General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums---so what you are saying, is we would be BETTER OFF --- NOT KNOWING THESE THINGS?:
reposting hat tip: JDPriestlyBelow is a list of 10 revelations disclosed by Mannings leaked documents that offer insight into the breadth and scope of what he revealed, help explain his motivation for leaking, and provide context for the ongoing trial. The list, in no particular order, is far from comprehensive but encompasses some of the most significant information brought to light by the leaked documents.
There were 109,032 violent deaths recorded in Iraq between 2004 and 2009, including 66,081 civilians. Leaked records from the Afghan War separately revealed coalition troops alleged role in killing at least 195 civilians in unreported incidents, one reportedly involving U.S. service members machine-gunning a bus, wounding or killing 15 passengers.
The U.S. Embassy in Paris advised Washington to start a military-style trade war against any European Union country that opposed genetically modified crops, with U.S. diplomats effectively working directly for GM companies such as Monsanto.
British and American officials colluded in a plan to mislead the British Parliament over a proposed ban on cluster bombs.
In Baghdad in 2007, a U.S. Army helicopter gunned down a group of civilians, including two Reuters news staff.
U.S. special operations forces were conducting offensive operations inside Pakistan despite sustained public denials and statements to the contrary by U.S. officials.
A leaked diplomatic cable provided evidence that during an incident in 2006, U.S. troops in Iraq executed at least 10 Iraqi civilians, including a woman in her 70s and a 5-month-old, then called in an airstrike to destroy the evidence. The disclosure of this cable was later a significant factor in the Iraqi governments refusal to grant U.S. troops immunity from prosecution beyond 2011, which led to U.S. troops withdrawing from the country.
A NATO coalition in Afghanistan was using an undisclosed black unit of special operations forces to hunt down targets for death or detention without trial. The unit was revealed to have had a kill-or-capture list featuring details of more than 2,000 senior figures from the Taliban and al-Qaida, but it had in some cases mistakenly killed men, women, children, and Afghan police officers.
The U.S. threatened the Italian government in an attempt to influence a court case involving the indictment of CIA agents over the kidnapping of an Egyptian cleric. Separately, U.S. officials were revealed to have pressured Spanish prosecutors to dissuade them from investigating U.S. torture allegations, secret extraordinary rendition flights, and the killing of a Spanish journalist by U.S. troops in Iraq.
In apparent violation of a 1946 U.N. convention, Washington initiated a spying campaign in 2009 that targeted the leadership of the U.N. by seeking to gather top officials private encryption keys, credit card details, and biometric data.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/06/04/bradley_manning_trial_10_revelations_from_wikileaks_documents_on_iraq_afghanistan.html
adding these as well (for those who don't think the above is enough):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3518698
http://www.thenation.com/blog/175879/too-often-forgotten-amazingly-long-list-what-we-know-thanks-private-manning#axzz2coqF27hD
mike_c
(36,281 posts)progressoid
(49,990 posts)'Murica is the greatest country ever made by God and anybody that does anything to bring her down is doing the work Satan and deserves to burn in everlasting hell because USA USA USA USA USA!
kpete
(71,991 posts)thank you for posting that
you have pre-posted for the flamers
they can just STAY AWAY
I am so tired of my posts becoming "rants of rudeness"
Today, I made the mistake of checking back on some of my posts...
I kind of KNEW I would be sorry.
peace, kp-
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)progressoid
(49,990 posts)Haven't heard that one in a while
Government oversight is wrong, especially when it not only exposes Republican politicians, but can expose Democratic politicians right along with them. Even worse, when it could threaten the livelihood of contractors, defense and otherwise, that could harm campaign donations for Democratic politicians and, tangentially, Republican politicians.
Therefore, oversight is bad. Any action that provokes oversight, is bad.
That's the argument I'm seeing.
LearningCurve
(488 posts)For the record, I think you nailed it.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)Rahmbo summed it us nicely with, "sit down and shut up."
Aerows
(39,961 posts)Sit down and ST*F*U. Because he's that crude.
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)After the initial release of the Pentagon Papers, Nixon was giddy. He wanted more information released because it would make Kennedy and Johnson look bad. When it wasn't coming out fast enough, he charged Charles Colson to leak more.
The papers records stopped in 1968. But, when Nixon found out that Ellsberg had the goods on him too, from the time he was working for Kissinger directly, that's when the shit hit the fan.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Recursion
(56,582 posts)Please elaborate.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)I'm still waiting for an explanation since the Gov't admits not one person was killed by Manning's documents.
don't hold your breath. The 'fly-by' sanctimony runs deep in those who are virulently negative about Manning, Snowden, or any other 'leaker' of our precious secrets.
I expected nothing, and got what I expected. Particularly since that poster elaborated on their career aspirations in another post.
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)source?
gotta run to work now
backson
MisterP
(23,730 posts)99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Ocelot
(227 posts)Despite what he thinks. And in this matter I believe that he is being rather immature and naive. I don't want a POTUS who tells me to "eat my peas", I want one who treats those who voted for him like adults who are capable of making up their own minds.
kath
(10,565 posts)Pure unadulterated bliss.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)It clearly is the most important issue we have before us today.
But only one thing was enough for me...the video of the chopper mowing down those journalist...that did it for me...that alone was enough to convince me that Manning was a whistle blower, and a decent person to risk it all to expose this evil.
That one clip was so powerful to me because I was in the field of aviation when I was in the service in the 60s and noticed a great change that is shocking to me...and that is in the attitude of the airmen...That pilot and crew WANTED to kill someone that day...were happy when they did.
