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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFor transgender prisoners, hormones seen as matter of life and death
Self-castration, suicide and waves of desperation are byproducts of the denial of sex hormones to inmates yearning to switch genders, advocates say.
But outside the walls, debate has been stirred on whether the prison system is the right place to help chemically escort a man to womanhood, or vice versa, and critics question if any taxpayer money should pay for the hormones used to help inmates undergo sex changes.
Thursday's revelation that convicted secret leaker Bradley Manning wants to live as a woman and begin hormone therapy ignited talk about what happens when prison doctors refuse hormones to inmates with gender identity disorder (GID): depression, death wishes, purposely amputated genitalia and, for those already en route to a new gender, the return or disappearance of certain male or female traits from body hair to muscles to breasts.
The Army does not provide hormone therapy to such prisoners. At the very least, this significantly delays Manning's plan to physically morph into "Chelsea" -- as he's been sentenced to 35 years in Fort Leavenworth prison.
<snip>
http://www.nbcnews.com/health/transgender-prisoners-hormones-seen-matter-life-death-6C10981031
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Can we start a fund raiser at least for her?? I know we can do it!! Perheps we could expand it to others who are imprisoned and need this kind of financial help!!!
Lets do it!!
cali
(114,904 posts)she wouldn't be able to access funds for hormone treatment.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)She is defenetly a female inside. No one could expect anyone to live 35 fucking years in the wrong body!
Lets try to do it! Maybe we could have legal help involved and make this happen!! Why couldbt we???
cali
(114,904 posts)hormone therapy for her. Perhaps she could access it for legal purposes. I honestly don't know.
MillennialDem
(2,367 posts)I don't see why she could not be given hormones if she or others willingly paid for them.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)How do we get hold of her attorney?
I am serious about this, I will dedicate all I can for this to happen.
She is not alone.
Lets make it happen.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)I would be happy to sign a letter asking Mr Coombs to start such fund or let us know how to contribute. I'd appreciate if someone with better skills than mine writes a letter, and also asks that fund should accept donations from abroad.
Response to cali (Original post)
Post removed
cali
(114,904 posts)believe in making prison hell.
that's sick and disgusting in my book.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)Shame on you.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)I never said that, and you are driving away people who support LGBT rights.
You have gone over the edge. You are no longer posting rationally.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)uppityperson is not driving away people who support LGBT rights. By comparing her medical needs to a 50" TV, you are displaying an attitude that is definitely AGAINST LGBT rights. . It sounds like something some right wing asshole would say.
NealK
(1,791 posts)Lol, you're projecting. The vast majority of your posts in that thread are totally irrational. And some of them are truly puke inducing.
demmiblue
(36,751 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)If you don't like the way it is defined, don't come yelling at me!
Military jail time does not support hormone therapy.
It also doesn't support dental implants (you get dentures).
Don't like then law, go change it.
Stop being a whiner on an internet blog!
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Hormonal treatment and gender reassignment surgery ARE basic necessary medical treatments.
Response to idwiyo (Reply #15)
Post removed
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)Or a new hair dryer. Or a pair of slippers.
Care to explain your comment?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)with personal attacks.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Sorry, you lose. You don't get to dictate what medical treatment is and what is not.
DO NOT PASS GO, GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL... oh wait. Manning goes to jail.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)getting 50' TV, or a new hair dryer, or a pair of sleepers.
You might want to educate yourself a bit while you are trying to explain your comment (bolding is mine):
World Health Organisation
Genomic resource centre
Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
The biological differences between men and women result from two processes: sex determination and differentiation.(3) The biological process of sex determination controls whether the male or female sexual differentiation pathway will be followed. The process of biological sex differentiation (development of a given sex) involves many genetically regulated, hierarchical developmental steps. More than 95% of the Y chromosome is male-specific (4) and a single copy of the Y chromosome is able to induce testicular differentiation of the embryonic gonad. The Y chromosome acts as a dominant inducer of male phenotype and individuals having four X chromosomes and one Y chromosome (49XXXXY) are phenotypically male. (5) When a Y chromosome is present, early embryonic testes develop around the 10th week of pregnancy. In the absence of both a Y chromosome and the influence of a testis-determining factor (TDF), ovaries develop.
