General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo Who Is Paying For Mannings Change?
Him or the Taxpayers.
Frankly even though I support individuals who want to find the true them that want to go through this process I do not support the taxpayers flipping the bill for this process for Manning or any other convicted criminal.
We have to many hungry school children that could use those funds to fill there tummys.
NV Whino
(20,886 posts)He's in a military prison and the military has refused to provide hormones or anything else.
Response to rsmith6621 (Original post)
Post removed
Response to Post removed (Reply #2)
Post removed
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)You should be ashamed.
Herlong
(649 posts)I may be a soldier and gay. But you were so quick to judge you may never know.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)for which you should be ashamed, regardless of who you are and whether or not I know you.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And that's putting it very kindly, I'm being really charitable because I don't think meeting ignorance and meanness with equal stupidity and crassness is productive.
You ought to re-think your post and self-delete it because while we don't know you, you don't know Manning, and you apparently don't care what he or TG or Gay folks go through.
Posting a SNL Pat thing is really unforgivably crude and rude and you won't last long on this board if you roll that way.
Take it down.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)you are definitely an asshole.
WTF??
demosocialist
(184 posts)Well said +1000
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)Definitely.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Gravitycollapse
(8,155 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)Turborama
(22,109 posts)dionysus
(26,467 posts)good work skinner
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Many transgender people are in opposite-sex relationships. And yes, even marriages.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Am I on DU or am I having a bad dream?
Disgusting.
enigmatic
(15,021 posts)You should be ashamed.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)so we can all make comments?
Your post is disgusting.
The OP is flame bait given that the answer is already well known.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I can't get it to play for more than a second or two at a time. I'll try it again later.
snooper2
(30,151 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)SNL is just as vile as the poster who posted it for doing that skit.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)That's just...wow.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)What the fuck is going on around here?
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)But really, fuck that. No reason for DU to put up with this bullshit.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)a LOT of pizzas should have been served today.
JI7
(89,174 posts)of posting things like this and almost never coming back to the thread to explain, reply, say sorry etc.
Squinch
(50,773 posts)The Link
(757 posts)Iggo
(47,487 posts)Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)of the taxpayers.
I don't have diabetes but I damned well support paying to help those who do.
I don't have cancer and I damned well support paying to help those who do.
My house is not currently on fire but you better damned well better believe I want that fire department there and helping me and those around me.
Are there hungry children in this country? The most powerful nation on earth? Then why the hell aren't we feeding them?
The next thing I support is finding out why it's so fucking expensive to help people but we've got trillions to kill other people.
I don't give a shit if someone has bootstraps or not. You want a "secure nation?"
Feed the populace. House the populace. Cure and treat the populace. Educate the populace. Train the populace. The most secure nation on this planet has a well fed, well educated, well trained, healthy, happy and sane people.
I get why the "profit for myself" crowd doesn't get. Why the hell don't you?
petronius
(26,580 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)The transphobia here is revolting.
alittlelark
(18,886 posts)+ a gazillion!
Travis_0004
(5,417 posts)If you have cancer. You need treatment. Medically, there is nothing wrong with Manning. Lack of treatment will not result in Death. Now maybe Manning would like a cosmetic procedure, but I'm sure there are millions of people would like like cosmetic changes to themselves.
Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)I don't expect you to understand.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)Read up on gender dysphoria before dismissing gender reassignment surgery as merely cosmetic.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)Do yourself a favor and educate yourself before you make yourself looks stupid and bigoted on a message board, ok? Gender reassignment is not a fucking cosmetic procedure. You should be ashamed.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)about Gender and Genetics. I strongly suggest you read it before you further embarrass yourself.
Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)oh you aren't a doctor and you didn't examine Manning.
thank you, conservative poster (anyone can verify this), for confirming that you have posted total bullshit.
NealK
(1,791 posts)What a stupid thing to say.
CurtEastPoint
(18,550 posts)ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)theHandpuppet
(19,964 posts)Thank you.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)depressed and dejected today until I read this and it has lifted my spirits a little. That's a talent not to be under-estimated.
From each according to his or her abilities. To each according to his or her needs. What could be more simple than that?
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)And TPTB need to keep reminding us they are strong and in power. Because if they didn't constantly reinforce to us how strong they were, we would see them as they really are.
Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)called Chelsea, I just found out, should have access to what would be available had the Government not prosecuted her for exposing war crimes. And I am happy to contribute.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)steve2470
(37,457 posts)cordelia
(2,174 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)That is, the thinking goes something like "I'll give you some of my tax dollars so long as you only use it towards a healthy lifestyle, like me!" or similarly restrictive uses. "Jump through my hoops, or you're not getting a penny!"
Every now and then, when OneGrassRoot posts one of her threads from Wishadoo, I'll donate something. I do this because I know it will bring a little bit of hope and cheer to someone down on their luck. I do not care if they then go out and buy pizza and sodas for their family and friends. The secret to giving is that you do so from Love, not fear.
Liberals, Progressives, and the Democratic Party could use spreading a little more Love, and a lot less fear. We, and those we help, will be all the better for it, too.
Broken_Hero
(59,305 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)For several days now, Whenever I've seen some idiotic right-wing dreck, like this original post, And I start to reply, There's Cerridwen, already writing my thoughts better and faster.
You're forcing me to do what I should be doing, instead of posting here! Stop it!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)MNBrewer
(8,462 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 22, 2013, 11:53 PM - Edit history (1)
So...
Maybe he should be pardoned and the funds saved can "fill there tummys".
Noticed that I used "he", and wanted to remind myself that she is the appropriate pronoun from this time forward. Note to self....
rsmith6621
(6,942 posts)...a commuted sentence for Manning for time served.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)napoleon_in_rags
(3,991 posts)Taxpayers will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to imprison a guy who who shouldn't be in jail. And then to hear these pennywise complaints about horrmone therapy?
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)JI7
(89,174 posts)leftstreet
(36,078 posts)freeplessinseattle
(3,508 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)choices, choices!
branford
(4,462 posts)The legal issues concerning Manning's desired treatments are worthy of discussion and will likely be litigated for years. However, if the decision was given to American citizens, or our elected representatives, I'm quite confident the discussion would be over in about 5 minutes. What do you think the answer would be?
burnodo
(2,017 posts)hasn't that been the problem all along?
branford
(4,462 posts)If left to the vagaries of the general public or our representatives, there would likely be little hope or help for the Manning's of the world.
I believe that the courts offer the best chance of treatment for Manning.
but he did just get 35 years for whistleblowing, so I doubt the courts would offer much help either
branford
(4,462 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Civil rights should be up for a vote. As Rachel Maddow said, that's why they're called rights, and not revocable privileges.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)I'm pretty sure that a large majority of Americans would agree.
DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)DURHAM D
(32,595 posts)Cerridwen
(13,251 posts)was okay; that women didn't have the intellectual "chops" to vote; that those "dirty Japs" needed to be rounded up; that the "heathen Indians" were, uh, heathens and that "gays" were mentally deficient, oh yeah, and the Chinese people "made good railroads."
Welcome to the 21st Century.
You are so going to hate it.
HardTimes99
(2,049 posts)note, I've always gotten a kick out of Little Big Man, where the Native American narrator references civilized people and white men
gollygee
(22,336 posts)We need some kind of "reputation" thing we can do when we agree with someone. I've seen that in some sites, where you can click on someone's name to give them reputation.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I dont really think that helps your argument much.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I assume you agree with that too?
Here are some basic info for you:
Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)This issue has already been decided. Not reassigning someone imprisoned is torture.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)With education comes enlightenment, and the majority often shrinks to a minority. Education is a wonderful thing.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)Gender dysphoria is a recognized condition that deserves treatment every bit as much as, say, diabetes. Other convicted criminals are treated at taxpayer expense for their conditions and problems; why not Manning?
(It's "her," by the way, not "him." Also, it's "too many," not "to many," and "their tummies," not "there tummys."
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)burnodo
(2,017 posts)These are progressive liberal love-me-Im-a-Democrat liberals! How could they be anything other than better than everyone else?
alittlelark
(18,886 posts)maddezmom
(135,060 posts)Tried to explain this to someone earlier today and they refused to acknowledge it. Kept on saying it was a choice.
RZM
(8,556 posts)I'm sure Manning is not the first federal prisoner to announce something like this. I doubt those that came before got any help from the government.
NaturalHigh
(12,778 posts)that he will not be getting hormones or a sex change while he is in Leavenworth.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Chelsea has asked to be identified as a woman.
