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1-Old-Man

(2,667 posts)
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 06:52 PM Aug 2013

I normally reserve this sort of crap for the weekends, but its exception time

Where in the world is this all headed? Thoughts from a yellow seat on a green tractor:

I've spent a lot of time in the last several years trying to understand what I see going on all around me. I freely admit to being a devotee of Orwell, but more because of what he leads me to than a belief that he was the greatest of seers. I've read the histories of our more or less recent past, always with an eye to understanding how despotic regimes both rose to power and fell. I take all these things to be instructive.

What is the surveillance state all about? I instinctively fear it, but then I have to ask myself, what is its purpose and where will it lead? What is going to happen to us and do we care?.

Now here is the first conclusion I came to, and its one that might surprise you. We hare not headed toward a Big-Brother style despotic takeover of the country. That simply is not going to happen.

I came to that conclusion when I realized that the sole purpose of the surveillance state is to identify any threats to it and to nullify them by the earliest and least obtrusive means. What meant was that the state was not being set up for a would-be ruler but instead was insuring the status quo. So the real point was to look at what way we are going and then to assume the state would continue, much as an arrow in flight, toward whatever end it was now aimed at and the massive use of internal intelligence was simply another tool to insure its eventuality.

It is self evident that as a nation we are much at the hands of corporate task-masters and that the trend grows by the day. Gone is the relative worker's paradise that our greatest President (FDR) and WW-II returning vets both demanded and built and in its stead we have Corporate-America. In its place we have government as the lap-dog to corporate interests and the people be damed if there is a profit to be made. I need offer up no more evidence of this than the BP Gulf oil spill, the Keystone Pipeline, and Marcellus Shale natural gas fracking to make my point. But its more than that. Its the disappearance of workplace benefits, its staggeringly low hourly wages, its the shift of the cost of retirement from the point of earnings to a mixed batch of predatory investment schemes for every individual to wade their own way through - rarely with any success what so ever.

And that is what we already are. The apparatus of the state as it is to day, with its unimaginable surveillance capability, militarized police forces at even the lowest level, and a truly dumbfounded public can't do anything but continue along the current path. So what I see as our future is a time when we are entirely ruled by an undergovernment of like-minded corporate captains with a puppet Congress, Court, and White House who's only duty is to propagate the status quo.

And that is what the NSA spying is all about, its what the Patriot Act is all about, its what the utterly unwarranted arming of our civilian police forces is all about, and its what a thousand other similar domestic atrocities are all about too. Its to let more and more fascism creep into our lives and to nip in the bud any resistance to it happening. And you know what the beauty of it is? There is absolutely no way to fight it. It know everything you do, sometimes before you even do it and even if it didn't, the fascist state is like the hydra, cutting of its head has no effect.

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Cleita

(75,480 posts)
1. Dennis Kucinich on an interview today said
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 06:58 PM
Aug 2013

we have to choose either the Constitution or the NSA. He says the NSA needs to go because it's a rogue agency that's out of control. If we don't our Constitution can't survive.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
4. I agree and disagree
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:36 PM
Aug 2013

Orwell distilled it in 1984- they want the power.

The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power.


The power to be above the law. The power to take what others have, to destroy their lives and their dreams. The power to control how people think, what they see, what they believe.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
6. But...you would disagree with this?
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:49 PM
Aug 2013

From the OP:

And that is what we already are. The apparatus of the state as it is to day, with its unimaginable surveillance capability, militarized police forces at even the lowest level, and a truly dumbfounded public can't do anything but continue along the current path. So what I see as our future is a time when we are entirely ruled by an undergovernment of like-minded corporate captains with a puppet Congress, Court, and White House who's only duty is to propagate the status quo.

And that is what the NSA spying is all about, its what the Patriot Act is all about, its what the utterly unwarranted arming of our civilian police forces is all about, and its what a thousand other similar domestic atrocities are all about too. Its to let more and more fascism creep into our lives and to nip in the bud any resistance to it happening. And you know what the beauty of it is? There is absolutely no way to fight it. It know everything you do, sometimes before you even do it and even if it didn't, the fascist state is like the hydra, cutting of its head has no effect.

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
8. Nope, but I think it's a progression
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:54 PM
Aug 2013

The corporations will in time melt, and the people in charge will simply be the gov't. The break point will be when there's nothing left to steal and shortages start due to the fascism- water, food, medicine, housing, etc.

That is why I agree and disagree. The Fascists have won...for now. They'll grow into despots with a full police state complete with a rotting world ala 1984 to go with it.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
9. I understand...you are looking "Forward." But, what about those who have to live
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 09:21 PM
Aug 2013

with it TODAY in their daily lives?

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
10. I'm one of the people living with fascism
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 09:27 PM
Aug 2013

Slowly trying to kill me. I'm near the bottom of the social ladder and the water is rising down here. I've tried to do the advocacy for democratic socialism...and people aren't ready to reject capitalism yet. So I wait and I try to keep my head above water for my disabled relative.

That's why I say the Fascists have won. They sold their version of reality, and people unthinkingly ate it up. This isn't the end though...there's always a deeper level of hell.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
11. I get down..much...but...I refuse to give up.. There are some signs
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 09:46 PM
Aug 2013

or maybe "glimmers" of hope. Folks say we are just "Keyboarders"... I think those who say that must live a privileged life who post that crap here on DU.

There are many ways to contribute. No matter HOW we do it. Even if it's by "Discussion" which is a lost art today...but, it exists and sharing info...inspires people that we don't even know are out there.

Whatever.. There's many who want folks discouraged and down. And, yes we've gotten rotten deals with compromise. But..nothing comes easy....even though this wading through this stuff gets really disgusting and hard when one felt they'd gotten through it before and there it is again!

Hydra

(14,459 posts)
12. Keep the fight up
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 10:03 PM
Aug 2013

Snowden's revelations have shaken things up more than I expected. I'm in the spot where I see what's coming and I've done all I can...but a lot of people are going to die before things get better. A lot of people already have.

Too many comfortable people. They'll get wiser as they get less comfortable. I sure did.

KoKo

(84,711 posts)
5. I hope there are many from "a yellow seat on a green tractor" are
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:45 PM
Aug 2013

thinking what you are thinking. I don't know if you grew up Rural...but as a person who did...and ended up in NYC during the 60's...and went through that turmoil...I'm trying to look at this "Both Sides Now...and Inbetween.

Nice post. We need to all be going into ourselves and thinking about the values we support and those we thought we supported that have somehow turned against us and WHO WE ARE.

There are so many "Cross Currents" working that we have to deal with. But, if you sat on a Tractor Seat...and have that view from the "Ground" ...then you know that something is very wrong in the scheme of things...about the attacks on ALL of Our Lives..(that is..those who aren't the 1% who have profited so handsomely in the last 30 years).

Yeah...we need to be thinking about this.




 

mick063

(2,424 posts)
7. A former employee of the NSA, 1-old-man has my attentive ear with this topic.
Tue Aug 20, 2013, 08:49 PM
Aug 2013

Unlike many "experts" here, this man is worthy of my valuable time. Being an old man myself, I have come to appreciate the value of minutes on this earth and reading the thoughts of an old man on his tractor are well worth the investment of my most valuable commodity.

I will probably be long gone when the real shit hits the fan. There is no selfish reason for me to champion what 1-old-man champions, except the preservation of what we both hold dear for those that follow us.

Be very wary of greed under the pretense of practicality or "logic" of pragmatic politics. Greed of power. Greed of money. It is thick in the air. It is unrecognizable to those of us that have been around for decades. It is new territory. You should be collectively frightened.


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