Gender, typically described in terms of masculinity and femininity, is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time. (6) There are a number of cultures, for example, in which greater gender diversity exists and sex and gender are not always neatly divided along binary lines such as male and female or homosexual and heterosexual.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)BUT SHE WON'T, because that is the law!
Do you see the difference?
And the LAW STATES you can't have a 50" TV or fuzzy rabbit slippers too.
What are you a lawaphobic?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Stand up for transphoby, hypocrisy, but not for what is right.
Karma may have mercy on you.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)There are so many things that needs to be fixed in this world.. the plight of Manning is NOT on my list.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)is very odd indeed.
It might have been worded as 'Army thinks that hormonal treatment is no different than 50' TV, according to current law'. It wasn't. It was worded as your personal opinion. Reinforced by further statement that prison suppose to be 'hell'.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Gender dysphoria is just as much a medical condition as diabetes or anxiety. Just because you don't seem to know shit about medical conditions doesn't make it less so.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Go ahead, blame ME because Manning was convicted. Do you feel better now?
I am way left of Obama... but you consistently are so far left I need binoculars to see where you stand.
I am REALLY GLAD that a majority of Americans don't have your point of view.... DEARIE!
cali
(114,904 posts)disgusting comments in this thread.
simple as that.
as far as being left or right, I don't buy my ideas or philosophies wholesale.
One thing I believe is that even the most heinous criminals, incarcerated for life, should be treated with a basic degree of human dignity- as much or more so for ourselves and our society as for anything else.
I may be far left or whatever, but I'll gladly take that over what you are: An INhumanist. Ugh.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)I have to cut my toe nails today.... and in 3 billion years the Milky Way is going to crash into Andromeda, and our galaxy will cease to exist. In between those two items there will be millions of things to discover, learn and experience.
But nothing you post is on my list of "need to know"
You constantly berate DUer who don't agree with you. I wonder if you actually have any friends -- in the "real world". You know.. actual people who you have conversations with.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Try again, dear! How pathetic that you have to resort to personal attacks!!
Laughable!!
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)OMG!
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Dear!
You lose.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Both of you should go make plans to visit Manning during visitation hours...
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Any DUer who even remotely reads the forums knows cali has been always telling the truth. Try again, Dear!!
Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Juror #3 nailed you:
LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
LEAVE IT ALONE and said: The alert is against ToS.. not calling other members 'trolls'. That being said, exposing cliques is not hurtful, rude, insensitive or over-the-top. It may be disruptive to the puppy-packs that rush to defend members of their clique. It would be better if they examine the posts and reply to the substance, rather than a perceived attack on their circle.
TLDR; Ignore the question or answer it.
LEAVE IT ALONE and said: I loved DTOM's "Milky Way" post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post
LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
HIDE IT and said: I don't see toll. I see disagreement veered too far into the persona realm
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)And Kolesar.. there are other people who read this, besides myself and cali.
cali
(114,904 posts)comparisons are indeed often odious and even more often they're dim.
and yes, I have actual conversations with my real world friends- largely, I confess, we agree on these kinds of issues.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)And you seem to have more posts here on DU than anyone - usually just blue link stuff, so I just wonder if you have any actual time in your life to actually meet "real" people.
Maybe you need to step away from the keyboard and go outside.
cali
(114,904 posts)as a result of smashing my leg to pieces almost 2 years ago. I'm in constant pain, often quite severe. That's just the nature of it. Yes, my social life has suffered. I'm supposed to go to a party on Sunday, but it's either extra opiates or don't go.
Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS), formerly Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD) or Causalgia, Reflex Neurovascular Dystrophy (RND) also known as Amplified Musculoskeletal Pain Syndrome (AMPS) is a chronic systemic disease characterized by severe pain, swelling, and changes in the skin. CRPS is expected to worsen over time.[1] It often initially affects an arm or a leg and often spreads throughout the body
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_Regional_Pain_Syndrome
Oh, and quite often I sit outside with my laptop.
Now you know.
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Are you mad she told of on Bush and his ilk???