JI7
(89,174 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)than for the wars.
also screw all you transphobes for referring to her with a pronoun she explicitly rejects.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)and all it would take is a couple hours of war costs, if that.
4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)More like a couple of minutes.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)4Q2u2
(1,406 posts)Protecting other people Heroin get expensive. I saw one stat that was 9.1 million and hour. Others 300 million a day.
La Lioness Priyanka
(53,866 posts)Contrary1
(12,629 posts)Wouldn't bother me a bit as a taxpayer. At least there would be something positive to show, unlike the neverending wars this country seems to have a fetish for.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)That, to me, may be the most questionable part.
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)And it's really ugly for you to try to make an issue of it at this point...your OP sounds like something from the Fox News comment boards.
Why are you stirring up shit about a person who hasn't done anything to you or to anyone's else. It's barbaric that this young person is facing a 35 year prison sentence just for trying to make sure the people know the truth about the "national security state".
I'd tell you to go back under a rock...but I can't imagine which rock would have you.
Love, Grandma.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)And then continue to go back and forth on it.
Spirochete
(5,264 posts)and release him immediately, so he can get to work on that. There's no need to spend any more money on keeping him incarcerated, either.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)Manning has asked to be identified as female.
Spirochete
(5,264 posts)Spaced it. I'll get used to it. Thanks.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:48 AM - Edit history (1)
Link to some basic info about Gender and Genetics:
Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
Correcting myself: Chelsea surgery should be free because medical treatment is Basic Human Right.
Thank you to joshcryer for pointing to me my moronic mistake.
joshcryer
(62,265 posts)It should be a right.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I corrected my post.
PDJane
(10,103 posts)tortured, treated abominably by the state and the military....she has no more damaged the US than I have. Personally, I feel that the military should pay for his gender change and assist through that change if they are going to continue to incarcerate her. The US is damaging its international standing with its treatment of Manning and Assange and Snowden et al.
A little compassion would help. I am astounded at the viciousness I've seen here and elsewhere today. It's disgusting.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)I posted a link here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023519099
It just keeps sinking here on DU and they are asking for our support for "Full care for transgender veterans".
I would have re-posted the Change.org petition request here but it would just get lost in this long thread. Can you think of another way for me to get the attention of DUers about the petition?
PDJane
(10,103 posts)I have signed it, and wish that I had a better solution. It seems that the prejudice remains, even in liberals.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)I can't believe it would be necessary to post it in LGBT but your right who knows anymore here on DU.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Some basic info for you to educate yourself:
Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Go fuck yourself.
I'm more than happy to eat a hide to tell you what I really think - the jury system is shit, since it doesn't screen out bigoted slime like you from DU, but punishes people for telling you off.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)training, arming, then defending the people Manning revealed to be murderers? How many taxpayer dollars have we wasted on those wars in the first place? And how many to prosecute a whistleblower? I wonder how many "hungry tummies" that could have filled.
To act like just NOW we have to draw the line is so ridiculous that I can't believe you thought it worth typing out loud.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)HangOnKids
(4,291 posts)Care to explain?
Boom Sound 416
(4,185 posts)Again you got me on my humor.
mn9driver
(4,412 posts)The US military recognizes Chelsea Manning's condition. They will provide her with a wide range of counseling resources and will provide medication to manage depression and other DSM conditions. They will accommodate her by providing a protected space for her to prevent any problems with other inmates. They will require her to comply with male uniform and grooming standards. She will be addressed as "Private Manning". They will go to great lengths to keep her from physical harm due to her high visibility. And that is all they will do.
The catch-22 is this: The US military does not permit transgender or gender-dysphoric soldiers. If they are identified, they are immediately discharged. Period. They are not provided with medical gender treatment by the military while on active duty. Period. The VA is different, but Manning will never be eligible for VA benefits.
Manning cannot be discharged until she has served her sentence. Therefore, she will receive no medical treatment for her condition until she has been released and discharged. Period.
In many other countries, she would have access to the full range of treatment she needs to deal with this, even while incarcerated. Not here. It will not happen at Leavenworth.
OmahaBlueDog
(10,000 posts)True. However, in many other nations, Manning would simply have been summarily executed (for leaking the secrets - not gender identity).
mn9driver
(4,412 posts)Besides, clearing the bar you set has been achieved by just about every non-totalitarian/authoritarian/dictatorship in the world. Maybe we should aspire to something better than that.
branford
(4,462 posts)Jeralyn Merritt, at TalkLeft, discusses the issue and provides some relevant citation.
