I was wrong about DU...
I thought it was a microcosm of the larger Party. Even though there were occasionally some posts that were obviously out of the mainstream of the Party, it was mostly anecdotal, I thought.
But when I look at the threads in GD, I see nothing that even resembles where the Democratic Party is today. It is much more liberal and much more tolerant than the mainstream of the Party will ever be.
Ideally, it may be where we want the Party to be but it is not where the Party is today.
I was wrong to believe that DU was a reflection of the Democratic Party. It never was and it probably never will be...? Compared to the national Party, it is like night and day.
However, we have helped to change the Party before. Perhaps we can do it again? But I have no illusions that we are anywhere close to being in step with the national Party.
= new reply since forum marked as read
head? 
A site where Dennis Kucinich routinely won presidential preference polls cannot even remotely be considered mainstream, that's where the "Underground" part comes from. 
False narrative to begin with, but I understand you like to stir it up, routinely. DU does not, and never did represent Democratic thought, or the direction of the Democratic Party. 
Democrats post here. Republicans post here, you Better Believe It! And Lord knows Libertarian Republicans post here.
"Take a look on Democratic Underground
They have the gov't paid trolls out, trying to limit the outrage & rebellion on there.
If that is the reaction of hard core Dems to the news stories on the NSA, I want to stoke up some more of it.
Lots of traffic on DU.
It's the most popular Dem internet site, except for Huffy Po - where everything meaningful gets censored."
http://www.dailypaul.com/288556/clapper-and-feinstein-get-caught-lying-big-time#comment-3103138
So DU is a hodge podge of folks who have absolutely no allegiance to the Democratic Party, and always has been. But then you knew that already, didn't ya? Like I said, you like to stir it up.
Do I like to stir it up??
Yeah, I guess I do. Especially when it needs stirring. 
That's jingoism to beat all jingoism promoted by Reagan and W.
Congrats to the DUers who push back against that onslaught from the extreme right.
It's fricken (that's a more profane way of saying "fucking" outrageous that the defense of Obama has been so reduced that it is, in effect, being represented as a defense of the very worst of the "tea-party" way of thinking of the world.
& physical therapy. When I returned, due to inactivity, I lost all my old bookmarks and my start date. So, I've been here almost from the beginning as well. I'll bet you feel like a cheap suit right about now.
Oh my. That's a lovely slander.
I'll put it on the rack with "Professional Leftist", "Emo-prog" and "Elitist". I'm sure it will hang just fine among those other articles of clothing I'm ashamed to be seen in none of them, but I would be ashamed to be wearing an expensive suit that called Latin America "A cyst on the ass of the world."
In fact, Mr. Tarheel_Dem, I would rather wear a cheap suit than yell out cheap shots and cheap bigotry. My clothes do not make the woman. The woman in them is the woman. I hope one day you can say the same.
and I wanted to correct the record. Even though the gobbledey gook you just typed out isn't an acknowledgement that you spoke of things you had absolutely no knowledge of, I'll accept your latest admonishment as a badge of honor.
You spoke out of turn, although I fail to see what difference it makes if I signed up in 2001 or 2004, and you still can't admit that you were wrong. I guess our perceptions of each other will remain as they are. You've posted your assessment, and just so this exchange doesn't devolve any further, I'll leave it at that.
from Democrats, in the real world. You do see the difference, right? If not, I can try to explain it on a more basic level?
Your county, notwithstanding, what was Kooch's total vote count for that primary? I think you got my original point, but this is your attempt to obscure it?
"proof". Still waiting for a link that poll to back up your assertion that Kooch is hugely popular in Europe. It's been over two years now, and not a single link.
having this discussion. Since then, I take anything she says with a HUGE grain of salt.
Go figure. Now, what was all that about "considering sources" and stuff? 
with their bullshit. But it bugged me to see that false info lay out there on DU. 
So thank you for doing it, I appreciate it and I'm sure other Democrats do also.
And
for all the information you tirelessly offer the community, Sabrina. Many, many of us deeply appreciate what you do for us.Coming from you that means a lot! And I want to return the compliment!
No matter what she says now, her contention two years ago, was that Kooch was "hugely popular" in Europe. When I continued to ask her for proof she didn't offer anything in the way of confirmation, not even the anecdotal crap you just dug up. So thanks for trying, but no dice.