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)"He betrayed the United States, and for that betrayal, he deserves to spend the majority of his remaining life in confinement," Capt. Joe Morrow had said during the sentencing hearing.
So many here on DU supporting criminals.. very odd.
cali
(114,904 posts)There were exactly NO fucking findings that he was a traitor- and the judge meted out a sentence much closer to what the defense was asking than what the prosecution asked for. duh. try again.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)What reality are you living in? Do you just ignore the facts?
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Maybe that was cool about 50,000 posts ago... but we are over that phrase now.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Here are some of the documents and revelations Manning leaked to the world from the small, sensitive, compartmented information facility in Iraq where he worked as an intelligence analyst from 2009 to 2010.
1. The 'Collateral Murder' Apache helicopter video
Manning released this graphic video of a U.S. Apache helicopter attack on a group of people gathered in Baghdad. Two were employees of the Reuters news agency. A member of the helicopter crew refers to the "dead bastards" he killed, and the crew lights up a passing van that stopped to help victims of the first round of gunfire.
Reuters unsuccessfully requested a copy of the video under the Freedom of Information Act, but only Manning revealed it to the world. An Army investigation into the attack, released only after Manning's leak was published, concluded that the helicopter crew had followed the rules of engagement.
......
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3788126
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)You can't pick and choose which crimes he was convicted are morally justified.
What is going on here on DU... people are just making shit up and ignoring facts.
Manning's leaks -- 391,832 battlefield reports from Iraq, 75,000 reports from Afghanistan, and 251,287 State Department Cables
WTF!
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Lololol how convenient!!
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)Is there some imaginary jail that Manning might be going to?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)She doesnt belong in there. The war criminals should be there, not Chelsea.
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)The courts have decided.. that they don't care that you think she doesn't belong there.
But you can dedicate the rest of your like to get her released. That is, if it is that important to you.
Not that important for me.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Kolesar
(31,182 posts)Is that what you are insinuating?
morningfog
(18,115 posts)She would still be in jail, even if she had carefully screened and released only the illegal acts. Which by the way, would still number in the hundreds.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The militry doesn't fund, no allow, gender reassignment surgery for servicembers who are not inmates. Expecting them to for one who is is an inmate is, well, pretty much a fools folly.
They won't allow the system to get bent to where you won't qualify for something if you follow the rules but will if you break the rules.
michigandem58
(1,044 posts)Chelsea feels the need to do this right after being handed a 35 year prison term?
Response to michigandem58 (Reply #39)
Post removed
idwiyo
(5,113 posts)How did you manage to miss that Chelsea knew she is transgender female long before the trial?
FYI:
World Health Organisation
Genomic resource centre
Gender and Genetics
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
The biological differences between men and women result from two processes: sex determination and differentiation.(3) The biological process of sex determination controls whether the male or female sexual differentiation pathway will be followed. The process of biological sex differentiation (development of a given sex) involves many genetically regulated, hierarchical developmental steps. More than 95% of the Y chromosome is male-specific (4) and a single copy of the Y chromosome is able to induce testicular differentiation of the embryonic gonad. The Y chromosome acts as a dominant inducer of male phenotype and individuals having four X chromosomes and one Y chromosome (49XXXXY) are phenotypically male. (5) When a Y chromosome is present, early embryonic testes develop around the 10th week of pregnancy. In the absence of both a Y chromosome and the influence of a testis-determining factor (TDF), ovaries develop.
Gender, typically described in terms of masculinity and femininity, is a social construction that varies across different cultures and over time. (6) There are a number of cultures, for example, in which greater gender diversity exists and sex and gender are not always neatly divided along binary lines such as male and female or homosexual and heterosexual.
Much more at the link.
maddezmom
(135,060 posts)darkangel218
(13,985 posts)She has been transgendered before the trial!! Did you miss the evidence her attorneys presented to the court?????
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)And so it is difficult to keep up with current events, plus the usual transphobic bullshit, so cut our new friend some slack.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)You honestly think that? Why? Because transgender people have such a wonderful time in prison...NOT!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Your transphobia is showing.
undergroundpanther
(11,925 posts)If I still had a female body,I'd be dead.I have had top surgery, had the female organs removed(and they had caused actual DAMAGE to my abdomen with crazy endrometriosis),and I take testosterone patches.