Starry Messenger
(32,342 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Not here.
Zorra
(27,670 posts)I'd much rather pay for Gender Reassignment Surgery for transgenders than for Apache helicopter attacks on reporters.
NealK
(1,791 posts)Right there.
FreeState
(10,553 posts)you should be ashamed. Healthcare for all.
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)She can't pay for the change herself, obviously. And it seems to me that her gender identity issues contributed to some of the poor choices she has made in life. It's a catch-22 for her.
All I know is that there, but for the grace of god (or whatever), go I. We aren't special because we aren't transgender. We just aren't transgender.
Now, as for the wisdom of having the Army do the hormone therapy and eventual surgery, I'd choose somebody with a track record myself. Experienced in the counseling beforehand and the hormone therapy, too. That part is really important. Then the surgeries, well, obviously they're important. I don't want her to be the first one the Army does.
I think this will turn out to be a case where they admit it's not their specialty and not necessarily that they deny access to treatment. My head is spinning just imagining the red tape. But let's make some calls and send some emails, people. Maybe we can help.
Cleita
(75,480 posts)Heidi
(58,237 posts)Duly noted.
It is my belief (and experience) that the people who would deny a prisoner taxpayer-funded medical care are the same people who would deny children taxpayer-funded nutrition.
MADem
(135,425 posts)they won't pay for any surgery and they also will house him with those of the same biological sex.
Manning's prison companions will be male. The guards, and the inmate leaders, will be aware of Manning's gender identity issue, and they'll do their part to ensure that Manning isn't abused. They may provide him with additional privacy considerations if they think he needs it, like separate shower time.
On the positive side, military prisons don't have all that shanking and physical abuse that civilian ones do. They just don't. They have "cliques" but those cliques understand that a peaceful environment benefits all. There are tangible rewards for good behavior, and people do tend to wear their rank -- even as they don't have it anymore--and they won't hesitate to pipe up if the harmony is disturbed. The result is more order, more discipline. They are generally "no drama" places. Not a lot of disruptions.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Am very supportive but don't think the govt should pay for it. And that doeant make me transphobic.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)since this is the only one, it does make you transphobic.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Life isn't blacknor white / all or nothing......
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)NealK
(1,791 posts)olddots
(10,237 posts)I hadn't put anyone on ignore today ---you're the first
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)However, looks like the military is not going to allow it at any costs.
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)kentauros
(29,414 posts)We've all read how hackers (often government-backed) are flooding online boards with bots to sway opinion and disrupt things. The OP reads like a bot, not to mention the profile is pretty lacking in details.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,280 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 23, 2013, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)
JustAnotherGen
(31,683 posts)Dishonorably discharged so will not be eligible for any veteran's benefits. Even if the military DID provide for gender reassignment she would not be eligible.
She. She. She.
In regards to the case and decision: Bradley.
The minute that person referred to herself as Chelsey - you have to respect that.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)I'm all for questioning military spending, but even if the Army were paying for it (which they aren't), gender reassignment surgery is about 0.0000001 percent of their bloated trillion-dollar budget.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Same answer.
Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)If he hadn't been tried and imprisoned, we could have saved a lot of money....not to mention over trying and imprisoning a whistle blower.
DiverDave
(4,874 posts)business, she doesnt answer to YOU.
rug
(82,333 posts)But if they're going to look him up for 35 years, they have an obligation to address his medical needs.
steve2470
(37,457 posts)1- Gender Dysphoria (which Chelsea Manning has, I believe) is a legitimate medical condition per DSM-5 .
2- Prisoners are entitled to adequate medical care.
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Transgenders pay taxes also. As much or more than you do. You get government services even tho you aren't a transgender and part of those services are paid by transgenders.
Hypocrite much?
CreekDog
(46,192 posts)This is pure disruption.
Autumn
(44,761 posts)We could cut the bloated military budget to fill "there" tummys. Maybe then they will run out of money to persecute soldiers who reveal fucking war crimes. I fucking object to my tax dollars going to a lot of things. Helping a human being is not not one of them.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)I don't support or appreciate singling out Manning like this.