Between my wife and I we bring into our home $19 an Hour before taxes. Mother in law seems to

[diabeticman]

think my wife and I aren't managing our money correctly.


I am a rock solid 40 hours a week. My wife is an average of 30 - 35 hours. My wife and i have not bought anything extra --unless you call splurging on food 2 weeks ago a luxury item.

We have not had cable in 3 1/2 years.

We are seeing an average of $120 in electric

$200 in gas

$80 in water--which a dishwasher shouldn't double our water usage.

We average about $ 60 a week in car gas because of the fact I travel about a total of 60 miles back and forth between my job and home.

Wife's job requires her to travel to clients THANKFULLY this agency only have clients in the county we live in so that did cut the gas budget down from where it was.

Rent is $475

car insurance/renter insurance $150

We pay our bills and put gas in the car and are lucky if we have enough for food sometimes.

What the hell are we doing wrong?

Is Mother-in-law right and we aren't managing money right OR is it like I believe She doesn't fully realize the prices of anything now at days.

YES her budget is tight and 9 times out of ten she has to ask us for help but her excuse is that she is on Social security and pension and she isn't making enough when she was working.

[LearningCurve]

1. The next time she asks for money

You can manage it better by refusing.

[Liberal_in_LA]

42. +100

[JI7]

2. not much you can do, i'm surprised you aren't paying more for rent

[JaneyVee]

3. She doesn't realize the price of things. And wow, I wish my rent was that price.

[diabeticman]

6. In our area of PA that is about the norm. It is dying town that once had greatness in steel mills

now it has a fame of being an drug store town. Almost EVERY corner has at least one.

$475 is killing us.

[JaneyVee]

8. Your budget sounds more than reasonable. What about renters insurance?

Is that something that is mandatory for your space or is it voluntary? I'm asking because I rent also and never really thought about getting renters insurance. Wondering now if I should.

[diabeticman]

11. My parents think it is a good idea.

IF you get into the situation where you lose some massive things.


The car insurance is MORE than the renters insurance.

[Incitatus]

4. Yes, you need to manage your money better

so you can give all that leftover cash to her at the end of the month.

I thought you were going the other way and say you were borrowing.

[FSogol]

5. $200 a month for gas? Propane or Natural gas?

How old is the furnace? When was it last services? Do you have a gas range, oven, and dryer too? Is the gas cheaper in the summer or are you on a budget plan where the bill is the same each month? If propane, have you shopped around lately for a new supplier?

[diabeticman]

9. IT is supposable a new furnace BUT get this my wife and I let the gas get shut off because we

had to get a new mattress because the other one got ruined from the roof leaking. It is natural gas. Part of the $200 is a supposed behind bill BUT still at our old place the gas bill was $90 on average this place it like double back to the explanation. We got the mattress with one paycheck and next paycheck paid the gas and the turn on fee. Gas company won't turn the gas on because there is a "Leak" in the "New" Furnace.

[FSogol]

12. Look around for a good local handyman.

Ask at the local library or fire station. Someone will point you in the right direction. Gas leaks and $200 gas bills are nothing to fool around with.

[Trekologer]

25. If you are renting shouldn't the owner/landlord be responsible for some of that?

If the roof is leaking and your mattress (or anything else you owned) was damaged, the landlord should be responsible for replacing. Same with the furnace if the gas company won't turn the gas on. Or did I miss something?

[diabeticman]

27. This is One step above slum lord. He wants his money every month and does the least he can.

We switched our bedroom. Where the roof leak now has this foul smell. I keep the door close and won't let my wife in there because of her lung issues. He won't fix the leak in the wall or hasn't even traced it.

We are just biding our time until the lease is up.

[pipoman]

46. His lease is worthless

if the house is outside of code...as it sounds to be. He may keep your deposit, but he probably intends to do that anyway...and you would likely win it back in small claims..

