Skinner drops shocking NSA bombshell

[East Coast Pirate]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592979

We do have access to members' IP addresses.
I think this is going to shock some people...

It looks to me like the people who repeatedly accuse other DUers of being paid disruptors are all logging on from the NSA.

[Vinnie From Indy]

1. Holy Guacamole!

[The Magistrate]

2. He Has A Point, Sir

In moderator days, we treated such statements as personal attacks; they were removed, people who persisted in making such attacks even so drew warnings, were even on occasion banned.

It is a very offensive and disruptive tactic, that really has no place in discussing issues here.

[East Coast Pirate]

4. True

Still, I thought Skinner's reply was funny.

[LordGlenconner]

5. What about people who start OPs about creating schisms

And how proud they are of helping create that atmosphere on DU? Would they have been banned in the old days as well?

[The Magistrate]

18. By That, m'Lord, I Suspect You Mean People Posting Views Different Than Yours?

You, like anyone else, are responsible for your own actions, whatever others may do. Even in the face of provocation, a person chooses to respond, and how they will respond if they choose to.

It is true threads could be locked if it seemed their sole purpose to incite; the term of art was 'flame-bait'. Very little posted on the subject of the NSA here now would have met that criterion.

[LordGlenconner]

51. The thread was clearly flame bait

I was actually quite shocked it was allowed to stand, but the author has many sycophants.

[JoeyT]

16. It's been a recurring theme for a while.

The people being accused of it now were the people doing the accusing a few months ago, and will be doing the accusing again in the future, and will be accused beyond that.

While I think it's funny that people that make that accusation become indignant when it's leveled at them, whichever way it's pointed at the time, I dislike accusing people of being paid posters, no matter who's being accused. If you assume everyone arguing with you isn't posting in good faith, you're not actually arguing or debating, you're rehearsing prejudices or just making noise for its own sake.

No matter which way it swings, it's pretty obvious the vast majority aren't paid posters. There's a simple litmus test: Have they ever taken a controversial position that no one would pay money for? If the answer is yes, you've got damn near certain proof the person you're talking to isn't a paid poster. Given the nature of DU, that's about 99.9% of us.

[Cha]

68. Those were the days! Skinner also had this to say about "the paid shill witch hunt"..

Skinner (57,880 posts)

1. This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.
It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592697#post1

[pintobean]

3. Lol. That's great.

ETA - Thanks for posting. We can't rec ATA threads, so I recced this one.

[uponit7771]

6. Isn't that the tin foil hat emoticon? Confused on what is being said but if folk are posting from

...the NSA then that's really fucked up.

That should go viral

[Autumn]

28. It's a joke. Skinner made a funny.

[msanthrope]

7. I guess we got to Skinner! nt

[Cali_Democrat]

8. Stasi!!!!

[LordGlenconner]

55. +1

[Wait Wut]

9. You didn't know this?

Wow. I had my suspicions about Skinner from day one. His ninja speak is a dead giveaway.




'cuz some people need it. And, 'cuz others will believe it.

[dixiegrrrrl]

27. He was fine until he became a parent..

Democracy goes out the window when you have toddlers.......trust me, I know.

[Wait Wut]

35. LOL!

It's been so long I forgot how easy it is to become a tyrant, fascist and dictator when dealing with a toddler! When my son was little I could've used some of the NSAs tracking skills!

[KittyWampus]

60. Your post is really, REALLY funny. I wish you'd do it as an OP.

[PowerToThePeople]

29. Maybe I read his reply wrongly.

I took the response and tin-foil hat as mocking my initial question. And, if that was the point, well...

[Wait Wut]

33. I think Skinner is just in a good mood.

He answered your question and then decided to add his own little snark to the answer. Probably due to a little frustration regarding some of the discussions going on lately.

I honestly don't think the tinfoilhat was directed at you.

[PowerToThePeople]

38. I do not want to think that

But, I guess I am jumpy. I have been feeling a lot of heat from personal attacks recently here.

[Wait Wut]

42. Well, stop it.

We're all just humans here. No one is out to get you. Except me, but I'm after everyone.

As far as personal attacks go, alert on them. I have zero tolerance for that crap. If I'm on the jury I'll 99% vote to hide.

[snooper2]

54. After you close the kitchen window that is cracked open

you won't be so jumpy, Enjoy this to relax!

[Cha]

69. I took it as .. Skinner really does not like the "paid shill witch hunt"

Skinner (57,880 posts)

1. This whole who-is-the-paid-shill witch hunt is disruptive nonsense.
It betrays an utter lack of creativity on the part of the people making the accusation. They are so convinced that they are right that they cannot imagine someone else might hold a different point of view in good faith. Either that or they are incapable of advocating for their own point of view on the merits.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12592697#post1

I don't thnk he was directing the at the poster who had the IP question, either.

