over!
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)That and his embrace of corporatism are Obama's legacy.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)And don't kid yourself, this is a run-up to Obama's impeachment after the 2014 fixed elections.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)That phrase (to me) insinuates that the person is not really deserving of the actions taken against them. They are just taken against them as an appeasement. An example of this is that the * regime threw Saddam Hussein under the bus in regards to terrorism and WMDs. Then they murdered him.
It is NOT throwing under the bus to make * and company answer for their unconstitutional actions. It is also not throwing under the bus to have our current leadership answer for the continuation of the same policies.
Coyotl
(15,262 posts)Some people may not deserve to get blamed and are throw under the bus anyway, but fingering a deserving person also throws them under the metaphorical bus in my view.
What I am certain about and I think everyone will agree, there is always more room under the bus. 