[pipoman]

33. Yep...most states have codes for rentals

which are more strict than on owner occupied. Most states have a "landlords and tenants act" or some such. Everyone who rents would do well to read and understand it (by reading at least some case law). Apply it carefully but always know it is there. Little known by most landlords or tenants in my state, there is a provision requiring landlords provide trash service. Most multi unit rentals of coarse do provide trash service, most single family dwellings do not..as a renter you can demand the landlord provide trash service, but I am guessing he will be raising the rent..

[stevenleser]

7. You're not doing anything wrong. The wages are too low here. nt

[LiberalFighter]

10. She wants you to manage your finances better

so she can sponge more off of you.

So why isn't she managing her own finances better? Maybe there are some things you can do better but it would require closer scrutiny. Since she hasn't seen anything for you to change and told you about it not likely.

If you want to mess with her you could hand her some cat food next time and say that she can have your food for the next several days.

Maybe to better help her out is invite her over once a week for supper. That way both of you benefit. Not needing to give her as much and she doesn't need as much of a handout.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

13. i'm confused

first, why she cares...

second... looks like you make decent money. between the two of you you haul in $66K a year (assuming a two week vacation and hourly pay rate). doing math and assuming you pay 40% in taxes...take out the stuff you list and you're looking at still having $2000 per month for food and other items. are you suggesting you don't have enough money to eat?

sP

[diabeticman]

16. I make $10 an hour before taxes My wife $9 before taxes. according to our last IRS 1040 we make

about $36,000.

We survive on sandwiches some weeks.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. ah, different than what you said earlier

you said together you haul in $19/hour...when in reality together you haul in about $9.50 per hour. sorry, I was confused.

sP

[diabeticman]

28. SHE makes $9 an hour and I make $10 BEFORE TAXES together the monthly income is $19 before taxes.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

61. the way i read it was

you make between you you make $19/hour... by your description you meant the two of you AVERAGE $9.50/hour. sorry, i just misread your intended information.

sP

[CreekDog]

44. you need to learn some math buddy

$19/hour is roughly 36-38k per year.

unless you expect them to work 80 hours per week each.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

57. here's the math buddy

under how the initial post described that they haul in as a couple $19/hour and work 70 hours a week (he forty and she thirty)...

19*70*50=??? (and this is with two weeks off)... DINGDINGDING $66500.00

Now, when he indicated that they DON'T make $19/hour and it was more like he makes $10 and she makes $9 then the math works out the way you suggest.

but hey, you can be rude all you want just because it wasn't clear or i misread it... that's fine and dandy and par for the course here. it is obvious you didn't bother to read the follow up post.

sP

[CreekDog]

66. he just told you he makes $10/hour and she makes $9/hour, now you're lying, period

about them.

so much for your apology to him:

him: $10/hour*40 hours/week*52 weeks= $20800
her: $9/hour*30 hour/week*52 weeks= $14040

total: $34840/year

aren't you too busy to give the OP a hard time? isn't there some catholic school that is trying to eliminate co-ed softball and stop women from officiating their games that you need to defend?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=675963

[Igel]

71. The # in the OP was wrong.

No other interpretation of what was said.

Together, for a nearly 40-hour work week, they make $19/hr.

But their average per hour is a lot less.

If the average wage they're making is $19/hr and they work 70 to 75 hours/week, do the math.

In a later post, the OP cleared up the confusion. That doesn't mean there was no confusion.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

73. you can't read can you?

you just totally ignored the part where i said i had misread it? yeah... that's how you do stuff. oh, and LOVE how you pull shit out from AGES ago, that has nothing to do with the question at hand. you're a fucking riot...

have a good life...

sP

[HardTimes99]

18. Um, $19/hour works out to about $40K/year (for 2040 work-hours per year), not $66K. Did

I miss something?