That reveled a fundamental corruption that is shocking to me...and we would be better off if we know the truth of it.
kpete
(71,991 posts)and I am going to be 62 this year
I would love to be posting better news...
thanks for your comments,
and peace (i never give up)
kp
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)engage the enemy. But the people on the ground didn't even know the chopper was there, that's not engaging anyone, that's sniping. But the worst part for me was when the clean up crew ran over a body. They chopper people thought it was funny.
RC
(25,592 posts)It was obvious the people in the van were trying to help a wounded man and get him to some help. There could be no doubt what either side was doing. One was trying to save a man and the other to raise the kill number using defenseless, unarmed civilians.
The entire helicopter crew should have been dishonorably discharged and sentenced to many long years in a federal prison. Appropriate discipline should have been applied to the people supervising them.
tblue
(16,350 posts)I saw the video that everyone sawof the joyful target-shooting of people on the ground. I didn't know about the one of journalists being shot. Is that the same or a different video? I think I need to throw up. Ugh.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)They were journalist.
xocet
(3,871 posts)when the helicopter declared the area clear for firing and put a missile into the building right next to the him (within probably 20 feet). There seemed to be no sign of the guy after the explosion.
Even if everything else in the video could somehow be justified - I fail to see how obliterating a guy who just happens to be walking next to a target is not murder, plain and simple.
I never hear of anyone mentioning this guy's likely death as a crime.
Did you ever watch the full version of Collateral Murder?
zeemike
(18,998 posts)And what it boils down to is that we have trained our military to be murderers and to like it.
It should be a scandal and we should feel some sense of national shame, but many of us don't because we have been conditioned just as the military has been to accept it.
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Scared and living with their eyes wide-shut. So you have to forgive them, for they know not what they do. Seriously.
- Like Winston Smith, the struggle for them is finished. They love Big Brother.
But it'll get better.....
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.
I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. ~V for Vendetta
K&R
AnneD
(15,774 posts)my favorite movie and my favorite quote from that movie.
Be the change you want to see in the world. Gandhi
For those here having trouble,
the above is what the TRUTH looks like.
You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]
-p
pnwmom
(108,977 posts)information that we were better off knowing?
progressoid
(49,990 posts)I just read on another thread that we ('muricans) have to give up a little privacy.
So I guess the government should have to give up a little privacy too.
TiberiusB
(487 posts)This is one of those little exaggerations that refuses to die and clearly only serves to try and make Manning look irresponsible and dangerous.
Manning released the cables to Wikileaks, not the entire world, and that was after going to the NYT and WaPo. Wikileaks then released selected information to certain media outlets a little at a time. It was only after the U.S. government started shutting down Wikileaks funding that anything approaching "indiscriminate" releases of information occurred. Assange feared he wouldn't be able to muster the resources to sort through the remaining documents or get them released. Unless I am mistaken, all of the cables were never released. Far from it, in fact, because, if you recall, Daniel Domscheit Berg bailed on Assange and trashed a ton of documents when he left.
Second, can anyone insisting that somehow Manning is bad, because, you know, reasons, point to any information released that has legitimately harmed U.S. interests? No?
So if we tally up the "good" leaks against the "bad" leaks, we get something like eighty bajillion to none.
And in some minds this means "none" wins.
*Sigh*
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I could just shit.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)than they do about whether there is an R or D after a persons name.
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Thanks for the summary.
merrily
(45,251 posts)difference?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)The actual number of fatalities was most likely ten times that, at least. When this figure came out in 2009 it struck me that Wikileaks was probably a limited hangout run by Bush-friendly operatives and nothing that's happened since has caused me to think otherwise.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)xocet
(3,871 posts)Your restraint is admirable.
kelliekat44
(7,759 posts)member of my family, actually making me feel worse. So what is better? Seems to have helped ruin DU as a civil discussion board, especially on the topics of Manning, Snowden, NSA. Can't really do anything about what I know except to blow off steam especially since if the government says things are being corrected....how will we know? Turned a lot of my fellow countrymen and women into exposing their hate for Obama without control...showed a lot folks I thought highly of as closet bigots...so what exactly is the benefit? I am not going to vote Republican and I am not NOT going to vote for the Dem candidates. All of it has damaged the reputation and cooperation the US with its allies and enemies more than US warmongering. I don't feel safer. I don't feel more afraid of my government. Hasn't stopped and won't stop corporate spying on consumers. Yeah...what have we really gained? The big loser in all of this is a President who is trying to deal with many, many complex foreign and domestic issues that actually really affect the lives of people. And actually has made the President seem an enemy of the LBGT community when, in fact, he has been their best ally in office. It is all so sad. And the constant focus on the subject is becoming almost irrational. Of course, this is my opinion. But you seemed to ask for it in your OP.
SwampG8r
(10,287 posts)speculating not even as far as what we know now to be true would have been labeled "woo" or "conspiracy theory"
the espousal of which were and I think still are bannable offences
and we only know the tiniest little sliver
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)When that's understood, everything else falls into place.
KG
(28,751 posts)NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)myrna minx
(22,772 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)And now for this one 'by personal request." This IS so important.
And there is nothing to be done about folks like NM Birder over in the other thread..
Waving for the USA as I wish it COULD be.....
Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)MotherPetrie
(3,145 posts)madinmaryland
(64,933 posts)Will Pitt and Scott Ritter .
dawg
(10,624 posts)Why are so many people not willing to trust the leaders *they* worked for and elected?
treestar
(82,383 posts)the other countries and their operatives knowing.
Again we have this idea that the US has no right to do what other countries do routinely. If we have no right to classified information other countries do. What do you think will happen?