Each step has helped me"live" in my body.
Before transition my PMS was so bad I ended up in psych wards from freaking out or trying to die.
My body was literally at war with itself, it was not"all in my head".I was exposed to testosterone as a fetus before my mom realized she was pregnant. my sister had stopped breastfeeding and she was trying to dry up breast milk,and she had female trouble that led to emergency hysterectomy surgery,and so has my sister,they are not transgender.
Being transgender IS now determined a MEDICAL issue.
And it is.
If I take any female hormones again I would start growing screwed up uterine tissue in my abdomen.And my moods would make everything I already deal with worse. Non-trans people have difficulty imagining the torture being the wrong gender IS.Religious people who are trans-phobic are scared of their god to the point they want to control what OTHERS even those who are non-believers or different religions do.I am a mal-theist.I don't believe any holy book written thousands of years ago has any business telling others how to live,NOW.And these books are filled with vileness ,and religious people pretend that vileness does not effect them..
Chelsea I hope you do not die before you exist.And don't let the military religious and control freak bigoted ignorant assholes,macheesemo kill you..
DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)If not.. then why are you posting a personal story that has nothing to do with prisoner rights.
undergroundpanther
(11,925 posts)with a medical issue some people like the stupid military shitheads who hold her prisoner refuse to help her with.Even though she's a prisoner now, she has a RIGHT to medical treatment,even if the military ,religious control freaks and transphobics believe does not exist.
I suffered many years trying to get help and I can tell you she needs help.Being caged up and untreated will only torture her more.
uppityperson
(115,674 posts)personal attack.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)idwiyo
(5,113 posts)other people.
Hugs
Recursion
(56,582 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I see that the enemies of progressive values have been busy.
I love Ignore.
(to be fair, as Ignore also ignores replies to the douchebags, half of the disappeared posts are likely people telling the bigots off.)
Neoma
(10,039 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)And the multiple sub threads of that person's complete lack of empathy and understanding.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)it is rare for people that are on hormonal therapy to be allowed to continue when they are incarcerated. And since he wants to start the treament after he has been incarcerated it is unlikely he will get it until he until released...even if he was in a civilian prison...which he will eventually be if he serves enough time as most long term military prisoners are transferred to civilian federal facilities.
cali
(114,904 posts)in any case, that doesn't mean there shouldn't be advocacy for change.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)Prior to incarceration. Allowing peolle to start hormone therapy after incarceration might backfire..I don't think it is a good idea. I am supportive but am not on board with the government providing it for free.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)1. Chances are good they're gonna be harassed and/or raped whether they're on hormones or not.
2. It's the prison's duty to protect vulnerable prisoners from harassment and assaults. There are enough transgender prisoners in America's prison systems to justify putting stiff measures in place to prevent rapes & such.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)And that is what the classification process is for. That has nothing to do with hormones or surgery
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)But the Percy Wetmore types that always seem to end up as prison guards delight in screening vulnerable prisoners as "violent" and violent prisoners as "vulnerable." They love putting the transgender prisoners in cells with known "Booty Bandits."
Prison rape and shankings are part of the fun for them.
Niceguy1
(2,467 posts)The exception not the rule amd manning is a high profile prisoner...he should have few problems once he gets to his assigned facility
freeplessinseattle
(3,508 posts)"it is rare for people that are on hormonal therapy to be allowed to continue when they are incarcerated."
At least it seems you are open to digesting new information, and concepts. Better than many here, sadly enough.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)One of their crimes against humanity...
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)I see the bigot demographic here at DU is advocating for depriving prisoners of medical care.
Real fucking progressive. Why does Skinner allow them here?
Neoma
(10,039 posts)The people who are simply clueless and the trolls.
Little Star
(17,055 posts)Neoma
(10,039 posts)On top of that, they have children to raise. Pleasing everyone is impossible, I know that for sure. Though that's the kind of thing you have to do if you're in the front lines. After awhile it completely depletes your energy. Thankfully they have the, "how many posts of theirs was hidden?" Tool for them to use.
Remember how long it took for iverglas to be PPR'd? That'll happen this time around too.