[CreekDog]

45. a conservative poster

what a surprise they get something wrong.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

58. a rude respondent on DU...

what a surprise...

sP

[CreekDog]

63. yes, you're rude because it's rude to come here and say the OP is making 66k when they say 36k

and make it sound like they are making too much money to have financial difficulties.

all because you 1) could not read the OP 2) could not understand the OP (which most of us did) and 3) do relatively simple math to confirm the income.

in other words, you call me rude, but you post a bunch of wrong about the OP because you glossed over the details and did a half-assed job on your math

but i'm the one that's rude?

[ProdigalJunkMail]

74. once again, you simply can't read

but that is SOP of you... at least the others can see it.

sP

[BlueCheese]

19. He said $19 an hour. Doesn't that come closer to $40000 a year?

The only thing I see in there is the electricity and water seem high. But maybe they live in part of a country that needs more heat and A/C than where I live.

[femmocrat]

14. Have you had any luck finding a new apartment?

Maybe you could save a little on utilities if the place was in good condition. Good luck to you.

[diabeticman]

17. nothing so far but thanks for remembering.

[Fla_Democrat]

15. Are you doing a written....

zero based budget every month? Every dollar, spent on paper, on purpose before the month begins?


"if you tell your money where to go, you will never wonder where it went."

[diabeticman]

21. A zero base budget? We basically have enough in the bank to keep the account open. We want

to save but by the time the end of the month comes we are lucky if we have $2

[Fla_Democrat]

34. A zero based budget just means

every dollar is accounted for.

from Wiki.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-based_budgeting

The term "zero-based budgeting" is sometimes used in personal finance to describe "zero-sum budgeting", the practice of budgeting every unit of income received, and then adjusting some part of the budget downward for every other part that needs to be adjusted upward.

I use YNAB ( http://www.youneedabudget.com/ ), but I think the cost may be prohibitive. It is very good though, but it can be done with paper and pencil just as easily. For me, it was about laying my plan out, and sticking to it by the end of the month. Managed money seems to work harder, and go farther. But, that being said, it isn't for everyone. Some people swear by zero-based budgets...

http://www.fiscalgeek.com/2009/06/a-zero-based-budget-system-part-1/

Some people don't...

http://www.fiscalgeek.com/2010/02/why-i-dont-use-zero-based-budgeting-2/

[diabeticman]

36. I know my wife does something like that. She writes down all the bills we need to pay that month

and how much NET pay comes into the home.

[Fla_Democrat]

59. Net is all you have to work with

so it's a good place to start.

When I first started trying to get a handle on things, I spent two months writing everything down as I spent it. Little pocket sized spiral bound notebook, and just looked over it at the end of the month. Added up the expenses, and saw how it was kicking the income's ass. Even little expenses, over 30 days can add up if you aren't minding them.

But, you gotta do what works for you. Good luck with it, and your MiL.

[CreekDog]

48. they are the working poor and you want them to waste precious free time budgeting the unbudgetable

take off.

[Fla_Democrat]

52. Less than an hour a month

Yea, I can see how that is oppressive.

Simple fact is, the money comes in, the money goes out. Trying to know how that happens, trying to plan for that is just too much for anyone to wrap their mind around unless they are multi millionaires with a gaggle of CPA's on call.


I'd forgotten the CoE, and it's influence. Thanks for the reminder.

[CreekDog]

55. tracking every dollar is an hour? now you're being dishonest to justify your argument

i dunno what CoE is but who cares.

your suggestion is crap, i suggest they not do it.

[Fla_Democrat]

65. Of course you do

And yes, it takes about an hour to sit down and do a budget. Less than that, actually, after you get use to it. You know the expenses (lights, rent, gas, etc) you know the income ( "I am a rock solid 40 hours a week. My wife is an average of 30 - 35 hours&quot . What ever is left after set expenses is spendable, now it's just a matter of deciding how that will be spent. What about this is beyond comprehension. It's 6th grade math.


But hey, maybe they shouldn't try to budget. I am pretty sure from your replies, you do not. Keep doing what you have been doing, you will keep getting what you have been getting. Hope it works out for them, and you.