[warrior1]

10. you can either have the internet or privacy

you can't have both.

[Ohio Joe]

11. ATA is one of my favorite Groups...

It's some really funny shit sometimes

[ismnotwasm]

12. Heh!

[HappyMe]

13. LOL!

Too funny!

[Fire Walk With Me]

14. Anyone at the NSA would know their IP address would show. If not, fireable offense. n/t

[PowerToThePeople]

17. the thought was the lone individual posting with multiple accounts.

I still think it is a valid question. Someone else brought it up in an OP in GD. I will monitor this thread to get a good "ignore list" built up.

[TBF]

37. Yeah - they can catch that.

Those kinds of accounts are caught with software these days.

Sometimes it is tricky though - if you have people posting from a large public library for example ...

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. I had a program once that tracked DU

It only tracked who was on in general if viewers came from a government site, comcast, verizon, foreign etc.

It worked on my old Pc not my mac. Maybe they updated it. I can't remember its damn name though


It gave percentage statistics in general and numbers of viewers at a given time.

Government IP's viewers grew when things were happening, which meant DU was being viewed from a government site, some honest DUers at work and others were maybe agent Mike as we called him.

It didn't identify individuals posters or observers just where they were watching from.

MY post back then caused quite a commotion as you might understand.

Government observation was from 8 to 22% but this was years ago with the old DU

[tkmorris]

41. I don't see how that program could work...

Unless it had access to DU server data. I know the software that this forum runs on routinely logs that info (all websites do) but third parties should not have access to that information.

[Ichingcarpenter]

52. Well it wasn't obtrusive

I think I got it for free for personal site monitoring.that only looked at traffic .Others tried it and got the same results that verified my findings. This was maybe 7 to 9 years ago DU has been upgraded 3 times since its birth so I don't know if it even would work now..

[Ed Suspicious]

30. I know, you would think with all that tech expertise they might use proxy servers.

[Skraxx]

61. Well, Generally We...Err I Mean They...Oh Shit!

Never mind. Carry on.

[hootinholler]

15. OFFS

Shirley, he's joking.

[Fire Walk With Me]

49. And don't call me surely. n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

19. LOL!

or if you're taking this seriously.

[Cali_Democrat]

21. Yup

The people who accuse DUers of being paid NSA shills, cannot be taken seriously.

Yup yup.

[MineralMan]

20. That's funny. I remember someone somewhere whining about

all the IP addresses and website referrals that seemed to be from Reston, VA. That was evidence, of course, that the government was spying on that particular website. Of course, there are tons of government organizations that might generate IP addresses from Northern VA. But so did all of the people using AOL and then going to other websites.

I believe that area is still a source of lots of website traffic, which may well be what Skinner is poking fun at.

It's pretty amazing how people jump to conclusions over things they don't really understand.

[TBF]

40. Reston is a large suburb in northern virginia

with houses, apartments etc along w/businesses. It's true that there are gov't agencies out there, but there are also many gov't employees (staffer levels especially) that live in places like Reston. I lived near that area for some time when I worked in law firms in DC. So you are just as easily getting staff who are interested in gov't issues ...

FYI - the NRA is out in Fairfax (huge beautiful building as you might expect) so that's the type of IP address you'd be looking for if you had a war room of folks working from there

[MineralMan]

45. Yes, I know. I'm commenting that people jump to conclusions a lot

when they don't understand how something works.

[kentuck]

22. Skinner is giving IP addesses to the NSA?

If that were true, I would have a problem. However, it is my understanding that we all have an IP address? So, what's the big deal?

[Arkansas Granny]

23. Hasn't this always been the way they identified sock puppets?

[PowerToThePeople]

24. I am not sure

that is why I asked the question. The answer was, well, .....

[HappyMe]

26. Yup.

Socks, zombies, returning disruptors.

[Sheepshank]

31. ooops...forgot to include multiple identities n/t

[HappyMe]

36. I thought socks covered that.

[Sheepshank]

43. it probably did...if I took "socks" to mean the same thing as you intended :)

[greatauntoftriplets]

32. Moderators would ask Admin to run an IP check to determine this.

I think only one moderator (not me) had the capability or knowledge to do IP checks.

[pintobean]

34. Anyone can find their own IP info at this link:

http://www.ip-address.org/lookup/ip-locator.php
(scroll down for your info)

It will basically just show your ISP and the city you're in. If you're posting from work, it might show that info. Anyone who knows someone's IP can plug that in and get their info. One way to get around this is to use a proxy server that will hide your IP and replace it with theirs.

