We should STOP using the term "Islamist" on DU

[Ken Burch]

1)It isn't a real word.

2)It was popularized as a propaganda term by George W. Bush.

3)It's one of the ugliest terms in right-wing rhetoric in North America, the UK and Europe and it gives aid and comfort to reactionaries and anti-Muslim bigots anytime non-right wing people repeat it.

4)It doesn't actually MEAN anything.

5)None of the crimes that were committed in the name of this non-word had any connection to any of the teachings of Islam.

6)it insults the 99.99% of Muslims who haven't ever done anything harmful to anybody.

7)It grates on the ears every time anybody says it and it irritates the eye,s and mind anytime anybody posts it.

We are better people and this is a better discussion board than the sort of place that uses such terms. Let's get this annoying, bigoted earworm out of DU's collective head.

[Spider Jerusalem]

1. It's a perfectly legitimate word

and calling, say...Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood "Islamists" is perfectly legitimate. Islamism is a political movement in the Muslim world that calls for the state to be built on Qu'ranic principles. This definition seems to apply to Morsi et al, and in fact I think the only place I've seen "Islamist" used here with any frequency has been in the discussions about Egypt.

[Ken Burch]

15. The term "extremists" should be used instead.

And there's no difference between extremists who twist the Koran to justify their actions and those who twist the Bible. It's exactly the same thing in both cases.

[WinkyDink]

18. I think the descriptor ought to be a tad more precise than "extremist," like, taking into account

motive, maybe?

[VADem1980]

20. BIG difference.

Islam constitutes a political minority suffering justifiable rage stemming from years long abuse at the hands of white colonial oppressors.

"Islamist" is a racist term as it conflates Muslims with terrorists and should thus not be used.

[Ken Burch]

23. I take your point.

Well-put.

[NuclearDem]

25. Islamist is roughly the same as the Christian term Dominionist

Yes, it's been horribly abused by the Islamophobes in the West recently, but that doesn't make it any less an appropriate term for that set of values and goals.

I'm not willing to give up an academically sound and accurate term just because the right misuses it, same way I don't care to stop using "socialist", "Marxist", or "communist" anytime in the future.

[jberryhill]

2. It's like "Christian Right", IMHO

Maybe it's just me, but I thought it suggested something other than Islam, the same way that certain people abuse the word "Christian" in the political sense. It doesn't, to me again, mean "Muslim", and is nicely separated from that word, which would otherwise refer to a religious group whose members have the full range of political ideas as anyone else.

"1)It isn't a real word.

2)It was invented by George W. Bush."

I'm more curious about this pair of assertions. What is your definition of a "real" word? I'll have to go Google that.

I refudiate your attempt to deny the fluidity of the English language. I really like "refudiate" too - a combination of "refute" and "repudiate".... sort of a refutation with enhanced passion. While, yes, Palin is a complete ditz, I think she stumbled onto something actually useful there by accident.

[etherealtruth]

10. I agree

In my mind it is a term for those that bastardize Islam, not faithful Muslims

[NuclearDem]

3. Bush was alive in the 18th century?

Because that's when the term was coined.

[riderinthestorm]

4. Uhm, you're wrong on pretty much every point.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism

Its even a proper dictionary word, certainly not invented by GW Bush...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/islamism

Definition of ISLAMISM
1: the faith, doctrine, or cause of Islam

2: a popular reform movement advocating the reordering of government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam
— Is·lam·ist noun

First Known Use of ISLAMISM
1747

[Harmony Blue]

5. Would the term Calphists be more appropriate?

or no?

[jberryhill]

6. Aren't Calvinists Christians?

[uponit7771]

7. Wingers LOVE the term, the term "christianist" is hardly EVER used,...lol..doesn't even spell check

[DreamGypsy]

8. Do we have to stop using "fundamentalist" and "socialist" as well???

Certain words, spoken by certain people, can become epithets even though that was not the original meaning/intent of the words.

From Merriam-Webster:

Definition of ISLAMISM
1: the faith, doctrine, or cause of Islam
2: a popular reform movement advocating the reordering of government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam

— Is·lam·ist noun

First Known Use of ISLAMISM
1747

Should one be clear and precise about one's use of "Islamist" or "Islamism"...yes. Should the word disappear from conversation...no.

My recollection is that Dubya's first steps on this mortal coil were a number of years later than 1747...but I may be wrong.

[Igel]

9. (5) is humorous.