[CreekDog]

67. he just posted a budget for you, what are they missing?

can't you see the math ain't gonna add up to begin with?

maybe you didn't bother reading it.

[Igel]

75. Because it's not the kind of budget the person was talking about.

Us-versus-them thinking is pernicious. Not everybody's a BFF or hell-spawn. Accusations don't count as communication.

In any event, I have to assume from your foundationless post that they never buy clothes, that they have no car repairs of any kind or health expenses. For example.

In other words, over the course of a year what was listed as their expenses is 100% of their expenses. No phone. No Internet. Nothing else. Because if it's not in the budget, as FD said, then it's not spent.

To really figure out where money is going, you need to spend months keeping track of every cent. This isn't hard. You splurge and buy a couple of spiral notepads. Then every time you shell out even a nickel, you write down where and what it was for. Training yourself to do that is hard, but after a few weeks it's second nature. And at the end you realize where all your money is going.

FD's trying to be helpful. That is all.

[Squinch]

20. Edited to say: Never mind. I see above how I was misreading your numbers.

[diabeticman]

22. NO I get $10 and hour BEFORE TAXES and wife get's $9 BEFORE Taxes.

[diabeticman]

26. It's okay. I probably didn't explain it right.

[Cali_Democrat]

23. Gas seems high

[Squinch]

29. Gas plus electric at $320 seem very high.

[diabeticman]

32. One factor before the bottom apartment was switch to gas it was electric heat. after the gas

was turned on landlord shut off the electric to all the electric heaters in the rooms BUT also shut off the heater that heats our hot water after trying to get a hold of the land lord without much success I went down to get the hot water tank working.

My wife manage to see the landlord and explained we are still having high electric bills. She asked if it was possible if I had turn the switch to the bring current back to all the heating elements which are off but wife thinks that they all pulling current. He said it was possible BUT when asked if he would go down or send his handy -man to check the switches he said no he couldn't do that.

[Politicalboi]

38. I would take this asshole landlord to court

Document all the expenses you paid, the times you contacted him to fix these things, and take pictures. Why can't you have your bedroom back? Call the mold people to see if it toxic. I believe they check it out for free. You pay for that room every month, you are entitled to use it.

[diabeticman]

41. How do I find the Mold people.

[Motown_Johnny]

60. I know nothing about this... but...

a quick google search did turn up this:

I hope it helps

[diabeticman]

68. Thanks

[TBF]

30. Where does MIL live and why is she asking you for $$$?

I could understand her questioning if she were helping you out regularly - but she has no cause to complain if you are the one helping her on that salary.

Could you all live together and save $$$ that way (realizing that may be horrible ..)

We have lower water and gas but our electric is high - so I think a lot of these things just vary by area.

(in July - hot month - we paid under $500 for those 3 utilities combined and we are in a 2400 sq ft house)

[Shrike47]

31. Mother in law should mind her own business.

Gas does seem high but mainly, she needs to butt out.

[pipoman]

35. If they "red tagged" your furnace

your landlord is likely required by law to remedy the problem as quickly as possible..the state may also require your landlord put you up until he gets it fixed. If the gas company has not "red tagged" the furnace, ask that they do that.

[diabeticman]

37. Yes there is a red tag. His handy man did show up today but wife was at worked and since I work

nights I didn't hear him knock and I was running our only A/C window unit.

[Sheldon Cooper]

40. You won't like hearing this, but you may need to pick up a second job.

That's how a lot of folks get by these days. An extra 15=20 hours/week could bring home another $350-400/month after taxes. I know, because I did it.

[diabeticman]

43. I would love it! I have tried to find something extra that would work in the time frame I have

but no luck so far. Wife is now trying to get extra hours at her workplace they are short staffed. BUT if the client cancels wife is out of the time and a half pay she would get for overtime.

[Sheldon Cooper]

49. I have found that Giant Eagle is pretty flexible with hours and schedules.

I don't know about walmart, but they might be worth a shot. Good luck.