[KharmaTrain]

47. I See Hundreds Of IP Addresses Daily...

...working with internet radio servers. Anytime someone pops the play button the server grabs its IP, the type of player and then how long they're listening...then it puts the info on a Google map. Proxy servers don't always work as I've gotten reports with both the proxy IP and the originating IP. I'm sure someone with real knowledge could trace this stuff to the specific machine...

[backscatter712]

39. You'd think the NSA or their contractors would use proxies.

Hell, they have backdoor access to every ISP in the US, so I doubt that getting Comcast or Verizon IP addresses to post from would be hard for them.

[Skraxx]

62. We Do. I Mean, They do.

Oops.

[tridim]

44. Shocking!!!!!!!!111 common and on by default.

http://httpd.apache.org/docs/1.3/logs.html

IMO most of this NSA FUD is based on pure ignorance of technology.

[MineralMan]

57. The Internet: How DOES it work?

Apparently, almost nobody using it has much of an idea. More's the pity. Lacking any information, all sorts of assumptions are made, and continual surprise is the order of the day.

So, here's how the Internet works for you, if you're like most people:

1. You turn on your computer or other device and wait until it boots up.
2. You run whatever browser you prefer.
3. You click on the DU shortcut.
4. You read and post.

You are alone and nobody knows anything about you on the Internet. Yeah...that's how it works...who could possibly need to know more than that?

[Coyotl]

46. I also have access to any DU member's IP address i want, AND anyone reading any post.

If you know how to spy, that is so easy it is laughable everyone doesn't know how to do it. I even have the IP address of George W. Bush's computer and I've shared it with appropriate, independent oversight organizations.

[sufrommich]

48. ZOMG!! IT COMING FROM INSIDE THE HOUSE!

[snooper2]

50. ROFL

Some people shouldn't be allowed to use the Internet-

For everyone else-


ENJOY!

[Trajan]

53. I have accused a couple of specific DUers ...

Of being a paid disruptor .... and I'm pretty sure it's true ...

Yet, ... my IP indicates I am located in the Pacific Northwest .... not far away from a few craft breweries and food cart pods ...

[KittyWampus]

66. On the old DU versions I put a bunch of DU'ers on Ignore & they almost all ended up tombstoned.

[Triana]

56. Of course DU admins would have access to that info.

It's in the server access logs. Based on IP address, one can locate the source - not to street address, but to provider/domain. It has always been thus. For those who think they're anonymous or have complete privacy on the intertubes - you don't. Unless you use an anonymizer or proxy or some such. And even then...

[backscatter712]

59. Yep, and if I were working as a paid shill or in psy-ops, I'd use a proxy.

They're not hard to set up.

[Socal31]

58. Using something like TOR/proxies completely masks your IP.

nt

[Matariki]

63. Because professional posters are all tinfoil and such

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110218/02143213163/more-hbgary-federal-fallout-government-wants-to-buy-software-to-fake-online-grassroots-social-media-campaigns.shtml

The latest in the long line of revelations from the HBGary Federal email leak, is that HBGary Federal wanted to create software that could make it easy for staffers to create and maintain a massive number of fake online social network personas, allowing them to control virtual armies of totally fake people, whose only mission is to spy on others and spew paid-for propaganda. But, what's even more amazing is that not only did the emails reveal HBGary Federal employees talking about building a platform for letting people more easily manage an army of fake personas, but that the US government put out a request for exactly that kind of software last June, with its request for "Persona Management Software."

[backscatter712]

64. Yep. An electronic Brooks Brothers Riot. n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

65. I'm logging in from the NSA, you're damn right I am.

National Stud Association.



Single file, ladies. Single file.

[Ruby the Liberal]

70. Well played, sir.

[Cha]

67. Brawawaaaaaa

"It looks to me like the people who repeatedly accuse other DUers of being paid disruptors are all logging on from the NSA."



Gotta love Skinner.

[Rebellious Republican]

71. OMG, finally Skinner confirms what all Inquiring minds at DU already knew.

Very Good, Skinner!

[Number23]

72. The man has been QUITE clear on his thinking about this. And if ANY DUer had a reason to want to

think that this place was so important/critical/crucial that people were being paid to post here, you'd think it would be the man that started the joint. The fact that he is as sick of the "paid shill/propagandist" bullshit as the rest of us says it all.

[madinmaryland]

73. Agent Mike Hunt is all up everyone's stuff here! Whoda thunk!

[pintobean]

74. He's been here since '04

and has never posted. He is willing to serve on a jury, though, and has a 20% chance of doing so.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=143728

[East Coast Pirate]

75. The ultimate agent.

He leaves no footprint.

[madinmaryland]

76. Hmm. I joined here 14 days after Agent Mike Hunt joined...