A lot of Xians have done things bad. Usually they're condemned by those who he claims as co-religionists. Not always by all.

Nobody tries to say that the Inquisition wasn't done by Xians. Or that the Crusades weren't done by Xians. It's a Big Deal that they were done by Xians.

A lot of people have trouble decrying and condemning what Islamists do and even more in condemning the people themselves. WTC falls? Conspiracy theories abound by those who refuse to believe it could be Muslims who did it--because it doesn't comport with their particular version of Islam. Hamas had no trouble with saying that Muslims did it because it did agree with their version.

The problem is who gets to define what Islam is. It's squishy. Because condemning another Muslim is frowned upon--takfir isn't a popular sport. Actually fighting is a bigger problem, fitna is condemned. It made life hard for CAIR.

We pick and choose those definers that make life easy for us and make it possible to further domestic US politics. Xian groups, however, are called upon to examine what in their teaching--if anything--can trigger violence, because that also furthers domestic US politics.

Over the centuries, many Xianities have purged the themes and thoughts that allowed it. This was made easier by there being an admitted diversity of Xianities. But there can be only one Islam--okay, perhaps two, with Shi'ism and Sunnism. Within Sunnism, esp., there's a tendency to deny any splits or schisms.

[Zorra]

11. I've always used the words islamist and christianist as words for

hateful, bigoted RW quasi-Muslims and RW quasi Christians who have no real clue about the doctrines they purport to believe.

I think they are good, simple labels for this purpose, words that distinguish these groups from sincere spiritual Muslims and Christians, who I do not wish to disrespect by lumping them in with religious poseurs.

[malaise]

12. +1,000

It's the new word to replace communist. The industry needs an 'ist' enemy.

[MrScorpio]

13. Agreed! nt

[Recursion]

14. It's been in academic use long before George W. Bush

I remember it in classes in the 1990s

[Ken Burch]

17. I stand corrected on the Bush thing.

The other points remain valid.

[AverageJoe90]

16. It's not an illegitimate word, IMO.....

There ARE Islamic extremists who DO seek malevolent aims, using religion as one of their weapons and/or as an excuse for their agitprop(just as the Bible get used by the Christian Far-Right!); the Muslim Brotherhood is a great example.

Though it certainly has been abused over the years, sadly: 90% of Muslims are decent people......and even many of the 9-10% who may not be so much wouldn't necessarily resort to terrorism.....

[badtoworse]

19. I'm fine with the word. I think we all know what and who it describes.

[xfundy]

21. "Chiristianists"

is an equally valid, if not moreso, term.

Christianists similarly pervert their "religion" into a hateful, tyrannical, hateful, dangerous movement. In fact, they have taken over the religion in the USA.

[Ken Burch]

22. Agreed...though "Christianitists" would, IMHO, be closer

Since it makes clear that the usage describes the appropriation of a whole faith tradition itself.

[Lee-Lee]

28. I wouldn't say they have taken over

Some of the most ardent and dedicated organizers of the Moral Monday protests here in NC are coming from religious institutions.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. dictionary.com: Islamist...

— adj
1. supporting or advocating Islamic fundamentalism

— n
2. a supporter or advocate of Islamic fundamentalism

[hrmjustin]

26. I can see both sides but it is a real word. I would prefer Islamic Fundamentalist.

[PowerToThePeople]

27. I think there are quite a few true RWingers here now

Over the past couple of days I have seen many more low post count posters spewing truly RW crap. Not the 3rd way stuff we have had going on, but true Fox news- Freeper talking points. I think they have seen an opening with the infighting to jump some more moles onto DU.

[Scootaloo]

29. Agreed, somewhat

"Islamist" does have a valid meaning. It's actually been adopted by Muslim political parties in many nations. Its meaning is "political belief that has some amount of influence from Islam." It's a hugely broad term that can cover a huge variety of political beliefs and approaches. For instance the political party that won Tunisian elections a while back is self-described as an Islamist party... because they found their principles of social justice in the Islamic notion of zakat, charity and caretaking for the poor. They're very much a left-leaning party, they just view it as coming from a religious ideal, similar to Christian Democrats in Europe.

However, the term "Islamist" is pretty much never used in its valid political form in American media, and certainly not on American-based message boards. Rather it's used as a hostile, context-free "dirty word," in the same way the American right so loves to use the word "socialist."

[gopiscrap]

30. Interesting