[diabeticman]

50. Thanks

[MrSlayer]

47. I can't say you're mismanaging.

There just seems to be too much month for your money. The rent seems pretty low, the utilities are killing you. I'd turn my gas meter around for half the month. Why are you using so much gas? $200 is really high. I'm guessing there aren't better paying jobs around or you'd have them. For two people working full time, that's not a lot of take home.

I'd tell the mother in law to screw off, you're certainly doing the best you can with what you have. Short of going to a ramen noodles and beans every night diet, I don't see what corners you can cut.

[TransitJohn]

51. $475 rent?

At least you have that going for you. It's much greater in most other places in the U.S. Good luck to you, all the best.

[Beacool]

62. In my town $475 doesn't get you a closet.

A studio is around $1,300 and a 1 bedroom is $1,400 plus.

Here's a sample of apt. listings from one real estate office.

http://www.libertyrealestate.com/rentals.php?street_number%2Caddress_1%2Caddress_2%2Cunit_number%2Ccity%2Cstate%2Czip%2Cnum%2Cmls_query=hoboken%2C+nj

[Motown_Johnny]

53. Curious... ~$200.00 a month in natural gas?

In the summer too?


I got myself on a payment plan so I just pay my average billing amount every month. This way I don't get huge bills in the winter and then tiny ones in the spring and fall. With Gas and Electric combined, and taxes, fees etc., my total bill is $156.00. Of course that is just me and there are two of you, so your bill should be higher.

Even so, unless you have a huge place that you only pay $475.00 a month to rent, that $200.00 a month seems high to me.

If this is accurate I suggest you look into alternative natural gas suppliers. I have no idea where you live but it can't hurt to shop around. I suggest starting here: http://www.peoplesgasdelivery.com/business/choice_supplier.aspx


Good luck to you.

[grasswire]

54. thank you for sharing your situation with us regularly

We care. And it's a good reminder to every one of us what the plight of the working family is like. Two people working nearly full time at near minimum wage cannot get ahead on wages in America today. Can barely stay even!

[diabeticman]

76. Sometimes I feel like I am whining because my wife and I know that people have it way worse than

we do. I forgot to mention the $200 that comes out of each of my paycheck for insurance each pay before I get it.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

77. you're not whining... just sharing what a lot of people go through

and while most people who are members on this board are aware of this, hopefully some of the lurkers and spies might read it and get a sense of what it can be like.

when my wife and i were in your position, all we could do was literally watch every penny... and sometimes that was very depressing. stay conscious of where it all goes CAN be a big help.

hang in there... and don't ever feel like you're whining. talking it out helps...

sP

[taught_me_patience]

56. You could shave a little here and there

1) The gas bill, at $200/mo is insane. My wife and I pay $100/mo gas + electricity in very expensive California.
2) $80 for water is crazy too. I'd see if you could rent an apartment... water usually comes with it.
3) drop the renter's insurance. If you have nothing, you've got nothing to lose.

When your MIL complains you aren't managing your money correctly, the really means you aren't making enough money.

[diabeticman]

69. It isn't much but after 11 years of marriage and some nice christmas gifts from family we do have

one 19 inch flat screen TV and an x box 360. We also have a ten year old tube tv

[Beacool]

64. I think that your MIL should mind her own business.

Other than that, I think that you and your wife are doing the best you can with what you have.

I wish you both the best of luck.

[diabeticman]

70. Thanks

[Beacool]

78. It's hard for a lot of people to make ends meet in these tough economic times.

I'm sure that you don't need your MIL making you feel worse about your finances. No one needs that kind of added stress. You and your wife seem to be hard working people. I hope that things get better for both of you.

[Starry Messenger]

72. You aren't doing anything wrong. The economy fucking sucks for the working poor.

[SwampG8r]

79. my experience is

no matter how much you make its about 200 a month less than you need to be comfortable
I don't know why but it always seems to be that way