Because it didn't, and you know it. The only way to quantify your assertion then & now is to present the scientific proof I kept requesting from you. You couldn't back it up, and if you think an article about him receiving a spirited round of applause is equal to quantifiable dispositive proof of something you made up, then you're sorely mistaken. But like I said, nice try.
You just proved Sabrina's point.
even if it doesn't make a lick of it anywhere else.
do anything significant to change the dialogue of this country from austerity to wealth disparity...
the "grassroots," engaged activist component of the party. This group, truly amateurs in the best sense of the word, are driven by the humane ideals they carry. They are to be contrasted with the pros--the Party Hacks & politicians who make a living based on election-driven events.
For example, I look at my own county party members, most of whom I know pretty well, and they are almost universally more liberal than the professionals.
The difference, I guess, is that the prime imperative for the pros is to win elections, and to do that they need big money, for which they have to sell out their values (assuming they had any in the first place), while the goals of the "amateurs" is to strive toward their idea of a better world.
I have been pissed off at the so-called leaders of my state party for a long time. They, who foot-dragged on the Walker petition & impeachment efforts. They, who are not above a little side-income "consulting to" corporations with political agendas. Most of the people I know, who fall into the "amateur" club, are similarly pissed. We fought for Obama, we fought for change, we got him re-elected, and we got stiffed.
I'm not talking about the ACA, or about all the things he couldn't get through Congress due to Republican obstructionism. I'm talking about the things the head of the Executive Branch can do on his own. He didn't have to go after Manning & Snowden as he did. He didn't have to avoid prosecuting the banksters whose greed created the current economic mess. He didn't have to allow DOJ to pursue medical marijuana users with SWAT teams. He didn't have to push the TPP. He didn't have to keep picking up the Chained CPI, dusting it off & putting back on the table every time the Republicans kicked the table over in one of their tantrums.
The Pros are mostly all OK with those things, while we ungrateful urchins and purist pursuers of painted ponies are damned upset by all this.
I do not mean to suggest that Obama has done NO good, because that is patently false. For all its faults, the ACA is helping people who would otherwise be without health care. There have been advances in LGBT issues, and the minimum wage was raised for the first time in years.
People criticized OWS because it had no leaders. Well, with no head to decapitate, leaderless organizations are much harder to kill. OWS had no specific causes ("Save the Skeet!" Of course not. their specific cause was a sort of meta-cause. The object of this cause was ALL OF IT.
{{For the benefits of leaderless organizations, see The Starfish and the Spider, described at the following Amazon link}}
http://www.amazon.com/Starfish-Spider-Unstoppable-Leaderless-Organizations/dp/1591841836/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1377364763&sr=1-1&keywords=starfish+spider
This is species-survival territory we're treading on. Tinkering around the edges is not going to work. We have to very quickly and very massively prepare to change ALL OF IT.
Bloody revolutions do not work. They are not only more prone to fail than nonviolent campaigns, but in those cases where they succeed, the militarily supported leader ends up becoming dictator.
{{See the following Amazon link for documentation}}
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=erika%20chenoweth
OWS in its many mutations is maybe the key tool for effecting peaceful social transformations. I see the key to the power of OWS as deriving from its capacity to evolve rapidly as situations demand. To do this, they need to keep in strong contact with reality, which in the Internet age means being able to extract new meanings from the sea of information. The new meanings uniformly point to one thing: The one thing that most needs to change is ALL OF IT.
DU doesn't reflect anything close to the modern Democratic party. Hell kentuck, to be honest I'm not sure what DU represents at all. There are many liberals, quite a few center folk, and some Authoritarians here now.
When I first came, half the posts that I see now would have gotten the poster a tombstone. Times change I guess. If DU itself can't be solid left, how could the party as a whole. Truth is, the Democratic Party for the most part... does not support us nor our core beliefs. Maybe that was always true to some extent, but these days its obvious. In the end, it doesn't matter because the politicians know that we have no real alternative and will vote for them in droves no matter what they do, because the alternative is usually a horror story waiting to happen. There's little chance people in the party let alone people on DU would ever make a stand due to what the short term outcome would look like.
Never the less... I will because I won't take it anymore. I mean... whats the movie saying... if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.
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